Brandon Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm not sure which element you're talking about (apologies), do you mean the Snow spoiler will change or they won't reveal his lineage? If it's Snow's spoiler, I guess they could change that (since I don't believe he's dead for even a second in the books, despite how the last one ended) but I wouldn't if I were running the show. It's such a great way to end a season (and I expect it to be this season's finale) because it would give Martin another year essentially to finish the next book and be the one to reveal Snow's fate rather than the show spoiling it. Hopefully, I can get this damned spoiler tag to work... I'm referring to Jon getting Caesared. I'm not sure the show will actually take it that far, because like you, I fully expect him to be revived. But that may present believability and credibility problems as translated on TV; the dreaded jump the shark moment. I think it may be why, for instance, we haven't seen zombieCat/Lady Stoneheart. Then again, as part of the blood sacrifice to hatch the dragons, they showed how Drogo was sort-of revived. But given that he was a vegetable, that's not quite the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hopefully, I can get this damned spoiler tag to work... I'm referring to Jon getting Caesared. I'm not sure the show will actually take it that far, because like you, I fully expect him to be revived. But that may present believability and credibility problems as translated on TV; the dreaded jump the shark moment. I think it may be why, for instance, we haven't seen zombieCat/Lady Stoneheart. Then again, as part of the blood sacrifice to hatch the dragons, they showed how Drogo was sort-of revived. But given that he was a vegetable, that's not quite the same. On the other hand: We've seen the first hint that The Mountain will be making his undead return thanks to Qyburn, so perhaps they're greasing the shoots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 On the other hand: We've seen the first hint that The Mountain will be making his undead return thanks to Qyburn, so perhaps they're greasing the shoots? Good point. I'd forgotten about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm not sure which element you're talking about (apologies), do you mean the Snow spoiler will change or they won't reveal his lineage? If it's Snow's spoiler, I guess they could change that (since I don't believe he's dead for even a second in the books, despite how the last one ended) but I wouldn't if I were running the show. It's such a great way to end a season (and I expect it to be this season's finale) because it would give Martin another year essentially to finish the next book and be the one to reveal Snow's fate rather than the show spoiling it. But I'm completely speculating. It would be tough for me to exclude that beat in the story because it was so powerful and the pieces for the assassination are already being put into motion at Castle Black on the show (unless I'm reading into things way too much, which is entirely possible). It would be a big twist if it turns out not to be true, but I'm with Chan. At least in the book world, she's dead dead. They gotta ice him, IMO. Too big of a plot point to skip. I liked a lot of the things the show did in terms of meshing story lines, or skipping over some of the things that wouldn't work on TV (I think George wrote 10 chapters of Arya getting to Harrenhall, and there were 50 characters involved, just not possible for TV). But they can't skip it. It's not like Qarth where it was a boring, onetime setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) So this is the reader's thread, do we really need to use spoiler tags? Makes for some difficult discussion. I'll do it this time, but... With regard to Jon's fate, the one thing we don't know yet is: If he survives the murder attempt. Of course, I think we all agree that he will. But how? In the books, GRRM seems to make it clear that Jon will probably warg into Ghost right before he dies, and survive inside him until the Red Lady revives him and he returns to his body. The reason for the above is the Prologue to Book 5, which shows one of the wildlings doing that himself (except for the return part). Seemed like a strong foreshadowing. The only problem with this is that the TV show hasn't provided any hint the Jon could do this with Ghost, whereas in the book it seemed like a possibility. Edited May 5, 2015 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Missed your equation in your earlier post. but in my defense, not paying full attention to your posts is excusable because you're usually wrong anyway So regarding L Is L dead or in exile, like maybe in Bravos where she will run into her niece or Mereen where she might run Dany hey now!!!!! They need up to 3 Targaryen's to ride the dragons, No? My incorrect guess is that Jon is one of them! L being a Stark and not of Targaryen blood therefore can't ride the dragon my way out there guess... Tyrion knowing dragon language gets to ride the runt! or maybe the Red Priest can revive he who is being rumored and being killed off! Melisandre can't do it and was surprised to see it had been done on Dondarian! I hope I remembered the names right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hopefully, I can get this damned spoiler tag to work... I'm referring to Jon getting Caesared. I'm not sure the show will actually take it that far, because like you, I fully expect him to be revived. But that may present believability and credibility problems as translated on TV; the dreaded jump the shark moment. I think it may be why, for instance, we haven't seen zombieCat/Lady Stoneheart. Then again, as part of the blood sacrifice to hatch the dragons, they showed how Drogo was sort-of revived. But given that he was a vegetable, that's not quite the same. Okay, I'm with you, just wanted to clarify. You have a point, and Rubes brings up a great point as well about some of the set up being missing from the world of the TV show. I do think they have to go through with it though, and ending the season that way would give Martin time to finish Winds of Winter (and be the one to tell us how Snow survives -- though I like Rubes' thinking on it). I think if Martin gets a chance to publish the answer before the show gives it to us it'll be better received. But who knows. They gotta ice him, IMO. Too big of a plot point to skip. I liked a lot of the things the show did in terms of meshing story lines, or skipping over some of the things that wouldn't work on TV (I think George wrote 10 chapters of Arya getting to Harrenhall, and there were 50 characters involved, just not possible for TV). But they can't skip it. It's not like Qarth where it was a boring, onetime setting. Agreed. It's such a powerful cliffhanger it'd be odd for the TV show to omit it. It feels like a natural end to this season, one that will hold us over until next summer. So this is the reader's thread, do we really need to use spoiler tags? Makes for some difficult discussion. I'll do it this time, but... With regard to Jon's fate, the one thing we don't know yet is: If he survives the murder attempt. Of course, I think we all agree that he will. But how? In the books, GRRM seems to make it clear that Jon will probably warg into Ghost right before he dies, and survive inside him until the Red Lady revives him and he returns to his body. The reason for the above is the Prologue to Book 5, which shows one of the wildlings doing that himself (except for the return part). Seemed like a strong foreshadowing. The only problem with this is that the TV show hasn't provided any hint the Jon could do this with Ghost, whereas in the book it seemed like a possibility. That's great stuff. And I'm with you. The lack of Snow's warg ability in the show is something I've missed throughout and would make sense for Snow to use it to survive the attack. I'm not sure how they'll spin it in the show if this turns out to be GRRM's solution in the books, but it should be interesting to see how it unfolds. hey now!!!!! They need up to 3 Targaryen's to ride the dragons, No? My incorrect guess is that Jon is one of them! L being a Stark and not of Targaryen blood therefore can't ride the dragon my way out there guess... Tyrion knowing dragon language gets to ride the runt! or maybe the Red Priest can revive he who is being rumored and being killed off! Melisandre can't do it and was surprised to see it had been done on Dondarian! I hope I remembered the names right Danny has been searching for her three headed dragon, I think it's safe to assume Tyrion will be one as will Snow. The third could be Bran whom the crow promised would one day fly... perhaps as a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Okay, I'm with you, just wanted to clarify. You have a point, and Rubes brings up a great point as well about some of the set up being missing from the world of the TV show. That's great stuff. And I'm with you. The lack of Snow's warg ability in the show is something I've missed throughout and would make sense for Snow to use it to survive the attack. I'm not sure how they'll spin it in the show if this turns out to be GRRM's solution in the books, but it should be interesting to see how it unfolds. Danny has been searching for her three headed dragon, I think it's safe to assume Tyrion will be one as will Snow. The third could be Bran whom the crow promised would one day fly... perhaps as a dragon. I agree with the Bran concept too. Not only the lack of Snow's warg ability but that of Arya's too. the great wolf pack WRT spoilers just in case anyone has not read all of the books I keep the storyline current TV to book Edited May 5, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Okay, I'm with you, just wanted to clarify. You have a point, and Rubes brings up a great point as well about some of the set up being missing from the world of the TV show. I do think they have to go through with it though, and ending the season that way would give Martin time to finish Winds of Winter (and be the one to tell us how Snow survives -- though I like Rubes' thinking on it). I think if Martin gets a chance to publish the answer before the show gives it to us it'll be better received. But who knows. Agreed. It's such a powerful cliffhanger it'd be odd for the TV show to omit it. It feels like a natural end to this season, one that will hold us over until next summer. That's great stuff. And I'm with you. The lack of Snow's warg ability in the show is something I've missed throughout and would make sense for Snow to use it to survive the attack. I'm not sure how they'll spin it in the show if this turns out to be GRRM's solution in the books, but it should be interesting to see how it unfolds. Danny has been searching for her three headed dragon, I think it's safe to assume Tyrion will be one as will Snow. The third could be Bran whom the crow promised would one day fly... perhaps as a dragon. Doesn't she count as one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Doesn't she count as one? Good question... maybe? I don't know. I always assumed she didn't, but maybe she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Good question... maybe? I don't know. I always assumed she didn't, but maybe she does. The original three heads was aegon and his two wives. So I figured it was gonna be her and two others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Danny, Jon and Bran is much better than Danny, Jon and Tryion though having Tyrions dragon eat Ceirce would be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The original three heads was aegon and his two wives. So I figured it was gonna be her and two others. Good call, that (for me) would make Bran way less likely. I think he has an important role to play in the war against the white walkers, maybe he marries Danny after the dust settles -- he's a cripple, she's barren, what could go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Danny, Jon and Bran is much better than Danny, Jon and Tryion though having Tyrions dragon eat Ceirce would be cool That is some seriously kinky stuff, even for HBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 That is some seriously kinky stuff, even for HBO. So they'll air that episode on Cinemax instead. Good call, that (for me) would make Bran way less likely. I think he has an important role to play in the war against the white walkers, maybe he marries Danny after the dust settles -- he's a cripple, she's barren, what could go wrong? Bran, Dani, and Tyrion. Crippled, barren, and a dwarf. Has a nice sort of symmetry to it...the "damaged" people win. But then, Dani and Varys getting married has a nice symmetry as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Danny, Jon and Bran is much better than Danny, Jon and Tryion though having Tyrions dragon eat Ceirce would be cool I hope it's not Bran. That kid just irritates me almost as much as Joffry. Except Joffry was supposed to be an irritating character. Besides, if Bran starts riding a dragon, what use is Hodor? Edited May 6, 2015 by /dev/null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I always assumed it had to be someone of Targaryen blood riding the dragons so not sure how you guys think Bran would fit. If R+L=J than it would make sense to be Danny and Jon as two. For the third my current guess would be Danny's nephew and Rhaegar's son Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I always assumed it had to be someone of Targaryen blood riding the dragons so not sure how you guys think Bran would fit. If R+L=J than it would make sense to be Danny and Jon as two. For the third my current guess would be Danny's nephew and Rhaegar's son Aegon. who has not been introduced in the HBO show. by this time in the books he's been introduced and traveled with Tyrion well before Jorah the bear kidnaps him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 who has not been introduced in the HBO show. by this time in the books he's been introduced and traveled with Tyrion well before Jorah the bear kidnaps him. Right, I guess I thought the discussion was who would be the three heads of the dragon via the books or in general not specifically to the show. This is one of those things that can kind of get muddy for the readers. If they never bother to introduce Aegon in the show then can the reader's assume he has no real bearing on the outcome of the story? My hope is that the show diverges enough where you basically end up with very different resolutions to a lot of things so the readers don't have the story completely spoiled by the end of the show's run which I think we can all assume will be way before the final word of the book series is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I always assumed it had to be someone of Targaryen blood riding the dragons so not sure how you guys think Bran would fit. If it refers to dragonriders at all. It seems logical, but I wonder if its not actually a reference to three competing branches of of House Targaryen. Regardless, I would throw out that Bran's storyline puts him in direct contact with Bloodraven, aka Brynden Rivers, who's father is a Targaryen. Edited May 6, 2015 by Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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