Offensive Line Draft picks are more successful

[thewildrabbit]

OL isn't something you draft in the top 10 unless they are Walter Jones good. The best lines are built mostly of mid-late first rounders and a little later. Lines are a unit. One lineman rarely makes or breaks a team. You draft a gamer changer in the top 10. We need an OT, but not at 9. Trade down or wait.

This type of thinking is what has kept the Bills at or near the bottom of the league for 14+ years IMO. Because its been that long since this franchise had an actual O line that could control the line of scrimmage.

 

But you are right in thinking that one O linemen isn't going to make or break a team, because it is a team sport and that line only succeeds with strong continuity from all five players.

 

Wanna know how many Buffalo Bills O linemen have made the pro bowl the last 20 years? Exactly two, and not at the same time, Ruben Brown an OG who played nine years for the Bills, and LT Jason Peters. That's it!

 

A little speculation...I'm thinking the Bills realized somehow, someway, that their #1 target, Mike Evans, was not going to get by Tampa...I'm unsure if it was during the Williams inquiries, or before them...If it was before, that could be what led them to asking about Williams...Anyway...The Bills decided to protect themselves with Williams and that likely shifts their attention at #9 to an OT...Murph hinted to this point tonight on his show...It's not hard to see the Bills have shifted gears here a bit...Reading between the lines, it's looking like OT in the 1st...

 

I don't think there is any doubt that either Matthews or Lewan will be available at #9...It seems to be a given that Lewan will be there...I'm guessing Matthews is the Bills preference, but they'll settle for Lewan...I'm still not crazy about Lewan off-the-field...I have serious reservations about him, and I'm a Michigan fan...But on the field I have no doubt he will be a significant upgrade from Pears at RT from day #1...And in time Lewan could be very special...He's got all the tools to be a dominant NFL OT for years to come...From the first day he takes the field in the NFL he will be one of the best athletes at the OT position in the entire league...If he can mature and be a good citizen it's a big get for the Bills...

 

But anyway...I'm expecting the pick at #9 to be an OT now...I would not be at all surprised to see them trade down and take Zack Martin either...I know a lot of folks are assuming Martin moves inside...But he's never played OG...He could start off at RT then eventually move inside down the road if that becomes necessary...I would not bet against Martin though...I think he could be a very effective RT in the NFL...He's just a solid player...

Man, I hope you are right with this train of thought.

 

Although, I'd really be very surprised the bills draft an OT with that #9, even if Matthews is still there.

[ektin]

Two words.

 

Mike Williams. (not the receiver)

[machine gun kelly]

I know RT is about the least sexy pick but this kid has immediate impact from day 1 written all over him. He is the perfect storm for what you want from a top 10 pick:

 

-Immediate impact

-Started 46 games in the best conference in the NCAA- SEC

-Experience at RT and LT; can also play interior

-Extremely durable

-Plays with a mean streak

 

 

Improving this offensive line is priority #1 with the addition of Mike Williams. We have all the pieces in place to have a very good offense:

 

WR1: Mike Williams

WR2: Robert Woods

WR3: Stevie Johnson

WR4: Marquise Goodwin

WR5: TJ Graham

 

That is one hell of a WR corp. Stevie will dominate from the slot. We have 2 very good outside WR's with the addition of Williams (potential to be a WR1). Deep threats in Goodwin & Graham

 

Then you have one of the most dynamic playmakers in the league with CJ Spiller. Should return to his 6.0 ypc form with an upgraded line. A OT like Matthews excels getting into the 2nd level & should make our screen game close to unstoppable with Spiller. FJax is FJax. We now have Dixon to get those tough short yardage yards.

 

Upgrading RT is the most important piece left. We need defenses to believe Manuel can get the ball down the field so things open up for Spiller/FJax. Matthews or Lewan can come in from day 1 & do that. There really isn't any other position that could impact the quality of this team like adding a blue-chip RT would do for this offense

 

You make a good case and I agree on most points. You guys have been convincing me to consider wanting an elite RT in the first. I wouldn't doubt Marrone would like it. The only edit is dump Graham. I cannot stand him given how many crucial drops he's had at important parts of the game. Remember the fumble on our 15 yard line in the KC game that it put it away for us. Easley is the best gunner in the NFL so keep him at 5th WR, and possibly we pick up an athletic TE so we carry one more TE than WR on the team. ASJ may be there in the 2nd round.

 

Remember Chandler had the most completions last year. He was even slower than years past as it was his first year after the ACL. He should be better this year, but that 6'7" frame with long arms became EJ's, Thad's, and Tuel's favorite target. Young QB's working on their accuracy love a big guy they can just throw up the ball, and let him get it.

 

Two words.

 

Mike Williams. (not the receiver)

 

I was going to post as well, but I believe in this front office much more than the knuckle heads from a decade ago in mgmt. I'm sure if Whaley picks a RT, he will be good. I just think back to the Cowboys of the 90's, and they won with that line. Those guys dominated in the trenches, and made Aikman and Emmett HOF's. I still believe Kelly and Thurmon were much better. In our glory days, we had a tremendous line.

[Rockinon]

The reasoning makes sense, and thanks for providing some context.

 

I simply disagree that Lewan belongs in that top tier...I think he's in the same class as the 2nd tier guys.

 

 

 

I wouldn't take Ebron that high either.

 

I don't think either of them are elite, which is what I want in the top 10 of this draft; an elite player.

 

I'd rather take Mike Evans or Aaron Donald than either of the guys you mention because I believe they'll be game-changers.

These make sense. I do think if an upper tier OT is there the Bills will take that(It's a most likely scenario and a big big need). However, if a someone like Mack falls to them, they may jump on the opportunity. None of us know who will drop to us. There seems to be someone every year that does. Teams have a tendency to go for pass rushers and pass protectors first these days so maybe we get neither. Perhaps we get an upper tier WR. Edited April 8, 2014 by Rockinon

[simpleman]

Ok look we need a RIGHT tackle, we do not need a LEFT tackle. LEFT tackles you take first round, RIGHT Tackles you take later on. We addressed LG in free agency I know fans don't want to hear that but that is what Whaley did. We need a RIGHT tackle and can find a good starter in the 3rd round. If we go RT in round one then I pray medical staff storm the draft room because Whaley and Company had strokes and went flat stupid. I think the Pick is TE = Ebron if he is still there or we will trade down (My choice).

 

I listed this in another thread. Everyone keeps talking about getting a OT in later rounds. Let's get real here. Unless someone shockingly falls, the OTs will be gone in the 2nd. Player rankings:

 

Billy Turner North Dakota State 3

JaWuan James Tennessee 3-4

Cameron Fleming Stanford 4

James Hurst North Carolina 4

Charles Leno Boise State 5

 

Other than James, none intrigue me as possible starters this year. And he just intrigues, not impresses.

Edited April 8, 2014 by simpleman

[TPS]

One other aspect about going OT at 9 vs Evans/Ebron, the OT will start day 1 and be an every down player; the others will start as situational players. If the staff is about winning this year, a new starting RT helps the most.

 

My preference for the first 2 picks based on who has a chance of being available:

Mathews or Lewan

Niklas or Crichton

 

[machine gun kelly]

I didn't feel like starting another thread so another point on G depth, I would bring in Davin Joseph to see has he in year 2 really healed his knee. The Bucs cut him due to the large contract, and he had an off 2013. He's made the pro bowl twice, and when healthy could be a good rotational player. I'm not saying sign him, but just evaluate him. He was very good for years. Very tough, and probably a league minimum deal with no guaranteed money. Could be worth looking at him.

[maryland-bills-fan]

Sorry dude. you and yours who keep spewing LT vs RT are dinosaurs. Think into the future, more passing in the league, more specialist pass rushers who come from everywhere, RT vs LT salary gap is closing and will not be meaningful in years to come. We can afford to pay OTs and it would sure be nice to see someone blocking on the Buffalo Bill's offensive line rather than just being offensive. Center and both OT would be set for years to come. If any of you nay sayers who spew forth the vitriol that RTs come on the cheap have ever played a down of ball, then you know the game is won in the trenches. We have studs on the D side, pair them up with the equivalent OL and we are talking dynasty! Control the line and control the game. Skill players are icing and not the cake.

Sorry dude. The 13th left tackle makes more $$ than the 1st right tackle. Money talks, BS walks.

[Tenhigh]

The top 3 OT's seem to be your best bet for "sure-fire" contribution to team success year 1. Skill position players, especially WR's, usually have a period of getting used to the NFL & that level on competition. They need to learn an entirely new playbook/system & can't get by on just their dominating physical attributes which helped them dominate the NCAA. QB's are in the same boat as well; they take a lot of time to get acclimated to the NFL as evidenced by Manuel last season.

 

Offensive linemen face the lowest learning curve. At the most basic level, they go out and block the player in front of them. They don't need to learn complicated routes or plays (for the most part) of a NFL playbook.

 

Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews, or Taylor Lewan could come in & start from day 1. All 3 of them have a bunch of college starts under their belt & should be ready to help improve their new offensive lines immediately. Look at how Glenn was able to contribute his rookie season and really not skip a beat.

 

This immediate impact is one of the reasons I am leaning towards going OT @ 9. On top of that, RT is now this team's most dire need with the addition of Mike Williams to our WR corp. The offensive line needs a lot of help & we should come out of this draft with a bare minimum of 2 new players. What happens if Cordy Glenn goes down? I do not want to see Eric Pears playing any major part of this team.

 

Manuel needs to be protected so he can develop properly & have time to throw the ball. I don't want to say he is injury prone yet but he suffered 3 separate injuries last season. The running game is also going to be their bread and butter apparently so improving the run blocking is key.

What if all 3 are gone by ##9?

[smapdi]

If all 3 of the top OTs then its a whole different ball game. That would likely mean someone very enticing would drop. If Mack is there, I'd take him. I'm not sold on Martin & wouldn't spend a top 10 pick on him.

 

I'm on my phone right now so I can't really work everything out but I'd say there is about a 90% chance one of the top 3 OTs is there at 9

[BigBuff423]

I think the Rams take Watkins at #2 and then trade with the BILLS from 13 to 9 to get Matthews....so, given that the Titans and Giants both need OL help, I don't see an OT really being that valuable at 13. And the reason I think the Rams trade with the BILLS is for that very reason, BILLS I think want to trade down, Rams will take Watkins a dynamic WR to help Bradford and knowing the Matthews and Lewan picks will be available at 9, will take one of those guys who can help immediately, but Watkins won't last to 9, so you take the best WR in the Draft, then use your chips to trade up for the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the Draft just ahead of your competition....at least that's how it plays out to me....BILLS pick up an extra pick or two and still get the guy they are truly targeting, ala 2013 with EJ

[thebandit27]

I think the Rams take Watkins at #2 and then trade with the BILLS from 13 to 9 to get Matthews....so, given that the Titans and Giants both need OL help, I don't see an OT really being that valuable at 13. And the reason I think the Rams trade with the BILLS is for that very reason, BILLS I think want to trade down, Rams will take Watkins a dynamic WR to help Bradford and knowing the Matthews and Lewan picks will be available at 9, will take one of those guys who can help immediately, but Watkins won't last to 9, so you take the best WR in the Draft, then use your chips to trade up for the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the Draft just ahead of your competition....at least that's how it plays out to me....BILLS pick up an extra pick or two and still get the guy they are truly targeting, ala 2013 with EJ

 

I just don't see any way Matthews gets to 9

[KOKBILLS]

I think the Rams take Watkins at #2 and then trade with the BILLS from 13 to 9 to get Matthews....so, given that the Titans and Giants both need OL help, I don't see an OT really being that valuable at 13. And the reason I think the Rams trade with the BILLS is for that very reason, BILLS I think want to trade down, Rams will take Watkins a dynamic WR to help Bradford and knowing the Matthews and Lewan picks will be available at 9, will take one of those guys who can help immediately, but Watkins won't last to 9, so you take the best WR in the Draft, then use your chips to trade up for the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the Draft just ahead of your competition....at least that's how it plays out to me....BILLS pick up an extra pick or two and still get the guy they are truly targeting, ala 2013 with EJ

 

So who is the guy they really want? Ebron?

[K-9]

Have you ever seen any of the OT's listed as potentially a 1st over all? No because although they are the best in the draft they are not elite. A RT at 9 is a huge reach.

 

If Clowney, Mack, and Watkins weren't in the conversation, you'd see Robinson in the discussion. Those are the four highest rated players in this draft and Matthews is a close fifth. No, they are not Orlando Pace, but they are as close to locks for perennial All Pro players as you can get going in.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Two words.

 

Mike Williams. (not the receiver)

Absolutely, because every offensive lineman ever taken in the top 10 has been a bust.

[KOKBILLS]

I just don't see any way Matthews gets to 9

 

He shouldn't...But he may if all 3 QB's go top 8, and Mike Evans goes #7 to Tampa...Of course that's assuming Clowney, Robinson, Watkins,and Mack also go top 8...

 

If the three QB's and Evans go top 8 then either Mack or Matthews slides to #9...

 

If Clowney, Mack, and Watkins weren't in the conversation, you'd see Robinson in the discussion. Those are the four highest rated players in this draft and Matthews is a close fifth. No, they are not Orlando Pace, but they are as close to locks for perennial All Pro players as you can get going in.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I still think at the end of the day Robinson is going to be the best player from this entire Draft...And I do think he has Orlando Pace potential...He's a nasty dude...

[Kirby Jackson]

Brandon Thomas tore his ACL in his workout for the Saints. One more OL to cross off the list. That is terrible. You've got to feel for the guy.

[KOKBILLS]

Brandon Thomas tore his ACL in his workout for the Saints. One more OL to cross off the list. That is terrible. You've got to feel for the guy.

 

That really sucks for the kid...And he's a guy I had my eye on because although he projects to OG he did play a lot of OT in College so he could provide nice depth for some team...

[Beerball]

 

 

He shouldn't...But he may if all 3 QB's go top 8, and Mike Evans goes #7 to Tampa...Of course that's assuming Clowney, Robinson, Watkins,and Mack also go top 8...

 

If the three QB's and Evans go top 8 then either Mack or Matthews slides to #9...

 

 

 

I still think at the end of the day Robinson is going to be the best player from this entire Draft...And I do think he has Orlando Pace potential...He's a nasty dude...

Safe to say, I think, that all it will take is the 3 QBs going in the top 8 to guarantee a really, really good player for the Bills. Mack or Matthews or Evans would make me very happy. I really like the flexibility that the Bills have going into this draft, just have to hope that the QB needy teams aren't willing to wait until round 2 (or be willing to drop back in round 1 allowing someone else to pop up and grab one of the good guys).

[K-9]

I still think at the end of the day Robinson is going to be the best player from this entire Draft...And I do think he has Orlando Pace potential...He's a nasty dude...

 

Agreed. I know a couple scouts that feel the exact same way. He plays with an edge and he's still learning the position. Sky's the limit for him.

 

Brandon Thomas tore his ACL in his workout for the Saints. One more OL to cross off the list. That is terrible. You've got to feel for the guy.

 

That really sucks. He was climbing, too. I won't be surprised if someone takes a 7th round flier this year and waits a couple seasons for him to rehab. He's a player.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

That really sucks for the kid...And he's a guy I had my eye on because although he projects to OG he did play a lot of OT in College so he could provide nice depth for some team...

I liked him too. Hopefully someone takes a chance on him and waits for him to recover.

[thebandit27]

He shouldn't...But he may if all 3 QB's go top 8, and Mike Evans goes #7 to Tampa...Of course that's assuming Clowney, Robinson, Watkins,and Mack also go top 8...

 

If the three QB's and Evans go top 8 then either Mack or Matthews slides to #9...

 

That's a GIGANTIC if...I mean, I hope it happens and Matthews is there at 9...just don't see it.

 

Agreed. I know a couple scouts that feel the exact same way. He plays with an edge and he's still learning the position. Sky's the limit for him.

 

 

 

That really sucks. He was climbing, too. I won't be surprised if someone takes a 7th round flier this year and waits a couple seasons for him to rehab. He's a player.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Thomas still gets picked in the top 5 rounds of this draft...I still believe he could've played OT in the NFL. I know certain teams liked him as a 2nd rounder.

[K-9]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Thomas still gets picked in the top 5 rounds of this draft...I still believe he could've played OT in the NFL. I know certain teams liked him as a 2nd rounder.

 

I can see that happening, too. Like I said, he was rising. I had heard late 2nd, early 3rd. So yeah, some team with the talent and patience to get him into their system and rehab him, could well take him earlier than his injury would suggest. I just feel bad for the kid.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

I can see that happening, too. Like I said, he was rising. I had heard late 2nd, early 3rd. So yeah, some team with the talent and patience to get him into their system and rehab him, could well take him earlier than his injury would suggest. I just feel bad for the kid.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Me too...that game he had against South Carolina was incredible.

[BigBuff423]

I just don't see any way Matthews gets to 9

 

And you may be right, but FWIW, here's my thoughts to why I think Matthews could make it to 9:

 

1. Houston: Clowney

2. St. Louis: Watkins

3. Jacksonville: Manziel (need a Face to brand, desperately)

4. Cleveland: Mack

5. Raiders: Carr

6. Atlanta: Robinson

7. Tampa Bay: Evans

8. Minnesota: Bortles

 

I think Bridgewater slips a bit to a team that already has a solid team in place but wants a QB who is ready to play but doesn't "need" him to step in today, ala Arizona...

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Sorry dude. The 13th left tackle makes more $$ than the 1st right tackle. Money talks, BS walks.

Yeah, and if you read my post I said the gap is closing and in the future won't be as significant. I never said they were equal or even that they will be some day. My point is that we can afford to pay two OTs decent money and solidify our OL for years. It's been too long since we had above average line play. So it's my opinion and take a walk with your BS comment.

[thebandit27]

 

 

And you may be right, but FWIW, here's my thoughts to why I think Matthews could make it to 9:

 

1. Houston: Clowney

2. St. Louis: Watkins

3. Jacksonville: Manziel (need a Face to brand, desperately)

4. Cleveland: Mack

5. Raiders: Carr

6. Atlanta: Robinson

7. Tampa Bay: Evans

8. Minnesota: Bortles

 

I think Bridgewater slips a bit to a team that already has a solid team in place but wants a QB who is ready to play but doesn't "need" him to step in today, ala Arizona...

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

 

If that many teams draft for need instead of value, then sure, I could see it.

 

I don't mean to dismiss the possibility; just saying that the sizable difference between need and value in this draft makes it highly unlikely IMO...but stranger things have happened

[San-O]

Take O-lineman in 1st is fine with me. Makes the whole O better, and would be a major upgrade at RT.

 

Also, I just saw an analysis of WR in this draft, and there appears to be value all over rounds 2 and 3, so getting another WR in this

draft is viable also, IMO.

 

If E.J. can't get the ball out to receivers with an improved O line AND additional receivers, he isn't they guy. Period. IMO.

 

I do suspect he will struggle to get the ball downfield, and this will become more evident with better O line play and deep threats.

 

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

 

WGR says that Mathews is visiting today. Any word on this?

 

 

http://www.wgr550.com/two-bills-drive/18758530

[tennesseeboy]

_{right tackle left tackle is more or less a non-issue. Many "left tackle" (which I always thought was considered a skill position) prospects start as right tackles and move on to left as they get experience. Further people run to the right, and rush over the right tackle. Right tackle is a pretty important position. Any of the three "blue chip" left tackle candidates in this draft could play right tackle and probably slip into left tackle if Cordy Glenn got hurt. OT is the best option for number 9}

[thebandit27]

_{right tackle left tackle is more or less a non-issue. Many "left tackle" (which I always thought was considered a skill position) prospects start as right tackles and move on to left as they get experience. Further people run to the right, and rush over the right tackle. Right tackle is a pretty important position. Any of the three "blue chip" left tackle candidates in this draft could play right tackle and probably slip into left tackle if Cordy Glenn got hurt. OT is the best option for number 9}

 

Not really...very few, in fact, do this...the only time it happens is when a team drafts a guy to be a LT, but has to play him at RT because their current LT is in his final year with the team.

[BigBuff423]

If that many teams draft for need instead of value, then sure, I could see it.

 

I don't mean to dismiss the possibility; just saying that the sizable difference between need and value in this draft makes it highly unlikely IMO...but stranger things have happened

 

yeah, like someone trading up for a pass rush specialist into the top 10, that never happens....wait...what? I did last year?? WTF! I'm just goofing around, but it seems every year stupid and foolish things take place in the early part of the Draft...and except for Evans to the Bucs at 7, all those other guys are worthy of their Draft slot....IMO of course, but if Ebron weren't a "reach" to some with the BILLS at 9, then Evans definitely isn't at 7, again IMO....

[smapdi]

I think the Williams trade was a stroke of genius for Whaley. Improving the o-line was definitely up there for TB, who pick at 7. Acquiring Williams makes Evans a much more enticing play for them now at 7 then going OT IMO. They pretty much have Vjax and nobody @ WR.

 

I really do feel that one of the top 3 linemen will be there for us @ 9. I personally would rate them: Robinson, Matthews, Lewan. I know a lot of people have questions regarding Lewan's off the field stuff but I don't think that is a major concern. I love the fact he is a very nasty OT that finishes his blocks & makes opposing players pay. We need some more of those guys on this team.

 

With near 100% certainty these players will be gone:

 

1.Clowney

2.Manziel

3.Watkins

4.Bridgewater/Bortles

5.Mack

6.Robinson

 

So that is 6 players if only 2 QB's go in the top 8. I have a hard time believing a team like HOU or CLE will pass on a QB with their first pick. I feel like Manziel is a lock in the top 8. Then if OAK gets that itch, that's 3 QB's in the top 8. MIN could also desperately use a QB so you can't rule them out. But let's just say 2 go in the top 8 for the sake of this argument.

 

So that brings us to TB. I think Evans is their target so that brings us to 7

 

That scenario leaves us with either Matthews or Lewan.

 

As another poster proposed, if all 3 OT's are gone, then that most likely means someone very enticing drops.

[Big C]

This type of thinking is what has kept the Bills at or near the bottom of the league for 14+ years IMO. Because its been that long since this franchise had an actual O line that could control the line of scrimmage.

 

But you are right in thinking that one O linemen isn't going to make or break a team, because it is a team sport and that line only succeeds with strong continuity from all five players.

 

Wanna know how many Buffalo Bills O linemen have made the pro bowl the last 20 years? Exactly two, and not at the same time, Ruben Brown an OG who played nine years for the Bills, and LT Jason Peters. That's it!

 

Man, I hope you are right with this train of thought.

 

Although, I'd really be very surprised the bills draft an OT with that #9, even if Matthews is still there.

 

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

[BigBuff423]

So who is the guy they really want? Ebron?

 

Personally, I don't think Ebron, and that's nothing but a hunch although if they do, it would most certainly spell a trade as I don't think Whaley values a TE in top 10....I think unfortunately it's going to be a LB or CB...WR is deep and there are some good tackles to be had in 2nd and 3rd Round and I think if the BILLS trade down, it's to gather more picks for WR and OT in 2nd / 3rd so they can go TE and RB in 3rd and 4th...just a thought...Moseley comes to mind, Justin Gilbert is another...but I think if they trade back, Moseley might be the guy...

[smapdi]

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

 

The problem is, we don't have Aaron Rodgers at them moment. This team is all in on EJ Manuel this season. They also aren't going be a passing offense. I don't know about you, but I'm looking for immediate progress & playoffs this season. I'm sick of missing out. IMO, the defense is good enough to be a playoff unit.

 

Adding that premiere tackle sets us up for success in a variety of ways:

 

- Immediate improvement to the worst unit of our offense

- Gives our young QB (whom they are dead set on; like it or not) more time

- Will improve the running the game which is this team's go-to on offense. CJ Spiller has the talent to be an elite back. We just need a line to help open things up.

- If Manuel busts this season, we have the pieces in place for a new QB to be successful

 

Call me old fashioned but I still feel like games are won and lost in the trenches. Just look at how badly our line was abused last season. If you can dominate at the line, things become much easier for everyone else.

 

Going into the offseason, my idea for this draft was playmaking WR, OT, TE in the first 3 rounds. Stealing Mike Williams takes care of adding a playmaking WR.

 

Now it comes down to what the best value is of OT vs TE in rounds 1 and 2. Give me Matthews or Lewan and then Niklas or ASJ instead of Ebron and ????

 

Niklas is the best in-line blocker in this TE class by far and is just getting started. He is a much better blocker then Ebron and a better redzone threat. Ebron only had 3 TE's and was used more as a split out, over sized WR. Niklas is you more traditional TE and is almost another OT out there at 6'6" / 270.

Edited April 8, 2014 by smapdi

[thebandit27]

yeah, like someone trading up for a pass rush specialist into the top 10, that never happens....wait...what? I did last year?? WTF! I'm just goofing around, but it seems every year stupid and foolish things take place in the early part of the Draft...and except for Evans to the Bucs at 7, all those other guys are worthy of their Draft slot....IMO of course, but if Ebron weren't a "reach" to some with the BILLS at 9, then Evans definitely isn't at 7, again IMO....

 

It's a fair point, and it hasn't escaped my attention. I truly hope teams do silly things and let Matthews slide...he's an excellent player. I'd love to get a top 5 talent at 9.

 

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

 

Bingo...that's the point: top 10 picks need to be top 10 talents.

 

Personally, I don't think Ebron, and that's nothing but a hunch although if they do, it would most certainly spell a trade as I don't think Whaley values a TE in top 10....I think unfortunately it's going to be a LB or CB...WR is deep and there are some good tackles to be had in 2nd and 3rd Round and I think if the BILLS trade down, it's to gather more picks for WR and OT in 2nd / 3rd so they can go TE and RB in 3rd and 4th...just a thought...Moseley comes to mind, Justin Gilbert is another...but I think if they trade back, Moseley might be the guy...

 

I still believe there's a very good chance the Bills move up if they want a guy like Watkins.

 

The problem is, we don't have Aaron Rodgers at them moment. This team is all in on EJ Manuel this season. They also aren't going be a passing offense. I don't know about you, but I'm looking for immediate progress & playoffs this season. I'm sick of missing out. IMO, the defense is good enough to be a playoff unit.

 

Adding that premiere tackle sets us up for success in a variety of ways:

 

- Immediate improvement to the worst unit of our offense

- Gives our young QB (whom they are dead set on; like it or not) more time

- Will improve the running the game which is this team's go-to on offense. CJ Spiller has the talent to be an elite back. We just need a line to help open things up.

- If Manuel busts this season, we have the pieces in place for a new QB to be successful

 

Call me old fashioned but I still feel like games are won and lost in the trenches. Just look at how badly our line was abused last season. If you can dominate at the line, things become much easier for everyone else.

 

Thing is, our line wasn't really abused last season. Most of the protection problems were on the QB's (all 3 of them). Plenty of times the OL did their job in providing protection, but the QBs failed to get themselves into position to be able to take their time for routes to develop. Now, part of the problem stemmed from relative lack of open WRs, which is a big part of why Ike Hilliard was jettisoned.

 

Overall though, the biggest improvement in pass protection will come from the QBs getting comfortable in the pocket; last season, they weren't.

[DOGNESS]

If you want to compete with Sanfran and Seattle you better have an o-line on par with the 92 Cowboys. Thats right. I said it. 92 Cowboys. One of the best o-lines of all time. Getting matthews or lewan would help accomplish that. Im fine with o-line in the first. The Mike Williams signing should get us by for the upcoming year at wr. Draft a receiver in the 3rd or 4th and develop him. Would also like a guard and rb somewhere in rounds 2-4.

[Beerball]

Sorry dude. The 13th left tackle makes more $$ than the 1st right tackle. Money talks, BS walks.

Not really if you're talking about rookie deals. First contracts are slotted by when a player was taken. When it comes time to re-sign a player then the position can come into play but it really doesn't factor in much with the rookie deals.

[smapdi]

Thing is, our line wasn't really abused last season. Most of the protection problems were on the QB's (all 3 of them). Plenty of times the OL did their job in providing protection, but the QBs failed to get themselves into position to be able to take their time for routes to develop. Now, part of the problem stemmed from relative lack of open WRs, which is a big part of why Ike Hilliard was jettisoned.

 

Overall though, the biggest improvement in pass protection will come from the QBs getting comfortable in the pocket; last season, they weren't.

 

You should check out this link: http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Bills were ranked 29th in pass protection according to their metrics allowing 48 sacks

 

I don't know how allowing 48 sacks is anything other then terrible. Yes, our QB play was awful but the line wasn't much better. Spiller went from 6.0 ypc to 4.6ypc. That wasn't all just due to injuries.

 

Digging even deeper, the Bills were 30th in league running at the LE (RT side) @ only 2.13 adjusted line yards

 

Definitely check out that link if you think the offensive line was anything other then bad last season

 

 

I just think that the drop off from the top 3 of Robinson, Matthews, & Lewan is just too great to find an immediate starter. People have thrown around Martin but he will be gone by our 2nd round pick and there are questions about his ability to play RT at only 6'4

Edited April 8, 2014 by smapdi

[thebandit27]

You should check out this link: http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Bills were ranked 29th in pass protection according to their metrics allowing 48 sacks

 

I don't know how allowing 48 sacks is anything other then terrible. Yes, our QB play was awful but the line wasn't much better. Spiller went from 6.0 ypc to 4.6ypc. That wasn't all just due to injuries.

 

Digging even deeper, the Bills were 30th in league running at the LE (RT side) @ only 2.13 adjusted line yards

 

Definitely check out that link if you think the offensive line was anything other then bad last season

 

 

I just think that the drop off from the top 3 of Robinson, Matthews, & Lewan is just too great to find an immediate starter. People have thrown around Martin but he will be gone by our 2nd round pick and there are questions about his ability to play RT at only 6'4

 

10 Steps Ahead of ya:

 

http://forums.twobil...e-ol-confusion/

 

EDIT: just realized that comment may have come off sounding sassy...not my intent...sorry

Edited April 8, 2014 by thebandit27