New Stadium or Retrofitting the Ralph?

[PromoTheRobot]

I am against a retractable roof only because it's $200-$300 million spent on something that gets used 2-3 times a year.

Edited April 2, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[Buftex]

That will never happen. The Bills are numero uno by a mile. UB football is a nice add-on but it will never replace the Bills unless the Bills left town, and even then it would never be the same.

 

Oh, I agree...I don't have to live there to know that. Just saying, when you are dealing with a University you are dealing with a whole bunch of headaches you wouldn't have to deal with otherwise.

[thewildrabbit]

The options are basically a) fix up RWS b) build new at the RWS site or c) build new elsewhere.

 

Fixing up RWS is the worst idea because there are issues with RWS that you can't fix: the narrow concourses. To fix that you are basically blowing up the whole thing and starting from scratch. And if you do that where do the Bills play for 1-2 years? UB stadium? (30K capacity) Rogers Centre? (Whole seasons in Toronto?? ) Carrier Dome in Syracuse?

 

There is enough room (likely in the lots across Abbott Rd.) to build a new stadium. One advantage is people are used to having the stadium there. They know the roads can handle the traffic etc. Neighbors are already used to having RWS there. (No NIMBY issues.) But it's not the sexiest location and if they wanted to build a "Patriot Place" style retail development around it they'd likely get flack from McKinley Mall.

 

If you are going to build new elsewhere, where are the best locations?

 

Waterfront, south of downtown - Could be glorious on a nice day but pure hell late in the season when you get 60 mph gales off the lake.

 

Downtown, foot of Main - Thanks to Perry Pegula you have a burgeoning entertainment district with the FNC, Harborcenter, Canalside and the Cobblestone district, not to mention the casino. Plus the Metro runs there. New stadium could fit nicely, especially if Pegula emerges as the team owner.

 

Niagara Falls, USA - Billionaire Howard Millstien owns acres of land south of the Casino. More than enough for a stadium, hotel, parking, etc. It's closer to Toronto and rail lines from Toronto are close by. You have lots of hotels and attractions on the Canadian side and the idea of a Super Bowl there one day is plausible. Plus a stadium complex could be a catalyst for further development. But NF, USA is an urban tumor. A total crap hole. Can anything turn that dump around?

 

On or near UB Amherst campus - Here's a place no one is really talking about but if you think about it, it makes good sense. Lots of land on and near UB campus, close to I-90, 290 and 990. Metro can be extended there easily. (Which was the original plan.) A little closer to Rochester and Toronto. Plus you have a second football team as a potential tenant: the UB Bulls. Why not get twice the use from a new stadium?

 

PTR

You would think that if NF is truly a dump, that the land would come cheap. Buy it all up, and then tear all it down to rebuild a state of the art complex that would be a super bowl draw.

[need therapy]

You would think that if NF is truly a dump, that the land would come cheap. Buy it all up, and then tear all it down to rebuild a state of the art complex that would be a super bowl draw.

 

The cost of the land is not at the top of considerations in making this decision. Land is cheap in Buffalo too. New York State has committed $1 billion dollars to rejuvenate Buffalo. That money, along with what is currently happening with Canalside and HarborCenter, has the potential to get the job done. I have a hard time believing that anyone that the state has appointed to the new stadium advisory committee is going to recommend they locate a new stadium in Niagara Falls.

[BreezeMafia]

The options are basically a) fix up RWS b) build new at the RWS site or c) build new elsewhere.

 

Fixing up RWS is the worst idea because there are issues with RWS that you can't fix: the narrow concourses. To fix that you are basically blowing up the whole thing and starting from scratch. And if you do that where do the Bills play for 1-2 years? UB stadium? (30K capacity) Rogers Centre? (Whole seasons in Toronto?? ) Carrier Dome in Syracuse?

 

There is enough room (likely in the lots across Abbott Rd.) to build a new stadium. One advantage is people are used to having the stadium there. They know the roads can handle the traffic etc. Neighbors are already used to having RWS there. (No NIMBY issues.) But it's not the sexiest location and if they wanted to build a "Patriot Place" style retail development around it they'd likely get flack from McKinley Mall.

 

If you are going to build new elsewhere, where are the best locations?

 

Waterfront, south of downtown - Could be glorious on a nice day but pure hell late in the season when you get 60 mph gales off the lake.

 

Downtown, foot of Main - Thanks to Perry Pegula you have a burgeoning entertainment district with the FNC, Harborcenter, Canalside and the Cobblestone district, not to mention the casino. Plus the Metro runs there. New stadium could fit nicely, especially if Pegula emerges as the team owner.

 

Niagara Falls, USA - Billionaire Howard Millstien owns acres of land south of the Casino. More than enough for a stadium, hotel, parking, etc. It's closer to Toronto and rail lines from Toronto are close by. You have lots of hotels and attractions on the Canadian side and the idea of a Super Bowl there one day is plausible. Plus a stadium complex could be a catalyst for further development. But NF, USA is an urban tumor. A total crap hole. Can anything turn that dump around?

 

On or near UB Amherst campus - Here's a place no one is really talking about but if you think about it, it makes good sense. Lots of land on and near UB campus, close to I-90, 290 and 990. Metro can be extended there easily. (Which was the original plan.) A little closer to Rochester and Toronto. Plus you have a second football team as a potential tenant: the UB Bulls. Why not get twice the use from a new stadium?

 

PTR

 

Not necessarliy near UB, but I agree with the needing to build a "hypothetical new Ralph" near major route arteries. If downtown would be considered, you have to think that more entry / exit routes would have to be built. Here in Philly, the City and The Eagles have a very sweet set up in the old shipyard district. One of the things thats most attractive to me is getting in / out of the Sports Zone where the Eagles / Flyers / Phillies all play. Easy access to all main roads in and out.

[dwight in philly]

Not necessarliy near UB, but I agree with the needing to build a "hypothetical new Ralph" near major route arteries. If downtown would be considered, you have to think that more entry / exit routes would have to be built. Here in Philly, the City and The Eagles have a very sweet set up in the old shipyard district. One of the things thats most attractive to me is getting in / out of the Sports Zone where the Eagles / Flyers / Phillies all play. Easy access to all main roads in and out.

i respectfully disagree, i wont go there for the very reason EVERYTHING is there..

[Ramius]

 

 

That is a valid point..but having the University involved could be seen as a negative by some NFL owners. Don't know that for sure, and it has been so long since I lived in WNY, so I may not be cognisent of everything. I can tell you though, I work at a major university (Texas). The university has put the kibosh on many outside ventures here in Austin.

 

I realize it may not quite the same dynamic we are talking about with UB, NYS and the Bills... for example, on three different occaisions, since I have been in Austin, the Rolling Stones were in negotions to play the football stadium at UT. They had never once played here (the "live music capital of the world" they say!), but each time, complying with UT rules and regulations (I imagine), UT wanting a healthy cut of vendors intake, and limitiing alchohol sales, the band backed out. It has happened numerous times with large touring events. I just wonder how much the NFL would be willing to deal with this type of thing.

 

I guess it works in Arizona, but that is still one of about 5 or 6 franchises that comes up as teams most likely to move. A lot will depend on how much the NFL really prioritizes keeping the Bills in Buffalo.

 

NCAA rules prohibit alcohol sales if the venue is on campus property. Here at FSU, you cant buy beer at football games but you can at basketball games because the civic center is off campus.

[Buftex]

NCAA rules prohibit alcohol sales if the venue is on campus property. Here at FSU, you cant buy beer at football games but you can at basketball games because the civic center is off campus.

 

That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. A stadium for the Bills/Bulls sounds like a great idea, but there are a lot of obstacles to work around. Not sure what the setup is in Arizona. I am assuming the stadium is not on the college campus?

[Ramius]

 

 

That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. A stadium for the Bills/Bulls sounds like a great idea, but there are a lot of obstacles to work around. Not sure what the setup is in Arizona. I am assuming the stadium is not on the college campus?

 

I suppose you could build it adjacent to campus, like our civic center is.

 

Its definitely an interesring scenario. You could ideally build a 60-65k stadium and put the crowd close, like Seattle did.

[eme123]

Current RWS Site- Prime for parking, tailgating, & traffic issues.

 

Downtown- Actually gives our local economy a boost unlike Orchard Park. Its more conducive to out of town fans. It will have a significant impact on small business as well. Traffic & parking would be hell but thats life in a thriving metropolis. Tailgating would suffer but at least we wouldn't have to worry about 20 year old kids ending up dead in a creek. It would also be less likely drunks would be falling from the upper deck. I'd venture to say by ruining binge drinking tailgate traditions lives would be saved.

 

Outside Erie County- This would be very unlikely considering Erie Co has thrown hundreds of millions at the Bills over the years. Anyone who has ever tried renovating/building something in niagara falls knows you can plan on 20%-30% extra on the total cost of the project to cover strong arming from union thugs and politicians.

[Chandler#81]

NCAA rules prohibit alcohol sales if the venue is on campus property. Here at FSU, you cant buy beer at football games but you can at basketball games because the civic center is off campus.

 

Yeah, but, frankly, therein lies the ticket. Is there a single NCAA rule that's ever followed? Would beer sales significantly increase income for the school? It won't be long before amature athletes are paid for endorsements, at a minimum.. Beer sales to legal aged fans are inevitable, IMO.

[Metal Man]

NCAA rules prohibit alcohol sales if the venue is on campus property. Here at FSU, you cant buy beer at football games but you can at basketball games because the civic center is off campus.

 

I always thought this was the case but the Carrier Dome is on the Syracuse campus and I have purchased many a beer there for football and basketball games. Not sure how they are exempt.

[machine gun kelly]

The options are basically a) fix up RWS b) build new at the RWS site or c) build new elsewhere.

 

Fixing up RWS is the worst idea because there are issues with RWS that you can't fix: the narrow concourses. To fix that you are basically blowing up the whole thing and starting from scratch. And if you do that where do the Bills play for 1-2 years? UB stadium? (30K capacity) Rogers Centre? (Whole seasons in Toronto?? ) Carrier Dome in Syracuse?

 

There is enough room (likely in the lots across Abbott Rd.) to build a new stadium. One advantage is people are used to having the stadium there. They know the roads can handle the traffic etc. Neighbors are already used to having RWS there. (No NIMBY issues.) But it's not the sexiest location and if they wanted to build a "Patriot Place" style retail development around it they'd likely get flack from McKinley Mall.

 

If you are going to build new elsewhere, where are the best locations?

 

Waterfront, south of downtown - Could be glorious on a nice day but pure hell late in the season when you get 60 mph gales off the lake.

 

Downtown, foot of Main - Thanks to Perry Pegula you have a burgeoning entertainment district with the FNC, Harborcenter, Canalside and the Cobblestone district, not to mention the casino. Plus the Metro runs there. New stadium could fit nicely, especially if Pegula emerges as the team owner.

 

Niagara Falls, USA - Billionaire Howard Millstien owns acres of land south of the Casino. More than enough for a stadium, hotel, parking, etc. It's closer to Toronto and rail lines from Toronto are close by. You have lots of hotels and attractions on the Canadian side and the idea of a Super Bowl there one day is plausible. Plus a stadium complex could be a catalyst for further development. But NF, USA is an urban tumor. A total crap hole. Can anything turn that dump around?

 

On or near UB Amherst campus - Here's a place no one is really talking about but if you think about it, it makes good sense. Lots of land on and near UB campus, close to I-90, 290 and 990. Metro can be extended there easily. (Which was the original plan.) A little closer to Rochester and Toronto. Plus you have a second football team as a potential tenant: the UB Bulls. Why not get twice the use from a new stadium?

 

PTR

 

Well thought out post PTR. My vote is Niagara Falls. Just from a pure business opportunity, it would eventually revitalize a low income area, be right in the middle between Toronto, and Rochester, traingulating the team, and the NFL would love it regionalizing the Bills. That makes it that much easier with a better team to get back to sell outs for all games, and increased revenue in boxes, and club level seating. Why? Because there is more money in CA, and Rochester than Buffalo. Companies like Kodak might actually want to buy the naming rights to the stadium.

 

Now we need to find a wealthy owner who loves the Bills in Buffalo.

[plenzmd1]

Man, as someone who grew up in Love Canal, my hometown is getting killed in this thread!

 

i think the Ralph is one of the "assets" for this team, much like Lambeau field is for the Packers. I have no idea what a retro fit like that would cost as opposed to new a stadium, but that would be my wish.

 

I love the seating bowl of the Ralph, hate the concourses. I dont know if it is possible to keep one and redo the other.

[May Day 10]

I agree. As time goes, the more unique and valuable the whole RWS "thing" will be. Look at Wrigley Field. Everyone I know has made a trip there and loved it. Its mainly a matter of structural integrity, and how feasible it is they dont interrupt September - December/January (lol). Any major renovation there can create potential revenue streams.

 

I really do like the UB/Amherst idea, especially if UB can work out a deal with themselves and a better NCAA Conference (as well as the public here). I would think if interest can grow, conferences would really be open to landing the WNY TV market. Will people show up? I dont know. I currently attend games in the MAC and I love it, but disappointed more people dont go. It doesnt help that the stadium there is the worst venue I have witnessed any sport in. I do think if the Bills left, the program would stand a chance to take off.

But if they can crowbar everything into the same facility... and UB could be in the Big10 or ACC with large crowds. Oh my.

 

UB is pouring money into the current monstrousity though.

 

I will add West Virginia sells beer too, and may be the only Big 12 school that does so.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

somewhere west of Batavia and east of Amherst. Shorter commute for Rochester and Syracuse, slightly longer for Canadians but hey whats a little more (countryside driving).

 

But bad news for the guys like Hammers Lot

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Anyone else think that if they build a new domed stadium in Niagra Falls, NY they could be viewed as a candidate to host the Super Bowl in years to come?

 

 

CBF

[May Day 10]

no. Niagara Falls is an embarrassing hellhole

[Buftex]

Anyone else think that if they build a new domed stadium in Niagra Falls, NY they could be viewed as a candidate to host the Super Bowl in years to come?

 

 

CBF

 

 

The Canadian side of the Falls might be able to handle a Super Bowl in the not too distant future...but the American side, I don't know. Of course, at this point, the Super Bowl is more of a corporate thing, but the whole passport issue might be a consideration.

[Mr. WEO]

Well thought out post PTR. My vote is Niagara Falls. Just from a pure business opportunity, it would eventually revitalize a low income area, be right in the middle between Toronto, and Rochester, traingulating the team, and the NFL would love it regionalizing the Bills. That makes it that much easier with a better team to get back to sell outs for all games, and increased revenue in boxes, and club level seating. Why? Because there is more money in CA, and Rochester than Buffalo. Companies like Kodak might actually want to buy the naming rights to the stadium.

 

Now we need to find a wealthy owner who loves the Bills in Buffalo.

 

Stadiums don't revitalize urban blight. The literature is fairly clear on this. In fact, significant economic impact from a new stadium rarely materializes--at least nowhere near to the scale promised by developers/teams/politicians.

 

NF would not fill any criteria required for successful econmic development at any scale. And actually, Buffalo is right in between Toronto and Rochester. It's no easier geeting there from Rochester than OP.

 

Kodak? Naming rights? Kodak is broke and has been so for years--in fact when they went bankrupt in 2012, they bailed out of their "Kodak Theater" deal in Hollywood. They couldn't sponsor a beer stand.

 

Wait, come to think of it, NF and Kodak may be a perfect pair!