OldTimer1960 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 In every Draft I'm always 100% open to a trade down if it gets you a 2nd round pick in return, as long as you don't have to go too far down of course...I think with the crazy amount of top talent in this Draft a trade down is even more enticing... But I'm looking at this Draft a little different than others...There are players at the top of this Draft that look to be once in a decade types...And if you feel like you need one of them...well...do it...The depth of this Draft would lead me to be a little more willing to gamble on greatness with my first pick...I think players like Matthews, Lewan, and Martin are going to be good, solid NFL OT's...No doubt about it...But I also think, despite the current hype to the contrary, it does matter some that they will play RT for this team for at least another 2 years...So I'm far more inclined to take Evans at #9 and try to develop him into a true NFL #1 WR...If by some miracle Sammy Watkins falls to the Bills I doubt very much they pass on him...And if they truly believe he's the next Vernon Davis I have no problem with Ebron at #9, though I prefer Evans...I do really like Ebron's make-up...And I believe he has a true desire to be the best...I would imagine that IF the Bills go WR in the 1st round they'll look to go OT at #41 with a player like Morgan Moses or Kouandjio... I expect the Bills to come out of this Draft with a WR, an OT, an OG, and a S minimum...I think they could also Draft another CB, RB, DE, or TE depending on how things fall...I would be surprised if they took a QB, DT, or LB (especially if they believe Ty Powell can back-up Spikes in the middle)... I am REALLY torn regarding which way to go. To me, most important is to get solid players in round 1-3. While I'd lean to WR in round 1 (because I think that by Bills' pick in round 2 5-7 WRs will be gone), I am not completely sold on Evans. I might even prefer Marqise Lee. I just don't know if I think Mike Evans will be a true top WR - if he can get seperTion in the NFL w/o Fran Tarkenton - err Johnny Manziel scrambling around for a long time then he could be GREAT, but I do fear that he could be midling to worse against NFL DBS. I'd MUCH prefer Sammy Watkins, but he won't be available. Between Evans and Lee, I think Lee is the safer pick. Remember, not every (or even many) of the top WRs are these monster tall guys. There is still room for the fast shifty guys who can truly get open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I am REALLY torn regarding which way to go. To me, most important is to get solid players in round 1-3. While I'd lean to WR in round 1 (because I think that by Bills' pick in round 2 5-7 WRs will be gone), I am not completely sold on Evans. I might even prefer Marqise Lee. I just don't know if I think Mike Evans will be a true top WR - if he can get seperTion in the NFL w/o Fran Tarkenton - err Johnny Manziel scrambling around for a long time then he could be GREAT, but I do fear that he could be midling to worse against NFL DBS. I'd MUCH prefer Sammy Watkins, but he won't be available. Between Evans and Lee, I think Lee is the safer pick. Remember, not every (or even many) of the top WRs are these monster tall guys. There is still room for the fast shifty guys who can truly get open. There is... But the Bills already have a couple of them (Woods and SJ)...And being 6-5 with 35" arms, a 37" vertical, and 4.5 speed give Evans a leg up on the competition... I'm not trying to predict Evans will be the next great thing...And I do think he will need time...But I would not be so quick to dismiss 2500 yards and 17 TD's in 2 SEC seasons...The questions concerning Evans are the same questions this board, and the football world, had about another ultra-productive SEC WR two years ago...Alshon Jeffery...Athletically Evans and Jeffery are similar, only Evans is 2" taller...Both are long and snatch everything out of the air...All that matters with Evans is how well he takes to coaching and how hard he works...If he puts in his time, and learns well, just like Jeffery he'll do well in the NFL...And that's a match-up nightmare for opposing Defenses... I think this write up pegged Evans pretty well...You just don't come across players with his size, athletic ability, and the ability to snatch the ball very often...They are very, very, rare... http://thesidelineview.com/scouting-report/mike-evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i miss marv Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 It seems like it is easier to find an OT in free agency or later in the draft then a #1 WR. If the bills wanted to they could have grabbed Albert and been fine at OT, but what WR could they have grabbed and been set at the #1 WR (Steve Smith D-JAX Decker) I wouldn't consider any of these guys #1. So although drafting a WR like Evans is risky I think with our cap space and ability if we valued linemen to sign one, we should roll the dice and hope we get a guy like AJ Green or Julio Jones like we should have in 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGUNBILLS Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think all the Ebron chatter from OBD is just a smoke screen. Whaley wants trade back offers, and the Giants, Eagles, Lions and Panthers are all paying attention. <puts tin foil hat on> A smoke screen with a few mirrors involved to add to the illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i miss marv Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 If the Bills can convince other teams they are drafting Ebron then get who they really want plus extra picks that would be great (just like last years trade was the right move) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Starting to think Watkins AND Evans are gone by the 9th pick. So in that scenario, the following could be off the board (my mock): Texans: Bortles Rams: Robinson Jags: Manziel Browns: Mack (may swap with Rams to get Manziel) Raiders: Evans Atlanta: Clowney Bucs: Watkins Vikes: Bridgewater Bills: Matthews I honestly can see a scenario where Clowney could fall to us at 9. The Falcons could go Matthews also. The Vikes wont pass on Bridgewater. But can someone explain how the hell the Jags are not going QB here? Every mock its Clowney. No way. That defense came on last year. They need a QB. Manziel has to be the pick. Whos putting fans in their seats....Clowney or Manziel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've watched some of Ebron, and I just don't think his overall skill set warrants the #9 overall pick. I think to be a TE picked in the top 10 of the NFL draft you need to be a beast: A physical specimen who wins in the passing game and scored TD's. Ebron somewhat fits the description but not entirely. I just think he's more of a middle of the first round value. Taylor Lewan is a bit of an enigma to me. At first I didn't like him at all. then he started growing on me, particularly his run blocking. And now, I've 180'd back to not being a big fan of his. At 6'8" - 310 lbs. I don't think he's got the ideal bulk to play RT. I'm also not sold at all on drafting a RT at #9, when we found out LT at pick #41 a few years back. I love Greg Robinson, he's an athletic specimen that can move and block. He'll be gone in the top 6. Jake Matthews intrigues me, as does Mike Evans. They're players that seem to fit our needs and the right value at #9. I think there is a better than 50/50 chance 1 of those 2 will be on the board when we pick (more likely Evans than Matthews), and I'm definitely warming to the idea of Mike Evans in Buffalo. Doug Whaley has been very forward with his thoughts on getting receivers that are big and open even when they are covered. The question, as the draft nears becomes: will the Bills value Mike Evans enough to pull him off the board at #9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) The Bills resigned Clausen and Chandler and have Moeki and Gragg on the team, they are not drafting Ebron. Give it up. Did u just mention Clauson Really!! Clauson? Why not Stupar or Nelson Edited March 23, 2014 by NastyNateSoldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Starting to think Watkins AND Evans are gone by the 9th pick. So in that scenario, the following could be off the board (my mock): Texans: Bortles Rams: Robinson Jags: Manziel Browns: Mack (may swap with Rams to get Manziel) Raiders: Evans Atlanta: Clowney Bucs: Watkins Vikes: Bridgewater Bills: Matthews I honestly can see a scenario where Clowney could fall to us at 9. The Falcons could go Matthews also. The Vikes wont pass on Bridgewater. But can someone explain how the hell the Jags are not going QB here? Every mock its Clowney. No way. That defense came on last year. They need a QB. Manziel has to be the pick. Whos putting fans in their seats....Clowney or Manziel? No way Clowney falls to us. Take Evans or trade back and take Jordan Mathews or Kelvin Benjamin and gain a 2nd or 3rd round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So I guess, if Aaron Donald is the pick, this board will go berserk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I wouldn't want Donald as it is a luxury pick with the roster now. We desperately need playmaking WR, TE, and RT. I would be pissed if we don't take one of those three spots unless Clowney was there as a beast pass rusher opposite Williams would be awesome. I'm not into fairy tale land so I know that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I don't see any WR helping all that much on this team when the OL is getting blown up as much as it is. WRs need time to get downfield and even though we have guys who can stretch the field, they aren't doing it. We saw EJ doing a lot of dinking an dunking for short yardage gains even though coming out of college his strength was intermediate to long routes. Can't believe how many people think a big WR is the answer. I still say the way to fix a problem is to attack the source of the problem. Get EJ time to throw and everything else falls into place. We saw first hand how a dominant DL helped last year. Why is it so difficult to imagine that a dominant OL will help as well? Put some dominant OLmen on the field and the entire offense improves both the pass and the run. Edited March 23, 2014 by Rockinon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't see any WR helping all that much on this team when the OL is getting blown up as much as it is. WRs need time to get downfield and even though we have guys who can stretch the field, they aren't doing it. We saw EJ doing a lot of dinking an dunking for short yardage gains even though coming out of college his strength was intermediate to long routes. Can't believe how many people think a big WR is the answer. I still say the way to fix a problem is to attack the source of the problem. Get EJ time to throw and everything else falls into place. We saw first hand how a dominant DL helped last year. Why is it so difficult to imagine that a dominant OL will help as well? Put some dominant OLmen on the field and the entire offense improves both the pass and the run. Ej has always had problems with the deep ball. A big reason I was nervous about him coming out of college. http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2013/2/8/3966860/scouting-nassib-manuel-and-dysert-a-metrics-breakdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny3000 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I'm a Bills fan. I never give up CBF Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I don't see any WR helping all that much on this team when the OL is getting blown up as much as it is. WRs need time to get downfield and even though we have guys who can stretch the field, they aren't doing it. We saw EJ doing a lot of dinking an dunking for short yardage gains even though coming out of college his strength was intermediate to long routes. Can't believe how many people think a big WR is the answer. I still say the way to fix a problem is to attack the source of the problem. Get EJ time to throw and everything else falls into place. We saw first hand how a dominant DL helped last year. Why is it so difficult to imagine that a dominant OL will help as well? Put some dominant OLmen on the field and the entire offense improves both the pass and the run. My upfront apologies for the length of this post...I got carried away... I don't question whatsoever that the Bills need to get better on the O-line, especially at RT... But the Draft is a process, every Draft is different, and there are more ways than one to address needs... To me it all comes down to who is still available at #9...If you tell me Matthews or Robinson will be available then I have no problem with the Bills Drafting either...They are both elite OT prospects who would likely have gone #1 overall in 2013...But...For the sake of this argument, and likely reality, I'm assuming both will be gone...That leaves Taylor Lewan and Zach Martin as potential OT picks at #9 overall...Lewan is a physical beast with big upside and questionable character...I'm a Michigan fan...Watched the kid for his whole College career...I think his upside is basically a slightly more physical Nate Solder...And that's a good thing...The problem is the off field stuff with Lewan...It's not your normal "College kid has too much to drink and messes up..." stuff...It's a bit more complicated, and it gives me a bad feeling about the kid, even being a Michigan fan...Martin is a good prospect but I don't think he's #9 overall material...He's probably going to be a very good OG in the NFL...I don't think he has the length to play OT in the league long-term... Which brings us to Evans...I think there is a ton of amateur over-scouting going on here...The same kind of over-scouting that made Alshon Jeffery a 2nd round pick despite some pretty serious evidence that he was a very special talent... This a couple years ago concerning Jeffery... "Route running: If there is an area of concern for scouts, this would be it. Many of Jeffery's routes in South Carolina's offense are relatively simple quick screens, slants, crossers and fades. He does not possess the elite speed, which may allow NFL cornerbacks to squat on underneath routes. He runs with good balance and is a developing route-runner, but isn't always capable of shaking off cornerbacks to gain real separation due to the fact that he lacks true explosiveness out of his cuts. When he is asked to run double moves, Jeffery often rounds off his cuts, gaining freedom more due to a series of shoulder fakes and adjusting his speeds, rather than exploding out of his breaks." "His performance in lateral agility drills was only average and not smooth. " "Jeffery is an elite jump-ball prospect, but he does not stand out as fast on tape and is such a long strider that at times he looks to be moving in slow motion. Speed will never be his game, but he needs to become more comfortable in his routes to work the corner and truly gain separation. The development of his route-running skills will be the key to his success. Jeffery was bit uncoordinated early in his career and only began to look comfortable in his body toward the end of his collegiate career..." "NFL teams are wondering what his playing weight will be and whether he will have the speed to get open against NFL defensive backs." "Jeffery lacks quick-cutting ability, and he spent much of 2011 failing to get separation from defensive backs because he couldn't make tight cuts on his short routes. " Now...Here's a comment by Matt Waldman who truly understood Jeffery and his potential...The same-type potential I see in Evans..."How did I grade out Alshon Jeffery in the 2012 NFL Draft? A potential cross between Michael Irvin and Chris Carter if Jeffery demonstrates he wants to work like a Pro..." And that's how I see Evans...If he works at his craft and gets the necessary coaching you're looking at a player who will have an AJ Green/Brandon Marshall type of impact as a Pro...The sky is the limit...None of these kids are 100% sure things...Scouts drool over Clowney who has the physical skills of freaking Zeus, but I watched a TON of SC games over the years and the kid could do a major disappearing act when he was not "on..." There are questions with the absolute best prospects...Nothing is guaranteed...At the end of the day it's always a leap of faith...I bold the word potential for a reason...Because that's what you're Drafting in any kid...Not a single one has played a down in the NFL...Not a single one has been through an NFL camp, and not a single one has had NFL coaching in the actual NFL when it is their job 24/7...I believe, if he's still there at #9, Evans will be the BPA because his potential is off the charts...His production in two SEC years was silly...And he has not come close to being a polished WR yet... So...to that point...I don't believe there will be a WR at #41 that has anything near Evans potential...I do believe that there will be a RT prospect at #41, or maybe even #73, that can come in and play fairly quickly and have a similar impact to Lewan (without the off field stuff), and Martin...It's just the way I see this particular Draft, and Evans...I have no idea how Whaley and company will see it though...And no question Evans could end up in the wrong system, or not have the proper attitude to excel in the NFL...It happens...If they take Lewan at #9 then so be it...Things could be worse no question...But I think when it's all said and done passing on Mike Evans will be a mistake...We'll see though... Edited March 23, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) My draft musings: Teams biggest need is on the offensive side of the ball. With pro-bowlers on the d-line & revamping the LB corp + signing of Graham, defense should not be addressed til the 3rd day. More specifically, offensive playmakers in the passing game are their biggest problem. NFL is a passing league & they just invested a 1 in Manuel. Let's get him some more weapons & see what the kid can do When you draft in the top 10, finding immediate top talent that can blossom into elite talent is the goal. With that in mind,,here some players; -Sammy Watkins: kid is a straight up playmaker who would instantly be our WR1 and move Stevie to slot. 6'1' as well -Mike Evans: huge target @ 6'5" that gives us that immediate red zone threat. ?'s regarding if he is a top 10 pick. He is the epitome of the "go up and get it, open even when covered" WR -Eric Ebron: 6'4" / 250 TE with speed. The new breed of the NFL TE. He immediately starts & moves Chandler into his ideal role of TE2. He splits out a lot & would create mismatches all over the place Watkins is the no-brainer but he probably won't be there. Between EVans & Ebron, I'm leaning Ebron. Reason being is the fact that he will see a ton more snaps then Evans as a rookie IMO. Getting Ebron also lets us move Chandler into TE2 where he much better suited. This team seems to be intent on running the ball so being able to roll out 2 legit TEs on plays will keep team's on their heels whether its a run or pass. Bills also have plenty of young talent @ WR & really dont use 4 or 5 WR sets very often. We all know how good Stevie is & Woods looks like the real deal opposite him. They just drafted 2 slot WR's pretty high in Goodwin & Graham which both have been spoken highly of. This draft is also very deep in WR and OT. You can get a kid like Matthews out of Vandy who has great size & only dominated in the best conference in college (SEC) My dream scenario would be trading down to grab Ebron, picking up an extra 2nd & then grabbing a player like Matthews & your new RT in the 2nd Edited March 23, 2014 by smapdi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I wouldn't want Donald as it is a luxury pick with the roster now. We desperately need playmaking WR, TE, and RT. I would be pissed if we don't take one of those three spots unless Clowney was there as a beast pass rusher opposite Williams would be awesome. I'm not into fairy tale land so I know that won't happen. Donald is a better football player than Clowney, despite Clowney's obvious measurables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So I guess, if Aaron Donald is the pick, this board will go berserk. Yes it will. A pick like that would come out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 KoBills. I really like the way you present your view, even though it is sort of long winded. I agree, that all of the armchair general managers have their own ideas about what the greatest need is and how to approach this years draft. It seems there are a lot more people who think WR is the greatest weakness. I am not so sure of this. Another thing that kind of gnaws at me here is how quickly we forget about the problems an offense has with a weak OL. It seems people want the sexy pick. The big fast aggressive WR is that pick. An offensive lineman is hardly sexy. They rarely get props for doing a great job, but a WR is the star that people see. Successful teams build dominant lines. We have the dominant defensive front with the possible exception of another big DE. The OL has a lot of problems and a lot of potential problems. If just one of our 2 best linemen go down to injury we are big trouble. Who is going to back them up? I see the OL as an area that needs extra attention. WR, not so much. Now as for how we do that. You are absolutely right about one thing. You are very much limited by what falls to you during the draft. If the 2 top OLmen are gone at 9. You may be better served going with another position. Who knows how that is going to play out? Not me, and not anyone else either. Not even Whaley. That said, the OL still needs to be bolstered. I want what I consider to be the Bills biggest weakness to be addressed. That's OL. And I really don't think the RT is the only position to keep an eye on. If Wood gets injured, we are in trouble. If Glenn goes down we are in trouble. If a WR goes down there are plenty of options still available. On OL that's entirely different story. This team has some dynamic players on offense now, but they are not getting it done on their own. They need a supporting cast. Woods appears to be very good and SJ is still pretty good. CJ and Fred are excellent backs and Chandler is not to shabby. This team has weapons but a lot of them are staying in to block instead of getting the ball in their hands where they can do the most to help. Our offensive line got run over too much last year and that's with all of the best linemen on the field. I see maybe 2 OLmen coming out of this draft and I really hope one of them is good enough to turn things around. See what ya started? Now I'm getting long winded. I'm outta here, for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't know what a sexy pick is, but drafting BPA is ALWAYS sexy to me. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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