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BB 2014 Off-season discussion; Mocks, FA, etc.


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He looks great but am I the only one having Mike Williams flashbacks with taking a OT that high?

 

Well...Williams was 4th overall...The Bills pick 9th this year so that should make you feel a little better... ;)

 

Tyron Smith went #9 overall just two years ago...I doubt I have to tell you how many quality OT's have gone in the top 10...Even the top 5...But to me at least all that does not matter in comparison to Robinson...I think that kid is a major difference maker waiting to happen...He's got perennial All Pro-type potential...He also projects well at any O-line position outside of C...He's special...And Williams was more of a bad luck pick anyway...He certainly had the ability to be a 10 year plus NFL RT...He just never really had the desire... B-)

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Well...Williams was 4th overall...The Bills pick 9th this year so that should make you feel a little better... ;)

 

Tyron Smith went #9 overall just two years ago...I doubt I have to tell you how many quality OT's have gone in the top 10...Even the top 5...But to me at least all that does not matter in comparison to Robinson...I think that kid is a major difference maker waiting to happen...He's got perennial All Pro-type potential...He also projects well at any O-line position outside of C...He's special...And Williams was more of a bad luck pick anyway...He certainly had the ability to be a 10 year plus NFL RT...He just never really had the desire... B-)

these guys say OT is the biggest need too.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2014/four-downs-afc-east

I don't think either Mathews or Robinson will be there, which is why I brought up Lewan as a possibility in another thread.

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these guys say OT is the biggest need too.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2014/four-downs-afc-east

I don't think either Mathews or Robinson will be there, which is why I brought up Lewan as a possibility in another thread.

 

I don't see the Bills reaching. Last year they were dead set on EJ but the value wasn't there at 8 so they traded back. IMO, they are not going to reach for any player as there are a bunch of needs (WR, TE, RT, LG, LB). I think that the Bills will probably target the best value at those positions. Watkins and Mack would be my targets and if they are not there I think that they trade back. I just can't see them taking a player tht they may have as the 20th best player in the draft in the top 10.

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these guys say OT is the biggest need too.

http://www.footballo...-downs-afc-east

I don't think either Mathews or Robinson will be there, which is why I brought up Lewan as a possibility in another thread.

If they end up taking Lewan :censored: then I hope they at least can trade down first.

 

Well...Williams was 4th overall...The Bills pick 9th this year so that should make you feel a little better... ;)

 

Tyron Smith went #9 overall just two years ago...I doubt I have to tell you how many quality OT's have gone in the top 10...Even the top 5...But to me at least all that does not matter in comparison to Robinson...I think that kid is a major difference maker waiting to happen...He's got perennial All Pro-type potential...He also projects well at any O-line position outside of C...He's special...And Williams was more of a bad luck pick anyway...He certainly had the ability to be a 10 year plus NFL RT...He just never really had the desire... B-)

I agree... or just a poor scouting job Edited by YoloinOhio
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Buddy Nixon@BuddyNixon 22h

I am hearing that Sammy Watkins is VERY high on the Bills draft board. He would be a lock for our pick at 9. We won't trade up though.

This should not come as a surprise IMO. He is the top ranked WR since AJ Green and Julio Jones according to Greg Cosell from NFL.com. Watkins is an elite playmaker. With that being said chances are slim to none that he makes it 9. 8 teams with bad records aren't going to pass on that type of skill player. Edited by Kirby Jackson
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So here is my first Mock for the Bills. I realize that a lot of ppl will probably hate

this draft, however I'm a pretty firm believer that the game is won upfront first, and the

back side is all about physicality. SO without much more delay here is my, none sexy pcik

draft.

 

Rd.1 Greg Robinson/Jake Matthews (OT)

 

Take your pick here. I feel like either one would be a solid upgrade. I don't think I

really need to explain these. Which ever is here at 9.

 

 

Rd.2 Cryil Richardson/Gabe Jackson (OG)

 

Big and Nasty. As with my first pick I'll take either one. This gives us 2 linemen that

could/should start day 1 and be improvements over what we have. Since they should start,

we could also pick up some money possibly dropping other contracts.

 

We had a great running attack last year...... but we ran the ball more than anyone else.

Not the best ratio. Also we need to keep EJ upright and give him just a little more time.

Regardless of how many play makers you have, if the QB can't get the ball out or the RB

can't get past the LOS it means nothing. Go ask Peyton if you don't believe me ( and yes

yes i know that the Seahawks have amazing corners/safeties that play man which was also a

factor)

 

End result - 2 big linemen drafted and hopefully 4-5 yrs of solid line play.

 

Rd.3 Chris Borland (LB)/ Donte Moncrief(WR)/ Martavis Bryant(WR)

 

So I gave a pretty wide range here. Why? Because it's a first mock draft. Combines and FA

still to come which would probably shake this all up.

 

Borland seems like a solid pick here. I think i saw some board members against this pick,

can't remember. As far as i can tell though, this seems about right and we do need another

LB.

 

HOWEVER - My pick personally would be Donte Moncrief or Martavis Bryant. Both are

extremely underrated WR imo. I know we have Elliot and Braden and Kaufmen, but these guys

could be animals. Also I'm sick of having small receivers. I like most, hope we release

Graham, and while Goodwin is entertaining, we have not shown the ability to use speedy

short receivers.

 

Rd. 4/5 C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE)/ Joe Don Duncan (TE)/ Lamin Barrow (ILB)

 

I am combining these 2 rounds. The reason being, I feel that pending which TE you want you

could reach a little to get Lamin Barrow with a 4th. However, it would think it is

unlikely to see C.J. Fiedorowicz fall anymore than the 4th. So this is really a matter of

which TE you want.

 

End Result A - C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE) + Lamin Barrow (ILB)

 

End Result B - Lamin Barrow (ILB) + Joe Don Duncan (TE)

 

Honestly I'm ok wither either.

 

Rd. 6/7 Max Bullough (ILB)/ Nickoe Whiteley (S)/ Vinnie Sunseri (SS)

Another pair of rounds i'm going to combine. This is because i find that the later rounds

have a lot more to do with coaches and scouts getting it right. That said I think i ahve

some nice choices.

 

My choice - Max Bullough (ILB) + Nickoe Whiteley (S)

 

 

Recap or TL:DR

 

Rd.1 Greg Robinson/Jake Mtthews (OT)

Rd.2 Cryil Richardson/Gabe Jackson (OG)

Rd.3 Donte Moncrief(WR)/ Martavis Bryant(WR)

Rd.4 C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE)

Rd.5 Lamin Barrow (ILB)

Rd.6 Max Bullough (ILB)

Rd.7 Nickoe Whiteley (S)

 

Went through Fanspeaks's Draft Sim trying to get as close to my post as possible, I ended with-

 

Rd.1 Greg Robinson/Jake Mtthews (OT)

Rd.2 Cryil Richardson/Gabe Jackson (OG)

Rd.3 Donte Moncrief(WR)/ Martavis Bryant(WR)

Rd.4 C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE)

Rd.5 Max Bullough (ILB) // Lamin Barrow (ILB) taken only a few spots ahead by the falcons

Rd.6 Vinnie Sunseri (SS)

Rd.7 Nickoe Whiteley (S)

 

Man, seems like we're on the same page...even down to specific players. However, I billieve the best value of this draft lies between rounds 2-4 (I think you can make that assumption year in and year out). While I agree with your reasoning, and target positions, I'm not so sure I agree with your first 2 picks. Yes, we need a T and a G, but like you said, we want to get guys that are better than what we have. All four of the guys you mention are just that, but there are others that will have as much success at the next level that could be had while addressing other needs. Now, I would stick with your guys if we were drafting for a LT, but we're not. Glenn is as good a LT as most in the NFL. Don't fix what ain't broke. To avoid redundancy, please refer to my earlier post in this thread regarding my mock.

 

In all honesty, given how early we are in the process, these kids are gonna slide up and down in the next few months leading up to the draft...here's my best/worst case scenario with where the prospects we've mentioned will land:

 

ASJ will end up being the top TE. He offers everything Ebron does, but is bigger and a much more complete NFL TE. With that said, I still think we can land him in the 15-20 range. Address OG in FA. If not, stick with my original plan and grab Martin in the same range and look to land a TE on day 2 (Fiedorwicz/Niklas):

 

Rd 1 - ASJ/Martin

 

Moncrief will jump up to an early day 2 slot. We grab him with one of the 2 second rounders we have/get with the trade down in rd 1.

 

Rd 2 - Moncrief & Moses

 

Attaochu will ear a rd 3 grade...so be it

 

Rd 3 - Attaochu

 

McCullers will be around where we're at in rd 4 and he's simply a monster. Adding him in the middle with Williams, Dareus and Branch would be great

 

Rd 4 - McCullers

 

Bullough will slide, just maybe not this far, but one can hope. We'll have to see how bad he screwed up to get suspended for a bowl game in his last year. If it shakes out and IF we move Alonso to WILL, plugging a guy like Bullough between Alonso and Attaochu makes for a great, yet green, LB core. We could forgo an ILB pick and grab Clarke here as I believe he'll jump up in the standings, problem is I think he ends up jumping up to round 4.

 

Rd 5 - Max Bullough/Will Clarke

 

Even with good workouts I think Sunsieri is still around given the injury and questions surroiunding the premature leap to the NFL...but, it's the 6th round and reward outweighs risk here.

 

Rd 6 - Vinny Sunsieri

 

Not many people view it as a need, but I do, so I turn to the offensive backfield here...why not, it's rd 7. Take your pick...both of these guys are in teh Freddy J mold.

 

Rd 7 - Gaffney/Johnson

 

Basically, I think it shakes out as to where we'll have to address one of the OL positions, safety and LB in FA.

 

Best case:

1 (top 20) - ASJ (TE)

2a - Moncrief (WR)

2b - Moses (RT)

3 - Attaochu (OLB)

4 - Clarke (DE)

5 - Bullough (ILB)

6 - Sunsieri (SS)

7 - Gaffney (RB)

 

Worst case:

1 (top 20) - Martin (OG)

2a - Moncrief (WR)

2b - Moses (OT)

3 - Fiedorwicz/Niklas (TE)

4 - McCullers (DT)

5 - Bullough (ILB)

6 - Sunsieri (SS)

7 - Johnson (RB)

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Someone please sell me on the idea of taking an OL with the first pick instead of a WR, TE, or LB

 

 

CBF

 

Watkins won't be there at 9, so WR at 9 is out.

None of the TE or LB are actually worth being taken #9.

 

More to the point, (excluding the LB), WR and TE does nothing for our Offence when EJ does not have time to throw. Also to restate whats been brought up a few times across the board, we have a wonderful set of running backs, but our line did a **** job of getting a good push last year. The lose of Levitre and Reinhart was easily noticeable, although not completely damaging to our teams future. Our D is clearly a few pieces from being the cream of the crop, but our Offence is, atrocious.

 

That being said, I do though there is great talent to be found in this draft.As with last year, I feel the best course of action with this #9 pick would be to trade down and gain another second and third. The problem is, how far back do you let yourself slide and how much does it affect the big board.

 

Zach Martin (OG)

Morgan Moses (OT)

Taylor Lewan (OT)

 

Those are linemen we could pick up later that the 9th slot if we stick with beefing up the O line.

 

As for LB. I would love to grab Mosley. for later rounds i think DeDe Lattimore is a sleeper pick.

 

TE. I agree that ASJ is a better overall product, and while we need one we do have serviceable iron hands chandler still on the team.

 

If we trade out of the 9th spot, i would be ALLLLLLL for taking TE/LB first. WR I feel is extremely deep and could be found in rounds 2-5. Brandon Coleman hasn't been mentioned but he could slip pretty far being a player from Rutgers.

 

That next question is:

 

Who are possible trade partners and what would we get in return, and obviously using the draft value chart helps determine the chance of the trade happening.

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This should not come as a surprise IMO. He is the top ranked WR since AJ Green and Julio Jones according to Greg Cosell from NFL.com. Watkins is an elite playmaker. With that being said chances are slim to none that he makes it 9. 8 teams with bad records aren't going to pass on that type of skill player.

Agreed, and even if the Bills don't plan to trade up for him (they need their picks) I think a team that is more stacked like the Niners, as we have discussed, might trade up for him with a team that wants/needs more picks like those usually drafting high. They are really one player away from winning the SB and Harbaugh ain't playing around.
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It seems like the current consensus among Bills fans is that there are three players in this year's draft that Bills would be stoked to get at 9th overall (I know some people are high on Ebron, but for now let's leave him out of this conversation):

 

Greg Robinson (OT)

Sammy Watkins (WR)

Jake Matthews (OT)

 

Most media draft experts expect three quarterbacks, and two elite pass-rushing talents to go before the Bills pick:

 

Teddy Bridgewater (QB)

Jadeveon Clowney (DE)

Johnny Manziel (QB)

Blake Bortles (QB)

Anthony Barr (OLB)

 

In total this amounts to eight ("blue-chip") prospects, meaning that if the Bills drafted at eighth overall, they would be guaranteed to land one of the Robinson-Watkins-Matthews trio. Instead, the Bills draft at ninth overall, which means that at least one other prospect must be drafted before the Buffalo is on the clock if the Bills can hope to land Robinson, Watkins, or Matthews. Among the potential prospects to be drafted at eight or before are:

 

Khalil Mack

Derek Carr (in a reach by a quarterback needy team like MIN)

Timmy Jernigan

 

So as a Bills fan, root for these guys to climb through the pre-draft process. If all of the top eight are drafted one thru eight, then there are two options:

 

(1) drafting Ebron, Lewan, Evans, or Mack if Whaley feels good about one of those guys.

(2) trading down to take Zach Martin, Morgan Moses, Marquise Lee, or Eric Ebron if he falls

Edited by johnwalter
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Bills need to go after a guard and a corner in free agency. Its a good class of free agents in both positions. Bills could get solid up grades with mid level guys at both positions (Since the Bills usually don't get upper tier free agents). In the draft they should go after a Tight end and a RT (Although if better players are at other positions of need it wouldn't hurt to go after others). Ideally they need to fills some gaps on defense and find a guard in free agency then draft some offensive talent around EJ in the draft.

 

They also need to keep Thad as the third string QB and find a quality backup for EJ. A good veteran teaching presence who could manage the team for a few games if EJ went down.

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In hopes of centralizing most of the discussion, I am starting this thread. All things related to the Bills' off-season are welcome...needs, FA targets, draft prospects & mock drafts, futures signings, new hires, likes/dislikes, et al.

 

Free Agency

 

Not all that attractive this year. Some big names, but that doesn't mean a good fit, although Jimmy Graham would fit anywhere. I like Decker too, but not so sure he presents the best value for cap money.

 

2 guys I do like, and I'll get flamed for this, are Brandon Spikes and Wade Smith.

 

Spikes is what he is...a 2 down, hole plugging run stuffer. He's a liability on passing downs but I think, for the most part, we'd be able to get him off the field in time. Kiko, as much as I love him, is simply not that 250ish ILB that will plug a hole, take out a blocker, shed and tackle. Spikes just blows runs up at or behind the line. Getting IR'd in January for being late doesn't bode well for a contract extension.

 

Wade Smith is a consistent, above average vet. OG this team will need to bring along what they hope to be solid young prospects. He's old, 33 to start nest season, but he's played his best over the last 2 seasons and would be a a nice stop gap mentor for 1-2 years.

 

I'm sure there are more guys at the 2nd-3rd tier level that we may kick the tires on, but that involves much more time and access than I got.

 

Mock Draft 1.0

 

It's super early...pre Sr. Bowl, combine, etc. so I based mine on what I Billieve to be team need...LB, O Line, WR, TE, SS and RB.

 

We are off to a good start in building a solid LB core. Kiko played very well and will progress. Manny isn't getting any younger (30 by the time the season starts), and then there is no one...Bradham, Moats and the rest are decent depth guys, but not much more than that. Not even so sure about Bradham in that regard either.

 

Rd 1, pick 9 - Khalil Mack, LB Buffalo. 6'3" 248Lbs. Homer pick...maybe, but this kid can flat out play! I've seen him all over the place on the draft boards, from top 50 to start the season to top 15 and now a top 10 selection. With the addition of Spikes and this pick next to Kiko and Lawson...pretty sick group!

 

Over the years we've pieced together a decent O Line. Far from great, but decent. We need some stability here. Wood & Glen are still young enough to blend in some better talent so they can gel. Some stability and longevity goes a long when you get a good group together. Look at Indy. For a bunch of years they had a great OL to protect Manning, which is something to emulate.

 

Rd 2, pick 41(a) - Cyril Richardson, G Baylor. 6'6" 340lbs. Big bodied brute. Dudes a mauler in run blocking but is surprisingly light on his feet, quick and athletic. He may get snatched up in rd. 1, so next best would be...

 

41(b) Gabe Jackson, G Miss St. 6'3" 340Lbs. Showed very well against top opponents. Well rounded, heady lineman

 

Here's where I go WR. This kid shows very well and could end up being the surprise talent of this years draft...yes, better than WAtkins, Evans, Lee...The late season signing of Moeaki signing and my belief that Chandler will extend helps take my attention away from TE for now.

 

Rd 3, pick 73 - Donte Moncrief, WR Miss. 6'3" 226lbs. Quick, breakaway speed on a big bodied receiver who has great hands and runs sharp, smooth routes. Beats the jam and can get behind a CB. Also, goes over the middle w/out fear. I've read that this kid is a nightmare for DB's.

 

Back to the OL. We signed our vet and got our young stud at G, so now we need the other bookend. I waited till now because we're still not sure what have in Hairston. Is he made of glass, or does he build upon 2 years ago, progress and become a good RT?

 

Rd 4, pick 105 - Justin Britt, OT Missouri. 6'6" 315lbs. First ever Kent Hull award winner given to the best collegiate OL in the state of Missouri. Um, doesn't this mean he's an absolute must pick for the Bills? Anyway, Long & lean with great bend. Smooth kick/slide.

 

Now we address the TE position. Here's a small schooler, division II player that simply dominates at that level. A TE with WR like stats. Missed a yr due to a previous leg injury that came around to cause some trouble.

 

Rd 5, pick 137 - Joe Don Duncan, TE Dixie St. 6'4" 270lbs. Shattered TE receiving records as a Jr. in 2011, missed 2012 then came back and broke all his own records in 2013. How many TE's catch 71 balls for 1045 yrds and 13 TD's?

 

Depending on what happens with Byrd, addressing the defensive backfield may make me rethink priority level here, but...

 

Rd 6, pick 169 - Hakeem Smith, SS Louisville. 6' 186Lbs. More apt to break up a pass than to pick it off, but uses his length well in coverage and isn't afraid to come up in run support. Is/was all big east every year he's played.

 

I'm throwing in a RB cuz Freddy isn't getting any younger and CJ will need to prove his big play potential. Though CJ didn't have a bad year, he's coming into his final year of his rookie deal and fell short of the dynamic player moniker he was tabbed with prior to the season.

 

Rd 7, pick 201 - Storm Johnson, RB UCF. 6' 215lbs. Big back with decent speed who was overshadowed by his QB, Bortles. This kid can run...and run...and run.

 

Futures signings

 

IMHO the only one worth discussion right now is our latest signing in Ramses Barden. He's huge, big RZ target who showed a flash, albeit limited to one game before an ACL injury. Interesting player to throw into the WR mix.

 

Coaches

 

No major gripes here...actually, wait a minute...what's up with not firing Crossman? WTF? He's terrible, always has been and shows nothing in the way of making any improvement to a very, very weak unit. I get that he's Marrone's buddy, but C'MON MANNNNN!

 

Fire away!

 

Maybe not flashy, but that would be a good draft - in my opinion.

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It seems like the current consensus among Bills fans is that there are three players in this year's draft that Bills would be stoked to get at 9th overall (I know some people are high on Ebron, but for now let's leave him out of this conversation):

 

Greg Robinson (OT)

Sammy Watkins (WR)

Jake Matthews (OT)

 

Most media draft experts expect three quarterbacks, and two elite pass-rushing talents to go before the Bills pick:

 

Teddy Bridgewater (QB)

Jadeveon Clowney (DE)

Johnny Manziel (QB)

Blake Bortles (QB)

Anthony Barr (OLB)

 

In total this amounts to eight ("blue-chip") prospects, meaning that if the Bills drafted at eighth overall, they would be guaranteed to land one of the Robinson-Watkins-Matthews trio. Instead, the Bills draft at ninth overall, which means that at least one other prospect must be drafted before the Buffalo is on the clock if the Bills can hope to land Robinson, Watkins, or Matthews. Among the potential prospects to be drafted at eight or before are:

 

Khalil Mack

Derek Carr (in a reach by a quarterback needy team like MIN)

Timmy Jernigan

 

So as a Bills fan, root for these guys to climb through the pre-draft process. If all of the top eight are drafted one thru eight, then there are two options:

 

(1) drafting Ebron, Lewan, Evans, or Mack if Whaley feels good about one of those guys.

(2) trading down to take Zach Martin, Morgan Moses, Marquise Lee, or Eric Ebron if he falls

 

I think there is an excellent chance that Mack goes in the top 8...And don't discount the possibility of Dennard sneaking in there...He'll likely be the top rated CB in this Draft and may become a factor if a team in the top 8 gets desperate for a cover CB...

 

I also think there is an excellent chance the Bills trade down with Evans, Ebron, or Benjamin being the eventual target...

 

I doubt very highly Marquise Lee is on the Bills radar...I think they're looking for a bigger receiver with the only possible exception being Watkins because he's an absolute freak athletically... B-)

Edited by KOKBILLS
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OK, we're all pretty much on the same page with what this team needs positionally, that being OT, OG, LB, WR, TE...throw in RB's (FJ not gettn any younger) and some DB's (can never have too many)

 

Continuing the discussion, what do we do @ 9? Who's your top 5 targets in each round & where do you take them?...Give some names and the spot you think they'll be avaialable. Forget the top 5 of each position as the variance will only sway slightly given the combine and pro day workouts.

 

For me, I don't necessarily believe we're at the point where we can afford to go BPA..so at this point, I try hard to trade back, as hard as it would be to pass up Watkins if he's still there.

 

Round 1 - Top 5

Zach Martin, OT - N.D. (can be had outside the top 15, and will be our starting LG)

Taylor Lewan, OT - Michigan (can be had outside the top 15 and will be our starting RT)

Kahlil Mack - OLB, Buffalo (pick 9, if available)

Sammy Watkins, WR - Clemson (pick 9, if available)

ASJ, TE - UCLA (I have him better then Ebron and Amaro, but still can be had outside the top 20, maybe even @ 9 in round 2)

 

Round 2 - Top 5 (hopefully we end up with 2 picks)

ASJ, TE - UCLA (if he makes it past NE, good chance he'll fall to us)

Donte Moncrief, WR - Miss (IMHO, he's the #2 WR in this years draft)

Morgan Moses, OT - Virginia

Kelvin Benjamin, WR, FL. State (can't believe he's rated the #4 WR, I think he's better then Evans and Lee)

Jackson Jeffcoat, DE - TX

 

Round 3 - Top 5 (again, hopefully we end up with 2 selections depending on how far back we trade in rd 1)

Donte Moncrief, WR - Miss (if others don't buy iunto this kid like me, good chance he's still around for us to scoop up)

Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB - GA Tech

C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE - Iowa

Cyril Richardson, OG - Baylor (bumped down with hopes of landing an OG earlier)

Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB - Nebraska

 

Round 4 - Top 5 (may end up with 2 selections, depending on rd 1 trade down)

Will Clarke, DE - WV

Shane Skov, ILB - Stanford

Christian Jones, ILB - FL State

Daniel McCullers, DT - TN

Billy Turner, OT - N.D. State (bumped down with hopes of landing an OT earlier)

 

Round 5 - Top 5

Crocket Gillmore, TE - Colorado

Max Bullough, ILB - MI State

Preston Brown, ILB - Louisville

Vinnie Sunsieri, SS - Alabama

Joe Don Duncan, TE - Dixie St

 

Round 6 - Top 5

Hakeem Smith, SS - Louisville

Ethan Westbrooks, DE - W TX A&M

Tyler Gaffney, RB - Stanford

Storm Johnson, RB - UCF

Cody Hoffman, WR - BYU

 

Round 7 - Top 5

Logan Thomas, QB - VA Tech (move to TE)

Colt Lyerla, TE - Oregon (Head case, but talented)

Andrew Jackson, ILB - Western KY (fire plug)

Zack Kerr, DT - Deleware (concrete traffic barrier)

L'Damian Washington, WR - Mizzou (tall, skinny & fast as lightnin)

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