BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Usually things are a lot more polarizing when it comes to football discussions but not when it comes to Crossmans special teams. It's pretty unanimous and yet our headcoach is in that 1% category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm generally about having patience, but I agree! Canning Crossman would have been a big statement to everyone about accountability! Our Special Teams have slid from among the most feared in the league to pretty much a joke... Â Accountability doesn't necessarily mean that everyone that doesn't perform loses their job...it can also mean that areas need to be improved from year-to-year or else. Â But Chris Bown and Kyle Williams said there'd be major changes made. Guess not. Ssdd. Â Is it really fair to assume all the changes have been made 1 week into the off-season? Â Well, people will not want to hear it, but you're right. This team was devoid of good special teamers. Easley showed flashes. But there was no consistency. Corey McIntyre was in on virtually every ST tackle and he left with no replacement. Â I am less concerned with the coach than the talent, but I hope his leash is considerably shorter. Â That is an excellent point that I hadn't thought about. Â Marrone talks about core players on special teams but wasn't this the same core of players that ranked top 10 last year? Â No, guys like McIntyre, Ruvell Martin, and Chris White were pretty solid special teams cogs. Â Marrone is sounding more and more like Greggo everyday. Â I see almost no similarity between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Danny Crossman's Special Teams pre-game visual aide tool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am not surprised he didn't fire him. "Accountability" and "big changes" are not isolated to one coaching decision. Of course all the fans want him gone... the ST was not good in several cases this season. If there was a stack rank of assistants, he would be toward the bottom. However, these decisions are made with a lot more info than we'll ever have. If Marrone loses his job because of it, he made the decision HE thought was right. That's pretty much all he can do. If it leads to him getting fired, that's the chance he takes. He wants to win, he is making the decisions that it takes to do that. This is a business, I don't think he is keeping him because they played or coached together. He has shown to be pretty swift with making changes in personnel that he thinks are not working or going to work in the future. He feels they need better players before judging the coach, so if they make the adds/changes to the unit and the same thing happens next year, he may pull the trigger then. Â im just not sure how many bad seasons a coach can turn in before he gets labeled a bad coach. after a decade and 3 teams - does pointing at the players actually start to come back to you for consistently either A) not having them prepared or B) not being able to advocate properly for what you need/not be able to identify talent to fill the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 im just not sure how many bad seasons a coach can turn in before he gets labeled a bad coach. after a decade and 3 teams - does pointing at the players actually start to come back to you for consistently either A) not having them prepared or B) not being able to advocate properly for what you need/not be able to identify talent to fill the holes. Not sure either... we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Coaches don't tackle. Players do. I enjoy alot of what you say, this not so much. ST coaching is huge. Players have to be put in the right scheme to succeed. Discipline in the unit is also set by the ST coach. This is the type of move that sinks a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 That's a head scratcher for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Is it really fair to assume all the changes have been made 1 week into the off-season? No. Â Although this non-move has a lot of us puzzled, especially after all the "Accountability" talk. Â I'm all for giving Marrone a chance to succeed. I just hope he has something planned that will surprise us all in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Coaches don't tackle. Players do. This was my initial response as well because I do recall players being in position to make the play on some of those long returns and not getting it done. Part of the problem was missed tackles but a big part of it as well was being undisciplined…not staying in lanes, keeping contain etc. Those appeared to be constant problems that never got corrected, which in my opinion falls on the coach. One of the things that really stood out to me on how much worse our ST were this past season was Leodis’ drastic drop off as a punt returner.  2012 – 23 returns for 431 yards (18.7 average) and 2 TDs. Long of 88 with 7 – 20+ yard returns. 2013 – 32 returns for 180 yards (5.6 average) and 0 TDs. Long of only 21, which was his only 20+ yard return.  The fact that he didn’t equal his 2012 output is understandable because those are some great numbers but how does a dynamic return man fall off that much? He got more return opportunities yet didn’t even come close to getting half of the yardage or big plays. I’ve got to think coaching or lack thereof played a major role in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But Chris Bown and Kyle Williams said there'd be major changes made. Guess not. Ssdd. Maybe he is putting the TVs back in the weight room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just so we're all on the same page, here's how Danny Crossman's Special Teams units have ranked (according to Football Outsiders) since his first year at the post, 2005:  2005 - Carolina - 5th 2006 - Carolina - 24th 2007 - Carolina - 30th 2008 - Carolina - 10th 2009 - Carolina - 29th 2010 - Detroit - 11th 2011 - Detroit - 29th 2012 - Detroit - 30th 2013 - Buffalo - 30th  It's like a complete mystery. Maybe he just needs a certain profile of player to put together a solid unit? I don't know... Average of 23 , says enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 This was my initial response as well because I do recall players being in position to make the play on some of those long returns and not getting it done. Part of the problem was missed tackles but a big part of it as well was being undisciplined…not staying in lanes, keeping contain etc. Those appeared to be constant problems that never got corrected, which in my opinion falls on the coach. One of the things that really stood out to me on how much worse our ST were this past season was Leodis’ drastic drop off as a punt returner.  2012 – 23 returns for 431 yards (18.7 average) and 2 TDs. Long of 88 with 7 – 20+ yard returns. 2013 – 32 returns for 180 yards (5.6 average) and 0 TDs. Long of only 21, which was his only 20+ yard return.  The fact that he didn’t equal his 2012 output is understandable because those are some great numbers but how does a dynamic return man fall off that much? He got more return opportunities yet didn’t even come close to getting half of the yardage or big plays. I’ve got to think coaching or lack thereof played a major role in that. This and the fact that we had the fastest guy in the NFL back there on KR for the majority of the season and no impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The major reason Wade was fired was his stubborn insistence on keeping Ronnie Jones. Some have advanced the theory that he did so because he wanted to be fired so he could get the fugowie out of a bad Buffalo situation while collecting the balance of his contract. Ralph's failed attempt to stiff him on that was based on the Jones situation so maybe there's some truth there. Foolishly keeping a proven loser in Crossman puts Marrone on the path to head coach failure. Is it possible he's already seen the handwriting on the wall with this incompetent franchise and he's hoping he too can be fired while banking a bunch of Ralph's money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) No. Â Although this non-move has a lot of us puzzled, especially after all the "Accountability" talk. Â I'm all for giving Marrone a chance to succeed. I just hope he has something planned that will surprise us all in a good way. Â Isn't another famous line from Marrone "Don't confuse effort with results"? Â This deep history of Crossmans special teams results speaks for themself. Â What Marrone says rings hollow. Edited January 6, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Assuming he continues to be the ST Coach, I just lost a lot of respect for Marrone. Come up with all the B.S. excuses you want, but when you preach accountability and then fail to act accordingly, your integrity takes a big hit. The lack of good to great players as some have posited as a possible reason for the ST's failure could account for some - I repeat SOME - of the lack of effectiveness, but to take a top 10 STs to a near bottom STs is abject failure on the part of the COACH!!! This, does not bode well for the Marrone supporters, of which I *was* one...now, it's put up or shut up when it comes to wins next year and in the meantime, my respect for you went out the back door.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Isn't another famous line from Marrone "Don't confuse effort with results"? Â This deep history of Crossmans special teams results speaks for themself. Â What Marrone says rings hollow. Â Again, I don't think it's reasonable to blast Marrone for not firing a guy after one season. He can absolutely mean everything that he says, and just happen to believe that one season isn't enough time to give a player or a coach. After all, the only change he's made to his staff was Hilliard, and that was reportedly for philosophical differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just so we're all on the same page, here's how Danny Crossman's Special Teams units have ranked (according to Football Outsiders) since his first year at the post, 2005:  2005 - Carolina - 5th 2006 - Carolina - 24th 2007 - Carolina - 30th 2008 - Carolina - 10th 2009 - Carolina - 29th 2010 - Detroit - 11th 2011 - Detroit - 29th 2012 - Detroit - 30th 2013 - Buffalo - 30th  It's like a complete mystery. Maybe he just needs a certain profile of player to put together a solid unit? I don't know...  This is one of those things that makes me wish I had some insider information to understand. What makes top NFL personnel continue to think that Danny Crossman is a good choice for ST coach? I mean, seriously, finishing 29th or 30th, in the bottom 10%, for half of the ten years he's been a coach has to say something. Doesn't it?  What's also interesting is looking at what happened to those teams' units once he left. Carolina in 2010 improved to 22nd. Detroit in 2013 improved to 20th. Not great, but improved once he left.  Maybe nobody wants to coach special teams or something. I can't explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Again, I don't think it's reasonable to blast Marrone for not firing a guy after one season. He can absolutely mean everything that he says, and just happen to believe that one season isn't enough time to give a player or a coach. After all, the only change he's made to his staff was Hilliard, and that was reportedly for philosophical differences. I am not sure whether to be alarmed that Crossman's results haven't gotten him fired, or that Crossman's philosophy, whatever it is, seems to align with Marrone's. Â This is one of those things that makes me wish I had some insider information to understand. What makes top NFL personnel continue to think that Danny Crossman is a good choice for ST coach? I mean, seriously, finishing 29th or 30th, in the bottom 10%, for half of the ten years he's been a coach has to say something. Doesn't it? Â What's also interesting is looking at what happened to those teams' units once he left. Carolina in 2010 improved to 22nd. Detroit in 2013 improved to 20th. Not great, but improved once he left. Â Maybe nobody wants to coach special teams or something. I can't explain it. Right. You can look at a year of data and say "that's not enough to go on." I don't know how you can look at this record and explain it away. A QB or a RB doesn't get away with ten years of averaging 23rd best. They don't even get 4 seasons of that kind of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Bills Backer Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 After 14 years of not making the playoffs and 6 straight years of finishing last in the AFC East I think us fans have the right to blast any and all moves by the coaching staff and FO. Everything Marrone says going forward at least for me is going to be hard to believe after all the accountability he preached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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