BuffaloBill Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Not to make a mountain, but shouldn't those standards apply to ALL posters? Yes, but people have gotten particularly crazy with journalists on the site. John is more than capable of responding to respectfully articulated debate focused on his ideas or opinions. To your point, he nor others, should have to put up with personal badgering or attacks of his profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The question IMO is whether he has warranted enough to go into next season without competition from another potential franchise QB. My feeling is absolutely not. And if having a Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr or similar prospect come in knocks EJ off his game then EJ wasn't the QB we were looking for anyway. To me, EJ has the look of a guy who might need a lot of time in the league. He has real potential, but real problems that extend beyond the category of just needing the game to "slow down" for him. Among them is that he is all arms and legs.....he has the wingspan of an 7' tall man.....and repeating a motion is a struggle for him in the same way it was a struggle for Randy Johnson who took until he was 30 years old to be able to throw the ball where he wanted to from the mound. whether or not it's warranted is almost immaterial here. it takes more than one season to develop a quarterback and this offseason is crucial to EJ. like it or not, good teams -- teams that show patience and don't bend to kneejerk whims -- give their quarterback a season and a few months to show what they can do. that's what the Bills evidently signed up for, and that's what teams should do. that's my opinion. now, if there's a can't miss guy at the top of the draft when it comes the Bills time to pick, that is completely up for debate. i'd hate to be the person making that decision. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Yes, but people have gotten particularly crazy with journalists on the site. John is more than capable of responding to respectfully articulated debate focused on his ideas or opinions. To your point, he nor others, should have to put up with personal badgering or attacks of his profession. Thanks...admittedly it was a loaded question, so I'm appreciative of the reminder to everyone (including myself--we're all guilty of it sometimes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 No more ridiculous then the spewing of how he is a bust and hasnt even finished his first year..... by the way.....in case you cant figure it out....being a ROOKIE and being "green" are the same damn thing.....Duh? And yes...injuries are a valid excuse because he was starting to really come on when he got hurt in that Cleveland game.....then went down....then came back in....and now he is up and down. Confidence is a big thing to a QB. There is EASILY enough to excuse up and down play from a rookie QB....and that is before you factor in injuries, injuries to his receivers, and veteran players not doing THEIR jobs around him. You just put yourself on even ground with those claiming he's a bust already. You're just taking the opposite extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 been too long since i was adding to this board, and there was nothing personal or ulterior behind it. simply, was way too busy. that said, i gotta run. happy qveching ... jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 whether or not it's warranted is almost immaterial here. it takes more than one season to develop a quarterback and this offseason is crucial to EJ. like it or not, good teams -- teams that show patience and don't bend to kneejerk whims -- give their quarterback a season and a few months to show what they can do. that's what the Bills evidently signed up for, and that's what teams should do. that's my opinion. now, if there's a can't miss guy at the top of the draft when it comes the Bills time to pick, that is completely up for debate. i'd hate to be the person making that decision. jw I think the Bills signed up for this but my guess is Marrone is not going to hitch his career to EJ for too long (meaning if he is beaten out in 2014 training camp then so be it). Marrone feels the pressure to win, NOW, and he knows what a bonifide NFL QB looks like. He saw it first hand with Brees. In my opinion, EJ has a very similar feel to Jason Campbell. I live in DC so I saw him drafted 25th overall in 2005 and he came in with big expectations. Campbell like EJ has athleticism for a big man, big hands and a strong arm. For all his athletic talent though, he was kind of clumsy in the pocket (still is) and could never use his speed to his advantage. I think Campbell is playing his best football now but he's already in his 8th year and has never really WOWed anyone. It's early but i see EJ in a similar way right now. Too early to give up on EJ but he definitely cannot stink up the joint in road games at JAX and NE. Those defenses are not world beaters. Campbell just threw for a ton of yards against NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 whether or not it's warranted is almost immaterial here. it takes more than one season to develop a quarterback and this offseason is crucial to EJ. like it or not, good teams -- teams that show patience and don't bend to kneejerk whims -- give their quarterback a season and a few months to show what they can do. that's what the Bills evidently signed up for, and that's what teams should do. that's my opinion. now, if there's a can't miss guy at the top of the draft when it comes the Bills time to pick, that is completely up for debate. i'd hate to be the person making that decision. jw Agreed on all counts. Whether or not you agree with the decision, that is probably what the Bills signed up for when they went in, and knew it. I doubt they thought EJM was ready, as they went and got a vet (injury prone, no doubt). Those plans went awry, as we know. These things take awhile to evaluate, and teams rarely go back to the well in the 1st round the very next year. I wouldn't expect the bills to deviste from that trend.. If somehow Teddy Bridgewater was there when the Bills pick, you probably have to take him. Otherwise, expect the middle rounds for a QB as a backup/ competition for EJM as neither Tuel nor Thad inspires much confidence or has much upside for that matter. errr, I meant to type "deviate", but whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 You just put yourself on even ground with those claiming he's a bust already. You're just taking the opposite extreme. Alll I am doing is taking a wait and see approach......that is all Im trying to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Alll I am doing is taking a wait and see approach......that is all Im trying to say All due respect JfH, there's a lot of wait and see approach. The wait part for some here is until there is conclusive evidence a player isn't good enough, then and only then can we declare he's not good. Some fans can have an informed opinion that is objective without a player having 2-3 seasons under their belt. What I'm reading here is some are expressing deep concern considering what they observe on the field and EJM's miniscule YPA (lower than Trentative and Fitz) along with a poor completion percentage. I get that some fans want to wait until the bitter end before declaring a player bad, but it's OK to do a running evaluation. And right now, EJM hasn't shown much improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The first 14 years of my life the Bills were great! The past 14 years of my life the Bills have been HORRENDOUSLY DREADFUL! Well, here's to a new era of 14 years of getting great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Averaging 200 yards a game, otherwise you had me. Granted its dropped a bit from that but tebows career avg is like 65 yards per game or so. EJs at least double. Tebow averaged well over 200 in starts his rookie season. And won a playoff game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STC Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'd feel a lot more secure about EJ if he was picked by a group with a track record. The pick was a reach in the first round and everyone knew it. The Bills' brain trust thought they were smarter than everyone else and valued him way more than the rest of the league did. If we were the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, etc., I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in that situation. Those teams have earned the trust of the their fans and have developed a reputation for finding players who can win. But this franchise is completely inept and this new era isn't all that new. Brandon has been around since the 90's and Whaley has already been here under a failed GM (I don't care what anyone says - Nix is a failed GM based on his record). Add in a rookie HC and a rookie OC. All that said, why should I have any faith in anything these guys do? What business do they have reaching on anyone right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Alll I am doing is taking a wait and see approach......that is all Im trying to say Remember at the beginning of the season when almost everyone on here agreed that EJ Manuel was a raw talent who would need at least a year to start showing the signs of becoming a "franchise QB"? Obviously, dealing with it is another matter entirely...lol He's had a couple very good starts a few very bad starts and showed little flashes here and there of performing under pressure. IMO Manuel does his best QBing when the game is tight in the last 2 ins of games. That started in preseason and has been a factor in two of his regular season games. So IMO, that smart, accurate, "franchise QB" is in there somewhere. He just needs to somehow learn to stop over-thinking and play that way for a full 60 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 When it is 3rd and 7, who is the primary target for EJ. Stevie "droppies" Johnson, TJ Graham, "butterfingers Chandler"? The Bills and EJ need to find a #1target either an awesome TE or a BIG Receiver with big strong hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Am I the only one who still believes in him? I believe that next year he will take a huge step forward and we will be in playoff contention. He has the body, leadership, mind, legs and arm to be a great QB. Somewhere along the line at FSU, someone seriously messed up his throwing mechanics. It affects his accuracy, and everyone can see it. But WHEN, not IF, he figures it out, this Bills team is going to be good. Its hard to see now but bright things are ahead, put trust into Marrone, Manuel and Whaley. No. EJ is the Bills QB and we HOPE he turns into the Bills franchise QB. But saying he is that now is not reality. EJ really, really, really needed to sit this year and work hard at his craft. He didn't get the chance and that's on the FO much more than it is on bad luck. Kolb being the only thing between EJ having to start was rediculious. He'll get time to see how much he can improve, but if the FO decides to do its job this offseason there will be some degree of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 When it is 3rd and 7, who is the primary target for EJ. Stevie "droppies" Johnson, TJ Graham, "butterfingers Chandler"? The Bills and EJ need to find a #1target either an awesome TE or a BIG Receiver with big strong hands. It's been demonstrated countless times that at this point EJ doesn't trust his throws yet. This is the beauty of All-22. We get to see the play and the bad passing decisions he's been making. He hesitates throwing the ball to a receiver who's not wide open. That split second hesitation makes a world of difference in the NFL. Compare him to Tuel & Fitz. Those guys found the necessary receivers, but don't have the arm strength to get them the ball. EJ right now appears to be the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It's been demonstrated countless times that at this point EJ doesn't trust his throws yet. This is the beauty of All-22. We get to see the play and the bad passing decisions he's been making. He hesitates throwing the ball to a receiver who's not wide open. That split second hesitation makes a world of difference in the NFL. Compare him to Tuel & Fitz. Those guys found the necessary receivers, but don't have the arm strength to get them the ball. EJ right now appears to be the opposite. So probably missing 2 weeks of training camp & a month of your rookie year probably won't help that right? That's why this is a topic that should be revisited at this time next year. That said, a knock my friend who is a huge FSU fan had on EJ is he is too cautious. I hope that the TB game doesn't discourage him because he had on the last 2 games done well taking shots down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 ...the same damn thing... PLEASE STOP USING PROFANITY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 PLEASE STOP USING PROFANITY! damn, straight. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Am I the only one who still believes in him? I believe that next year he will take a huge step forward and we will be in playoff contention. He has the body, leadership, mind, legs and arm to be a great QB. Somewhere along the line at FSU, someone seriously messed up his throwing mechanics. It affects his accuracy, and everyone can see it. But WHEN, not IF, he figures it out, this Bills team is going to be good. Its hard to see now but bright things are ahead, put trust into Marrone, Manuel and Whaley. No reason for optimism on EJ as he's regressing. Trent Edwards, JP Losman and Ryan Fitzpatrick all had more going for them after their first year. The team is imploding just like they did under Chan and Dick. What a tremendous lack of leadership on all three sides of the ball (O, D and ST). Add to it a coaching staff that is in way over their head and a special teams coach that does not belong in college let alone the pro's. Brandon and Whaley brought in some decent defensive talent but through an incredible lack of effort made a poor offense worse. The D is better but by no means is it a good defense. Our WRs & TEs are the worst group in the league. Hopefully we finish at 4 & 12 and don't screw up a good draft position. We will lose Byrd to FA and have to waste a top draft pick on his replacement and have lost another chance to upgrade this team On Sunday, there was no home team advantage for Tampa as tens of thousands of Bills fan were there but this team was in chaos from the first play. The legend of Kiko is taking some hits as he blew that first tackle and has had several very poor games in a row. Overall it was simply an unprepared and unmotivated team. What a pitiful excuse for a franchise, executive staff, coaching staff and group of players. Edited December 10, 2013 by jumbalaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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