thebandit27 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Watkins fights for balls and outjumps defenders often. More of a raw athlete than either IMO. Unlike some i still like #13 and i like #10 as well but still want to see more weapons for Manuel. 11/23/13: Watkins dominated Maryland with 14 receptions for 163 yards. A week earlier, he caught eight passes for 68 yards and a touchdown against Florida State. The junior played better than the numbers indicate. thats from waltermockdraft.com they have him as 2nd wideout in draft behind Evans of Texas A and M. Oh Watkins is a great player, no doubt. I just found a little disconnect between what you seem to want and the relative mold he seems to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblax16 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 im not even sold that EJ is any good long yet to be honest, but nonetheless i think that with all things considered the Bills franchise right now has an overall better QB situation than: Jets Browns Raiders Titans Jaguars Texans Vikings and perhaps even Dolphins Bengals Buccaneers Redskins 49ers Cardinals Rams but we are still clearly behind Patriots Ravens Steelers Broncos Chiefs Chargers Colts Saints Panthers Falcons Lions Bears Packers Cowboys Eagles Giants Seahawks Agree I'd move the Eagles in the middle category, and inclined to put Cheifs there. They are good, but it's not due to the QB. Alex Smith isn't definitely better then EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Here's a slight tweak on your rankings that gets at the big picture, which is how far are the Bills from ending the playoff drought with this QB. I'm looking strictly at the AFC. You can argue with my ranking, but I think the general point will be obvious. 1. Manning 2. Brady (these two are in a class by themselves and are coasting into the playoffs every year). 3. Rivers 4. Roethlisberger 5. Flacco 6. Luck (certainly at least two of these QBs will go to the playoffs this year). 7. Alex Smith 8. Dalton (game managers that can be non-threatening playoff teams if supported by exceptional offenses and defenses Teams 9-16 will not go to the playoffs unless something remarkable happens. 9. Ryan Tannehill 10. Fitzpatrick (hard to grade Locker, he may be as high as 7 and TN may have headed to the postseason) 11. EJ Manuel 12. Keenum/Schaub 13. McGloin/Pryor 14. Henne 15. Campbell 16. Geno Smith For Bills fans, the question is really, what is EJ's ceiling. I don't think you can go to the playoffs without a QB that is in the top half of the conference. It already appears that EJ is a low turnover guy. With seasoning he could develop into Alex Smith or David Garrard (in his prime) and if the Bills maintained a strong defense they would become a likely 9-10 win team and would break the playoff drought without becoming a real championship threat. If EJ becomes a top 6 level QB the Bills will start qualifying for the playoffs almost every year, and could develop into a serious contender. I'll also point out that none of the top 8 have suffered an injury this year, while the teams represented from 10-15 have all been forced to play backups because of injury. Edited December 6, 2013 by Flip Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The top two ain't going to go on forever though are they..... and how many years have San Diego missed the play-offs now regardless of Rivers? I also think the gap between Smith and Dalton and the guys 9/10/11 isn't that great (a year ago you'd have had Schaub in that company for example). But I agree with your general premise which is, I think, that there might be the odd year where a team comes from nowhere with a bottom half of the conference Quarterback, but in general to be a consistent play-off calibre team you need a top half of the conference guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 You think Brian Hoyer is better than EJ? Here's what I posted: I don't know if I put us ahead of Cleveland. Brian Hoyer looked pretty good before the injury. I'd put us more even with them, not sure about either starting qb but clear potential. How does that turn into "Brian Hoyer is better than EJ"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Way not to respond to anything that was posted. You're awful. Good bye. Keenum who just got benched against the Jags??? And the best thing that SF has is the best QB teacher in the game. Kaepernick has shown more than EJ but he also plays for the same offensive coach in the NFL. He hasn't exactly been lighting it up this year. Don't know what the bolded part means. And yes, this Case Keenum. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000293357/article/case-keenum-to-remain-houston-texans-starting-qb. Looks like benching Keenum is one reason Kubiak got canned. The owner of the team makes it clear who his QB is going forward. GIve him time and I could see him being a solid passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Strongly disagree on Titans. Locker has played pretty well this year, if he can stay healthy, I think he's bordering on "franchise" status. They're a playoff team with him. Texans are now solid leaders for Bridgewater, they're ahead too. Dolphins and Bucs are close, but I hate Tannehill more than most. Glennon has been a little better than Manuel this year, but I don't know about him long term either. For me, Manuel is in the Fitzpatrick zone. ~20th starting QB overall. Limited in their own ways. I have a hard time seeing EJ get significantly better to championship winning QB level. He's just not accurate enough. Bad, bad place to be in since it seems like the Bills are forcing him as the face of the franchise. Locker and EJ have nearly identical stats...EJ has thrown one more TD than Locker, Locker ran for one more TD than Manuel, both have 4 picks and Locker's completion percentage is about 2.5% higher, which based on the number of passes is about 4 or 5 more completions Here's a slight tweak on your rankings that gets at the big picture, which is how far are the Bills from ending the playoff drought with this QB. I'm looking strictly at the AFC. You can argue with my ranking, but I think the general point will be obvious. 1. Manning 2. Brady (these two are in a class by themselves and are coasting into the playoffs every year). 3. Rivers 4. Roethlisberger 5. Flacco 6. Luck (certainly at least two of these QBs will go to the playoffs this year). 7. Alex Smith 8. Dalton (game managers that can be non-threatening playoff teams if supported by exceptional offenses and defenses Teams 9-16 will not go to the playoffs unless something remarkable happens. 9. Ryan Tannehill 10. Fitzpatrick (hard to grade Locker, he may be as high as 7 and TN may have headed to the postseason) 11. EJ Manuel 12. Keenum/Schaub 13. McGloin/Pryor 14. Henne 15. Campbell 16. Geno Smith For Bills fans, the question is really, what is EJ's ceiling. I don't think you can go to the playoffs without a QB that is in the top half of the conference. It already appears that EJ is a low turnover guy. With seasoning he could develop into Alex Smith or David Garrard (in his prime) and if the Bills maintained a strong defense they would become a likely 9-10 win team and would break the playoff drought without becoming a real championship threat. If EJ becomes a top 6 level QB the Bills will start qualifying for the playoffs almost every year, and could develop into a serious contender. I'll also point out that none of the top 8 have suffered an injury this year, while the teams represented from 10-15 have all been forced to play backups because of injury. Geno Smith 16?? He has imploded the past month and got yanked then benched Edited December 6, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Here's a slight tweak on your rankings that gets at the big picture, which is how far are the Bills from ending the playoff drought with this QB. I'm looking strictly at the AFC. You can argue with my ranking, but I think the general point will be obvious. 1. Manning 2. Brady (these two are in a class by themselves and are coasting into the playoffs every year). 3. Rivers 4. Roethlisberger 5. Flacco 6. Luck (certainly at least two of these QBs will go to the playoffs this year). 7. Alex Smith 8. Dalton (game managers that can be non-threatening playoff teams if supported by exceptional offenses and defenses Teams 9-16 will not go to the playoffs unless something remarkable happens. 9. Ryan Tannehill 10. Fitzpatrick (hard to grade Locker, he may be as high as 7 and TN may have headed to the postseason) 11. EJ Manuel 12. Keenum/Schaub 13. McGloin/Pryor 14. Henne 15. Campbell 16. Geno Smith For Bills fans, the question is really, what is EJ's ceiling. I don't think you can go to the playoffs without a QB that is in the top half of the conference. It already appears that EJ is a low turnover guy. With seasoning he could develop into Alex Smith or David Garrard (in his prime) and if the Bills maintained a strong defense they would become a likely 9-10 win team and would break the playoff drought without becoming a real championship threat. If EJ becomes a top 6 level QB the Bills will start qualifying for the playoffs almost every year, and could develop into a serious contender. I'll also point out that none of the top 8 have suffered an injury this year, while the teams represented from 10-15 have all been forced to play backups because of injury. Eli Manning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) And it's only, what, his seventh year in the league? So. he's good now which is all that matters. Edited December 7, 2013 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikademus Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Eli Manning? He's only looking at the AFC with his comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Can you prove we'd be 9-3 with him? Because I can play this fantasy game too. Watch.... With Alex Smith we'd 1-11. Can you prove that your posts are not senseless drivel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Strongly disagree on Titans. Locker has played pretty well this year, if he can stay healthy, I think he's bordering on "franchise" status. They're a playoff team with him. Texans are now solid leaders for Bridgewater, they're ahead too. Dolphins and Bucs are close, but I hate Tannehill more than most. Glennon has been a little better than Manuel this year, but I don't know about him long term either. For me, Manuel is in the Fitzpatrick zone. ~20th starting QB overall. Limited in their own ways. I have a hard time seeing EJ get significantly better to championship winning QB level. He's just not accurate enough. Bad, bad place to be in since it seems like the Bills are forcing him as the face of the franchise. Didn't you just suggest that Locker might be great? Go check Locker's passing stats in college and pros and tell me he was/is more accurate than Manuel. QBs generally do raise their completion % after their rookie year. Also, remember that Manuel is also throwing (mostly) to rookie WRs who may not always be in the right spot. Give them some time to develop chemistry. We would all have liked EJ to have walked in and been a polished finished product, but that was an unrealistic wish. Sure, he needs to improve - what young QBs don't? In my view, he has played better than I expected and I am encouraged that he may be a long term good NFL starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Locker and EJ have nearly identical stats...EJ has thrown one more TD than Locker, Locker ran for one more TD than Manuel, both have 4 picks and Locker's completion percentage is about 2.5% higher, which based on the number of passes is about 4 or 5 more completions Geno Smith 16?? He has imploded the past month and got yanked then benched He saiid " strictly AFC". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 He saiid " strictly AFC". Really, if he didn't catch that part and geno was the only part that stood out, there are a variety of questions id have for him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So. he's good now which is all that matters. Is he good ? Or is he Trent Dilfer 2.0 ? When kc's defense dominates they win...when they don't they lose because Alex Smith sucks. 3 losses last 4 weeks with D getting tired ? Hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Didn't you just suggest that Locker might be great? Go check Locker's passing stats in college and pros and tell me he was/is more accurate than Manuel. QBs generally do raise their completion % after their rookie year. Also, remember that Manuel is also throwing (mostly) to rookie WRs who may not always be in the right spot. Give them some time to develop chemistry. We would all have liked EJ to have walked in and been a polished finished product, but that was an unrealistic wish. Sure, he needs to improve - what young QBs don't? In my view, he has played better than I expected and I am encouraged that he may be a long term good NFL starter. You are wasting key strokes. There are people on this site that for some inexplicable reason are rooting for Manuel to fail just so they can be right. Of course odds are in your favor when predicting failure in an NFL QB. Remember all the "injury prone" posts after Manuel injured his knee? If Manuel is injury prone then what is Locker? Locker's completion percentage is 57.3. Locker is "boarding on "franchise" status" and Manuel is a bust, mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 You are wasting key strokes. There are people on this site that for some inexplicable reason are rooting for Manuel to fail just so they can be right. Of course odds are in your favor when predicting failure in an NFL QB. Remember all the "injury prone" posts after Manuel injured his knee? If Manuel is injury prone then what is Locker? Locker's completion percentage is 57.3. Locker is "boarding on "franchise" status" and Manuel is a bust, mind boggling. You are right, I just couldn't resist responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Love the idea of an unquestionably experienced vet as a backup/camp challenger.....Schaub would be a tremendous pickup for exactly that. Schaub needs a fresh start, the rest of the team needs QB insurance in case of injury, and EJ could use some mentoring. Not sure what his contract looks like - that could be a deal breaker. Not sure if Schaub is willing to be a backup at this stage of his career - but he may have to with the year he has put in. Schuab was an excellent QB, just as early as last season. I'm not sure why he has stunk it up so much this year, but he's a starter if he can get back to where he was. In fact, Schuab is 1-2 years ago is better than EJ now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So. he's good now which is all that matters. So... maybe the guy we have will be more than a game manager in 7 years? Is it that hard to connect the dots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Strongly disagree on Titans. Locker has played pretty well this year, if he can stay healthy, I think he's bordering on "franchise" status. They're a playoff team with him. Texans are now solid leaders for Bridgewater, they're ahead too. Dolphins and Bucs are close, but I hate Tannehill more than most. Glennon has been a little better than Manuel this year, but I don't know about him long term either. For me, Manuel is in the Fitzpatrick zone. ~20th starting QB overall. Limited in their own ways. I have a hard time seeing EJ get significantly better to championship winning QB level. He's just not accurate enough. Bad, bad place to be in since it seems like the Bills are forcing him as the face of the franchise. First off, EJ Manual is a rookie. In his FOURTH year as a pro, Fitzpatrick was well entrenched in the bottom 3rd of the league's starting QBs. Yet, even with EJ Manual being a rookie QB he has... …shown the ability to make big plays with the game on the line (Panthers and Atlanta) …been mature beyond his years and steady leader for the team …thrown only a small number of interceptions …shown the ability to hit the deep ball at RWS in windy conditions …can make first downs on 3rd/4th and a yard …knows exactly what to say and refuses to throw anyone under the bus …shown to be a very teachable player who's right on schedule with his development to becoming a true top 10 NFL QB within a few years Edited December 7, 2013 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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