26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 EJ is an unknown quantity. Let's let him get this season under his belt before we come to any conclusions. He stunk up the place yesterday...but he's had some good games before his injury. He ain't in the running for OROY but this is a "training" year for him. I can't imagine that we will finish in a position to be part of the Manziel sweepstakes, but we'll just have to see whether EJ is going to demonstrate skills enough to get us to the playoffs next year. Manziel sweepstakes? Is he a high caliber prospect on the level of Andrew Luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Good to offer some real perspective in a sea of outrageous overreaction after a bad rookie QB performance. Yes, very good. 90% of what is posted here in the next few days will be outrageous overreaction. More time for other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Manziel sweepstakes? Is he a high caliber prospect on the level of Andrew Luck? Get back to me at the end of the season. He performs well enough to get a second Heisman and I suspect he'll be the first round pick overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Get back to me at the end of the season. He performs well enough to get a second Heisman and I suspect he'll be the first round pick overall. With his offseason antics I doubt he'll win the Heisman and I know that, regardless of that, he will not be the 1st player picked in next year's draft. May not even be a 1st round pick at all. Heard Chris Brown talking about Cam Newton's 1st six games of his NFL career in comparison to EJ. Take a look: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2011 Edited November 11, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 With his offseason antics I doubt he'll win the Heisman and I know that, regardless of that, he will not be the 1st player picked in next year's draft. May not even be a 1st round pick at all. Maybe so but if the Bills pass on him (certainly if they pass on him in the 2nd) they better hope they don't miss w/ whoever they pick. Better to miss w/ Johnny than someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Heard Chris Brown talking about Cam Newton's 1st six games of his NFL career in comparison to EJ. Take a look: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2011 What is the comparison? Newton had 2 games with over 400 yards, 1 game with nearly 375 and 3 average days. He had more picks but that is because he doesn't check down like EJ has. EJ has yet to put up a 300 yard game. Also Newton put up more TDs in those 6 games than EJ has and EJ arguably has a better cast to work with than Newton had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Manuel was a 1st round pick. Compare him to other first round picks to be fair. Or how about 2nd or 3rd round picks? Comparing him to two undrafted players with as many career starts combined as Manuel is not a fair comparison. Don't compare him with Case Keenum in Houston...dude was a UDFA and is lighting it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 That's kind of the point. You have seen EJ face NFL competition. I'd start Manziel too. lol, so true Only way to get honest answers to your question though is to strap people to lie detectors, point a gun at their heads, and tell them that a lie means death. We'd get 100% "I'd start Manziel" answers at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) There are gonna be a lot of good QBs out there this year, at least four or five in the first round... Bridgewater, Manziel, Boyd off the top of my head...know I am missing some, but its a very strong QB draft... I wouldn't hesitate to take another QB...there is no other single player that can have a bigger impact on wins and losses on a regular basis than a QB...if they have to draft one every year for four or five years then do it til you get it right... My concern is that EJ seems to be getting worse, not better. His first two games were his best two games, not an encouraging sign... Edited November 11, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 When I watch EJ play, it blows my mind that professional football coaches and talent scouts look at what I'm looking at and see someone they think can be the franchise. I see and awkward and stiff guy with little fluidity, who doesn't seem to have a feel for the game, is too timid to make the throws he needs to make, and lacks the accuracy to put the ball there even if he does muster up the courage to pull the trigger. And this isn't an overreaction to a horrid, horrid game. I was suggesting these things last week and getting blasted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 When I watch EJ play, it blows my mind that professional football coaches and talent scouts look at what I'm looking at and see someone they think can be the franchise. I see and awkward and stiff guy with little fluidity, who doesn't seem to have a feel for the game, is too timid to make the throws he needs to make, and lacks the accuracy to put the ball there even if he does muster up the courage to pull the trigger. And this isn't an overreaction to a horrid, horrid game. I was suggesting these things last week and getting blasted for it. were you saying it in april? (ie have you only seen a couple games in a rookie year, or more of the resume) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 42.2 Holy crap! He is the greatest QB in the freaking NFL.... See this is typical Buffalo fans, they forget that little white speck on a pile of chicken crap...is chicken crap. But hey, he is the least crappiest of the QB's we have right? I mean that must account for something! Bottom line its a failed pick By Nix. He doesn't have it, he never should have been taken in the first round period. NONE of the QB's should have and only Buffalo did so. EJ just doesn't have it. He can't read a defense, he can't hit a ball more than 10 yards down field, the kid has zero fire... Look it is what it is, ANOTHER failed QB attempt by Buffalo and it will always be this way until Ralph dies and a new owner comes in and cleans house completely. I mean from Brandon all the way down to the Janitors and starts over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 were you saying it in april? (ie have you only seen a couple games in a rookie year, or more of the resume) I wasn't thrilled with the pick at the time, but I chose to be optimistic. Like I said, he just doesn't pass the eye test. I've said before, if he plays well down the stretch then great. I'll be as happy as anyone if he can get it together and make it more fun to be a Bills fan. Hell, it won't even break my heart to say that my amateur QB scouting analysis sucked. I just don't see it happening. Some QBs make rookie mistakes, but you can see the ability and growth. With EJ I just see a stiff awkward guy who looks really uncomfortable doing what he's doing. 42.2 Holy crap! He is the greatest QB in the freaking NFL.... See this is typical Buffalo fans, they forget that little white speck on a pile of chicken crap...is chicken crap. But hey, he is the least crappiest of the QB's we have right? I mean that must account for something! Bottom line its a failed pick By Nix. He doesn't have it, he never should have been taken in the first round period. NONE of the QB's should have and only Buffalo did so. EJ just doesn't have it. He can't read a defense, he can't hit a ball more than 10 yards down field, the kid has zero fire... Look it is what it is, ANOTHER failed QB attempt by Buffalo and it will always be this way until Ralph dies and a new owner comes in and cleans house completely. I mean from Brandon all the way down to the Janitors and starts over Hey, that's our piece of crap you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) I wasn't thrilled with the pick at the time, but I chose to be optimistic. Like I said, he just doesn't pass the eye test. I've said before, if he plays well down the stretch then great. I'll be as happy as anyone if he can get it together and make it more fun to be a Bills fan. Hell, it won't even break my heart to say that my amateur QB scouting analysis sucked. I just don't see it happening. Some QBs make rookie mistakes, but you can see the ability and growth. With EJ I just see a stiff awkward guy who looks really uncomfortable doing what he's doing. What did you see here? http://www.nfl.com/v...rd-TD-reception http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Buffalo-Bills-quarterback-EJ-Manuel-18-yard-touchdown-pass-to-Robert-Woods/f75ccc6a-a8d3-4ae3-9729-9ba528be5002 Edited November 11, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 When I watch EJ play, it blows my mind that professional football coaches and talent scouts look at what I'm looking at and see someone they think can be the franchise. I see and awkward and stiff guy with little fluidity, who doesn't seem to have a feel for the game, is too timid to make the throws he needs to make, and lacks the accuracy to put the ball there even if he does muster up the courage to pull the trigger. And this isn't an overreaction to a horrid, horrid game. I was suggesting these things last week and getting blasted for it. If there is any upside, it's that all the pundits claimed that Manuel was just clay, which a good coach can mold. Hopefully that's true and what we saw was his rawness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 If there is any upside, it's that all the pundits claimed that Manuel was just clay, which a good coach can mold. Hopefully that's true and what we saw was his rawness. And I think this is what it all comes back to, not what the pundits thoughts were so much but what were fans expectations of Manuel. If you were expecting a Luck type season, then you should prepare to be disappointed. There is a reason he wasn't selected 1st overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 When I watch EJ play, it blows my mind that professional football coaches and talent scouts look at what I'm looking at and see someone they think can be the franchise. I see and awkward and stiff guy with little fluidity, who doesn't seem to have a feel for the game, is too timid to make the throws he needs to make, and lacks the accuracy to put the ball there even if he does muster up the courage to pull the trigger. And this isn't an overreaction to a horrid, horrid game. I was suggesting these things last week and getting blasted for it. It's an overreaction. To suggest that a rookie QB would struggle after missing a month of practice with WR's he's barely thrown to (only one of whom is any kind of an NFL starter) oh, and the game will be on the road against an aging but proud and tough franchise with a superior coaching staff, better QB and a 3-4 zone blitzing defense that this soft team has had trouble with for ages is no revelation. One need not be Nostradamus or a master reader of the tea leaves to have seen this coming. To see the results and say " the inevitable happened, therefore EJ will never be good" is the definition of overreaction! Bills fans have led themselves to believe that somehow this version of the Bills (with many of the same components as previous failures) was somehow different, their losses somehow better. Well, the weaknesses, the soft underbelly, was there in evidence all along. The continued season long struggles in the red zone and short yardage, the unending inability to get off the field on third down defense, screamed that this team is still soft. Soft on the lines, where the big boys roam in the NFL. Where the real game is played, where offenses function or fold, where defenses exert their dominance or wilt under the pressure. EJ was pretty bad, bud the running game was a joke (teams have played stacked fronts all year vs all Bills QB's), the protection vs blitzes was awful, and receivers could not break free. Even if EJ had been sharp, the Bills failed to create any plays vs a physical 3-4 team that has been their Achilles heel for longer than I care to remember. So get ready, Bills fans. Get ready for more of the same because Rex Ryan and the Jets are coming to town. A 3-4 blitzing team that absolutely mauls teams on the LOS. Be prepared for post game cries that Geno Smith was the guy, that EJ is a bust, and how can Geno do it with sub -par skill position guys when the Bills skill position players (overrated) are so superior? Because Rex Ryan knows that 3/4 of the battle to winning football games is blocking and tackling better than the guy in front of you and generally kicking his tail up and down the field. Any RB or WR will do (just about), even with average to sub par QBing (which is what they've gotten from Geno). People have so overrated the Bills shiny toys at the skill positions that they don't notice just how this team just folds the minute they get into a street fight instead of a pickup softball game. Jets 28 Bills 16. And it won't be that close. And it won't mean I can predict the next powerball numbers. Just that I may be a master of the obvious, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Total QBR before this game for each of our QB's. EJ 42.2 Thad 19.1 Tuel 9.6 WOW...how can anyone say EJ was awful prior to injury when his QBR was more than double the next closest guy? You realize that Manuel's QBR is among the worst in the NFL for starting quarterbacks? There are only 4 or 5 guys below him out of 32 teams. I'm not sure how quoting these numbers is proof that EJ was not awful. It sounds like your argument goes like this: Manuel is better than Lewis or Tuel, therefore Manuel is not awful. Unfortunately, I don't need to think back to my logics class to see some flaws in this proof. Edited November 11, 2013 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 What is the comparison? Newton had 2 games with over 400 yards, 1 game with nearly 375 and 3 average days. He had more picks but that is because he doesn't check down like EJ has. EJ has yet to put up a 300 yard game. Also Newton put up more TDs in those 6 games than EJ has and EJ arguably has a better cast to work with than Newton had. A look at another franchise QB’s 1st 6 starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Get back to me at the end of the season. He performs well enough to get a second Heisman and I suspect he'll be the first round pick overall. Im calling it now, Manziel wont be either of the first 2 QB's taken in the draft, and if he doesn't impress at combine, he may not be the 3rd or 4th QB taken. WInning a Heisman is completely worthless come draft day. Many times Heisman winners are mid round grade QB's and some have gone real late or undrafted. What you do in college does not correlate to the next level. Ask Tebow about that, who was considered the best college QB ever by many (and still by many today) and people laughed their ass off when Denver took him in the first round as most had him as a 3rd rounder in what was a weak QB draft. He also was not the first QB taken, nor should he have been and is currently not even in the league after 3 years. So, wont matter if Manziel wins a 2nd heisman in terms of where he is drafted. His game is not one that screams success at the next level. This is not Andrew Luck coming out. I suspect he will be the 3rd or 4th QB taken, especially with his bone head off field stuff adding to it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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