Jonathan Martin AWOL, Incognito suspended

[NoSaint]

So this leaves the jags as the most stable coaching situation in the state of Florida?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

So this leaves the jags as the most stable coaching situation in the state of Florida?

 

OUCH!

[Captain Caveman]

When Lawrence Taylor shouts at a QB "I'm going to rip your head off" is it time for a restraining order?

 

1. There is a difference between on field vs. off field interaction, I think we all get that.

2. These guys are teammates, this is not trash talk.

3. I'm going to rip your head off does not come close to what was said.

 

You're minimizing a serious thing, and the idea that this was in the context of friendship / goofing around seems highly unlikely given the circumstances.

 

More fuel. A lot have already been speculating on this, so it's not too surprising.

 

http://deadspin.com/report-coaches-told-richie-incognito-to-toughen-up-j-1459210109

[8-8 Forever?]

I haven't heard it, but it could easily be read like a WWF wrestler. We don't know enough about their relationship to know how seriously to interpret the comments. They are stupid and immature, no doubt. But I don't know if Martin really felt that Incognito wanted to "s*** down his neck" (or whatever he said), or that Martin REALLY felt RI might KILL him. And if he did, wouldn't he go to the police?

 

When Lawrence Taylor shouts at a QB "I'm going to rip your head off" is it time for a restraining order?

in this day and age? maybe.... ?

[RuntheDamnBall]

in this day and age? maybe.... ?

Since that QB is probably someone in his coke-fueled imagination and is really an underage hooker, most likely yes.

[Doc]

Who ordered the code red?

[dave mcbride]

Check out Rich Gannon's comments in this piece:

 

http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/05/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-bullying-nfl/?sct=nfl_t11_a0 .

 

Former NFL quarterback and current CBS analyst Rich Gannon said this week that he’s seen a wide variance in attitudes on this subject.

 

“I have absolutely no tolerance for this type of behavior. I’ve seen first-hand how this can divide and really destroy a locker room, a team and quite frankly, an entire organization… Early in my career at Minnesota, I remember the older players, there was a culture that existed where they were worried about their jobs. They didn’t reach out and help younger players. I also went to places like Kansas City where Marty Schottenheimer created a culture and environment where none of this existed. Older players reached out to younger players and welcomed them to the organization and were very supportive. Then I went to an organization in Oakland, which quite frankly made me sick. This culture and environment existed out there with older players bullying younger players.”

 

When Gannon went to Oakland in 1999, he had enough veteran equity to change the dynamic.

 

“At one point, I remember coming into the locker room my very first year there, and I saw a group of defensive lineman had our young tight end tied up with tape. They were punching him. They were putting icy-hot and baby powder with water on this guy. They were trying to demoralize the player. I freaked out. I said, ‘I need this guy on Sunday.’ I really thought that I helped to change the culture and the environment in that building … If this exists in your locker room, you have no chance of being successful.”

[boyst]

Check out Rich Gannon's comments in this piece:

 

http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/05/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-bullying-nfl/?sct=nfl_t11_a0 .

 

Former NFL quarterback and current CBS analyst Rich Gannon said this week that he’s seen a wide variance in attitudes on this subject.

 

“I have absolutely no tolerance for this type of behavior. I’ve seen first-hand how this can divide and really destroy a locker room, a team and quite frankly, an entire organization… Early in my career at Minnesota, I remember the older players, there was a culture that existed where they were worried about their jobs. They didn’t reach out and help younger players. I also went to places like Kansas City where Marty Schottenheimer created a culture and environment where none of this existed. Older players reached out to younger players and welcomed them to the organization and were very supportive. Then I went to an organization in Oakland, which quite frankly made me sick. This culture and environment existed out there with older players bullying younger players.”

 

When Gannon went to Oakland in 1999, he had enough veteran equity to change the dynamic.

 

“At one point, I remember coming into the locker room my very first year there, and I saw a group of defensive lineman had our young tight end tied up with tape. They were punching him. They were putting icy-hot and baby powder with water on this guy. They were trying to demoralize the player. I freaked out. I said, ‘I need this guy on Sunday.’ I really thought that I helped to change the culture and the environment in that building … If this exists in your locker room, you have no chance of being successful.”

I don't care for Gannon the player. Nor Gannon the TV broadcaster. Nor Gannon the personality. But when he speaks I listen because I know he speaks the truth. He is generally unbias with his football viewpoints and the general dynamic of the game. Hearing him many times on Sirius I disagree with him but he ALWAYS makes a valid point and he does so with knowledge behind his words. Unlike Collinsworth who talks about his playing days with a contempt toward the new league Gannon brings forth a conversation built on his experience with a conclusion on how it is used and implemented in the current game.

 

In other words, that it is players like him saying this it will ring better then Kawika Mitchell or whoever the Fins player was that supported Incognito. Football is not a game for softies and will never be a game like procrastiball. The toughening up of a player needs to be done in practice and on the field by other players and coaches also doing this in the locker room. Clearly it is becoming evident that Miami's coaching staff was using players to get their points across

[bowery4]

If this wasn't the Dolfhags, I would be sad (unless it was NE*, The Jests or maybe the cowpokes sorry, CGF no offense intended have always hated them, I like you ).

Edited November 6, 2013 by bowery4

[Bufcomments]

First of all I hate the Dolphins that being said....

 

Martin is a grown ass man. He should handle his business. If another man says he gonna blank down your throat then I would invite him to try and do it. Lets go in the parking lot and lets get it on. That would earn him some rep in the locker room.

 

But this is the thing that gets me. I have seen film where him and Incognito sit on the bench next to each other THIS season. If the bullying was that serious, would you sit next to the guy??

 

There is more to this than being reported. I don't think we will ever know all the details. But im so glad its the Dolphins , now they are down two starters on the line that was weak to begin with.

 

You know Mario is thinking imma get 4 sacks against these guys next time we play them.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Oh, God, this just jumped the shark in a major way.

 

I do find the "just defend yourself" crowd disingenuous. You have a recognized and handpicked team leader facing off against a teammate (coincidentally of color). How is that going to play out in the public eye, let alone in the locker room. It's a quick step to "this guy's a thug," etc. Already people are picking on his sexuality, his mental health, his toughness with the player given zero chance to represent himself in public.

 

The better man doesn't engage this kind of idiot. I'm sorry, this isn't a playground, and while, yes, you want to be tough on the field, you shouldn't have to fight your own teammates. Anyone who thinks that makes a better locker room is misguided at best.

 

i, for one, vote that we not hash this out.

Seconded.

[boyst]

 

 

i, for one, vote that we not hash this out.

I'm not hashing it out any further but such ignorance will not be left ignored. There is a thread on PPP for that topic.

[Chewie]

 

GWAGGHHARRAUUUGGGHHRRRRARRRR!

Edited November 6, 2013 by Just Jack

[RuntheDamnBall]

GWAGGHHARRAUUUGGGHHRRRRARRRR!

I know, Chewie. I know.

[Big Turk]

 

 

1. There is a difference between on field vs. off field interaction, I think we all get that.

2. These guys are teammates, this is not trash talk.

3. I'm going to rip your head off does not come close to what was said.

 

You're minimizing a serious thing, and the idea that this was in the context of friendship / goofing around seems highly unlikely given the circumstances.

 

More fuel. A lot have already been speculating on this, so it's not too surprising.

 

http://deadspin.com/report-coaches-told-richie-incognito-to-toughen-up-j-1459210109

 

Yes, also there is no valid condition that allows ANY of that to be legal under workplace law...its irrelevant why it happened or the reason, its still illegal as they will find out tens of millions of dollars later...

[Terry Tate]

Incognito just pawn in game of life.

[GG]

Oh, God, this just jumped the shark in a major way.

 

I do find the "just defend yourself" crowd disingenuous. You have a recognized and handpicked team leader facing off against a teammate (coincidentally of color). How is that going to play out in the public eye, let alone in the locker room. It's a quick step to "this guy's a thug," etc. Already people are picking on his sexuality, his mental health, his toughness with the player given zero chance to represent himself in public.

 

The better man doesn't engage this kind of idiot. I'm sorry, this isn't a playground, and while, yes, you want to be tough on the field, you shouldn't have to fight your own teammates. Anyone who thinks that makes a better locker room is misguided at best.

 

 

Seconded.

 

The thing is, many people who have been in that locker room situation are not fully lining up behind Martin. There's still more positive attitudes from Miami players towards Richie than towards Martin. I know, odd. Here's a guy with first had experience on walking out on the league.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The thing is, many people who have been in that locker room situation are not fully lining up behind Martin. There's still more positive attitudes from Miami players towards Richie than towards Martin. I know, odd. Here's a guy with first had experience on walking out on the league.

And with that I submit that the same staff that selected Incognito as a leader is still in place. How many players are afraid to confront the issue? To add to this, I think that the kinds of players who are going to support Incognito are going to be the more outspoken ones. If Martin didn't want to speak out about this, why would another teammate?

 

Also, in-season, you're probably not going to be that sympathetic to a guy who walked out on you -- even if you think he's right. You still have a paycheck to earn, and you're still in position to fight for the playoffs. I'm sure that doesn't reflect well.

 

Ricky Williams is a guy I'd have wanted on my team, so I just feel differently on the matter. He's an enlightened guy who is probably too smart for the game. Martin may be, too.

[wnysteel]

its an unfortunate situation. but the implosion of the "Fins can only help the Bills.

[Rico]

its an unfortunate situation. but the implosion of the "Fins can only help the Bills.

 

Agreed, couldn't happen to a better team. Glad Incognito is no longer a Bill, VERY glad Martin wasn't drafted here.