leave replacements out of hall of fame (reinduct rush if you have to)

[Philly McButterpants]

And the Sex Pistols go sailing down the Thames again . . . .

[Chef Jim]

don't be too sure of that. i would be greatly disappointed if that happened.

it would go entirely against the grain of everything they stood for and against.

 

Rush reflects the canadian mentality, overjoyed to be recognized. the 'mats have been and remain an entirely contrarian different beast, from pissing off lorne michaels -- another canadian -- to pissing off nearly every record executive during a fall-down-drunk show at CBGBs, to, more recently, Paul wearing a canadiens jersey for the encore in toronto.

 

in the spirit of rock and roll -- and not the spirit of radio, which did more for rush than ever recognizing the 'mats -- a big fat finger in the air is how any potential induction should be greeted.

 

respect? the 'mats have it. they don't need some silly honor in some fancy facade on the shores of lake erie for mere validation.

 

jw

 

So what I'm getting here is that not only does their music suck (IMO) but they're also a bunch of whiny little bitches.

[5 Wide]

"Not selling out to the mainstream" is such a cliche now. Just because you were one of the pioneers of the anti-industry mentality, doesn't mean you're shtick isn't played out. The true genius in any art is in the content and the delivery, not the interpretation and the subsequent honors. Accepting recognition for your work isn't selling out, even if its from people you never intended to influence. Going into the RR HOF along the path they have taken is if anything a bigger honor, as it shows they didn't need to play by the rules to be influential to music lovers. There's a difference between needing validation and simply acknowledging an achievement.

[DC Tom]

All the same arguments many die hard Rush fans (myself included) used as to why Rush should snub the Hall once they got in. In the end when Geddy Lee was asked about the possibility of snubbing the Hall his response was "That's not a very gracious way to respond to an honor".....and he's right. If the Replacements get in, they will attend and be inducted by a band or someone that they respect, play in the jam and enjoy the experience.

 

I've never been a Rush fan (though I just picked up their greatest hits album and 2112 on sale, and I'm realizing that Neil Peart is a goddamned genius). But I've always respected them as some of the best musicians in rock who are far too busy being concerned about their craft to worry about being pretentious divas, who take genuine enjoyment out of what they're doing, and who are a general class act all-around. Lee's quote just confirms that.

[The Poojer]

anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at...

[NoSaint]

anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at...

 

Doesn't mean you want the stroking from anyone and everyone. Sometimes it just means so much more coming from someone you respect and if, for example here, they don't respect the opinion of the rrhof then it may be more insulting than stroking

[Buftex]

don't be too sure of that. i would be greatly disappointed if that happened.

it would go entirely against the grain of everything they stood for and against.

 

Rush reflects the canadian mentality, overjoyed to be recognized. the 'mats have been and remain an entirely contrarian different beast, from pissing off lorne michaels -- another canadian -- to pissing off nearly every record executive during a fall-down-drunk show at CBGBs, to, more recently, Paul wearing a canadiens jersey for the encore in toronto.

 

in the spirit of rock and roll -- and not the spirit of radio, which did more for rush than ever recognizing the 'mats -- a big fat finger in the air is how any potential induction should be greeted.

 

respect? the 'mats have it. they don't need some silly honor in some fancy facade on the shores of lake erie for mere validation.

 

jw

 

Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night...

[Delete This Account]

Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night...

 

love that. too funny.

 

and here's what makes this year's Rock and Roll Hall of fame list of inductees mostly upside-down in how it's being judged and based on talent and influence.

 

Nirvana, influenced by the replacements, is regarded a sure bet, while the replacements are not, and the Pixies haven't been nominated.

ll cool j, an actor, is regarded a sure bet by some, when NWA, a far more influential rap outfit, is regarded a longshot.

linda ronstadt over Link Wray?

 

the argument i pose here is the rock and roll hall of fame is a skewed pyramid for a mass of great, good and mediocre and continues down the road of the grammy's, gauging greatness as being popularity's near equal. how else can that not be, when they open up the voting to the fans?

that's why the replacements don't belong in this shill palace.

 

there's a finger-in-the-air mentality of rock and roll that seems to be missing at the hall of fame and its mostly safe and whelming list of inductees. and it's the f-the-man mentality that is mostly missing with the hall of fame itself, because of what it is: a tourist attraction pretending to be something more.

 

rock and roll hall of fames by their nature are counter-intuitive to the art form they pretend to represent.

 

rather than a fancy building, it would be more apt to put it in a garage somewhere in Minneapolis, or the tiny Sun Studio in Memphis, or remake something out of CBGBs in NYC. but not this, not this clean, sterile, antiseptic structure that stands as a flat-note peon to soft hyperbole.

 

jw

Edited October 19, 2013 by john wawrow

[The Poojer]

i'm gonna look it up, and i consider myself pretty knowledgeable about music, but I am drawing a complete blank on Link Wray...i hope i don't feel stupid once i look 'them' up...

 

..ok, looked him up. I probably know some of his work, but I gotta admit, I've never heard of him

 

love that. too funny.

 

and here's what makes this year's Rock and Roll Hall of fame list of inductees mostly upside-down in how it's being judged and based on talent and influence.

 

Nirvana, influenced by the replacements, is regarded a sure bet, while the replacements are not, and the Pixies haven't been nominated.

ll cool j, an actor, is regarded a sure bet by some, when NWA, a far more influential rap outfit, is regarded a longshot.

linda ronstadt over Link Wray?

 

the argument i pose here is the rock and roll hall of fame is a skewed pyramid for a mass of great, good and mediocre and continues down the road of the grammy's, gauging greatness as being popularity's near equal. how else can that not be, when they open up the voting to the fans?

that's why the replacements don't belong in this shill palace.

 

there's a finger-in-the-air mentality of rock and roll that seems to be missing at the hall of fame and its mostly safe and whelming list of inductees. and it's the f-the-man mentality that is mostly missing with the hall of fame itself, because of what it is: a tourist attraction pretending to be something more.

 

rock and roll hall of fames by their nature are counter-intuitive to the art form they pretend to represent.

 

rather than a fancy building, it would be more apt to put it in a garage somewhere in Minneapolis, or the tiny Sun Studio in Memphis, or remake something out of CBGBs in NYC. but not this, not this clean, sterile, antiseptic structure that stands as a flat-note peon to soft hyperbole.

 

jw

Edited October 19, 2013 by The Poojer

[Chef Jim]

anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at...

 

Doing if for free is a bit much. If they were 100% against the establishment they would have not used an established record label. I looked them up and they used Twin Tone and Sire Records. If you're that much against "the man" form your own label. The Grateful Dead formed their own label Grateful Dead Records. They did so not to be anti-establishment but to have more control over their artistic content. There are plenty of bands that formed their own label.

[Delete This Account]

"Not selling out to the mainstream" is such a cliche now. Just because you were one of the pioneers of the anti-industry mentality, doesn't mean you're shtick isn't played out. The true genius in any art is in the content and the delivery, not the interpretation and the subsequent honors. Accepting recognition for your work isn't selling out, even if its from people you never intended to influence. Going into the RR HOF along the path they have taken is if anything a bigger honor, as it shows they didn't need to play by the rules to be influential to music lovers. There's a difference between needing validation and simply acknowledging an achievement.

 

my god. not selling out to the mainstream is only cliche if you say it and don't do it. the 'mats built their reputation the hard way, by not selling out, in a variety of ways.

their signing to a major label nearly happened by accident because of how they self-imploded on stage in front of numerous record executives.

 

to not sell out is to not sell out, and yet you seem to think that there is something "cliche" about that. there are those who don't sell out, and you can tell that by their actions. what makes that so cliche?

 

jw

[Chef Jim]

Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night...

 

Gregg's response. There's nothing like a good set of fisticuffs. The ABB were known to throw it down. Sorry about the ad

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u3I8HtDFds

 

my god. not selling out to the mainstream is only cliche if you say it and don't do it. the 'mats built their reputation the hard way, by not selling out, in a variety of ways.

their signing to a major label nearly happened by accident because of how they self-imploded on stage in front of numerous record executives.

 

to not sell out is to not sell out, and yet you seem to think that there is something "cliche" about that. there are those who don't sell out, and you can tell that by their actions. what makes that so cliche?

 

jw

 

But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Chef Jim

[NoSaint]

 

 

Gregg's response. There's nothing like a good set of fisticuffs. The ABB were known to throw it down. Sorry about the ad

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u3I8HtDFds

 

 

 

But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't.

 

On the fence - would you agree that being inducted into the "chef hall of fame" with guy fieri, the head chef from Taco Bell and rachel ray, a bartender, and a farmer and cooking an allstar meal together for the banquet would be a bit different than one run and maintained by the best chefs and with clear culinary vision and standing next to Thomas Keller, Leah chase, and simply being honored?

 

The rrhof has lost their vision and is often bowing to the masses instead of picking with a purpose - they then parade you around the stage.

 

Some years better, some years worse but I could certainly see how you wouldn't get the same answer across the board.

Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint

[Chef Jim]

On the fence - would you agree that being inducted into the "chef hall of fame" with guy fieri, the head chef from Taco Bell and rachel ray, a bartender, and a farmer and cooking an allstar meal together for the banquet would be a bit different than one run and maintained by the best chefs and with clear culinary vision and standing next to Thomas Keller, Leah chase, and simply being honored?

 

The rrhof has lost their vision and is often bowing to the masses instead of picking with a purpose - they then parade you around the stage.

 

Some years better, some years worse but I could certainly see how you wouldn't get the same answer across the board.

 

Different but still an honor. It's not really an appropriate analogy. Chefs typically aren't rogue or anti-establishment and are usually a very humble lot. We realize that anyone involved in food is part of the "brotherhood". I'm pretty sure Thomas Keller would have ZERO problem cooking a HOF dinner with a guy from Taco Bell.

 

Another analogy would be my current profession. Would I be happy side by side with Suze Orman? Absolutely. Though I disagree with much of what she says she did get the average person thinking about their finances which is a good thing.

 

Musicians are also part of a brotherhood. The Replacements need to look at not the Hall but the members which I imagine they will. Music is very subjective, we've beaten that horse to death but it's created for one reason and one reason only. To please the people that like it and I think any musician will respect other musicians regardless of how crappy they are. Anytime you are recognized for your contributions to anything it should be accepted as an honor regardless of who is bestowing that recognition.

[The Poojer]

your response reminds me of my current favorite commercial....2 worlds colliding and they both look like they couldn't be happier in the presence of each other...

 

http://youtu.be/Ny5R5CPtTqo

 

Different but still an honor. It's not really an appropriate analogy. Chefs typically aren't rogue or anti-establishment and are usually a very humble lot. We realize that anyone involved in food is part of the "brotherhood". I'm pretty sure Thomas Keller would have ZERO problem cooking a HOF dinner with a guy from Taco Bell.

 

Another analogy would be my current profession. Would I be happy side by side with Suze Orman? Absolutely. Though I disagree with much of what she says she did get the average person thinking about their finances which is a good thing.

 

Musicians are also part of a brotherhood. The Replacements need to look at not the Hall but the members which I imagine they will. Music is very subjective, we've beaten that horse to death but it's created for one reason and one reason only. To please the people that like it and I think any musician will respect other musicians regardless of how crappy they are. Anytime you are recognized for your contributions to anything it should be accepted as an honor regardless of who is bestowing that recognition.

[Delete This Account]

 

 

But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't.

 

you miss my point. i am among several who don't recognize the shill palace in cleveland as a rock and roll hall of fame. it's not. it's an applebees version of a hard rock cafe.

 

jw

[Chef Jim]

you miss my point. i am among several who don't recognize the shill palace in cleveland as a rock and roll hall of fame. it's not. it's an applebees version of a hard rock cafe.

 

jw

 

I get your point but you obviously didn't get, see or agree with mine regarding accepting any accolades regardless of who is giving them. If I were to join any HOF is wouldn't be so much as who ran that hall but the previous and future members that I was with. And if they think they're too good, too anti-establishment, too hip, too cool or whatever to be join those other musicians then !@#$ them. I know that's exactly why you feel they shouldn't accept because that's who they are and that's what should be expected of them. But if you can't put that aside for one night and say "hey thanks" well to me that's just childish. It's not like they're expected to go on a year long world tour promoting the hall. Accept your award, say thanks, play some music and move on.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Chef Jim

[Just Jack]

... - they then parade you around the stage.

 

That's my beef with the Hall, they do the inductions in NYC, not Cleveland. Other halls do their inductions in the location of their hall, even tiny little Canastota with the Boxing Hall Of Fame, yet the R&RHOF goes out of state for their induction ceremony.

 

EDIT: If you've never seen the Boxing Hall Of Fame, here's a picture from Google Streetview...

http://goo.gl/maps/yWRfW

The brown building is the Hall, the white building is where they do the inductions. You could easily fit both buildings inside Ralph Wilson Stadium and still have room to walk around.

[Delete This Account]

I get your point but you obviously didn't get, see or agree with mine regarding accepting any accolades regardless of who is giving them. If I were to join any HOF is wouldn't be so much as who ran that hall but the previous and future members that I was with. And if they think they're too good, too anti-establishment, too hip, too cool or whatever to be join those other musicians then !@#$ them. I know that's exactly why you feel they shouldn't accept because that's who they are and that's what should be expected of them. But if you can't put that aside for one night and say "hey thanks" well to me that's just childish. It's not like they're expected to go on a year long world tour promoting the hall. Accept your award, say thanks, play some music and move on.

 

oh, pardon me. i was mistaken, giving you the benefit of the doubt when suggesting you might have missed my point.

it's quite evident you simply don't understand rock and roll.

 

my bad on that.

 

jw

[Chef Jim]

oh, pardon me. i was mistaken, giving you the benefit of the doubt when suggesting you might have missed my point.

it's quite evident you simply don't understand rock and roll.

 

my bad on that.

 

jw

 

 

So John, why don't you go ahead and explain rock and roll to me like you have to explain the Replacements to your friends. I'm always up for learning something new.

 

BTW if you feel that R&R is something that needs to or expects to be understood just shows that you're the one that doesn't understand R&R.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Chef Jim

[Philly McButterpants]

you miss my point. i am among several who don't recognize the shill palace in cleveland as a rock and roll hall of fame. it's not. it's an applebees version of a hard rock cafe.

 

jw

 

You had no problem recognizing the RRHOF when you didn't want Rush to get inducted...

 

Shorter thread: My favorite band is better than your favorite band.

[Delete This Account]

You had no problem recognizing the RRHOF when you didn't want Rush to get inducted...

 

Shorter thread: My favorite band is better than your favorite band.

 

bahloney, i criticized the rock and roll hall of fame for being the sham that it has become by inducting Rush before Yes, Blondie before the Runaways, ignoring the Pixies and Nick Lowe.

and this is why i suggested in the heading of this thread that the hall of fame would be best served to re-induct Rush, given its track record.

the fact that some believe Kiss is on the fence and Linda Ronstadt not is yet another example of how that place has become a sinkhole for mediocrity.

 

it's not a matter of who's band is better. i make the case that the Replacements are among the most influential groups to come out of america.

 

jw

 

 

So John, why don't you go ahead and explain rock and roll to me like you have to explain the Replacements to your friends. I'm always up for learning something new.

 

BTW if you feel that R&R is something that needs to or expects to be understood just shows that you're the one that doesn't understand R&R.

 

i've made my case, to you on several occasions. it's not my fault that you don't seem to comprehend.

so let me simply it recalling a conversation we've previously had in regards to an easy demarcation line between what stands and doesn't stand for rock and roll. one word: flute.

 

jw

[The Poojer]

Mick also has said that as soon as he wrote it, he knew it was going to be a single. He said it was his answer to everyone who took seriously what he or the band did.

 

http://youtu.be/JGaBlygm0UY

Edited October 20, 2013 by The Poojer

[Chef Jim]

i've made my case, to you on several occasions. it's not my fault that you don't seem to comprehend.

so let me simply it recalling a conversation we've previously had in regards to an easy demarcation line between what stands and doesn't stand for rock and roll. one word: flute.

 

jw

 

Ah yes, the old flute argument which I had completely forgotten. Well if that's all you got to demonstrate that I don't understand rock and roll shows you've got nothing to back that claim up.

 

it's not a matter of who's band is better. i make the case that the Replacements are among the most influential groups to come out of america.

 

 

jw

 

Now that's a good one. Even though I'm not a big fan of the Replacements there are probably 5 out of Motown alone that have had more influence. See there was lots of good influential music pre-punk/new wave.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Chef Jim

[Astrojanitor]

If the Mats get in some kid is going to discover their new favorite band. Not only is that a good thing, it's the only thing that matters. RRHOF inductions are not official rankings, it ultimately means nothing. But it does shine a light on some great bands which means members of said bands can afford to pay their medical bills (see: Dunlap, Slim).

[BillsFanNC]

bahloney, i criticized the rock and roll hall of fame for being the sham that it has become by inducting Rush before Yes, Blondie before the Runaways, ignoring the Pixies and Nick Lowe.

and this is why i suggested in the heading of this thread that the hall of fame would be best served to re-induct Rush, given its track record.

the fact that some believe Kiss is on the fence and Linda Ronstadt not is yet another example of how that place has become a sinkhole for mediocrity.

 

 

Chris Squire disagrees.

 

 

Rush are getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Are you at all miffed they got it before you?

 

[Laughs] No, I can't object to that. Logistically, it's probably difficult for whoever the committee is to bring in Yes. Rush is fairly simple. It's the same three guys and always has been. They deserve to be there, no doubt about that. But there still seems to be a certain bias towards early-Seventies prog rock bands like Yes and King Crimson.

I still think it's weird that Chicago isn't in. That to me is odd. In our case, we're on our 18th member. If we ever do get inducted, it would be only fair to have all the members, old and new. So that may be a problem for the committee. I don't know.

 

But you're not angry about it?

 

No, of course not. I've got plenty of other awards

 

Neil Peart via Dylan said it best in his induction speech

 

The soft spoken Peart started by saying,”We’ve been saying for a long time that this isn’t a big deal. Turns out. it kind of is!” Referencing the Foo Fighters, he said, “Theirs is the praise of the praiseworthy,” and said he was glad to have influenced them. He quoted Bob Dylan, saying, “The highest purpose of art is to inspire. What else can you do?”

 

http://news.radio.co...l-hall-of-fame/

[Buftex]

bahloney, i criticized the rock and roll hall of fame for being the sham that it has become by inducting Rush before Yes, Blondie before the Runaways, ignoring the Pixies and Nick Lowe.

and this is why i suggested in the heading of this thread that the hall of fame would be best served to re-induct Rush, given its track record.

the fact that some believe Kiss is on the fence and Linda Ronstadt not is yet another example of how that place has become a sinkhole for mediocrity.

 

it's not a matter of who's band is better. i make the case that the Replacements are among the most influential groups to come out of america.

 

jw

 

 

 

i've made my case, to you on several occasions. it's not my fault that you don't seem to comprehend.

so let me simply it recalling a conversation we've previously had in regards to an easy demarcation line between what stands and doesn't stand for rock and roll. one word: flute.

 

jw

 

JW- I probably agree with you more often than not, on matters of taste, but you are really making this a "my taste is superior to your taste" kind of thing...it is inevitable when discussing this kind of stuff...

[Chef Jim]

JW- I probably agree with you more often than not, on matters of taste, but you are really making this a "my taste is superior to your taste" kind of thing...it is inevitable when discussing this kind of stuff...

 

This is why I've learned as best I can to use "In my opinion" a lot when talking about music. There is a lot of music I like and listen to that many people hate and I'm 100% ok with that because I don't care and I would never try to explain it to them. I listen to my music myself. There have been plenty of concerts I go to by myself (next week's Gov't Mule show for example) because my wife doesn't care to go and she and I have very similar tastes in music. Many times I have to remind myself when she's in the car to turn off my music because there's a chance she doesn't like it.

 

There are plenty of other subjects that follow this. Cooking is one that is obviously near and dear to me. I make fun of people's taste but it mostly in jest. I would never begrudge someone for wanting a fast food burger over foie gras. There are plenty of times I would take the burger first and most of the world's best chefs feel that way too.

[tennesseeboy]

Well...Ringo Starr was a replacement for Pete Best? Want Ringo out of the Hall of Fame? That's a problem with hard and fast rules such as a "no replacement" rule.

[Gugny]

Well...Ringo Starr was a replacement for Pete Best? Want Ringo out of the Hall of Fame? That's a problem with hard and fast rules such as a "no replacement" rule.

 

[NoSaint]

 

 

This is why I've learned as best I can to use "In my opinion" a lot when talking about music. There is a lot of music I like and listen to that many people hate and I'm 100% ok with that because I don't care and I would never try to explain it to them. I listen to my music myself. There have been plenty of concerts I go to by myself (next week's Gov't Mule show for example) because my wife doesn't care to go and she and I have very similar tastes in music. Many times I have to remind myself when she's in the car to turn off my music because there's a chance she doesn't like it.

 

There are plenty of other subjects that follow this. Cooking is one that is obviously near and dear to me. I make fun of people's taste but it mostly in jest. I would never begrudge someone for wanting a fast food burger over foie gras. There are plenty of times I would take the burger first and most of the world's best chefs feel that way too.

 

but in this case hes defining what is rock and roll primarily and how influence within that spread, not what is good. he didnt say (atleast in this thread) flute sucks, simply that he doesnt believe it should be in a hall defined as rock. theres plenty of great musicians that have no business in the rock n roll hall of fame.

[Chef Jim]

but in this case hes defining what is rock and roll primarily and how influence within that spread, not what is good. he didnt say (atleast in this thread) flute sucks, simply that he doesnt believe it should be in a hall defined as rock. theres plenty of great musicians that have no business in the rock n roll hall of fame.

 

So now we're saying what instruments belong in the hall and which do not? Are you and he really saying that?? If so that one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

 

The problem you are all having is the name of the hall. The Rock and Roll Hall. I don't look at it based on the name. To me it's the Contemporary Music Hall of Fame.

[NoSaint]

 

 

So now we're saying what instruments belong in the hall and which do not? Are you and he really saying that?? If so that one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

 

The problem you are all having is the name of the hall. The Rock and Roll Hall. I don't look at it based on the name. To me it's the Contemporary Music Hall of Fame.

 

isnt that the very problem, that its not simply the contemporary music hall of fame, despite being treated as such? Hes more strongly (and i certainly support) arguing that rock n roll should be something special, not just anyone that plays music well in the modern era.

Edited October 21, 2013 by NoSaint

[Chef Jim]

isnt that the very problem, that its not simply the contemporary music hall of fame, despite being treated as such? Hes more strongly (and i certainly support) arguing that rock n roll should be something special, not just anyone that plays music well in the modern era.

 

OK here's the rub. Define Rock and Roll.

[Delete This Account]

isnt that the very problem, that its not simply the contemporary music hall of fame, despite being treated as such? Hes more strongly (and i certainly support) arguing that rock n roll should be something special, not just anyone that plays music well in the modern era.

 

thanks, for helping me make my case, No Saint. you've helped define a point i've been trying to say. rock and roll is a movement, an art form of swagger and rebellion, expression and angst. it is for the young, and the young at heart. if there's one thing i did respect during my one and likely only visit to the rock and roll hall of fame is the t-shirt i bought, which read: "If it's too loud, you're too old."

 

prog rock is fine. heck, jethro tull is fine. i have no trouble with anyone liking their music. but is it hall of fame worthy? unsure of that.

now if ian anderson did more than just play that flute and attempted to pull a few ribald GG Allin stunts, well, then we might well be on to something. but to stomp around on stage for 8 and 12 minutes at a time blowing wind seemed a little too progressive for what rock and roll stands for, which bared to the bone is blues with a gut punch.

 

M.I.A. in my opinion harkened that rock and roll spirit with her indignant display on stage during the super bowl halftime show.

Lada Gaga might have something going for her given the stands she's taken.

Devo's nerdy contrarian stand in the face of the pretty-boy and girl 80s was rebellious. and they could play.

or Steve Earle pissing off St. Pete at the Pearly Gates, is something to behold.

four kids, half-drunk on cheep whisky in a garage, jamming on a friday night is my definition of rock and roll, or as close as it comes.

 

 

but a flautist?

 

it's suggested here that i make my case to define rock and roll.

well, define jazz or country.

it's like explaining blue.

it ain't easy. but you know it when you see it, and especially when you hear it.

 

jw

[NoSaint]

 

 

thanks, for helping me make my case, No Saint. you've helped define a point i've been trying to say. rock and roll is a movement, an art form of swagger and rebellion, exp<b></b>ression and angst. it is for the young, and the young at heart. if there's one thing i did respect during my one and likely only visit to the rock and roll hall of fame is the t-shirt i bought, which read: "If it's too loud, you're too old."

 

prog rock is fine. heck, jethro tull is fine. i have no trouble with anyone liking their music. but is it hall of fame worthy? unsure of that.

now if ian anderson did more than just play that flute and attempted to pull a few ribald GG Allin stunts, well, then we might well be on to something. but to stomp around on stage for 8 and 12 minutes at a time blowing wind seemed a little too progressive for what rock and roll stands for, which bared to the bone is blues with a gut punch.

 

M.I.A. in my opinion harkened that rock and roll spirit with her indignant display on stage during the super bowl halftime show.

Lada Gaga might have something going for her given the stands she's taken.

Devo's nerdy contrarian stand in the face of the pretty-boy and girl 80s was rebellious. and they could play.

or Steve Earle pissing off St. Pete at the Pearly Gates, is something to behold.

four kids, half-drunk on cheep whisky in a garage, jamming on a friday night is my definition of rock and roll, or as close as it comes.

 

 

but a flautist?

 

it's suggested here that i make my case to define rock and roll.

well, define jazz or country.

it's like explaining blue.

it ain't easy. but you know it when you see it, and especially when you hear it.

 

jw

 

and instead of making their place in music being one to celebrate that, and lead the discussion -- instead it seems theyve decided to make it the "music industry hall of fame"

 

i wont say its not a worthy hall of fame, but certainly it seems to betray its name at times.

Edited October 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[Helpmenow]

 

 

OK here's the rub. Define Rock and Roll.

chuck berry

[Chef Jim]

thanks, for helping me make my case, No Saint. you've helped define a point i've been trying to say. rock and roll is a movement, an art form of swagger and rebellion, expression and angst. it is for the young, and the young at heart. if there's one thing i did respect during my one and likely only visit to the rock and roll hall of fame is the t-shirt i bought, which read: "If it's too loud, you're too old."

 

 

jw

 

So let me get this straight. If a band does not display swagger, rebellion and angst they're not rock and roll?? I knew you were going to come back with the whole R&R is an attitude more than a style of music. It's first and foremost the music, And that's why in my opinion punk sucks is that all they have is the anger and angst because they sure can't play their instruments all that well. There are tons of bands out there that play R&R music that have zero anger and or angst.

 

What is rock and roll? It's a music that was formed in the 40's and 50's. It's the collision of blues, jazz, country with a little gospel thrown in. It's heavy on the back beat and it music generally played with drums, guitars, keyboards and vocals and maybe even a flute, saxophone or violin thrown in. What it has become today is impossible to identify because it has changed so much over the years. From blues rock, to jazz rock to fusion rock, to prog rock, to heavy rock, to punk rock. The attitude is just a gimmick in my mind. Something born out the the rebellion of the 60's and expanded upon by the punk rock scene that arose in London and NY. I think any rock and roller who cut their chops in the 60's and 70's that is still going strong today would laugh their ass of at you referring to rock and roll and more of an attitude than it is about the music,

[NoSaint]

 

 

So let me get this straight. If a band does not display swagger, rebellion and angst they're not rock and roll?? I knew you were going to come back with the whole R&R is an attitude more than a style of music. It's first and foremost the music, And that's why in my opinion punk sucks is that all they have is the anger and angst because they sure can't play their instruments all that well. There are tons of bands out there that play R&R music that have zero anger and or angst.

 

What is rock and roll? It's a music that was formed in the 40's and 50's. It's the collision of blues, jazz, country with a little gospel thrown in. It's heavy on the back beat and it music generally played with drums, guitars, keyboards and vocals and maybe even a flute, saxophone or violin thrown in. What it has become today is impossible to identify because it has changed so much over the years. From blues rock, to jazz rock to fusion rock, to prog rock, to heavy rock, to punk rock. The attitude is just a gimmick in my mind. Something born out the the rebellion of the 60's and expanded upon by the punk rock scene that arose in London and NY. I think any rock and roller who cut their chops in the 60's and 70's that is still going strong today would laugh their ass of at you referring to rock and roll and more of an attitude than it is about the music,

 

By your hall if contemporary music and everything is fusion anyway approach - what would you exclude from eligibility, if anything?

 

Certainly it's about the music but for a hall of fame it's about EVERYTHING and for something as rebellious as rock n roll attitude matters.

 

Side question but related and hopefully shifts the standoff a little: is part of the problem that 295 inductions in 28 ceremonies is simply too fast a pace allowing (forcing) the definition to spread broadly?

Edited October 23, 2013 by NoSaint

[Helpmenow]

 

http://youtu.be/JGaBlygm0UY

with ronnie wood help