C.Biscuit97 Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 But the Bills got it wrong they picked the wrong guy in the wrong year...... y'know we don't need stats to tell us that all we need to do is look back and see they got it wrong with Edwards and wrong with Losman and it becomes a logical absolute that they got it wrong with EJ. Obviously...... On a serious note a very worthy topic. Although even us Manuel fans have to concede that stats alone are never conclusive. My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts. I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts. I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 EJ vs Himself.... Doesn't look good so far, injuries, inconsistent, accuracy issues, footwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts. I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board. And I agree with you. Except about the President.... cos hey he ain't the boss of me.... although I'll swap you our current Prime Minister for your current President if you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 And I agree with you. Except about the President.... cos hey he ain't the boss of me.... although I'll swap you our current Prime Minister for your current President if you like? I just think society as whole has too many people who root for folks to fail. But I'm a glass half full kinda guy. It sucks being optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I just think society as whole has too many people who root for folks to fail. But I'm a glass half full kinda guy. It sucks being optimistic. I'm not an optimistic person, but I am a "bigger picture" person. So that's why I agree with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I didn't get the Wilson hype before the draft but I'm sold. He has everything you want in a franchise QB except height. He is likely the MVP front runner. He is the real deal. I think he's as good as Luck even if he's not 6'4" and 235lbs. I never thought I would say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 My main problem with EJ is that he seems hesitant to throw down field. We don't need another Capt checkdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Congrats. Some of you would have been calling to draft another Qb if we had drafted Russell freakin' Wilson after 8 games. Let's simmer down a bit on Mr. Manuel. After going 4-2 in his first 6 games and lighting up NE for 3 TDs and almost 300 yards in the air in game 6? I doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 After going 4-2 in his first 6 games and lighting up NE for 3 TDs and almost 300 yards in the air in game 6? I doubt that. I get what you do here. You have to find that small piece you can pick at. Again, if anyone strictly uses W-L record to judge Qbs, they're stupid. In his first 8 stats, Russell Wilson passed 160 yards or less 5 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Good topic. I am in the Manuel camp. As many know, under my former moniker of Marauder24 I was somewhat critical of Pickspatrick. I see the glass half full with EJ and enjoyed seeing him rebound after the Steelers fiasco. Though he didn't put up great last week, he had us in position to win the game twice. Edited December 6, 2013 by Bronc24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I get what you do here. You have to find that small piece you can pick at. Again, if anyone strictly uses W-L record to judge Qbs, they're stupid. In his first 8 stats, Russell Wilson passed 160 yards or less 5 times. Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later. So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Let me start off by saying this doesn't mean Manuel will ever be as good as Wilson, but let's settle down a bit. Wilson: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/25785/gamelog/?season=2012_2 43 of 75 (57.3%), 434 yards (144.7 yards/ game), 5.79 ypa, 4 tds to 1 INT, 1 fumble lost, Seattle averages 19 points/ game. Also in his 4th start, Wilson threw 0 tds and 3 ints. Manuel: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26639/ 64 of 108 (59.3%), 689 yards (229.7 yards/ game), 6.4 ypa, 4 tds to 1 ints, 1 fumble lost. 21.7 points 1) Both had 4td to 1 int ratio. IMO, this is one of the most important stats for a QB. You can win a lot of games with that ratio. 2) Seattle might have the best defense in the NFL. They carried that team while Wilson learned on the job. With their injuries, the Bills have struggled on D. Manuel has been asked to do much more. 3) 2 weeks of missing your 1st training camp is huge. Wilson had a whole training camp. 4) Let's all take a deep breath and relax. Number 2 is the reason why we need to continue drafting defensive help! As I stated in a different topic, we should draft an OLB and a CB with our first two picks. Mack(Buffalo) and Roberson(Florida) are the guys I would like to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later. So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed. I think you underestimate people here. Pretty stats are what matters to them. They would rather look good and lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Small piece? I was simply saying that if Wilson won 4 of his first 6 games including a great win against NE, very few pwoplw would have been calling for a new QB 2 weeks later. So...I'm disagreeing with your entire premise (not a small peice of it), if that's allowed. Anyone who was here during the Jauron era knows that CBiscuit vehemently defended a stat about early coaching record that he felt proved that Dick Jauron was the equivalent of Bill Belichick. For 4 years......at which point Jauron had accumulated 8 losing seasons in 9 attempts. The circumstances, past coaching success of the two coaches etc.. were impertinent in his opinion. I am not giving up on EJ but the bottom line is that these two QB's arrived in the NFL at different levels of preparedness and for good or bad stats do not tell that story. Wilson was a polished, fundamentally sound passer........EJ was not and still is not. The Bills need to work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Russell Wilson and EJ Manuel both are young QB's. RW and EJ are both poised, articulate, and likeable human beings. RW and EJ both have strong arms. Other than these shared traits, there's a few things to separate them: height, throwing accuracy, a talent for reading defences, a 6th sense for feeling pressure, and an uncanny drive to be a champion. These are things that keep EJ from credibly being in the same conversation as Russell Wilson. Am not saying Ej can't get better or even become a good NFL QB, but there's sufficient evidence there's a wide gap between the two. Then again there's a fairly wide gap between RW and most of the QB's in the NFL. He's special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Russell Wilson and EJ Manuel both are young QB's. RW and EJ are both poised, articulate, and likeable human beings. RW and EJ both have strong arms. Other than these shared traits, there's a few things to separate them: height, throwing accuracy, a talent for reading defences, a 6th sense for feeling pressure, and an uncanny drive to be a champion. These are things that keep EJ from credibly being in the same conversation as Russell Wilson. Am not saying Ej can't get better or even become a good NFL QB, but there's sufficient evidence there's a wide gap between the two. Then again there's a fairly wide gap between RW and most of the QB's in the NFL. He's special. I don't know why you could be down on him as EJ has played pretty damn well the last two weeks. You can't blame him for the Atlanta loss. Anytime you put up 31 points, you deserve the W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I don't know why you could be down on him as EJ has played pretty damn well the last two weeks. You can't blame him for the Atlanta loss. Anytime you put up 31 points, you deserve the W. And anytime you put your team in position to win the game (on back to back offensive possessions late in the game) you deserve the W. The Atlanta game would have been another comeback win for EJ. We'd be singing his praises about how he 'gets better' late in the game etc. Not his fault the receivers decided to cough it up twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Schaub, minus some really poorly timed and unfortunate for him returned tds -- is over 62% completions, averaging about 250 yards a game (despite more than one being a partial game) and is 9 tds to 10 picks. 2 of those early pick 6s don't get returned for tds and we are likely saying he's just having a down year instead of running him out of the league. Granted he made the poor throws, took the bad risks- but I don't think he's been quite as awful as some portray. Edited December 7, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Excerpted from another thread and posted here: Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted: Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009 Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009 Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009 Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010 Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010 Cam Newton 1st overall 2011 Jake Locker 8th overall 2011 Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011 Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011 Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012 RG3 2nd overall 2012 Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012 Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012 Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall. Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts. Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected: Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden. I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season. Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season. Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel. Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do. The fact that Russell Wilson is playing like a high first round draft pick doesn't denigrate the fact that EJ has had a very good rookie season. Edited December 7, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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