EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I noticed at SJFC on Sunday that the Bills offense were implementing multiple bunch formations. Some with 3 wide and other with an H back or TE. I really have some mixed feelings about this formation. I am a very traditional spread offense fan and cluttered formations (i.e Chan and co.) really worry me. I've never seen the benefit of the lack of spacing or limited use of the field. 2 questions: Do you like this formation with our current players skill sets? Which players do you believe would benefit from the bunch? I understand Marrone and Hackett want to spread the love this season. I think this maybe a ploy to distribute the ball, rub defenders and allow some of our quick twitch guys off the ball without someone in their grill. My bunch, if I had to, would include Stevie, Woods and CJ. All players are threats from the slot and can make defenders miss. Any insight into this formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Pats* love them some bunch formation bubble screens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I noticed at SJFC on Sunday that the Bills offense were implementing multiple bunch formations. Some with 3 wide and other with an H back or TE. I really have some mixed feelings about this formation. I am a very traditional spread offense fan and cluttered formations (i.e Chan and co.) really worry me. I've never seen the benefit of the lack of spacing or limited use of the field. 2 questions: Do you like this formation with our current players skill sets? Which players do you believe would benefit from the bunch? I understand Marrone and Hackett want to spread the love this season. I think this maybe a ploy to distribute the ball, rub defenders and allow some of our quick twitch guys off the ball without someone in their grill. My bunch, if I had to, would include Stevie, Woods and CJ. All players are threats from the slot and can make defenders miss. Any insight into this formation? Chan's offense did pretty well with the bunch formation. It works. It confuses defenses. Gets people moving in the wrong directions. It's gimmicky, but trying to play straight up football in the NFL gets you beat (see Dave Wannstadt defense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Chan's offense did pretty well with the bunch formation. It works. It confuses defenses. Gets people moving in the wrong directions. It's gimmicky, but trying to play straight up football in the NFL gets you beat (see Dave Wannstadt defense) I think you've described it to a 'T'. However, the amount of this formation I've seen was surprising. Unless they were specifically working that formation that day, it seems more of a steady formation than any gimmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Bunch allows two of the three receivers a free release which is sometimes a struggle for young receivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Another vote for the bunch formation here. You can "screen" the defensive backs, it gives WRs room to not get jammed at the line, and it can be effective for outside blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I noticed at SJFC on Sunday that the Bills offense were implementing multiple bunch formations. Some with 3 wide and other with an H back or TE. I really have some mixed feelings about this formation. I am a very traditional spread offense fan and cluttered formations (i.e Chan and co.) really worry me. I've never seen the benefit of the lack of spacing or limited use of the field. 2 questions: Do you like this formation with our current players skill sets? Which players do you believe would benefit from the bunch? I understand Marrone and Hackett want to spread the love this season. I think this maybe a ploy to distribute the ball, rub defenders and allow some of our quick twitch guys off the ball without someone in their grill. My bunch, if I had to, would include Stevie, Woods and CJ. All players are threats from the slot and can make defenders miss. Any insight into this formation? you may be apprehensive, due to the collossal failure bunch formation that jauron used with Josh reed sooooo very poorly. I feel your pain, but I think a good offensive coach, or even a somewhat good one in Chan Gailey proved that it could be a good setup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Its easier to set picks on the DB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Oooh my infant wait to get home and write an hour long response to this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Bring back the "milling cow" defensive "formation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Another vote for the bunch formation here. You can "screen" the defensive backs, it gives WRs room to not get jammed at the line, and it can be effective for outside blocking. agreed. Consider yourself a defensive back and you see Goodwin, Graham and Stevie in a 'bunch' out wide. I'm not feeling very comfortable if I'm trying to cover one of those guys coming out of that formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sorry man but time to throw "traditional" out the window..... We are bringing in a college coach with "fresh" thinking...... This offense will be fast paced and unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Chan's offense did pretty well with the bunch formation. It works. It confuses defenses. Gets people moving in the wrong directions. It's gimmicky, but trying to play straight up football in the NFL gets you beat (see Dave Wannstadt defense) I expect this year's offense to look very similar to last year's. Chan was a pass happy West Coastish OC like Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 What I hope they do is use Gragg like the Pats used Hernandez, i.e. all over. He's got the size to play TE and FB and the speed to play WR and RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Man, lotta bunch lovers here on TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 agreed. Consider yourself a defensive back and you see Goodwin, Graham and Stevie in a 'bunch' out wide. I'm not feeling very comfortable if I'm trying to cover one of those guys coming out of that formation. Other than the fact that they are doing it week in and week out against other talented receivers and often proven WRs and qbs at that. It can be a challenging formation but not unique and until our guys prove special I don't think DBs will be shaking in their cleats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Other than the fact that they are doing it week in and week out against other talented receivers and often proven WRs and qbs at that. It can be a challenging formation but not unique and until our guys prove special I don't think DBs will be shaking in their cleats. Great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I expect this year's offense to look very similar to last year's. Chan was a pass happy West Coastish OC like Hackett. interesting take on the season to start.I would not not toss your opinion aside too quickly. That would be easy enough when speaking of Gaileys regime . Hackett spoke of balanced attack and has record of such more recently. But i think the thing is pretty wide open at this point and he is possibly just teaching the defense some looks that Pats will give as mentioned. I have no idea what to expect from that Nathaniel yet. i consider that a good thing as right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Oooh my infant wait to get home and write an hour long response to this thread! That was a rather coherent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Well, as many know I really like defense. I really like football, though. I used to obsess about making offensive plays. I would look at ways to use characterists of athletes I knew and put them in positions to do something different and create a situation where they could succeed. After a while, I realized it was easy. So, I started looking at how to get the best athletes with skill sets on the field to defend those situations. I spent a lot of time learning the nickel, the dime, and watching LeBeau and his schemes. I quickly grew disgusted of the Tampa2, seeing how I would easily defeat the defense. I spend time looking at the set up of the play to inverse it and stop it. A bunch set on the outside could be amazing. Putting Chandler out wide next to CJ Spiller and SJ13? I mean, anyone can look at that and yawn. However, what you do after the ball is snapped creates a play. If I had those three out there and had to stop them I would be hard pressed, especially if EJ Manual and FJax are in the backfield. Shotgun. An option sweep to the weak side? A good old fashioned flea flicker? Let SJ13 run his seam post, CJ streak along the sideline and run Chandler right to the 1st down marker. Yeah, hows that? A group you scratched your head at and wondered what the heck are you going to do with them, well... there you go. Now, lets get to the Bunch 2000 level course. With CJ's speed on the outside you quickly cross the DB likely the nickel or dime back across the front of the CB who is on SJ13. Crossing DB's in front of each other is a pain in the butt. SJ13 drags the CB with him, and if the ILB is not paying attention he goes with him. If it is zone, well, someone is going to mess up. A zone D cannot defend that. Who is going to cover Chandler in this play? The OLB? I'll take that matchup 9 times of ten. Especially considering that the FS is going deep with CJ and the SS watching the backfield and having to make sure SJ13 doesn't light him up. A one on one matchup with Chandler in the end zone or at the first down marker is a great option provided we have a QB who can zip it to him before the others come back up. Bunch level 3000 course: Anyone do the math yet? I have only gave you 10 players on offense. Pick your poison putting an 11th. Want to put a TE in there, too? That could be fun, a strong side TE like Lee Smith to help block? TJ Graham to burn up the turf? Robert Woods to just get open? Maybe put a fullback in the backfield or Dickerson at split? You create the mismatch and submit it for your thesis and I may give you an A. ------ A bunch formation is not about wham-bam-thank you ma'm. A bunch formation is about mismatches. You have a lot of mismatches on our team because we are a lot of patches in a coat of many colors (Dolly Parton song anyone?). We have a lot of offensive weapons that bring unique attributes. I mean, what in the world is Dorin Dickerson? I am pretty sure he is not a TE. He is an 2nd rate Aaron Hernandez type to many. What about SJ13? We have Lee Smith who I am pretty certain at least one time last year ran at the tackler on purpose just to hit him. We have options. Chan knew this he just could not play the deck with _____ (the ties he put on his own hands, the hands his oponents got dealt...etc) That was a rather coherent post. I was typing in a hurry as I was getting ready to leave work. I just now noticed. Damn that's funny. My infant must know some football. (I have no kids, thankfully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) I like it too, for above reasons and the fact that it disguises and creates matchup problems, as well. I BTW think that Marrone will run the ball which the bunch can also lead to a semi wedge of blockers in front of the back. Boys beat me to the matchup lol, I should read it when it says one post has been added do you want to see it? Edited August 7, 2013 by bowery4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Don't get ur skivvies in a bunch formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I like it too, for above reasons and the fact that it disguises and creates matchup problems things, as well. I BTW think that Marrone will run the ball which the bunch can also lead to a semi wedge of blockers in front of the back. Do you want to run CJ Spiller in to traffic? Or do you want to turn him in to an open field and let him make his own lanes and go one on one? What about FJ being in the backfield? Do you want FJ going around the end or making his lanes up the middle? If we had Marshawn Lynch then I would be good with sending him right in to a traffic accident because like a Brinks truck he will move what is in his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Do you want to run CJ Spiller in to traffic? Or do you want to turn him in to an open field and let him make his own lanes and go one on one? What about FJ being in the backfield? Do you want FJ going around the end or making his lanes up the middle? If we had Marshawn Lynch then I would be good with sending him right in to a traffic accident because like a Brinks truck he will move what is in his way. I don't really think you see my point; first they will run through and by them (is that hard to understand?) wedges create running lanes. Down-field blockers create lanes...... Chan used it this way in his bubble screens. FJ and CJ have done it before. This years team has different personnel and they are faster, at that. I think they will/can do what I said, most teams have some plays like that. I was simply stating that it is advantageous. How is having a bunch, different than running/passing behind the Oline (who are slower and get in the way more by your logic)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Pats* love them some bunch formation bubble screens That's what I was gona say. As long as we win Hackett can use whatever we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Lots of good points here. Love seeing the passion and opinions. The reason I'm not a fan of the bunch is simple. Spacing. I believe this to be one of the most important parts of a successful offense. With guys like SJ13 and CJ, the need room to work. Bunching them up, and "allowing them room to release" isn't going to be a game changing scheme. I argue that it instead does clogs the field. These players are already professionals at making one man miss. I love watching Stevie come off the ball. Now why would we bundle these guys together and let a zone pick them apart as they release? Many reasons for both opinions. There is no one answer. As many people have stated, it comes down to execution and success. Personally, I think our players belong in space. Open field, one on one. If we think our players are better than theres, line them up and beat them. We do not need the rubs, trickery or gimmicks that a bunch brings. Could it be a package for a few plays a game? Absolutely. However, I think making this a staple in this offense with these many elusive players would be a disservice to their skill set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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