Mario Williams: Is a Pattern Forming?

[Doc]

It's silly and laughable because you made that part up. I never said they got better because he was injured (so pathetic, doc), but while he was injured. This cannot be disputed, nor can the fact that they decided they didn't need him and they were correct. Wade is a great DC, but it is also true that the combination of players they had the rest of the season worked very well and made Mario expendable.

 

Finally, your comparison between Watt's rookie year and Dareus's is what is truly laughable. The regualr season sack total is the only thing they had in common their rookie years.

Okay weo, you really meant the Texans got better while Mario was out. Fine. And true, the defense improved (barely) after he went out, which is to be expected given it was a new defense for them. They obviously would have been better with him that season and last, but his pricetag was too high for them. Not sure what your point is here because the Pats dropped 41 on them in the playoffs last year, meaning they needed a lot more than what they had.

 

And what's the beef with comparing Dareus' and Watt's rookie seasons? Because Dareus didn't get to play in the playoffs?

[Mr. WEO]

Okay weo, you really meant the Texans got better while Mario was out. Fine. And true, the defense improved (barely) after he went out, which is to be expected given it was a new defense for them. They obviously would have been better with him that season and last, but his pricetag was too high for them. Not sure what your point is here because the Pats dropped 41 on them in the playoffs last year, meaning they needed a lot more than what they had.

 

And what's the beef with comparing Dareus' and Watt's rookie seasons? Because Dareus didn't get to play in the playoffs?

 

Ah, yeah, doc--that's what I wrote because that's what I meant. The words you put in my mouth made no sense, so I would never had said them.

 

Anyway...the Texans were "barely" better without Mario? They finished the 2011 season 4th in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed. The year before, they were 29th and 30th. In 2012, they were 7th and 9th. It's clear how they were not "barely" better without Mario. But you pick a single game against the pats to prove they really missed Williams. OK doc. By the way, a 2-2 NE team dropped 44 points in the second half to a Mario led 2-2 Bills team---at home.

 

I don't think that Dareus had nearly the same impact his rookie season for the Bills. Simple.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

Ah, yeah, doc--that's what I wrote because that's what I meant. The words you put in my mouth made no sense, so I would never had said them.

 

Anyway...the Texans were "barely" better without Mario? They finished the 2011 season 4th in points allowed and 2nd in yards allowed. The year before, they were 29th and 30th. In 2012, they were 7th and 9th. It's clear how they were not "barely" better without Mario. But you pick a single game against the pats to prove they really missed Williams. OK doc. By the way, a 2-2 NE team dropped 44 points in the second half to a Mario led 2-2 Bills team---at home.

 

I don't think that Dareus had nearly the same impact his rookie season for the Bills. Simple.

I was talking about 2011, Mario's last year with the team and first under Wade Phillips. They were barely better, if at all, after Mario went down that season, and he played 5 in games and had 5 sacks. Again they could have used him given the 83 total points they surrendered last year to the Pats, compared to the 89 the much worse and Watt-less Bills surrendered.

 

And Dareus had a big impact on the Bills defense. He was voted to the Pro Football Writer Association all-rookie team. Simple.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Doc

[Coach Tuesday]

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

[Doc]

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

Really? I thought I was doing you a favor.

[MRW]

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

You're a big doody-head!

 

Feeling better?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I hate this thread...I wish I hadn't opened it...

 

Apparently Just Jack and some of the others have developed some newfangled theory that threads more easily die when we don't post in them.

 

I'm not really sure what they base this on.

 

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

 

Mind your own business, chump!

[3rdand12]

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

all in good time my friend

You're a big doody-head!

 

Feeling better?

I know i do !

[Mr. WEO]

I was talking about 2011, Mario's last year with the team and first under Wade Phillips. They were barely better, if at all, after Mario went down that season, and he played 5 in games and had 5 sacks. Again they could have used him given the 83 total points they surrendered last year to the Pats, compared to the 89 the much worse and Watt-less Bills surrendered.

 

And Dareus had a big impact on the Bills defense. He was voted to the Pro Football Writer Association all-rookie team. Simple.

 

That team went to the playoffs in 2011 without a QB. Schaub was gone after 10 games. I would say the defense was the reason they went to the playoffs. Yes, the Texans struggled against the pats in 2012, but I'm not sure what sure what the Texans "could have used (Mario) for" in 2012 against NE....I mean, really?

 

I listed Watt's rookie stats. I thought he had a better rookie year, the "sports writers'" opinion not withstanding.

 

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

 

Where would you like it?!

[Doc]

That team went to the playoffs in 2011 without a QB. Schaub was gone after 10 games. I would say the defense was the reason they went to the playoffs. Yes, the Texans struggled against the pats in 2012, but I'm not sure what sure what the Texans "could have used (Mario) for" in 2012 against NE....I mean, really?

Yeah I'd say the defense carried the team, seeing as how they had never made the playoffs before Phillips came aboard and gave them a credible defense. But a team that gets whalloped to the tune of 41 points couldn't use another good player? Did you really just write that? I mean, really?

I listed Watt's rookie stats. I thought he had a better rookie year, the "sports writers'" opinion not withstanding.

Hmmm, do listen to the "sports writers" or you? Tough choice there.

[CookieG]

Again they could have used him given the 83 total points they surrendered last year to the Pats, compared to the 89 the much worse and Watt-less Bills surrendered.

 

 

Yeah well, it would have been nice if Mario showed up for either of the Bills' games against the Pats.

 

They could have used him.

[Doc]

Yeah well, it would have been nice if Mario showed up for either of the Bills' games against the Pats.

 

They could have used him.

It would have been nice if any of them showed up against the Pats.

[jimmy10]

Loud noises!

[Mr. WEO]

Yeah I'd say the defense carried the team, seeing as how they had never made the playoffs before Phillips came aboard and gave them a credible defense. But a team that gets whalloped to the tune of 41 points couldn't use another good player? Did you really just write that? I mean, really?

 

Hmmm, do listen to the "sports writers" or you? Tough choice there.

 

Not sure what they could have used agaisnt the pats, but our experience shows that Mario wouldn't have helped. Really.

 

As a famous conflator and revisionist of history, your influences are whatever they are. Take for example your recent and bizarre claim of a Hernandez "signed confession". Despite the intuitive off-the-wall nature of the claim, you found it believable, subsequent backpedaling not withstanding.

 

I would say "believe what you will", but it would be redundant.

[Doc]

Not sure what they could have used agaisnt the pats, but our experience shows that Mario wouldn't have helped. Really.

 

As a famous conflator and revisionist of history, your influences are whatever they are. Take for example your recent and bizarre claim of a Hernandez "signed confession". Despite the intuitive off-the-wall nature of the claim, you found it believable, subsequent backpedaling not withstanding.

 

I would say "believe what you will", but it would be redundant.

Our recent experience of Mario playing in a crap defense shows he wouldn't have helped? And his 5 sacks in 5 games under Phillips means nothing?

 

Re-read your last sentence. And then consider the irony.

[Dorkington]

Our recent experience of Mario playing in a crap defense shows he wouldn't have helped? And his 5 sacks in 5 games under Phillips means nothing?

 

Re-read your last sentence. And then consider the irony.

 

The fact that our defense was still crappy even with Mario playing decently for part of the season... I can kind of see the point that he doesn't have an effect on overall defense. But then again, it could also be that he's primarily played for ****ty DCs it seems.

 

Guess we'll have a clear view of Mario this season, since our new DC is supposed to be some sort of genius.

[CookieG]

It would have been nice if any of them showed up against the Pats.

 

Hey, that was pretty good.

 

You went from "he would have helped" to "Oh yeah, what about everyone else?" in a millisecond.

 

People have made excuses for the guy his entire career.

 

I can only hope that this will be the first time in his career that he actually makes a defense better.

 

God knows the Bills could use the help.

[Doc]

The fact that our defense was still crappy even with Mario playing decently for part of the season... I can kind of see the point that he doesn't have an effect on overall defense. But then again, it could also be that he's primarily played for ****ty DCs it seems.

 

Guess we'll have a clear view of Mario this season, since our new DC is supposed to be some sort of genius.

Hey, that was pretty good.

 

You went from "he would have helped" to "Oh yeah, what about everyone else?" in a millisecond.

 

People have made excuses for the guy his entire career.

 

I can only hope that this will be the first time in his career that he actually makes a defense better.

 

God knows the Bills could use the help.

If you were expecting Mario to single-handedly cover for Dareus, Kelsay, the LB'ing corps, a CB spot, the SS, and Wannstedt, well then...

[Best Player Available]

Guess we'll have a clear view of Mario this season, since our new DC is supposed to be some sort of genius.

Funny, Wannacrap was getting the same "genius" treatment last offseason. When, the bills were (supposedly) kicking off season butts and crowned paper Champs. No change this year. We shall see.

[Mr. WEO]

Our recent experience of Mario playing in a crap defense shows he wouldn't have helped? And his 5 sacks in 5 games under Phillips means nothing?

 

Re-read your last sentence. And then consider the irony.

 

I chose not to believe in a another ridiculous untruth. You again chose to.

 

The rest of your arguments regarding Mario's worth to the Texans go against all evidence and are completely unconvincing, doc. No irony there.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Dorkington]

If you were expecting Mario to single-handedly cover for Dareus, Kelsay, the LB'ing corps, a CB spot, the SS, and Wannstedt, well then...

 

I'm not expecting him to, I was trying to understand the points being made.

 

As far as I'm concerned, after he had his wrist treated, Mario played well for us. End of story.

 

Funny, Wannacrap was getting the same "genius" treatment last offseason. When, the bills were (supposedly) kicking off season butts and crowned paper Champs. No change this year. We shall see.

 

Yup. Hence why I'm not getting excited at all about possibly being better. I do like that there's at least a change.

[Doc]

I chose not to believe in a another ridiculous untruth. You again chose to.

 

The rest of your arguments regarding Mario's worth to the Texans go against all evidence and are completely unconvincing, doc. No irony there.

Yes, because you believed AH wasn't that stupid, right doc?

 

Look, the best you're going to get is that the Texans couldn't afford Mario. Had he stayed, he'd have at-worst been the 2nd best player on their defense. If you think he wouldn't have helped them, well, that's your bag.

 

I'm not expecting him to, I was trying to understand the points being made.

 

As far as I'm concerned, after he had his wrist treated, Mario played well for us. End of story.

Sorry. I was going to respond to you with a separate reply but didn't, and didn't remove your quote.

[CookieG]

If you were expecting Mario to single-handedly cover for Dareus, Kelsay, the LB'ing corps, a CB spot, the SS, and Wannstedt, well then...

 

Yeah, that's what I expected...

 

How about he actually beat the guy in front of him on occasion?

 

I mean beating a guy that isn't a third rate OT.

 

He did a nice disappearing act against Sebastian Vollmer in 2 games.

 

When that didn't work, they moved him to the right side to go against Nate Solder occasionally..with similar results.

 

Dude was brought in to get after a guy like Tom Brady. But when he can't beat the guy in front of him...

[Doc]

Yeah, that's what I expected...

 

How about he actually beat the guy in front of him on occasion?

 

I mean beating a guy that isn't a third rate OT.

 

He did a nice disappearing act against Sebastian Vollmer in 2 games.

 

When that didn't work, they moved him to the right side to go against Nate Solder occasionally..with similar results.

 

Dude was brought in to get after a guy like Tom Brady. But when he can't beat the guy in front of him...

Watt couldn't either. He got his half-sack on a stunt up the middle.

[CookieG]

Watt couldn't either. He got his half-sack on a stunt up the middle.

 

Well, you're consistent, I give ya' that.

 

Can't seem to discuss him without saying "oh yeah, what about the other guy?"

 

Now...why couldn't Mario beat Sebastian Vollmer...or Nate Solder?

[Nanker]

When does training camp start?

[Doc]

Well, you're consistent, I give ya' that.

 

Can't seem to discuss him without saying "oh yeah, what about the other guy?"

 

Now...why couldn't Mario beat Sebastian Vollmer...or Nate Solder?

LOL! This discussion began with saying how the Texans didn't need him because they had JJ Watt.

 

Without going back and looking at each play, I couldn't tell you why.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Can't seem to discuss him without saying "oh yeah, what about the other guy?"

 

Uhhh…

[Mr. WEO]

Yes, because you believed AH wasn't that stupid, right doc?

 

Look, the best you're going to get is that the Texans couldn't afford Mario. Had he stayed, he'd have at-worst been the 2nd best player on their defense. If you think he wouldn't have helped them, well, that's your bag.

 

 

Sorry. I was going to respond to you with a separate reply but didn't, and didn't remove your quote.

 

No, because it was totally unbelievable on its face. I have no idea why you would believe such a thing for a second. The dumbest man on Earth would find no reason to sign a "confession" to shooting someone outside of a criminal investigation.

 

My "bag" is that Mario isn't even the 2nd best defender on the Bills; forget about where he would currently rank on the team that didn't want to pay for his continued services.

 

Let's make this simple, would you rather have Watt or Mario on the Bills right now?

Edited July 3, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[CookieG]

LOL! This discussion began with saying how the Texans didn't need him because they had JJ Watt.

 

And then you said....yeah, they could have used Mario in that game against the Pats.

 

The same Mario who did absolutely nothing in 2 games against the Pats this year.

 

If he helped the Texans as much as he did the Bills...why bother..

 

Without going back and looking at each play, I couldn't tell you why.

 

mmhm, Yep.

 

Uhhh…

 

Its not that difficult. Judge him by what HE does, or doesn't do.

 

Which would be, getting sacks against inferior competition but little else.

[biglukes]

I've never seen a fan base that tries as hard to talk themselves into hating all their good players as much as this one does. Hockey or football, it doesn't matter. We actively seek out reasons to crap all over our guys.

Edited July 3, 2013 by biglukes

[Doc]

No, because it was totally unbelievable on its face. I have no idea why you would believe such a thing for a second. The dumbest man on Earth would find no reason to sign a "confession" to shooting someone outside of a criminal investigation.

 

My "bag" is that Mario isn't even the 2nd best defender on the Bills; forget about where he would currently rank on the team that didn't want to pay for his continued services.

 

Let's make this simple, would you rather have Watt or Mario on the Bills right now?

I believed it because he's a moron. The assassination of Lloyd proves that without a doubt, dontchathink? What more is there to say here?

 

Bill in NYC would disagree with you about about there being 2 better players than MW. But just FMI, who do you think they are?

 

And obviously I'd take Watt. I wanted Watt in the 2011 draft, after a trade down, because I figured Dareus would go 2nd overall. But would you take Watt AND Mario? The answer is obvious.

And then you said....yeah, they could have used Mario in that game against the Pats.

 

The same Mario who did absolutely nothing in 2 games against the Pats this year.

 

If he helped the Texans as much as he did the Bills...why bother..

 

mmhm, Yep.

 

Its not that difficult. Judge him by what HE does, or doesn't do.

 

Which would be, getting sacks against inferior competition but little else.

Well, Mario has that in common with Watt. Oh wait, that half sack sure helped the Texans hold down the Pats.

[Mr. WEO]

I believed it because he's a moron. The assassination of Lloyd proves that without a doubt, dontchathink? What more is there to say here?

 

Bill in NYC would disagree with you about about there being 2 better players than MW. But just FMI, who do you think they are?

 

And obviously I'd take Watt. I wanted Watt in the 2011 draft, after a trade down, because I figured Dareus would go 2nd overall. But would you take Watt AND Mario? The answer is obvious.

 

Well, Mario has that in common with Watt. Oh wait, that half sack sure helped the Texans hold down the Pats.

 

The killing proves he is evil, with no regard for human life or the consequences of his crime. You were duped into believing a silly (or nonexistent, it is seeming) story. Not even a guy as dense as Marshawn Lynch would sign a confession for a crime he hasn't been charged with. Maybe that confession is locked up in the same vault as the SB walkthrough video.

 

The two best players are Byrd and Gilmore. Probably even Kyle Williams.

 

And the question of whether I would take Watt on the Bills and leave Mario on the roster too--of course but, as you pointed out earlier, this is about who is a better player/value/impact. So your question is an obfuscation.

[NoSaint]

This thread has devolved into yet another Doc vs. Weo/Hatfield vs. McCoy death-slog. I liked it better when everyone was ganging up on me for no reason.

 

Atleast its about Mario again, so it gets to feel extra repetitive

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

It's called male pattern baldness . Happens to the best of us .

[Doc]

The killing proves he is evil, with no regard for human life or the consequences of his crime. You were duped into believing a silly (or nonexistent, it is seeming) story. Not even a guy as dense as Marshawn Lynch would sign a confession for a crime he hasn't been charged with. Maybe that confession is locked up in the same vault as the SB walkthrough video.

 

The two best players are Byrd and Gilmore. Probably even Kyle Williams.

 

And the question of whether I would take Watt on the Bills and leave Mario on the roster too--of course but, as you pointed out earlier, this is about who is a better player/value/impact. So your question is an obfuscation.

A person can be evil and stupid. You must think Lynch is an evil genius because he knowingly committed hit-and-run and just got a traffic citation. But again as I said, the civil suit for the gunshot to the face, even if becomes a criminal case, is the least of AH's worries.

 

Byrd and Gilmore are excellent players. Better than Mario? Not quite.

 

And there's no obfuscation. Your contention is that Mario would add nothing to the Texans' defense. That's so silly even AH could see it. While he can also see that the Texans merely having JJ Watt isn't enough to keep them getting hammered by the Pats. The issue of money is moot because Watt is just coming off his 2nd season and has 3 more left on his contract, while Mario probably would have given the Texans a hometown discount if they seriously negotiated with them.

[BillsfaninMyrtleBeach]

In my humble opinion, the biggest "tool" is Tony Kornholer, I mean Kornheiser. Now HE is a tool!