mitchmurraydowntown Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Lol your post you saying you observe. I said you are searching that is what this whole thing is about. That is OK I forgive you. I haven't felt this much love since Father O' Flaherty was in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I haven't felt this much love since Father O' Flaherty was in town. Show me where he touched you on this doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 did Byrd and his agent make a mistake ? had they accepted the bills offer of Top 4-5 safety money he would have averaged over $8 mil/year for 5 years and had GUARANTEED MONEY over $20 million. now he has at best $6.9/mil for 1 year and GUARANTEED MONEY of $6.9 if he plays all 16 games. if they play the same game next year and the bills tag him again, he has at best $8.3/mil for another 1 year and GUARANTEED $8.3 meanwhile, they assume risk of injury and/or a drop off in play that "could" backfire on him. what if he has an off year this season ? will he be worth #1 safety money next year ? what is Byrd's leverage ? he can hold out til week #10 to avoid risk of injury. then he could pull up lame in his first practice and not play for a few more weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Show me where he touched you on this doll. Is the doll 18?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 If Byrd holds-out...I believe that will make him one of two Franchise Tag holdouts over the past two seasons (maybe I missed one...not sure)...29 total Tags...2 holdouts (that I know of)...And Byrd is...at least reportedly...going to be one (Dwayne Bowe was the other)... Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I like Byrd, but I'm really hoping the guys in camp who line up at FS look fantastic. I'm sure that's what the FO is hoping as well. That's the best leverage they can have at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Right. I guess I opened up that floodgate, so I accept my role in that part of the conversation, but I think the point is illustrated all the same. It's hard -- understandably very hard -- for the likes of most of us to understand how a guy can turn down that kind of money. But the likes of us do not have this very limited window of earning power in a game that is physically brutal and could put you in a crippled state by the time you hit your fifties. Byrd and his agent have a value that they think he's worth in a game where the owner consistently pulls in a ridiculous amount of profit on an investment he made eons ago. That same owner - or his representatives - have been unafraid to throw money at players like Mark Anderson based on hope and some decent results in a good system. Byrd has provided top 5-10 results in a horrible system with absolute schmoes in front of him at LB. Is he the best? Not likely, and it's not likely that even the highest salary at FS would remain this for long. Statements about 500% raises are really beside the point. Whether we like it or not, the NFL system is designed for teams to get very good value out of their draft picks and for those guys to get paid well if they have played well. Byrd has done just that, working at basically vet minimum but putting in top-5 play. I have no idea what he is requesting, and nor does anyone else here. Maybe they are not backing off a $9MM / annual average demand with $20MM bonus. If he's demanding a touch more than what Goldson's getting, I think he probably deserves that... And that is a lot more than $6.5MM for one season with no certainty thereafter. $6.5MM is a lot of money at once, but imagine if that were the last paycheck he ever earned if he suffered a career-ending injury, and then things get put into perspective. It might not be enough for a guy to live on presuming he may require more medical care than the average person. I am not feeling sorry for a millionaire, but nor am I feeling sorry for Ralph Wilson getting squeezed for what amounts to pocket change for him, when Ralph Wilson's only real job in life at this point is to help make this football team a winner. It's not Ralph Wilson's money. It's money allocated for player salaries. And that money is limited. So you better be sure about the players you make rich. PTR Edited July 26, 2013 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 It's not Ralph Wilson's money. It's money allocated for player salaries. And that money is limited. So you better be sure about the players you make rich. PTR Right. For example, you definitely don't want to sign a guy just to cut him a year later, wasting $8 million in the process. You better be sure about how you spend that limited, precious money. You definitely don't want $4MM of dead bonus money hitting your cap, either. But sometimes that happens. By the way, about this money that is somehow not Ralph Wilson's money, but just money that comes from magic that is allocated for player salaries: 2013 Cap Room Remaining: $18.665 million (fifth most in the league, as of July 7, 2013) (per Shutdown Corner / Yahoo) I'm sure that's what the FO is hoping as well. That's the best leverage they can have at this point. As far as I can tell, that's not really leverage - it's just plan B. The leverage is really just: play and get paid, or don't. In actuality, the Bills lose all leverage if plan B shows signs of not working out. Even if the young guys do play well, it won't change Byrd's position that he thinks he can be one of the best. And until he gets on the field, Byrd could argue that he'd be even better in this system -- not going to bat for him, but that's how he'll play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 The amazing thing is that the Bills would've taken Mark Barron over Gilmore two years ago Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Right. For example, you definitely don't want to sign a guy just to cut him a year later, wasting $8 million in the process. You better be sure about how you spend that limited, precious money. You definitely don't want $4MM of dead bonus money hitting your cap, either. But sometimes that happens. By the way, about this money that is somehow not Ralph Wilson's money, but just money that comes from magic that is allocated for player salaries: 2013 Cap Room Remaining: $18.665 million (fifth most in the league, as of July 7, 2013) (per Shutdown Corner / Yahoo) As far as I can tell, that's not really leverage - it's just plan B. The leverage is really just: play and get paid, or don't. In actuality, the Bills lose all leverage if plan B shows signs of not working out. Even if the young guys do play well, it won't change Byrd's position that he thinks he can be one of the best. And until he gets on the field, Byrd could argue that he'd be even better in this system -- not going to bat for him, but that's how he'll play it. as of today $20,660,064.00 this link is updated 4 times daily by the NFLPA: https://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 If Whaley caves into Byrds demand of he will report if not being tagged next year, he is worthless as a GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 If Whaley caves into Byrds demand of he will report if not being tagged next year, he is worthless as a GM Do you have a link regarding this demand? Also, I don't know if we need to take such a hard line on this. There can be some nuance to it. What if, for example, the Bills say "we'll agree not to tag you next year, but you need to let us match any offer made to you in 2014?" That's a perfectly reasonable side agreement to make that doesn't violate league procedures, and also doesn't preclude negotiation in-season. If I were Whaley, I'd do precisely this. It's clear that the team isn't comfortable with paying Byrd the kind of money he is looking for, but it's also clear that he can't play on anything but a one-year deal at this point. Give him the one-year deal and maybe sweeten it at the $8MM mark (perhaps more) that he is looking for annually, for 2013, make the side agreement, and let him prove his worth this year with no hard feelings. People act like these things have to be acrimonious by nature, rather than the byproduct of the system put in place by the league and the NFLPA to control costs and ensure fair compensation in a very high-stakes enterprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 If Whaley caves into Byrds demand of he will report if not being tagged next year, he is worthless as a GM Who said that Whaley is the one doing the negotiating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 From the CB interview with Mario, it sounds like Byrd does not have the playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Keeping it real, LOL. as of today $20,660,064.00 this link is updated 4 times daily by the NFLPA: https://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) The money they pissed away on mark Anderson most likely exceeds the difference between Byrd and the Bills. Ditto on fritz. But no problem paying Mckelvin 20 million more on a new contract He is not a good corner. Brad Smith must laugh when he cashes his game day checks. But hey lets keep arguing about byrds worth at FS. And get excited about the first round bust they swapped for sheppard. And believe magically he's going to be all world now. Good chance he starts day one along with McKelvin and Aaron Williams. That is the sign of poor FO management. leaving a open LG spot and signing mediocre talent to replace him with Kolb and a rookie QB and needing to keep both upright for 16 games is all I need to see as proof that Whaley is no more than equal to Nix as a GM. To think this will be a good defense with those players and ridicule the worth of Byrd is why the Bills fanbase continues to support medicore (at best) product year after year. And gets all hyped during the offseason that next year is the one. Nothing short of new ownership will stop this. maybe marrone is the next Bill Walsh. Problem is Bill Walsh had talent. The Bills have hope and not much else. The Byrd fiasco is proof the ship has no rudder, when they pass out 8 million for a single sack and 12 tackles. Then cut the guy before camp. No matter what scheme they run a good DE is always valuable. Nix set this team back to square one and the funny thing is he is still employed in whatever capacity. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Any NFL team that could start McKelvin and Aaron Williams is not going to be a good defense. Mediocre maybe. But even that I guess is an improvement over last year. Edited July 26, 2013 by Best Player Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 What business sense does it make to tilt any hand for the Bills at this point? They are not even ready to draw their cards. The point the Bills will have to call is well over 14 months away. Right now every card is in the Bills hands. Byrd and agent know this and this is why all they can do is make a poker face, puff out their chest and stand firm. There is a lot of egg on the table, one stupid move and it will be all over someones face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I believe the entire thing is a game of chicken - Parker thinks Bills will relent like they did with Clements and promise they will not tag Byrd again. That should actually be illegal since it is going around rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Right. For example, you definitely don't want to sign a guy just to cut him a year later, wasting $8 million in the process. You better be sure about how you spend that limited, precious money. You definitely don't want $4MM of dead bonus money hitting your cap, either. But sometimes that happens.. And where is that GM who made those deals today, or the DC who wanted that certain player? PTR Edited July 26, 2013 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 What business sense does it make to tilt any hand for the Bills at this point? They are not even ready to draw their cards. The point the Bills will have to call is well over 14 months away. Right now every card is in the Bills hands. Byrd and agent know this and this is why all they can do is make a poker face, puff out their chest and stand firm. There is a lot of egg on the table, one stupid move and it will be all over someones face. Smartly run teams try to resolve an issue before it becomes an issue. No one is arguing against your point that the Bills have the leverage in the negotiation with Byrd. But the end game is to keep and add talent to a lackluster roster. Why play hardball against a talented player that you drafted while overpaying for free agent players who get cut in short order. That makes no sense. Instead of being generous with the outside talent that is over rated wouldn't it be better for the sake of the team to possibly overpay a tad for a quality player alreay on your roster. Let's put things in context: The Bills have not made the playoffs in 13 consecutive years and still counting They have also have had 8 or 9 losing seasns over the past decade. Isn't having more talent better than having lesser talent? Injudiciously exercising leverage is not always the wise thing to do if you are interested in winning more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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