In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Obviously running around in shorts in OTAs don't say a lot about who is winning the QB battle, and a lot will change by the end of preseason, but based on pure numbers of reps, it appears that the coaching staff believes KK and TJ are "more ready to start" than EJ at this juncture. This is not about how TJ might've led the 1s today, followed by KK, then EJ, with tomorrow KK gets the 1st team, followed by EJ, and then TJ, etc. Every time they count off the reps, it's KK and TJ getting the bulk of the work, and EJ getting considerably less than the vets. If you combine that with EJ's confidence with the playbook (his words, inferring it's not the terminology or complexity of the scheme), quotes from the OC and HC that EJ needs lots of work, and "he's farther ahead of any rookie QB, compared with other teams that I've been associated with" (true, but not a glowing endorsement), tells me that it's more likely one of the vets will be under center on Sept 7th. EJ could kill it in TC and the preseason, and be given the keys for the opener, but IMO the coaches think he needs more grooming. Of course injuries and poor vet play at the start of the regular season could move up EJ's debut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Everyone seems to be on the EJ Manuel bandwagon. Stop to consider that Kolb may turn out to be a better pro. Something to consider as Bills fans opt for the unknown. If we have to consider that, then the organization has failed miserably by drafting a QB at #16 they don't believe is the face of the franchise. What possible reason would any Bills fan have not to be on the EJ Manuel bandwagon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 In the recent past too many rookies have started and looked fine for us to presume Manuel won't or can't be ready; he's got to be more seasoned than somebody like Tannehill, right? The Bills appear to have some smart coaches who would try to put him in the best position to succeed. I simply don't see the benefit of Kolb "winning" the job -- it would mean Manuel is struggling picking up the offense. All I can say to that is I hope the fanbase doesn't jump on him early if he makes some mistakes....the speed of the game is so much different then college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I just Googled "Kevin Kolb Fan Club" and, lo and behold, there actually were a few. Nonetheless, I'm going to have to say "count me out!" I'm sick and tired of these retreads the Bills have trotted-out there over the years (post-Kelly). I'll sink or swim with the rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) All I can say to that is I hope the fanbase doesn't jump on him early if he makes some mistakes....the speed of the game is so much different then college. Although Bills fans can be complete dickheads, I think, as a collective, they are smart enough to understand that Manuel is still in devlopement. Like I said in an earlier post, his (seemingly) superior skills could help him, and the team, have some early success, as he learns. Vince Young was kind of in the same boat when he took over the Titans job...he won a lot of games, using his ample athletic skille, despite not being a great QB. The difference is, by all accounts, Manuel is pretty bright, and coachable..two qualities that VY didn't seem to have. They drafted a "franchise QB", and they have to trust the coach, and the staff they hired to get the job done with this kid. We seem to always fall into the thinking that this or that "never happens"...but the truth is, players have been proving a lot of those old school notions wrong, for a while now. The Bills seemed to have stockpiled speedy, young receivers (granted they are all pretty much un-proven) for a reason. I know there are questions about EJ's accuracy...but there is no question about his arm strength...let him work it out. Edited June 4, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I like Kevin Kolb and hope he does well in Buffalo. Kinda doubtful he gets the start tho from my view. I would think the coaches would want EJ out there to start developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Obviously running around in shorts in OTAs don't say a lot about who is winning the QB battle, and a lot will change by the end of preseason, but based on pure numbers of reps, it appears that the coaching staff believes KK and TJ are "more ready to start" than EJ at this juncture. This is not about how TJ might've led the 1s today, followed by KK, then EJ, with tomorrow KK gets the 1st team, followed by EJ, and then TJ, etc. Every time they count off the reps, it's KK and TJ getting the bulk of the work, and EJ getting considerably less than the vets. If you combine that with EJ's confidence with the playbook (his words, inferring it's not the terminology or complexity of the scheme), quotes from the OC and HC that EJ needs lots of work, and "he's farther ahead of any rookie QB, compared with other teams that I've been associated with" (true, but not a glowing endorsement), tells me that it's more likely one of the vets will be under center on Sept 7th. EJ could kill it in TC and the preseason, and be given the keys for the opener, but IMO the coaches think he needs more grooming. Of course injuries and poor vet play at the start of the regular season could move up EJ's debut... The bolded statement above is pure, unadulterated conjecture on your part. Why anyone would believe a QB competition is conducted and/or completed based upon non-contact practices in helmets and shorts is beyond me. Some believe, as you, that the "rep count" indicates who the staff believes is "more ready" to play. Others believe they are just giving Manuel less so as to not overburden him as he learns the system. Still others believe the staff knows Manuel is a given, so they are giving more reps to the vets in an effort to see who is picking things up more quickly. The bottom line is nobody knows, and we won't until training camp and preseason are upon us. The clear trend is to start 1st round QBs immediately. It would be the exception, not the rule, for Manuel to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If we have to consider that, then the organization has failed miserably by drafting a QB at #16 they don't believe is the face of the franchise. What possible reason would any Bills fan have not to be on the EJ Manuel bandwagon? Not necessarily. What if Kolb regains the "promise" that netted the Eagles a 2nd and a starting CB a couple years back? EJ might be good to begin with but Kolb could finally get his crap together and then the Bills have assets at the most important position in all of sports. Just one reason why I'm rooting for Kolb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Let's see what we have. Two journeymen QBs, neither have stuck, after each being given huge chances by their last two stops. A rookie QB that is at least a year, probably two years away. An offensive line that has taken a huge step back after losing its best lineman, best depth lineman and replaced them with UFAs. A TE corp that is way below mediocre and its best player is coming off major surgery and may not be full speed till half way through the season. One established WR (a #2 on most teams), a second year guy with bad hands, and three rookies. A backfield with two gifted RBs and no FB. Throw in a O Coordinator with zero pro experience and is younger than some rookies, add in a completely new offense that requires experienced lineman. If you think Kolb, TJax or Manuel is the answer you are answering the wrong question. The question is outside of RB is there one area of depth or experience in this offense. That answer is no. This offense will be a cluster F till midway through the season after which it may achieve mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Let's see what we have. Two journeymen QBs, neither have stuck, after each being given huge chances by their last two stops. A rookie QB that is at least a year, probably two years away. An offensive line that has taken a huge step back after losing its best lineman, best depth lineman and replaced them with UFAs. A TE corp that is way below mediocre and its best player is coming off major surgery and may not be full speed till half way through the season. One established WR (a #2 on most teams), a second year guy with bad hands, and three rookies. A backfield with two gifted RBs and no FB. Throw in a O Coordinator with zero pro experience and is younger than some rookies, add in a completely new offense that requires experienced lineman. If you think Kolb, TJax or Manuel is the answer you are answering the wrong question. The question is outside of RB is there one area of depth or experience in this offense. That answer is no. This offense will be a cluster F till midway through the season after which it may achieve mediocrity. How many points do you think they'll score this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Let's see what we have. Two journeymen QBs, neither have stuck, after each being given huge chances by their last two stops. A rookie QB that is at least a year, probably two years away. An offensive line that has taken a huge step back after losing its best lineman, best depth lineman and replaced them with UFAs. A TE corp that is way below mediocre and its best player is coming off major surgery and may not be full speed till half way through the season. One established WR (a #2 on most teams), a second year guy with bad hands, and three rookies. A backfield with two gifted RBs and no FB. Throw in a O Coordinator with zero pro experience and is younger than some rookies, add in a completely new offense that requires experienced lineman. If you think Kolb, TJax or Manuel is the answer you are answering the wrong question. The question is outside of RB is there one area of depth or experience in this offense. That answer is no. This offense will be a cluster F till midway through the season after which it may achieve mediocrity. I don't believe there are many 33 year old rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I don't believe there are many 33 year old rookies. Shhh. He's on a roll.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Willing to bet TJax over Kolb. I think he is the better QB for the Hackett offensive scheme. Question is, when TJax starts (at least the first few games), does Kolb even make the roster. i think there's an off chance that Kolb surprises, but your most likely correct. TJax and EJ have the same type of skill set and play style anyway. Would be a much easier transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The bolded statement above is pure, unadulterated conjecture on your part. Why anyone would believe a QB competition is conducted and/or completed based upon non-contact practices in helmets and shorts is beyond me. Some believe, as you, that the "rep count" indicates who the staff believes is "more ready" to play. Others believe they are just giving Manuel less so as to not overburden him as he learns the system. Still others believe the staff knows Manuel is a given, so they are giving more reps to the vets in an effort to see who is picking things up more quickly. The bottom line is nobody knows, and we won't until training camp and preseason are upon us. The clear trend is to start 1st round QBs immediately. It would be the exception, not the rule, for Manuel to sit. I thought I clarified "more ready based on rep count" as IMO; of course it's pure conjecture! Did I even hint that the QB competition is conducted or completed in OTAs? I don't think so, and I certainly didn't mean to. I don't have any stats, but there's not many instances (again IMO) where a coaching staff sits their perceived best player (especially if he's a rookie), and consistently gives more 1st team reps with the 2nd and 3rd tier vets to see who is picking things up quicker. The less-reps-so-as-not-to-overburden-the-rookie? Possible, but the only way he's gonna learn is by taking reps, if you buy into the trend. You can argue about the trend, and clearly the most talented rookie QBs will see the field, compared to the watch-and-learn strategies of the past. However, they have to first prove that they're the best option, especially since the current CBA has eliminated the historically exorbitant rookie contracts. Of course there's a lot of camp ahead and preseason games to be played, EJ could rise to the top, and I hope he does. I'm just saying, based on the current snapshot, rep counts and press conference quotes seem to indicate where they're at right now. I do agree with your statement that nobody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I doubt Kolb can last an entire season, he does not seem to be physically able to withstand punishment QBs take even with good OL and ours has questions. Whomever is chosen at QB will spend time being hit and trying to throw ball with defense player draped on him. Fritz was a QB in the Jim Kelly mold for toughness and I believe many of the lines faults were disguised. I am hoping for the best but expecting to need one, two or even three QBs this year with no QB on inactive list entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm not sure how good of a quarterback he'll be but I think he is the only QB we have had that goes out on hunts and kills wild pigs with nothing but a big old knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I am a fan of any QB wearing a Bills jersey. But Kolb hasn't given me any reason (yet) to be a bigger fan of him than of EJ, TJ or Tuel. very Zen. Well said , In Seattle . Just because he was drafted in the first round of a very weak QB class doesn't mean he is going to be good.. I think some of us pin too high of hope on him, If Kolb gets the starting nod, and plays well he should remain the starter until Manual is ( if ever ) fully ready.. I hope Manual does become a pro bowler, but I also hope he sits / learns / and works on his knowledge and technique before we put him in just because he was drafted in the first round and thats the way its "supposed" to be.. I'll root for which ever QB is in the game and hope they win... and this . If Kolb isn't the weakest link in the offense, why rush Manuel? Was Aaron Rogers rushed into the Packer's lineup? I guess the question is, is Kolb equivalent to an aging Favre? You may not be accounting for the fact that the Cardinal's O-line was a sieve. Kolb played better in Philly behind a competent O-line. You sir Are Not A Number you are Free Man has also made great point . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Packers still had Favre and drafted Rodgers at the end of the 1st specifically to groom him over time. He's the exception, not the rule. In a different thread I laid out the statistics that since 2008 (last five drafts prior to this one) a significant majority of QBs drafted in the 1st round started in Week 1 of their rookie seasons. I fully expect Manuel to push for and win the starting job in camp, and if it's close, there's no reason not to start him. Because we may have a subpar O line to start the season. and he could have an rg3 moment,There are more i can assure you. If'n Kolb or Jackson can stabilize the offense while the defense gets it's groove on , why the hell not let them drive the wagons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I totally agree. There is no way kolb doesn't start week 1 as long as he's not injured. Has he never not been injured? This guy will be out due to injury by game 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Cmon man! Have non of you considered.... the BEARD?!?! No way EJ wins that competition this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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