Cannot believe the lack of respect for Levitre from this board

[dave mcbride]

So, the Bills pooh-poohed the PFF rankings and the Titans didn't?

 

Well, I hope Andy didn't use PFF in his pitch because he would have gotten top-9 money instead of top-4 cash.

 

From PFF themselves:

 

Andy Levitre (OG) to TEN: 6-year, $46.8m deal

 

"We like Levitre. He was our ninth ranked guard and can really hold up in the pass blocking game. But is he a player that is going to be the difference between the Titans winning and losing games? In all honesty no. He’s not a difference maker in the run game, and while good in space, he’s getting considerably more money than guards like Evan Mathis and Ben Grubbs who are just far better players. The Titans got their man, but at the end of the day, they’ve spent a lot of money over a long period without pushing their team on."

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

To be fair, 9 out of 64 is pretty good.

[Kelly the Dog]

So, the Bills pooh-poohed the PFF rankings and the Titans didn't?

 

Well, I hope Andy didn't use PFF in his pitch because he would have gotten top-9 money instead of top-4 cash.

 

I was actually just making a joke, that if the numbers look good from a respectable place like PFF the agent will use them in negotiations and the team will pooh-pooh them, and if the numbers look bad from a place like that the agent will pooh-pooh them and the team will use them. But I do think that PFF has gained some cache in the last two years or so and it enters the equation in negotiations with players.

[HeHateMe]

though i really liked Levitre, he wasn't dominant. He was good, but not dominant. At 8mil/year I want/expect dominance. The bills offensive line time and time again had 3rd and shorts or 4th and inches and consistently failed to gain a few inches in the running game. Levitre was part of that offensive line that when push came to shove, got pushed around.

 

Wish him nothing but the best.

 

I agree, while the line these past 2 seasons has been good in general at opening lanes for the RBs and protecting Fitz (even though it helps a ton that he throws it under 3 seconds everytime) they NEVER were able to pick up short yardage on the ground.

[K-9]

The one caveat that needs to be stated, however, is that Levitre was the top rated Guard in FA this season. Limited supply and high demand = overpaying.

 

Wallace is probably not even in the top 15 at WR in the NFL, yet look what he got paid. He was the biggest name WR in FA right now, that's why.

 

I'd rather not grossly overpay however and think the Bills made a tough, tough choice..but the right one.

 

I once heard a very good defnition of the term "overpaid." Essentially, if signing a player means you won't be able to sign others to help your team, then that player is overpaid. In the Bills case that's what it meant. Perhaps it didn't mean that to the Titans given the respective conditions of both teams.

 

And your point about supply and demand is spot on. Andy couldn't have had better timing to cash in. And good for him, too.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[mrags]

 

 

Billy Shaw. Hands down. Only player HOFer that never played a down in the NFL.

 

GO BILLS!!!

pretty sure there is one more as well. I swear I saw both of them when I went to the HOF in 09'. There was a really nice setup for them in the AFL portion of the HOF.

[Rob's House]

 

 

I agree, while the line these past 2 seasons has been good in general at opening lanes for the RBs and protecting Fitz (even though it helps a ton that he throws it under 3 seconds ) they NEVER were able to pick up short yardage on the ground.

That's the damn truth. And LG is one of the primary positions where you want to get that kind of push, but Levitre rarely delivered in that department.

[Kelly the Dog]

I once heard a very good defnition of the term "overpaid." Essentially, if signing a player means you won't be able to sign others to help your team, then that player is overpaid. In the Bills case that's what it meant. Perhaps it didn't mean that to the Titans given the respective conditions of both teams.

 

And your point about supply and demand is spot on. Andy couldn't have had better timing to cash in. And good for him, too.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Agreed. And part of it is who do they get to replace him. If the Bills sign a Brandon Moore as a starter for less money and then get Manny Lawson at a need position, too, it's probably a good move. If they don't replace him with a solid starter and the team suffers then perhaps not. But again, it's a matter of who the player is and how he plays that is the determining factor. It's easy to say a 4m OG and 4m LB are better for the Bills than an 8m Levitre, but if both of those 4m players are just average, that simply isn't true.

[K-9]

I was actually just making a joke, that if the numbers look good from a respectable place like PFF the agent will use them in negotiations and the team will pooh-pooh them, and if the numbers look bad from a place like that the agent will pooh-pooh them and the team will use them. But I do think that PFF has gained some cache in the last two years or so and it enters the equation in negotiations with players.

 

No doubt that's the nature of negotiations.

 

I'm not sure about how much cache PFF has in front offices around the league. I've heard that there is a fair amount of resentment, actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

To be fair, 9 out of 64 is pretty good.

 

I think the Bills may have considered him at top-9 money.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BringBackFergy]

I can't believe the OP asks why there is no respect for Levitre when we have all posted for the better part of 4 weeks that he and Byrd should be re-signed. Then, to top it off, Levitre says the Bills haven't contacted him with an offer. Obviously, they knew they could not play ball with the ransom he was asking.

 

Respect??? I have shown respect by saying he was a quality guard; but I have yet to hear him say, tweet or write in sanskrit how he liked Buffalo and thanks to the fans. I assume he is now gorging himself on some quality Memphis Bar-B-Q with sauce dripping all over his face. I don't feel sorry for him.

[Kelly the Dog]

No doubt that's the nature of negotiations.

 

I'm not sure about how much cache PFF has in front offices around the league. I've heard that there is a fair amount of resentment, actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

I think the Bills may have considered him at top-9 money.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Right. The Bills probably offered him a great contract but he knew he could get more and did on the open market. They probably offered him around 7m.

 

It's not much different than the Jason Peters situation. Regardless of a lot of fans misreading of the situation, the Bills wanted him and he wanted to stay. He just felt he was worth 10 mil a year and the Bills thought he was worth 9 mil a year and didn't want to pay him more. So they didn't and Philly paid him 10m a year where he felt more wanted because they offered him more money. It's not always selfish. These guys have huge egos, and rightfully so, and the more a team offers you the more they feel wanted. You could see it clearly in Manny Lawson's comments today.

[BillsWatch]

When we lost 2 left tackles, Peters and the guy who could decide how to spell his name (so why should I look up the spelling), everyone was going crazy. We all said Peters was the best left tackle since Ballard. (that was crappola)

 

Not all. Sometimes you act like the 'Moral Majority' and assume everyone agrees with you.

There were a number of people who did not think he was hassle he was worth with holding out and all.

 

Neither of those guys could stay on the field, but Levitre since day one walk on the field into position and stayed there.

We have significantly weakened our team because of Brandon's budget. We do not have a cap issue, only a Ralph spending issue.

Nonsense again. The Bills like all of the teams have a hard cap now and it is harder on smaller revenue teams since they need to meet standard or lose funding and NO team is going to do that.

 

Now not only do we need to fill our LB positions, and QB now we begin the tearing down of the Oline. We have a poor D line to start thanks to money man Mario deciding not to play with his limp wrist.

How can a team get better when it tears itself apart every year.

We should all be irate about Levitre.

I cannot find one strength for this team...except the fans.

 

Certainly your memory is not a strength and fans lightening torches is not strength.

 

Now everyone will blame OL reduction on rating on Levitre leaving but new OL coach (OL coach seemed to know what he was doing) and change in scheme from where QB threw ball quickly will be as big factors as Levitre being gone.

[xsoldier54]

When we lost 2 left tackles, Peters and the guy who could decide how to spell his name (so why should I look up the spelling), everyone was going crazy. We all said Peters was the best left tackle since Ballard. (that was crappola)

Neither of those guys could stay on the field, but Levitre since day one walk on the field into position and stayed there.

We have significantly weakened our team because of Brandon's budget. We do not have a cap issue, only a Ralph spending issue.

Now not only do we need to fill our LB positions, and QB now we begin the tearing down of the Oline. We have a poor D line to start thanks to money man Mario deciding not to play with his limp wrist.

How can a team get better when it tears itself apart every year.

We should all be irate about Levitre.

I cannot find one strength for this team...except the fans.

Levitre was a good and durable player, no argument there. Was he worth $8 million a year? Not likely. Tennessee overpaid for him and I'm happy that the Bills did not. They could easily draft a guard that will be every bit as good as Levitre and pay a fraction of the cost. They can use that extra money to fill other holes on a team that has plenty of holes to fill. i think Levitre is a good player, but this team has too many needs to commit that much money to a guard.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

When we lost 2 left tackles, Peters and the guy who could decide how to spell his name (so why should I look up the spelling), everyone was going crazy. We all said Peters was the best left tackle since Ballard. (that was crappola)

Neither of those guys could stay on the field, but Levitre since day one walk on the field into position and stayed there.

We have significantly weakened our team because of Brandon's budget. We do not have a cap issue, only a Ralph spending issue.

Now not only do we need to fill our LB positions, and QB now we begin the tearing down of the Oline. We have a poor D line to start thanks to money man Mario deciding not to play with his limp wrist.

How can a team get better when it tears itself apart every year.

We should all be irate about Levitre.

I cannot find one strength for this team...except the fans.

 

+1,000,000. I'd frame this if I could.

[Dorkington]

We have about 4 starting caliber players on this team. Why would we want 5?

[Perk71]

I see it more like Poz. A good player who would have been nice to keep, but got paid more than he was worth by someone else.

 

This is my thinking as well.

[DDD]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I see this similar to Clements leaving...good player to have but at times you have to make tough decisions when players are looking to cash in on those big contracts. One thing about the Nix regime is that they have retained their guys over the past few years, Levitre is the first guy they've really let walk, so I'll reserve judgment until it starts becoming a trend.

 

Retaining guys like Fitzpatrick, Merriman, Kelsay, and now McKelvin?

[dave mcbride]

No doubt that's the nature of negotiations.

 

I'm not sure about how much cache PFF has in front offices around the league. I've heard that there is a fair amount of resentment, actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

I think the Bills may have considered him at top-9 money.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I work in the book business, and I can tell you that literary agents hate Bookscan. It gives relatively accurate sales figures of past books, and agents hate when you can trot out hard data in negotiations because they're hoping to get you to overpay based on emotion, puffery, and numerical flim-flam.

 

I can see the same in the NFL, particularly with regard to agents. I have to think that they hate advanced statistical analysis.

[thebandit27]

We have about 4 starting caliber players on this team. Why would we want 5?

 

I realize that hyperbole can be fun, but come on:

 

CJ

Freddie

Stevie

Glenn

Wood

Urbik

Chandler

Mario

K Williams

Dareus

Gilmore

Byrd

 

And that's playing it safe and not including guys like Anderson, Bradham, Lawson, etc.

 

It's not nearly as dire a picture as you paint. Besides, as I've said a gajillion times: find the right QB, and a lot of problems go away.

[K-9]

I work in the book business, and I can tell you that literary agents hate Bookscan. It gives relatively accurate sales figures of past books, and agents hate when you can trot out hard data in negotiations because they're hoping to get you to overpay based on emotion, puffery, and numerical flim-flam.

 

I can see the same in the NFL, particularly with regard to agents. I have to think that they hate advanced statistical analysis.

 

Interesting insight there.

 

With regard to pro football, I know that there are some player personnel people who've spent years beating the bricks, breaking down film, talking to coaches and scouts, and breaking down more film who don't like the idea of somebody's breakdown of TV coverage even being remotely associated with the ability to provide the level of critique required to make an informed decision whether to invest millions of dollars on a player, make a claim off waivers, or anything in between.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting insight there.

 

With regard to pro football, I know that there are some player personnel people who've spent years beating the bricks, breaking down film, talking to coaches and scouts, and breaking down more film who don't like the idea of somebody's breakdown of TV coverage even being remotely associated with the ability to provide the level of critique required to make an informed decision whether to invest millions of dollars on a player, make a claim off waivers, or anything in between.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I'm not sure if you have ever listened to the guy that started/runs PFF but he basically says the same thing. He says those guys you're talking about should still be the one you listen to, and you should never mistake what he does for the human element of watching film on a player, and to only use what he does as a further tool to expand on what you see on film and in person.