NewEra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 0 QBs on the roster may be better than having 1 Ryan Fitzpatrick. If you have 0 Qbs you can add three and have 3 chances on improving....If you have 1 Ryan Fitzpatrick you have 1 bad qb and 2 chances and finding a replacement. Sorry but keeping Fitz is just prolonging mediocrity, at least a season of being completely awful allows us a top 5 pick. CJ is our best offensive weapon and Fitz has absolutely no ability towards providing a down field threat and keeping defenses being honest. Lets not forget that we have a new coaching staff that is might to want there QB to be able to be able to make NFL caliber passes, which requires arm strength and accuracy. Chan was willing to adjust his offense to his QB's handicaps which is a big reason he is no longer coaching. Fitz is a career backup. he's smart and can learn an offense without the majority of repetitions, he can finish a game and beat bad teams for you. He is awful in the clutch and cannot win games for your team, which is what you look for in a QB. No team is going to keep a backup with that contract. Yessir!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 There is a big difference between cap money and real money so there is absolutely an advantage to releasing him. It amazes me that people don't get this Fitz's contract is not guaranteed so the Bills can save 10.45 mil in real money which is obviously a lot especially for a team like the Bills You don't keep a player simply bc it won't save the team much salary cap space. The only reason to keep Fitz would be as a mentor and backup to a younger QB but it certainly shouldn't and won't be at 10.45 mil What if you cut him with the intention to draft someone and 4 guys get taken 1-7. We are stuck with option number 4 and Jamarcus Russel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 1) Why would he agree to a restructure? What's in it for him? Cur him? Bills got no QBs then. A fith rate chump QB just cost the Bills triple what he'd get anywhere else. 2) Backup? Backup who? What QB do the Bills have that he is going to back up? HELLO.....FITZ IS TERRIBLE!!!!! NO NEED TO KEEP A TERRIBLE QB.....EVEN IF HE'S THE ONLY QB. Get any QB that has a chance to NOT be terrible. We already know fitz IS terrible. Gut him ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) We all pretty much agree that Fitz "sucketh". I get that and I'm not going to argue that. However, I'm looking at this purely from a realistic perspective. We all know Fitz is due $3M soon. And, there seems to be a lot of "wallers", prognosticators, and so-called media experts that believe Fitz will be cut soon. I don't buy it one bit and here's why. The Bills gain a minute cap benefit in 2013 by cutting Fitz now... it's essentially a near wash on the cap. He counts $10M against the cap if he's cut and 10.45M if the Bills keep him in 2013. By cutting Fitz now, it would leave the Bills with zero (0) QBs on the roster (I apologize to those of you that are offended by me not regarding Brad Smith as a QB, but stay tough and you'll get over it). Does anyone really believe the Bills would leave themselves that vulnerable at QB given their situation. I mean, really, do think that having no QBs on their roster would not be a clear advantage to any (yes, any) free agent QB or team that wanted to move/trade a QB to the Bills. Do you really believe the Bills would give away that kind of leverage? Really? The other part of the reality is that it is well publicized the Bills will be drafting a QB in Rd. 1-3. If it turns out to be in the 3rd, do you believe the kid is gonna be ready. Even if it is Rd. 1 or two, do you believe the kid is gonna be ready now? Even if the Bills get their guy at #8, the best odds are about a 50/50 chance he'd start day one... and that's if he doesn't hold out or get hurt in training camp (remember JP collision with Troy Vincent in training camp ??). Who steps in if that happens? Like it or not, the more reasonable approach and probability is that the Bills will keep Fitz for 2013. They know what they have and they "Billieve" they can milk it for one season with him. You may recall, his new OC was Fitz QB coach for his 4 starts at the end of the 09 season, so, there is a history, and who knows, there may be some level of comfort for both guys. I foresee the coaching staff starting Fitz to begin with regardless of who they draft and when. I also believe a much greater emphasis will be placed on the running game and bringing in a big speed receiver and a couple of tight ends (ya... ones that can get open and catch and ones that they will actually throw to). Those are clear needs regardless of who the QB is. Plus, a defense that does not put the QB in crap situations will be a huge game changer and also take some heat off Fitz. The 2012 Bills defense was one of the worst in its history. Hell, if the defense improves to just 14th in the league and more emphasis on the run with Spiller, and the WR/TE additions, that's good for at least 3 more W's if Fitz is driving the car. I can also see the Bills bringing in a journeyman QB for some semblance of insurance. Perhaps a Seneca Wallace or David Garrard... or someone of that ilk that will accept their role and salary. I would be stunned if the Bills cut Fitz at this juncture and if it doesn't go down somewhat this way for 2013 and the coaching staff then gauges Fitz's effectiveness in deciding if/when to send him to the bench. 2014 will be a different story. Fitz may either have to take a pay cut or be cut loose after 2013. But, I just can't believe the Bills would leave themselves so vulnerable at QB, and with a new staff. While I understand your premise, the single most obvious rebuttal would be to simply say...If Maronne does not want Fitz back The Bills most certainly would cut him, and do the best they could to fill those 3 QB spots through Free Agency, Trade, and the Draft... Consider this...Fitz had a total of 7 games in 2012 where his QB rating was 85 or above...Nick Foles, a 3rd Round Pick that was not expected to play at all, had a QB Rating of 85 or above in 5 of his 7 Starts...Is it really going to be that hard to find a QB that can match Fitz? We really have no idea what Maronne and Hackett think of Fitz...Now...I'm not saying Bills fans know better...But I do know the majority of Bills fans feel Fitz is not good enough...Period...So I think it would be premature to assume Maronne will be OK having Fitz back...Under any circumstance...There is more to this...There are Vets in the locker room that are loyal to Fitz...It could cause problems a Rookie HC wants nothing to do with, especially if they save ANY money by cutting him... I think the Fitz situation is going to be 100% Marrone's call...We'll see... Edited January 25, 2013 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan4ever14580 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 So this year our team President is selling the unknown. What is yet to be determined is the level of success that the new coaching staff will be able to achieve. One thing that is known is Fitz. Fitz and his skills are a known commodity that barely anybody would pay to see. Russ and his team have a blank check and they won't use that blank check to pay money, either bonus or salary, to a player barely anyone is interested in seeing anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I'd cut him and pick up a guy like Matt Moore, while grooming a rookie QB. Don't know why more people dont like Matt Moore, I think he would be better than Fitz as a backup. Draft Nassib (or whoever) and Moore we will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Bills Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Don't know why more people dont like Matt Moore, I think he would be better than Fitz as a backup. Draft Nassib (or whoever) and Moore we will be ok. Moore isnt going to sign with buffalo knowing he'll be playing the mentor role again. He wants to start. If no teams offer him a starting spot he will more than likely remain I'n Miami . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No way is a new coach, for a troubled franchise, gonna let Fitzpatrick put him under further scrutiny. Fitz is SO gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 There is a big difference between cap money and real money so there is absolutely an advantage to releasing him. It amazes me that people don't get this Fitz's contract is not guaranteed so the Bills can save 10.45 mil in real money which is obviously a lot especially for a team like the Bills You don't keep a player simply bc it won't save the team much salary cap space. The only reason to keep Fitz would be as a mentor and backup to a younger QB but it certainly shouldn't and won't be at 10.45 mil This!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 good luck selling tickets if fitz is the guy next year would you stop with that arguement...the bills have sucked for 13 years and we still but the tickets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think they cut all the QB's on the roster except Fitz. As bad as he looked in some games he wasn't the biggest problem on the team. It was the defense that plagued the team most of the year. Finally after the season was lost they actually started to show some life. Chan Gailey trying to run the same smoke and mirrors plays over and over with the only decent WR in those 5 WR empty backfield sets was another problem. Marrone has his work cut out for him to purge all the bums from the Gailey era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 He'll get cut. The above post about picking up a QB in free agency and one in draft will happen. Madrone just watched a Bills coach get fired for hiring poorly on defense in coaching and latching his horse to Fitz. You get one shot when your new to clean up your team. Matrons hired Petine. That should tell you he is paying attn to previous mistakes. It was Wanny not talent that was the demise for our defense. We need more talent, but we were so bad due to very poor scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 1) Why would he agree to a restructure? What's in it for him? Cur him? Bills got no QBs then. A fith rate chump QB just cost the Bills triple what he'd get anywhere else. 2) Backup? Backup who? What QB do the Bills have that he is going to back up? He would restructure because he knows no other team will pay him what he's getting paid now. And he likes it here. His best bet would be to restructure as opposed to being cut. Even you admit he got way more here than he would have gotten anywhere else. I don't know who he would back up. Maybe Alex Smith, maybe a rookie. I just know he's not going to be the starter here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hmm. Levitre, Byrd to sign, and in addition, Alex Smith? How would the Bills pay for that? Why would any QB come in to play for 1 year. Alex Smith had a good year, but like Fitz, he doesn't go down field... he also had a damn good defense plus Crabtree and Moss. Give any QB that and they are going to fare pretty well. Put Smith on Gailey's Bills, is there really a dime's difference in he and Fitz or the results. Smith was managed very tightly the past two seasons, but still could not hang on to his job. I doubt he wants to play behind a young gun again. This. Smith succeeded under Harbaugh because Harbaugh put him in a position to win. The 49ers were one of two playoff teams that actually ran significantly more than they passed in 2011. Under that regime (run first, pass only when it's there) Smith's completion percentage soared and he became an effective QB. He still fell short in the playoffs, and when a better QB emerged it was "thank you, have a seat". Under Gailey's system I'm fairly confident Smith would have crapped the bed, as he did in SF before Harbaugh. I can't say what the Bills will do, but the OP has a good point that to enter the draft and FA with no QB on the roster would put the Bills in a poor bargaining position with FA, indeed. Here is an article spelling out the details that indeed, the Bills will only save about $500,000 by cutting Fitzpatrick before his roster bonus is due. It is possible they would ask him to restructure, but in any case, $500,000 is not a lot to pay to have leverage bargaining with FA. I believe the posters who think the Bills will save $10.45 million in "real money" by cutting Fitz are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think you have to cut cords with Fitzpatrick. The only value he'd have is as a very good backup QB - but, he's not making backup QB money. He'd have to be willing to take a pay cut. The thing is, with Fitz, he's looked good in practice and sporadically, but the one thing you can count on is that he'll end up disappointing, or falling short. What the Bills need is a fresh start. They need to be a totally new offense next year - with a QB who is capable of making all the throws. I'm psyched about the idea of a recent era Saints meets old Bill's K-Gun offense; having Spiller, Jackson, and Johnson, with our O-line, gives us a good start. A couple of big, sure-handed WR's and a QB, and this is a difficult offense to match up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 OP - agree with your post. I think you missed one important point though - if we sign another veteran like a Alex Smith type of player I think he gets cut. They will go with 1 B-C list veteran, 1 D list like a Thigpen and 1 rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I agree with some of this. I too think they'll keep Fitz (no real advantage to releasing him), but I also feel they will go after someone like Alex Smith or Matt Flynn, plus draft a QB and let them all go for the starting job, similar to how Seattle did it last year. Doesn't make much sense to pay Fitz $10mil next year AND sign a veteran AND draft a rookie. Two out of those three, yes. I'd cut him and pick up a guy like Matt Moore, while grooming a rookie QB. I tend to favor this route as well. Moore, Alex Smith, maybe a trade for Matt Flynn... I don't think Moore or Smith would be appreciably better than Fitz (Flynn is a total wildcard, but I wouldn't count on him as an upgrade till we saw it), but they'd cost less than $10mil and would have the added benefit of not being the entrenched starter. If Fitz gets beat out by a rookie next year, and the rookie struggles, it might divide the locker room. If Matt Moore gets beat out, there'll be a lot less veterans to get his back. On the other hand, I don't really like any of the QBs in this draft, which makes me want to start whomever we draft. Either I'm proved wrong, and we've got our guy, or I'm proved right, and we're able to move on and draft a new guy in 2014. Either way, I'd like to get a good idea of what we've got. I don't want another Todd Collins situation where we "groom" him on the bench for 2 years only to find out that he can't actually play. Of course, Collins was sitting behind Kelly, so it made a lot of sense to develop a young QB that way. But I think I would rather throw a rookie into the fire than have him sit behind Fitz or Moore or Smith. This. Smith succeeded under Harbaugh because Harbaugh put him in a position to win. The 49ers were one of two playoff teams that actually ran significantly more than they passed in 2011. Under that regime (run first, pass only when it's there) Smith's completion percentage soared and he became an effective QB. He still fell short in the playoffs, and when a better QB emerged it was "thank you, have a seat". Under Gailey's system I'm fairly confident Smith would have crapped the bed, as he did in SF before Harbaugh. I can't say what the Bills will do, but the OP has a good point that to enter the draft and FA with no QB on the roster would put the Bills in a poor bargaining position with FA, indeed. Here is an article spelling out the details that indeed, the Bills will only save about $500,000 by cutting Fitzpatrick before his roster bonus is due. It is possible they would ask him to restructure, but in any case, $500,000 is not a lot to pay to have leverage bargaining with FA. I believe the posters who think the Bills will save $10.45 million in "real money" by cutting Fitz are mistaken. The article you linked is talking only about cap savings, not about cash savings. This article (and this one, which the first one links to) talks about the guarantees in his deal, and if they're accurate, there aren't any guarantees against skill left. In other words, the Bills don't have to pay out any more actual cash if they cut Fitzpatrick. There would still be a $10.45 million charge against their salary cap, but they wouldn't have to cut a check. Given the new regime and the very real cash savings of cutting Fitz (Moore or Smith could probably be signed for something in the neighborhood of $5mil this year, including signing bonus), I am expecting him to be cut next month. But the Bills have surprised me before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Actually the time for a Reality Check was this time last year, and that is where Buddy Nix dropped the ball in a big way. Why does he still have a job here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think by cutting Fitz it opens the door to drafting 2 QB's. I wouldnt mind that and sign someone like Campbell. I agree that Smith might not want to come here to play for 1 year. CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Moore isnt going to sign with buffalo knowing he'll be playing the mentor role again. He wants to start. If no teams offer him a starting spot he will more than likely remain I'n Miami . Sounds good to me, He's worthless as far as I'm concerned. Don't want or need him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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