Mike McCoy + Vick/A.Smith

[RK_BillsFan]

Hello everyone. This is my first Topic Post, second post ever. Been reading on the site for about a year now. I apologize if this is a repeat thread. I know I've seen stuff about each of these people individually, but not together.

 

I am hoping we land Mike McCoy as our next HC. What he was able to do with Tebow and Manning changing the offence from 1 yr to the next to best suit the QB is nothing short of miraculous. I would love for him to be the Bills next HC because he could easily build an Offence to work with whatever our QB situation is next yr. With that said I would like to move onto the other 2 names.

 

Vick and Alex Smith. Both can be viewed as non-elite but at least above average QBs in the league A. Smith won't wow anyone with his numbers, but last year and this year prior to his injury, he was efficient. I feel like he would be an excellent pick up in the off season as a slight upgrade to Fitz while we draft a QB at some point.

 

As for Vick. I have read a ton of posts here that say he is a turn over machine and yes he does seem to be 1 concussion away from thinking he's back in grade school. But from what I saw all season, while he was playing the majority of those hits came from being sacked due to extremely poor O-line play not from his scrambling. The Bills o-line, while not the best ( their stats are somewhat the product of the scheme Gaily was using), can easily be considered better than Philly's line. I think, given just an extra 2 seconds to make throws and not be scared for his life, Vick would easily be a serviceable QB for us while we groom a successor that we pick up in the Draft.

 

McCoy took Tebow to and won a playoff game, you have to imagine he could do better with either Smith or Vick. I also, and i'm sure i might be blasted for this, don't think we should get a QB in the first round. The quality is simply not there. If Russell Wilson was in this years draft, i have no doubt he would be a first rounder, with a stupid note about his size next to his name being his questionable downsize. I would be all for a QB in the second or third, with some trading around, perhaps, trading back in the third, forth and fifth to get a really late second? The talent level at other positions are simply way to good. If we could get away with a LB in the first and then a WR/LB/(D anything) in the second and a QB in the third, I could not be happier.

 

Little bored at work today, so I hope we can have a good discussion about this and any other point someone might bring up.

[Bangarang]

A broken down Vick and a game manager Smith. Oh joy.

[mjt328]

Hello everyone. This is my first Topic Post, second post ever. Been reading on the site for about a year now. I apologize if this is a repeat thread. I know I've seen stuff about each of these people individually, but not together.

 

I am hoping we land Mike McCoy as our next HC. What he was able to do with Tebow and Manning changing the offence from 1 yr to the next to best suit the QB is nothing short of miraculous. I would love for him to be the Bills next HC because he could easily build an Offence to work with whatever our QB situation is next yr. With that said I would like to move onto the other 2 names.

 

Vick and Alex Smith. Both can be viewed as non-elite but at least above average QBs in the league A. Smith won't wow anyone with his numbers, but last year and this year prior to his injury, he was efficient. I feel like he would be an excellent pick up in the off season as a slight upgrade to Fitz while we draft a QB at some point.

 

As for Vick. I have read a ton of posts here that say he is a turn over machine and yes he does seem to be 1 concussion away from thinking he's back in grade school. But from what I saw all season, while he was playing the majority of those hits came from being sacked due to extremely poor O-line play not from his scrambling. The Bills o-line, while not the best ( their stats are somewhat the product of the scheme Gaily was using), can easily be considered better than Philly's line. I think, given just an extra 2 seconds to make throws and not be scared for his life, Vick would easily be a serviceable QB for us while we groom a successor that we pick up in the Draft.

 

McCoy took Tebow to and won a playoff game, you have to imagine he could do better with either Smith or Vick. I also, and i'm sure i might be blasted for this, don't think we should get a QB in the first round. The quality is simply not there. If Russell Wilson was in this years draft, i have no doubt he would be a first rounder, with a stupid note about his size next to his name being his questionable downsize. I would be all for a QB in the second or third, with some trading around, perhaps, trading back in the third, forth and fifth to get a really late second? The talent level at other positions are simply way to good. If we could get away with a LB in the first and then a WR/LB/(D anything) in the second and a QB in the third, I could not be happier.

 

Little bored at work today, so I hope we can have a good discussion about this and any other point someone might bring up.

 

Pretty much disagree with everything.

 

Overall, the Broncos offense was bad with Tebow. They couldn't move the ball through the air, and they didn't put up a lot of points.

People act like McCoy was able to get a lot out of a bad quarterback. He didn't. They were ranked 23rd in total offense, 31st in passing and 25th in points in 2011.

McCoy wasn't a miracle-maker. He relied on his strong running game, and the defense to keep games low scoring.

 

Switching the offense to fit Peyton Manning wasn't some huge accomplishment either.

Manning is basically his own offensive coordinator and has been running the same offense for 15+ years.

 

Alex Smith and Michael Vick are marginal upgrades - if not downgrades - from Fitz.

It's now clear that Vick's brief resurgance in 2010 was a fluke. He no longer has the athletic ability to makeup for his poor decision making and problems reading a defense.

If we cut Fitz for some reason, I wouldn't Smith as a veteran backup. But we need to be developing and evaluating a top prospect from Day One.

 

I'm also getting tired of people bashing the 2013 QB rookie class.

Despite what people are saying, this is not a bad group of prospects. It's about average. Last year (with Andrew Luck and RGIII) was exceptional because of those two players.

Throughout the year, the top two prospects have been Geno Smith and Matt Barkley. Compared to some of the last prospects:

> In 2012, both Smith and Barkley would likely have been chosen before Tannehill (who was a Top 10 pick).

> Smith is a better passer and more polished than Cam Newton was coming out of college. If it was 2011, he probably would have gone before Newton. I think Barkley would have gone before Locker, Ponder or Gabbert.

> Both probably would have been selected after Sam Bradford in 2010, but they would have certainly gone before Tebow.

[SBUffalo]

Good job, good effort. But I disagree.

[Homey D. Clown]

You must play John Madden football to think Michael Vick is a good QB, there is absolutely no factual evidence on any game film to suggest otherwise. The mind numbing man-love for micheal vick is utterly incomprehensible.

[C.Biscuit97]

Welcome to the board but I would light myself on fire if this plays out.

[RK_BillsFan]

Ok, Valid point, but looking towards a QB for us next season, who would you guys pick. I'm not sold on Glesson or Barkley. Geno looked miserable in the snow. Between the draft and FA, who are you guys hoping we'll have under center.

 

 

Also i can only hope that our next coach finds a way to lean on our running game considering out talent there and how it can help open up the passing game.

[dwight in philly]

You must play John Madden football to think Michael Vick is a good QB, there is absolutely no factual evidence on any game film to suggest otherwise. The mind numbing man-love for micheal vick is utterly incomprehensible.

be that as it may, i think the poster had some decent points, right now everything is conjecture.. no need to be overly critical..this IS a discussion board..

[NewEra]

 

 

Pretty much disagree with everything.

 

Overall, the Broncos offense was bad with Tebow. They couldn't move the ball through the air, and they didn't put up a lot of points.

People act like McCoy was able to get a lot out of a bad quarterback. He didn't. They were ranked 23rd in total offense, 31st in passing and 25th in points in 2011.

McCoy wasn't a miracle-maker. He relied on his strong running game, and the defense to keep games low scoring.

 

Switching the offense to fit Peyton Manning wasn't some huge accomplishment either.

Manning is basically his own offensive coordinator and has been running the same offense for 15+ years.

 

Alex Smith and Michael Vick are marginal upgrades - if not downgrades - from Fitz.

It's now clear that Vick's brief resurgance in 2010 was a fluke. He no longer has the athletic ability to makeup for his poor decision making and problems reading a defense.

If we cut Fitz for some reason, I wouldn't Smith as a veteran backup. But we need to be developing and evaluating a top prospect from Day One.

 

I'm also getting tired of people bashing the 2013 QB rookie class.

Despite what people are saying, this is not a bad group of prospects. It's about average. Last year (with Andrew Luck and RGIII) was exceptional because of those two players.

Throughout the year, the top two prospects have been Geno Smith and Matt Barkley. Compared to some of the last prospects:

> In 2012, both Smith and Barkley would likely have been chosen before Tannehill (who was a Top 10 pick).

> Smith is a better passer and more polished than Cam Newton was coming out of college. If it was 2011, he probably would have gone before Newton. I think Barkley would have gone before Locker, Ponder or Gabbert.

> Both probably would have been selected after Sam Bradford in 2010, but they would have certainly gone before Tebow.

 

Who cares where guys would have been drafted? It's useless information that's not even real information. Its speculative garbage. This crop of QBs is weaker than most years. Whether or not these guys step up their game in the nfl is another story. As of now, its weak based on what these guys did this year.

[Mr. WEO]

Pretty much disagree with everything.

 

Overall, the Broncos offense was bad with Tebow. They couldn't move the ball through the air, and they didn't put up a lot of points.

People act like McCoy was able to get a lot out of a bad quarterback. He didn't. They were ranked 23rd in total offense, 31st in passing and 25th in points in 2011.

McCoy wasn't a miracle-maker. He relied on his strong running game, and the defense to keep games low scoring.

 

Switching the offense to fit Peyton Manning wasn't some huge accomplishment either.

Manning is basically his own offensive coordinator and has been running the same offense for 15+ years.

 

Alex Smith and Michael Vick are marginal upgrades - if not downgrades - from Fitz.

It's now clear that Vick's brief resurgance in 2010 was a fluke. He no longer has the athletic ability to makeup for his poor decision making and problems reading a defense.

If we cut Fitz for some reason, I wouldn't Smith as a veteran backup. But we need to be developing and evaluating a top prospect from Day One.

 

I'm also getting tired of people bashing the 2013 QB rookie class.

Despite what people are saying, this is not a bad group of prospects. It's about average. Last year (with Andrew Luck and RGIII) was exceptional because of those two players.

Throughout the year, the top two prospects have been Geno Smith and Matt Barkley. Compared to some of the last prospects:

> In 2012, both Smith and Barkley would likely have been chosen before Tannehill (who was a Top 10 pick).

> Smith is a better passer and more polished than Cam Newton was coming out of college. If it was 2011, he probably would have gone before Newton. I think Barkley would have gone before Locker, Ponder or Gabbert.

> Both probably would have been selected after Sam Bradford in 2010, but they would have certainly gone before Tebow.

 

I'd say he got the most out of Tebow--unless you think Tebow had a lot more in him...

 

And the Denver D gave up 40 or more points 4 times after the bye. They kept 3 teams in the AFCE in the teens druing that period. Big deal.

 

No Vick. He's just no good anymore. Smith doesn't turn the ball over. An improvement over Fitz.

[NewEra]

Ok, Valid point, but looking towards a QB for us next season, who would you guys pick. I'm not sold on Glesson or Barkley. Geno looked miserable in the snow. Between the draft and FA, who are you guys hoping we'll have under center.

 

 

Also i can only hope that our next coach finds a way to lean on our running game considering out talent there and how it can help open up the passing game.

 

It's glennon. Big arm. No mobility. Some questionable decisions. Looks to be the best pocket passer. I liken him to flacco.

 

 

I could careless how geno plays in the snow. We rarely play in the snow. It's overrated. That being said, I'm not sold on geno. He has moments where he really doesn't look like an nfl QB. Sometimes he looks amazing.

 

 

I think I actually like Zac Dysert more than any qb in this class.

 

I'd be ok with Alex for a couple years while we groom a pick in this years and possibly next years draft. If I thought Vick would play 13+ games for us next year, I'd be ok with signing him. I don't. Even behind our line, I think he's an injury waiting to happen

[KollegeStudnet]

OP, I like your style. McCoy is a great candidate. Alot of people are turned off of him, based on the fact he really is not well known. He has a great track and would make a decent HC

[RK_BillsFan]

Wanted to post an interesting number for you guys.

 

Through the entire season Fitz was sacked 30 times. In 8 games a piece for Vick and Smith ( exclude the games they were knocked out of) they were sacked, 28 and 24 times respectively. I'm nto asking for them to be the long time answer, but I am looking for them to be someone that is serviceable that we can give a 2-3 yr contract to for less money than what we are planning to give Fitz. I am not completely up to date on his contract, but I am hoping we do not have the same situation the Jets have with Sanchez where it doesn't matter if we drop him or not, he is going to get that close to 10million.

 

If anyone is wondering, here is also a quick break down:

 

Player - Comp % / yds per game / sacks / int / fum - fum lost

 

Vick - 60.1% / 261 yds / 28 sacks / 10 int / 11 fum - 5 lost

 

A. Smith - 72.1% / 207 yds / 24 sacks / 5 int / 4 fum - 1 lost

 

Fitz - 59.9% / 212.5 yds / 30 sacks / 16 int / 8 fum 6 lost

 

Something else to note, A. Smiths number may also look much better due to SF being up more often than not in those games. At the 8 Game mark, SF was 6-2 while Philly and Bills were 3-5. I can go back and check, but I feel like the majority of our first 5 loses were all blow outs with a lot of garbage time stats although that still couldn't help Fitz.

 

 

Basically, I think Alex Smith, to a lesser extent Vick ( it's a shame he doesn't want to be a back up) would be able to hold down the fort while we bring up a younger talent and not throw them to the wolves. Lets be honest here. Indy was a playoff team 2 yrs ago if they had anything the resembled a QB. The redskins had a decent D and were a scrappy team that just needed something better under center( finding Morris was just an unforeseen bonus). As for the Seahawks, They are a good team and they knew they only needed a QB to be a serious contender, hence why they went out and got Flynn and Wilson even with T Jax and let it be an open competition. I don't think we are a QB away from the Playoffs. However i do think it would help us out tremendously.

 

This is not to say we are at the same level as say, the Fins and the Browns were last year when they drafted. Both teams saw improvements but I would still say they are about 1-2 yrs from the playoffs. I would place us slightly above the position they were in at the time of the 2012 draft. Do we need our future QB. You better believe it. I just don't see a QB this yr that pops out as, worth a top 10 pick. I would much rather wait, for something and fix our glaring need at LB, and WR because a QB throwing to our receiving corps is going to have a hard time. Although that's not entirely fair and might be improved with FA ( G. Jennings would be a nice addition but we still need a burner or for TJ to develop a lot faster)

Edited January 3, 2013 by RK_BillsFan

[Dr. Trooth]

Your view of McCoy is as an OC. His gimickry with Tebow was impressive. But, he took the NFL by surprise and was fortunate to have a very good D. As far as this year and what he's done with Manning, I'm underwhelmed. Manning would Make Herm Edwards look good as an OC. So how does McCoy's OC skill translate to HC? Is he going to come in and be the defacto OC? That's exactly what Brandon doesn't want. The last 5 Bills HCs have been OCs or DCs that could only function in their area of discipline. They were horrible as HCs. As far as Vick & Smith... Bills could in no way could the Bills afford both and one would not come if the other were here. Also, Vick is not a playoff QB and Smith got Beaten out by a Second yr. kid. Smith and Fitz may have different skill sets, but their bottom line ends up about the same... Smith just had a better supporting cast.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

Mike McCoy is only able to win with an immortal at QB (Jesus or Peyton Manning).

[xsoldier54]

Hello everyone. This is my first Topic Post, second post ever. Been reading on the site for about a year now. I apologize if this is a repeat thread. I know I've seen stuff about each of these people individually, but not together.

 

I am hoping we land Mike McCoy as our next HC. What he was able to do with Tebow and Manning changing the offence from 1 yr to the next to best suit the QB is nothing short of miraculous. I would love for him to be the Bills next HC because he could easily build an Offence to work with whatever our QB situation is next yr. With that said I would like to move onto the other 2 names.

 

Vick and Alex Smith. Both can be viewed as non-elite but at least above average QBs in the league A. Smith won't wow anyone with his numbers, but last year and this year prior to his injury, he was efficient. I feel like he would be an excellent pick up in the off season as a slight upgrade to Fitz while we draft a QB at some point.

 

As for Vick. I have read a ton of posts here that say he is a turn over machine and yes he does seem to be 1 concussion away from thinking he's back in grade school. But from what I saw all season, while he was playing the majority of those hits came from being sacked due to extremely poor O-line play not from his scrambling. The Bills o-line, while not the best ( their stats are somewhat the product of the scheme Gaily was using), can easily be considered better than Philly's line. I think, given just an extra 2 seconds to make throws and not be scared for his life, Vick would easily be a serviceable QB for us while we groom a successor that we pick up in the Draft.

 

McCoy took Tebow to and won a playoff game, you have to imagine he could do better with either Smith or Vick. I also, and i'm sure i might be blasted for this, don't think we should get a QB in the first round. The quality is simply not there. If Russell Wilson was in this years draft, i have no doubt he would be a first rounder, with a stupid note about his size next to his name being his questionable downsize. I would be all for a QB in the second or third, with some trading around, perhaps, trading back in the third, forth and fifth to get a really late second? The talent level at other positions are simply way to good. If we could get away with a LB in the first and then a WR/LB/(D anything) in the second and a QB in the third, I could not be happier.

 

Little bored at work today, so I hope we can have a good discussion about this and any other point someone might bring up.

Wouldn't mind McCoy as HC, but I don't believe either one of these guys is the answer at QB. I just looked at possible FA QB's and it looks like maybe the best available may be Jason Campbell. We need to draft a QB and maybe let him start from day one. It seems to have worked for lots of other teams in the past couple of months. I still like Tyler Wilson out of Arkansas and I believe he could start from day one, possibly with Campbell in reserve.

[RK_BillsFan]

I would love for us to draft Tyler Wilson. I just would like to get him with something other than the 8th pick of the first round.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

McCoy fits much better as an OC, agreed.

 

Your take on Vick is interesting, but i'd hate to see the Bills go after him.

 

A.Smith could fit for a few years while we get a project QB later in the draft or next years draft.

 

I really can't say i'm thrilled by the QB's in this years draft. If i'm GM, i'm only drafting a QB if he falls greater than expected. Improve on Defense should be our main concern along with getting a more stable offense (yes, I know a stable offense involves a good QB!)

[bigK14094]

No to Vick, a lowl character guy. I hear all the preaching about he paid his debt to society, and deserves a chance. Not from me. My four season tickets will be available if they do this. Won't pay to see a that guy play. Besides, I saw him in the Ralph with Atlanta, and was not impressed. We need to do better.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

No to Vick, a lowl character guy. I hear all the preaching about he paid his debt to society, and deserves a chance. Not from me. My four season tickets will be available if they do this. Won't pay to see a that guy play. Besides, I saw him in the Ralph with Atlanta, and was not impressed. We need to do better.

 

When you say available...