Playoff QBs

[Wayne Cubed]

I've asked before and have yet to receive an answer.

 

What options do we have *now*?

 

I don't see anyone available that'd do the job better than Fitz.

 

Also, we're going to finish well enough so that we miss out on an elite QB, or we'll draft the wrong guy. So it's really all moot.

 

This is where I'm at.

 

Fitz is the starter for the rest of the season, so arguing about who's better yada yada is a moot point. It's not going to change, there aren't any other options. If the Bills somehow figure out how to play defense, which they have the talent to, they'll finish the season off putting them out of the top QB's in the draft.

 

Although, I don't believe this crop of QB's coming out are can't miss Qb's, so I think there will be lots of value later in the 1st and early 2nd rounds.

[Dorkington]

Example:

 

We've lost the last three games. Fitz has completed 70% of his passes, threw for 800 yards, had 5 TDs and 2 INTs, and a QB rating of 97.25.

 

Two of the games we scored 30+ points, and it still wasn't enough.

 

It's clear to me that number one is getting our defense to be relevant. After that QB is next, sure. But right now, I can't say that Fitz is the one losing us the games, especially since we have no better options.

 

Edit: The average NFL team gives up 21.6 points a game, we score, on average 23.4 points a game... Our actual points per game given up is 31.7, last in the league.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dorkington

[section122]

 

> The defense is a major facotr in all of the games you listed.

 

I agree that the defense is a joke. But it's a mistake to wait until all your other holes are filled before drafting a franchise QB. The earlier in the draft you pick, the more likely you are to be able to get the guy you really want. The Bills should take the franchise QB now, and fix the defense later. Once both areas of the team have been fixed, they'll become a serious threat to win the Super Bowl.

 

I'm with you on this one. I was hoping against hope that Luck came out when Cam did. I felt like we would end up with one of the 2 and be set up for the future. I'm not against drafting a qb in the 1st this year. I do worry a bit about this class as it seems every player has some warts on them.

 

My main point is Flacco and Schaub have been put in much better situations than Fitz. When I look at that list of playoff teams I see D being the main contributing factor. Of course having an elite qb helps (see my first post in this thread) but think that our D is the #1 thing holding the Bills back.

 

As for the offensive players you've listed. I would say our rbs are on par with the Texans and Ravens (Rice and Foster are spectacular), the receiving corps for both teams are better (Stevie or Andre? Stevie and Nelson or Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin?), Te's I don't know what to think as Pitta has had flashes, Daniels is excellent when healthy, and Chandler has had flashes (as well as disappearing acts) so I would say it is a wash. The o-line for the Bills is excellent but the Ravens and Texans are good as well. The difference between all of these teams? The D!

 

That's what I meant when I said had nothing to work with (prob a poor choice of words on my part). Average points allowed in the 2012 season Texans 15.9, Ravens 21.8, and Bills dead last at 31.7. Right of the bat Fitz is being asked to score 16 more points than Schaub and 10 more points than Flacco. That is a ton of extra pressure on the qb. Which leads to forcing things and more turnovers.

[C.Biscuit97]

I disagree completely. The only stats that matter are wins and losses. Schaub and Flacco WIN. And Fitz is and will always be a sub .500 QB. If you put Fitz on the Texans or Ravens, I think he costs them 1-3 games.

 

Ok, this is completely insane. The Cards scored 18 points and won in NE. The Bills scored 31 and lost. So by your logic, Kolb was a better QB than Fitz against NE???

 

Trust me, I'll replace Fitz with a better option in a second. But to kill a guy who lost when his team scored 31 points and 34 seems completely unfair. I really doubt Schaub or Flacco make that much of a difference on our team with how bad our defense is. And I bet both the Texans and Ravens would be playoffs teams with Fitz under center.

 

W-Ls for QBs is a crock. Football is the ultimate team game. There are few QBs that are so elite that can carry teams. Fitz is very limited but this season is on the defense much more than it is on him. Fitz, for the most part, has done what is asked of him.

 

Example:

 

We've lost the last three games. Fitz has completed 70% of his passes, threw for 800 yards, had 5 TDs and 2 INTs, and a QB rating of 97.25.

 

Two of the games we scored 30+ points, and it still wasn't enough.

 

It's clear to me that number one is getting our defense to be relevant. After that QB is next, sure. But right now, I can't say that Fitz is the one losing us the games, especially since we have no better options.

 

Edit: The average NFL team gives up 21.6 points a game, we score, on average 23.4 points a game... Our actual points per game given up is 31.7, last in the league.

 

Well said. There are very few people on this board who won't like a stud QB. But to blame Fitz for this season is straight up foolish. This has been our best offense in 10 years. I'll go on a crazy limb and say that if Fitz has the Texans' defense we might have a slightly better record. Crazy I know.

[section122]

And I bet both the Texans and Ravens would be playoffs teams with Fitz under center.

 

I don't know about that.... It took the mighty T.J. Yates to take the Texans to the playoffs last year

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't know about that.... It took the mighty T.J. Yates to take the Texans to the playoffs last year

 

Bills fan logic: I don't care that Fitz put up 31 points against NE. He lost us the game thus every QB is better than him.

[RyanC883]

I'll stick just to the AFC to keep things simple.

 

 

If the playoff started today, these would be the AFC's playoff quarterbacks:

Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning

 

 

Last year's playoff quarterbacks:

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Schaub, Tebow

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning, Cassel

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Palmer, Flacco, Manning, Rivers

 

 

 

Once in awhile, a team with an average quarterback can sneak into the playoffs. But the odds are very slim.

And they very rarely have continued success year after year.

 

Sanchez was there twice. He's worse than Fitz. A decent D could cure a lot of our problems. An actual NFL linebacker could as well. We need to draft 3 LB's next year, starting w/ Teo.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I'll stick just to the AFC to keep things simple.

 

 

If the playoff started today, these would be the AFC's playoff quarterbacks:

Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning

 

 

Last year's playoff quarterbacks:

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Schaub, Tebow

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning, Cassel

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Palmer, Flacco, Manning, Rivers

 

 

 

Once in awhile, a team with an average quarterback can sneak into the playoffs. But the odds are very slim.

And they very rarely have continued success year after year.

 

I see a lot of qb's benefiting from stout defenses as other have pointed out. The years the steelers d was down even Ben couldnt get over the hump.

 

Their last superbowl year they were 4-0 with Charlie batch or some other guy, Dickson ?? Throwing for 109 yards per game.

 

Texans qb last year was not Schaub it was TJ Yates !!!!!

 

On this list only Brady and Manning have led the team to success despite average Defense and thats why they are going to canton.

 

 

[T master]

Fitz is probably having a better season than Schaub or Flacco. Much better defenses on those teams.

 

And if our D was living up to IT'S JOB we would now be 6 & 3 & in the playoff picture it's as easy as that !!

 

Mario says the Bills need to make a stand , well if Mario was to bring his play up to the level of K. Williams the said Bills D might be able to help the rest of the team make that stand but until he gets off his ass & plays up to his contract we won't be making that stand !!

 

Plus after watching the replay of the Pats game it sure would help if the refs would make a couple of decent calls !! They blew at least 3 calls that were game changers for the Bills !!

[C.Biscuit97]

And if our D was living up to IT'S JOB we would now be 6 & 3 & in the playoff picture it's as easy as that !!

 

Mario says the Bills need to make a stand , well if Mario was to bring his play up to the level of K. Williams the said Bills D might be able to help the rest of the team make that stand but until he gets off his ass & plays up to his contract we won't be making that stand !!

 

Plus after watching the replay of the Pats game it sure would help if the refs would make a couple of decent calls !! They blew at least 3 calls that were game changers for the Bills !!

 

Exactly. What if we gave these people this scenario before the season: Fitz will outplay Brady, led us to more than 100+ yards than the Pats, and put up 31 points? How many people with us getting Mario Williams and all that hype would have taken that? But it's all Fitz' fault.

[JPS]

All I'm saying is the defense is the number one problem with this team. I'm also convinced that Fitz is not the 'long term' solution here but to single his play out as the major contributor to the Bills poor showing so far this season is unfair and incorrect. I don't care who the QB is as long as you're giving up an average of 37+ points per game in 6 losses you are not focusing on the biggest problem.

 

Even last weekend against the Pats when he threw the pick I said to myself, 'well there's still time on the clock and they have all 3 timeouts so even if the Bills scored here and took a 38-37 lead they'd probably let Brady move the ball down the field and into scoring position for a FG kick to win the game as time expired'. This group and this coordinator cannot dial up a stop when it matters.

 

If both the defense and the QB are substandard, what difference does it make to determine which one is worse????? Both tires are bald, my friend.

 

Exactly. What if we gave these people this scenario before the season: Fitz will outplay Brady, led us to more than 100+ yards than the Pats, and put up 31 points? How many people with us getting Mario Williams and all that hype would have taken that? But it's all Fitz' fault.

You forgot to add the 1st quarter fumble and 7 point gift and the final drive interception. It's an "L". And this QB is way more heavy on "L"s than "W"s. That's the only stat I care about.

[Dorkington]

If both the defense and the QB are substandard, what difference does it make to determine which one is worse????? Both tires are bald, my friend.

 

 

You forgot to add the 1st quarter fumble and 7 point gift and the final drive interception. It's an "L". And this QB is way more heavy on "L"s than "W"s. That's the only stat I care about.

 

In this case though, one tire is in significantly worse shape than the other, so you want to replace the really bad one first, and the mediocre one second. If you can do both, awesome, if not, you gotta make a choice. Our defense is dead last, our QB is middle of the pack. It's pretty straight forward and logical, imo.

[reddogblitz]

Example:

 

We've lost the last three games. Fitz has completed 70% of his passes, threw for 800 yards, had 5 TDs and 2 INTs, and a QB rating of 97.25.

 

Two of the games we scored 30+ points, and it still wasn't enough.

 

It's clear to me that number one is getting our defense to be relevant. After that QB is next, sure. But right now, I can't say that Fitz is the one losing us the games, especially since we have no better options.

 

Edit: The average NFL team gives up 21.6 points a game, we score, on average 23.4 points a game... Our actual points per game given up is 31.7, last in the league.

Come on Dorkington, don't try to confuse us with facts.

[Best Player Available]

In this case though, one tire is in significantly worse shape than the other, so you want to replace the really bad one first, and the mediocre one second. If you can do both, awesome, if not, you gotta make a choice. Our defense is dead last, our QB is middle of the pack. It's pretty straight forward and logical, imo.

So, since Fitz was a career backup. And, now is a starter, and is being compared to a bald tire.

Is it safe too assume he is a recap? Just wondering.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Best Player Available

[reddogblitz]

Edit: The average NFL team gives up 21.6 points a game, we score, on average 23.4 points a game... Our actual points per game given up is 31.7, last in the league.

Only 2 teams in the NFL average more than 30 points (Denver and New England) per game scored and only more than 31.7 (New England).

[Rico]

I'll stick just to the AFC to keep things simple.

 

 

If the playoff started today, these would be the AFC's playoff quarterbacks:

Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning

 

 

Last year's playoff quarterbacks:

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Schaub, Tebow

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning, Cassel

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Palmer, Flacco, Manning, Rivers

 

 

 

Once in awhile, a team with an average quarterback can sneak into the playoffs. But the odds are very slim.

And they very rarely have continued success year after year.

Joe Sucko and Matt Scrub define average when it comes to QBs. They may make the playoffs thanks to the overall strength of their teams/weakness of other teams, but it is highly unlikely they will ever get a ring, they are just not that good. Edited November 15, 2012 by Rico

[1B4IDie]

Schaub has 23 300+ yard passing games since becoming a starter (64 starts). His "breakout years" of 08-10 where he threw for a combined 12183 yards? Well 4360 (over 1/3) of them went to Andre Johnson who is one of the best wrs in the game. So lets see he has the best rb in the game (which I don't think I need to tell you but it does make passing much easier), one of the best receiver's in the game, and a top 2 defense. So when teams play the Texans they need 7-8 in the box and 2 to cover Johnson leaving 1-2 players to cover other passing options.

He is asked to hand the ball off and not turn it over. This is why I consider him a caretaker. His role is to not mess up the teams chances to win. Very different than what is asked of Fitz (not that this is a Fitz vs. Schaub debate).

 

By your definition of caretaker QB.

Joe Montana is caretaker QB because he had Roger Craig and Jerry Rice

Jim Kelly is a caretaker QB because he had Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed

 

and

Matt Schuab is a caretaker QB because he has Arian Foster and Andre Johnson

 

Matt Schuab is not a caretaker QB. Watch him play. He is asked to throw the ball to win the game early and often.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[PromoTheRobot]

I'll stick just to the AFC to keep things simple.

 

 

If the playoff started today, these would be the AFC's playoff quarterbacks:

Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning

 

 

Last year's playoff quarterbacks:

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Schaub, Tebow

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning, Cassel

 

The year before:

Brady, Sanchez, Palmer, Flacco, Manning, Rivers

 

 

 

Once in awhile, a team with an average quarterback can sneak into the playoffs. But the odds are very slim.

And they very rarely have continued success year after year.

My god, man. You did it! You cracked the code!

 

So do great QBs make the playoffs, or are QBs who make the playoffs great?

 

PTR

Edited November 18, 2012 by PromoTheRobot

[Bronc24]

 

Schaub has 23 300+ yard passing games since becoming a starter (64 starts). His "breakout years" of 08-10 where he threw for a combined 12183 yards? Well 4360 (over 1/3) of them went to Andre Johnson who is one of the best wrs in the game. So lets see he has the best rb in the game (which I don't think I need to tell you but it does make passing much easier), one of the best receiver's in the game, and a top 2 defense. So when teams play the Texans they need 7-8 in the box and 2 to cover Johnson leaving 1-2 players to cover other passing options.

He is asked to hand the ball off and not turn it over. This is why I consider him a caretaker. His role is to not mess up the teams chances to win. Very different than what is asked of Fitz (not that this is a Fitz vs. Schaub debate).

 

If you think Fitz is as good as Schaub, you need to change your name to section 8.

[Omar Little]

Schaub is so average that he threw for 527 yards and five touchdowns today. Idiots.