Baseball playoffs

[KD in CA]

Braves being robbed by one of the worst calls I've ever seen, in what appears to be Chipper's final game.

 

And naturally a classy response from Atlanta fans.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Not as sexy since the word "replacement" isn't involved, but that's one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

 

I've been watching baseball for 17 years. Haven't seen an infield fly called within even 20 feet of that proximity.

[section122]

Wow I came here to start a playoffs thread just for this reason. My sister is a huge braves fan and all I could text her was "now you know what it's like to be a bills fan". Indefensibly bad call.

Edit: kd that was a perfectly legit response by those fans IMO.

Edited October 6, 2012 by section122

[Rob's House]

!@#$ baseball. This single game "playoff" is retarded. It was bad enough having best of 5 playoffs. One game in baseball? Might as well flip a coin. Bud Selig is ruining the game.

[ajzepp]

!@#$ baseball. This single game "playoff" is retarded. It was bad enough having best of 5 playoffs. One game in baseball? Might as well flip a coin. Bud Selig is ruining the game.

 

Im not only saying this because I'm a Braves fan, but I totally agree about this one game crap. There is a reason why playoffs in baseball are series'....I'm not enough of a baseball fan to be a "traditionalist", but it's hard for me to believe that anyone who falls under that heading could have anything but disdain for this format.

 

As for that call today, it was one of the worst I've ever seen. 2nd and 3rd with two outs is TOTALLY different than bases loaded with one out. We did plenty to ruin our chances today with all these idiotic infield "throws", but this call should have never been made.

 

Lastly, this is the most passion I've seen from Atlanta fans, so it's ironic that the passion would be in the form of classless behavior. Atlanta fans are fugtards.

[Rob's House]

Other than throwing stuff on the field, what did the fans do that was so offensive? I didn't see it, but I imagine after following a 162 game season to see your team eliminated in a one game sham of a playoff, on a call that makes the Golden Tate catch look reasonable by comparison, I don't blame the fans for being pissed.

[ajzepp]

Some of them were throwing glass bottles directly at the umpire/players from what they said on the broadcast. I just don't like Atlanta fans in general.

[boyst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XlxfuGCsbM

 

It'll get pulled before too long, but here it is...MLB will have it down by midnight.

[Maury Ballstein]

Can't believe he orioles are pulling off the W. Baseball talk time where's my sf giants fans at ? Cueto vs Cain Reds vs giants gonnal be tough

[bbb]

!@#$ baseball. This single game "playoff" is retarded. It was bad enough having best of 5 playoffs. One game in baseball? Might as well flip a coin. Bud Selig is ruining the game.

 

I totally disagree. You don't want to be in this one game wild card - win your division.........That is why I was dialed into every Yankee game the last 6 weeks. Which is when I usually tune out because they have at least the wild card sewn up, and there was never much difference between the wild card and the division.

 

Now, it gives more teams a chance to get in, and it makes the division championship mean so much more.

 

What is there to complain about?

[ajzepp]

bbb, what if one team happens to have one of the league's top aces, and even though they'd struggle in a series - even a best of three series - for that one game their entire team can ride into the playoffs on the back of one guy? I think that's potentially my biggest issues with it, even though that wasn't the situation today. I just think that baseball should always be a series format, personally....even just a best of 3.

[Rico]

I'm OK with the extra WC game. I did think it was kinda weird seeing the O's break out the champagne after winning it tonight, but whatever.

[ajzepp]

I'm OK with the extra WC game. I did think it was kinda weird seeing the O's break out the champagne after winning it tonight, but whatever.

 

It did look a bit weird, I agree...basically all they accomplished was winning game 1 of a best of 8.

[SHOUTBOX MONSTER!]

It did look a bit weird, I agree...basically all they accomplished was winning game 1 of a best of 8.

 

Every other club had a chance to celebrate making the playoffs. The O's didn't. They were on a plane heading to Florida when they found out. So I'm all for letting them crack a bit of bubbly for the first time in 15 years.

[PaattMaann]

I dont HATE the one game format, but I think a best of three would make the most sense (and think this is where they will be headed), it adds an extra four days to the playoffs (start a day or two earlier in april or tweak the schedule and problem solved) and will eliminate any nonsense

 

with that said, Im gonna have to disagree about the bad call...it was a LATE call, but I think the ump called the rule as it should have been called, the shortstop was set up under the ball (he wasent, but thats certainly what it looked like to the ump) so thats IFR....flip side, say the ump didnt call it and the runners got doubled up, their would be outcries on the opposite side of the call....the bottom line is the braves had ample opportunity to win that game outright (chipper with the costly error, leaving RISP on more than two occasions late in the game)...they just didnt get it done

[Ramius]

At first i thought the call was horrific, but i just watched the MLB Network and Harold Reynolds had an excellent breakdown of the call. He showed some film from earlier this year where the infield fly was called in basically the same spot. He said the umps look for when the ball is at its highest point, then check to see if the infielder is "under control" before calling the infield fly. Both of these cases were true in last nights game. Now the depth of the call was an issue, but Reynolds breakdown really changed my mind.

 

As for the wildcard, i don't mind it. Baseball has a long storied history of a single game playoff to break a tie, so why not for a wildcard spot? To the traditionalists, this actually makes the winning your division more important, since you avoid the playoff. Furthermore, (and i think this is important), this prevents a wildcard from setting their rotation for the ALDS. lots of times the WC team with strong pitching had an advantage in a short series. With the play-in, you've gotta be all hands on deck, which benefits the teams that have already won their division.

 

I do however, hate the new format, where the lower seed gets the first 2 at home before the final 3 at the higher seed's park. This gives too much of an early advantage to the lower seed.

[stevestojan]

You really think adding more games will make people happy and avoid controversy?

 

Signed,

 

Steve Bartman & Bill Buckner, both of who made their blunders in game 6 and no one remembers game 7.

Edited October 6, 2012 by stevestojan

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

At first i thought the call was horrific, but i just watched the MLB Network and Harold Reynolds had an excellent breakdown of the call. He showed some film from earlier this year where the infield fly was called in basically the same spot. He said the umps look for when the ball is at its highest point, then check to see if the infielder is "under control" before calling the infield fly. Both of these cases were true in last nights game. Now the depth of the call was an issue, but Reynolds breakdown really changed my mind.

 

.

I think it's BS strictly because of the depth. From that point on the field, the shortstop doesn't have nearly enough time to intentionally drop the ball, throw to third, and then the 3B throw to 2B to complete the double play. That's the spirit of the rule - to prevent cheap double plays.

 

The ball landed 225 feet from home plate. That's the outfield.

[Chef Jim]

I have not seen the play yet but that's one of the reasons why I think a one game playoff is dumb.

[millbank]

Got to be tough on a team like Rangers to end their run with a one and out.... would like to see at least a best two of three, even five, this would allow front runners the privilege of rest before playoffs , getting rotations in order ect, this the reward for doing well.

[Chef Jim]

Got to be tough on a team like Rangers to end their run with a one and out.... would like to see at least a best two of three, even five, this would allow front runners the privilege of rest before playoffs , getting rotations in order ect, this the reward for doing well.

 

Then we'd be well into November with baseball. Stick with the most recent format of three divisional winners and one wild card.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Got to be tough on a team like Rangers to end their run with a one and out.... would like to see at least a best two of three, even five, this would allow front runners the privilege of rest before playoffs , getting rotations in order ect, this the reward for doing well.

 

With apologies to CGF, I feel much more sorry for the Braves than the Rangers. They shouldn't have blown their 13 game lead over Oakland if they didn't want an early exit.

[Ramius]

With apologies to CGF, I feel much more sorry for the Braves than the Rangers. They shouldn't have blown their 13 game lead over Oakland if they didn't want an early exit.

 

Yup, the Rangers deserve no sympathies. They blew a 5 game lead with 9 to go, and a 4 game lead with 6 to go. My A's won 5/7 from Texas over the final 10 games of the season. The Rangers finished the season 2-8 in their final 10, and 1-6 in their final 7. They simply choked.

 

As for the distance on the infield fly, that's a judgement call. I definitely see why many people have an issue with it, at the same time, after watching the breakdown, you can see why the call was made. The funny thing is, if there was no miscommunication between Holliday and the SS, no one is arguing this. The SS could have easily made the catch. (the reason why the infield fly was called)

[Arkady Renko]

The interesting thing is that the Rangers would be playing a tie-breaking game against the Orioles to decide who would be the wild card anyway.

 

As a long suffering Orioles fan, I am pretty excited right now. I would have thought the Bills would turn things around before the Orioles would...

[bills44]

I hate the Braves and the Cardinals, so I had little interest in the game.

 

Blown call, no doubt, but it pales in comparison to Don Denkinger's blown call in the '85 WS. Not even in the same league, really.

[bbb]

bbb, what if one team happens to have one of the league's top aces, and even though they'd struggle in a series - even a best of three series - for that one game their entire team can ride into the playoffs on the back of one guy? I think that's potentially my biggest issues with it, even though that wasn't the situation today. I just think that baseball should always be a series format, personally....even just a best of 3.

 

If you don't want to deal with this, win your division! It made pennant races very exciting this year...........One of the most memorable games ever was the one game tiebreaker Bucky Dent game in 1978. I don't remember people complaining that that should be a series.

 

A series would really screw up the division winners, sitting around and make it go into November. If it weren't for that, I'd be for the three gamer, too.

 

But, baseball SOOOO got it right on this one.

 

I'm OK with the extra WC game. I did think it was kinda weird seeing the O's break out the champagne after winning it tonight, but whatever.

 

Did they really? I was so hoping that wasn't going to happen. Enough with the champagne, baseball..........You don't see an NFL team doing that after winning a playoff game.

 

It must be marketing ploy. I know I get emails from mlb right after a team clinches about buying hats, etc. It must be that people see the celebration, the hats, etc. and then feel like they need some swag.

 

At first i thought the call was horrific, but i just watched the MLB Network and Harold Reynolds had an excellent breakdown of the call. He showed some film from earlier this year where the infield fly was called in basically the same spot. He said the umps look for when the ball is at its highest point, then check to see if the infielder is "under control" before calling the infield fly. Both of these cases were true in last nights game. Now the depth of the call was an issue, but Reynolds breakdown really changed my mind.

 

As for the wildcard, i don't mind it. Baseball has a long storied history of a single game playoff to break a tie, so why not for a wildcard spot? To the traditionalists, this actually makes the winning your division more important, since you avoid the playoff. Furthermore, (and i think this is important), this prevents a wildcard from setting their rotation for the ALDS. lots of times the WC team with strong pitching had an advantage in a short series. With the play-in, you've gotta be all hands on deck, which benefits the teams that have already won their division.

 

I do however, hate the new format, where the lower seed gets the first 2 at home before the final 3 at the higher seed's park. This gives too much of an early advantage to the lower seed.

 

I believe that changes next year. The union didn't agree until late in spring training, and they had to fit it in.

 

.

I think it's BS strictly because of the depth. From that point on the field, the shortstop doesn't have nearly enough time to intentionally drop the ball, throw to third, and then the 3B throw to 2B to complete the double play. That's the spirit of the rule - to prevent cheap double plays.

 

The ball landed 225 feet from home plate. That's the outfield.

 

 

This is exactly my problem. Could they even have pulled off a double play by purposely dropping it from that depth?

[Mike In Illinois]

I'm a Cardinals fan but I won't prod the bear on the Infield Fly argument. I do think the trend of adding playoff games calls for an adjustment in the season. I would like to see each team scheduled to play a double-header once each month during the season. That would, in theory, save 6 days or so on the season and allow the regular season to wrap up in late September. Or, maybe they shorten the season up but that would affect these teams that make a late run at the Division or Wild Card.

[Rob's House]

 

 

I totally disagree. You don't want to be in this one game wild card - win your division.........That is why I was dialed into every Yankee game the last 6 weeks. Which is when I usually tune out because they have at least the wild card sewn up, and there was never much difference between the wild card and the division.

 

Now, it gives more teams a chance to get in, and it makes the division championship mean so much more.

 

What is there to complain about?

That still doesn't do it for me. That same argument could justify the coin toss. To me it cheapens the game. It would be like NFL replacing the WC games w/ an overtime elimination.

 

I'm not just bitter b/c the Braves lost either; I thought it was a crummy rule when I first heard about it. I get the part about adding value to winning the division; but IMO they should either do the WC right or not at all.

 

 

 

Then we'd be well into November with baseball. Stick with the most recent format of three divisional winners and one wild card.

I think this makes the most sense. The only reason for a 1 game playoff would be if 2 teams tied for the WC.

 

This format change is just another dumbass move like making the all-star game count.

[bbb]

I like making the ASG count, but I know I'm in the minority on that................I am in the majority on this wild card thing. It made for a great September. So, if you're one of these wild card teams, you'd rather just pack it up after game 162 or would you like a shot at the postseason?

[gomper]

bbb-true that!....go Giants go O's....must be an amazing weekend to be in the Bay Area

[ajzepp]

I dont HATE the one game format, but I think a best of three would make the most sense (and think this is where they will be headed), it adds an extra four days to the playoffs (start a day or two earlier in april or tweak the schedule and problem solved) and will eliminate any nonsense

 

with that said, Im gonna have to disagree about the bad call...it was a LATE call, but I think the ump called the rule as it should have been called, the shortstop was set up under the ball (he wasent, but thats certainly what it looked like to the ump) so thats IFR....flip side, say the ump didnt call it and the runners got doubled up, their would be outcries on the opposite side of the call....the bottom line is the braves had ample opportunity to win that game outright (chipper with the costly error, leaving RISP on more than two occasions late in the game)...they just didnt get it done

 

Yeah, but part of the rule is that the call needs to be timely. So even jsut the fact that it was late gives the Braves reason to feel slighted. It's a moot issue now, and as we all agree the Braves shot themselves in the foot a few times, but having this go down on top of everything else really sucked.

 

 

If you don't want to deal with this, win your division! It made pennant races very exciting this year...........One of the most memorable games ever was the one game tiebreaker Bucky Dent game in 1978. I don't remember people complaining that that should be a series.

 

 

 

I understand that argument, but I don't like it lol. Underdogs are what sports is all about, and whether it's the NFL or MLB, I wouldn't want to see the wild cards taken out of the equation. Personally, like Chef Jim said, I don't see what was wrong with the way they had it....three division winners plus the wc team. I thought that was great.

[bbb]

Because this makes the regular season more meaningful. No more Sox and Yankees have the wild card and division wrapped up, so they don't care who actually wins what.

 

It's also why I love college football. I love when the regular season really counts for a lot.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Because this makes the regular season more meaningful. No more Sox and Yankees have the wild card and division wrapped up, so they don't care who actually wins what.

 

It's also why I love college football. I love when the regular season really counts for a lot.

 

I agree about the regular season being more meaningful, but I think the fix is to eliminate wild cards, not add more. 2 divisions per league, 1 winner from each division.

[KD in CA]

This is exactly my problem. Could they even have pulled off a double play by purposely dropping it from that depth?

 

They might not have been able to pull off a single play. Not one chance in a thousand of a DP in that situation. It's a great example of umps getting so wrapped up in the minutiae of the rule book that they ignore common sense and the basic rationale for the rule's existence.

 

As for the one game playoff, I've 'evolved my position' on that one. Wild Cards should be forced to climb that extra hurdle because they failed to win their division and that should mean something. I don't give a crap if the Cards or Braves had a better record; neither could win a five team division so neither has a claim to being more deserving of a playoff spot. And I don't don't think it should be longer than one game because that hurts the division winners who sit and get rusty.

[PromoTheRobot]

They're still playing baseball?

 

Honestly, I'm so out of it I don't even know who is in the playoffs or when the games are. Are they not doing as much TV coverage this year? All I see is football.

 

PTR

Edited October 7, 2012 by PromoTheRobot

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

They're still playing baseball?

 

Honestly, I'm so out of it I don't even know who is in the playoffs or when the games are. Are they not doing as much TV coverage this year? All I see is football.

 

PTR

 

Nothing but TBS thus far.

[kabnt2005]

 

I agree about the regular season being more meaningful, but I think the fix is to eliminate wild cards, not add more. 2 divisions per league, 1 winner from each division.

 

You would seriously want only 4 playoff teams out of the 30 in the entire league? That's absurd.

[KD in CA]

You would seriously want only 4 playoff teams out of the 30 in the entire league? That's absurd.

No, it's not absurd when you play 161 regular season games. That's how it worked for decades and it worked pretty damn well.

 

I agree with Sage but recognize we'll never go back to that, so if there has to be wild cards I think they should be put at a significant disadvantage since they don't deserve to be in the post-season anyway.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

You would seriously want only 4 playoff teams out of the 30 in the entire league? That's absurd.

 

Disagree. The season is long enough that there's no vagueness about who the best teams are.

 

What's absurd is the NHL and NBA system. I think the NFL does it right. 12 out of 32 teams is a good number for such a short season (ie. small sample size) and the best records are rewarded with something more than simply a nice matchup.

[bbb]

They might not have been able to pull off a single play. Not one chance in a thousand of a DP in that situation. It's a great example of umps getting so wrapped up in the minutiae of the rule book that they ignore common sense and the basic rationale for the rule's existence.

 

As for the one game playoff, I've 'evolved my position' on that one. Wild Cards should be forced to climb that extra hurdle because they failed to win their division and that should mean something. I don't give a crap if the Cards or Braves had a better record; neither could win a five team division so neither has a claim to being more deserving of a playoff spot. And I don't don't think it should be longer than one game because that hurts the division winners who sit and get rusty.

 

I agree with every word of this.