Captain Hindsight Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 That was a fumble...It came out when his arm was cocking back, not coming forward. This guy is simply not very good. The stats don't tell the whole story. Fantasy wise he looks pretty damn good right now, and it was another win. Fitz has bought himself a few more weeks, and can make a statement next week with a solid performance and a "W" Beacuse he fumbled a new ball in the rain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halijack Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 the ball can slip out of one's hand and be propelled forward by the arm, hand, fingers whatever, it's a fumble. The rules aren't based in physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 the ball can slip out of one's hand and be propelled forward by the arm, hand, fingers whatever, it's a fumble. The rules aren't based in physics. And in some cases logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 i just don't get how its a fumble when the ball is moving forward.... through the air.... its called a pass... as terrible as it was. LOL The rule should be changed. If you hit a guy from behind at the peak of his windup, the ball is going to go forward becuase he is moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 i just don't get how its a fumble when the ball is moving forward.... through the air.... its called a pass... as terrible as it was. LOL No. this^^^^^^^ I thought the network coverage was terrible, as I never saw a really good angle on it. BUT, if the ball is moving forward, there must have been some forward momentum imparted by the hand and the throwing motion of the arm to the ball BEFORE it left his hand. At the very least, I cannot understand how, in that case, there could possibly be irrefutable evidence that it was in fact fumbled before his throwing motion was applied, which would be NECESSARY by rule to overturn the call. We were fortunate that all it cost us was a shot at three points. If you hit a guy from behind at the peak of his windup, the ball is going to go forward becuase he is moving forward. Yeah, but nobody hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 i just don't get how its a fumble when the ball is moving forward.... through the air.... its called a pass... as terrible as it was. LOL The rule should be changed. I was stunned at the call.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 but if he didnt have control going back, how could he have "thrown" it forward? theres a certain element of control needed for a throw and it not just being a hand hitting a ball. id guess most consider it controlling a ball as you bring it back and change direction to move it forward - without controlling it through that rebound in the motion.... im not sure what wed call it in plain english but i dont think throw would be the first to come to mind. I didn't see him hit the ball forward. In order for him to have slapped a fumbled ball forward, the ball would have had to leave contact with his hand completely and then be struck. I saw no such thing on that play. I saw Fitz rooster the ball backward, and then saw the ball slip out of his hand as he was moving the ball forward, causing the the ball to travel several yards forward in the process. That exact play has been ruled an incomplete pass in every instance I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I remember thinking it should have been a fumble because the ball slipped out of his hand before his arm started moving forward. I'll have to look at the replay again to be sure, but I wasn't too upset with the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyBacker Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Beacuse he fumbled a new ball in the rain? The first part of the post was about the fumble, the second part just plainly said that Fitz isn't that good. The fumble really has nothing to do with Fitz not being that great, I honestly don't disagree with his assesment at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I didn't see him hit the ball forward. In order for him to have slapped a fumbled ball forward, the ball would have had to leave contact with his hand completely and then be struck. I saw no such thing on that play. I saw Fitz rooster the ball backward, and then saw the ball slip out of his hand as he was moving the ball forward, causing the the ball to travel several yards forward in the process. That exact play has been ruled an incomplete pass in every instance I can recall. they determined the bobble was before the forward motion. even if theres not the SLAP effect, if the ball is out of control before his hand is going forward it is a loss of possession that is simply being pushed forward by a hand, not a throw with poor accuracy because it slipped out at the wrong time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm just worried that fumble will give Fitz's detractors more fuel... "See??? He can't even fumble accurately!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 The only way the ball could have gone forward toward the line of scrimmage is if it were impacted by Fitz's forward throwing motion. If it were a fumble, it would have fallen sideways or behind him. It was a forward pass. This ^^. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 they determined the bobble was before the forward motion. even if theres not the SLAP effect, if the ball is out of control before his hand is going forward it is a loss of possession that is simply being pushed forward by a hand, not a throw with poor accuracy because it slipped out at the wrong time... If the ball is still in contact with his hand and hes still influencing the flight path, then I don't understand at what arbitrary moment you can deem him not under control of the ball or not in possession of something thats still in his hand. If he wasn't under control of the ball while cocking it backward, the ball would have traveled backwards, not forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I didn't see him hit the ball forward. In order for him to have slapped a fumbled ball forward, the ball would have had to leave contact with his hand completely and then be struck. I saw no such thing on that play. I saw Fitz rooster the ball backward, and then saw the ball slip out of his hand as he was moving the ball forward, causing the the ball to travel several yards forward in the process. That exact play has been ruled an incomplete pass in every instance I can recall. THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 No. this^^^^^^^ I thought the network coverage was terrible, as I never saw a really good angle on it. BUT, if the ball is moving forward, there must have been some forward momentum imparted by the hand and the throwing motion of the arm to the ball BEFORE it left his hand. At the very least, I cannot understand how, in that case, there could possibly be irrefutable evidence that it was in fact fumbled before his throwing motion was applied, which would be NECESSARY by rule to overturn the call. We were fortunate that all it cost us was a shot at three points. The league refers to it as the empty hand rule. Fitz lost the ball just as his arm was cocked all the way back but before it started coming forward. The momentum of his empty hand caused the ball to go forward. He never had control of the ball when his arm started moving forward. A play like this has been reviewable for a long time…think back to the Marsha Brady tuck rule. I thought the replay was conclusive that he lost the ball a split second before the arm came forward and that the refs actually did a good job on getting it correct. The ref even provided a little bit of an explanation as to what he saw on the reply, which is something we have not been getting from the scabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 The refs on the field got it right. Incomplete pass. Every pass has an empty hand at some point. It's called follow-through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 If the ball is still in contact with his hand and hes still influencing the flight path, then I don't understand at what arbitrary moment you can deem him not under control of the ball or not in possession of something thats still in his hand. If he wasn't under control of the ball while cocking it backward, the ball would have traveled backwards, not forwards. Touching a hand is not the same as controlled by a hand. At this point I'm off of the actual play and arguing physics and English. If say a defender popped the ball sideways in his windup before the hand went forward, then the sideways ball was pushed forward by his empty hand, would you call that a throw, or is it a fumble that was pushed forward by a flailing arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 We won right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Touching a hand is not the same as controlled by a hand. At this point I'm off of the actual play and arguing physics and English. If say a defender popped the ball sideways in his windup before the hand went forward, then the sideways ball was pushed forward by his empty hand, would you call that a throw, or is it a fumble that was pushed forward by a flailing arm? But we're not discussing semantics, we're discussing the rules of a game. If I called an incomplete pass a turducken should that supersede the rules as defined by the NFL? How does an empty hand push anything, save for a slapping motion after contact has been lost? Since we've already ruled out a slap in this instance, how was Fitz's hand empty, yet holding on to a football and still changing the trajectory of the ball with no outside influences? Edited September 24, 2012 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 its not a fumble they missed it Beuerlein had it right when he said "that's not a fumble" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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