San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 This assumes the Bills and Eagles have equal talent at all other positions? And the Eagles are considered to be stacked in talent most every year including last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Um....yes! Dream team!!!! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 And the Eagles are considered to be stacked in talent most every year including last year. And the skinny on them last year was that their defense was too small and couldnt hold 2nd half leads. And everyone was calling for the new DC Castillo's head. Then the D improved somewhat and after a 1-4 start the team finished 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 And the skinny on them last year was that their defense was too small and couldnt hold 2nd half leads. And everyone was calling for the new DC Castillo's head. Then the D improved somewhat and after a 1-4 start the team finished 8-8. Oh. Another team that had a schizophrenic first half/second half performance. So they're not really an 8-8 team? Here's a take on Vick and his contract from this morning's PFT: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/2012-is-a-make-or-break-year-for-mike-vick/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Most people suggest how we would be with rookie QB's we never had a shot at. Now that the Bills are on verge of being a good football team and we had a real shot at bringing Mike Vick in after he got out out of jail. Would you feel much better about this team if he was leading it right now? If you told me he would stay healthy and play all 16 games, then hell yes. In reality though, he has only played 16 games once, so unless we found a backup who was starter quality then not a chance. At this point in his career, though still an amazing athlete, he is more of a pocket passer then he once was, and that means more hits taken, which mean more injuries, which mean less games played for him.......so NO. Edited August 23, 2012 by BuffBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Dare I say this could be the 2012 Season's first STOTY nominee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) @SJBF, Really having a hard time following you here. On one hand you make it seem like all Vick or anyone had to do was show up and with all that talent theyd win. And when I point out all the issues with their D last year you post something unrelated about Vicks contract. Wtf? Earlier you state how Reid is one of the top offensive coaches every year, yet you have no faith in his backing of Vick? Double wtf? Edited August 23, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) @SJBF, Really having a hard time following you here. On one hand you make it seem like all Vick or anyone had to do was show up and with all that talent theyd win. And when I point out all the issues with their D last year you post something unrelated about Vicks contract. Wtf? Earlier you state how Reid is one of the top offensive coaches every year, yet you have no faith in his backing of Vick? Double wtf? I'll spell it out for you cause it seems you're looking for a meaning that's not there. My point on the Eagles season is that there are lots of posters here who refuse to let the Bills off the hook for their injury-riddled finish to last season… totally dismissing their 5-2 start. It's funny to me that one can explain a different team's season in two chapters but it's not valid to apply the same lens to the Bills season. The link I provided was a different point altogether… this is a Vick thread and I posted a link that was "fresh off the presses" for everyone's consumption. Edited August 23, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't think this team would realize any improvement having Vick at QB. He's got more big play potential, and can connect on the deep ball, but I doubt he can run the quick read offense that the Bills relied on last season. Vick seems to force everything to DeSean or failing that, Maclin. Theres no DeSean Jacksons on this squad where Vick can buy time and then heave the long ball. He holds the ball too long in my opinion, makes questionable decisions that cost the team and I think opposing D's have figured him out after his first comeback season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Easily the strongest arm in the league. But he's not a very good QB--even in Atlanta a million years ago he had only a couple of good seasons. He's the most fragile starter in the NFL and he will never be worth whatever it would take to trade for him. He has been the most crazy-hyped player in the last 10 years. Oh, I don't know about that. Brady, Rodgers, Flacco, Cutler and maybe a few of the *new* kids might give him a run for his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some people are just in love with the image of an athlete, often bearing no relation to what that athlete can actually do today. I agree and see what you're saying here. Kind of reminds me of lovefests for a fat scrub named Jasper. Yea, it makes total sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I agree and see what you're saying here. Kind of reminds me of lovefests for a fat scrub named Jasper. Yea, it makes total sense. Oh really now? Oh yeah. I can totally see how rooting for an underdog is the same as wanting to trade for some faded superstar because you think fame is equal to talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBiker Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'd be so happy I'd rape a puppy in celebration. Ewww ur sicker than Vick!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) I would not feel better about this team if Vick was the QB. You can't simply separate an athletes abilities to play the game from their character. At some point those things have to come together. Putting that aside however, I have issues with Vick's just the same. Let's start with his fragility. In 9 seasons, he's managed just 1 complete season. Even discounting his first year in Philadelphia (where Kolb was starting), he's only been on the field for 71% of possible games or about 11 games per season. Those wanting to use the "if healthy" argument don't have much history to be able to make that leap that he'll be healthy. Let's extend that to his accuracy. Fitzpatrick hasn't had incredible accuracy at 59.2% for his career. With the Bills, it's 59.4%. Certainly not great or anything to fawn over. Vick isn't any better at 56.0% for his career. He's been a little better with Philadelphia at 60.2%, but that's with far superior receiving options than the Bills have had over the same time period. I don't think anyone would disagree that you can't just take a QB from one team and put him on another and expect them to play the same. Unless that QB is Peyton Manning of course. People can tout his arm strength all they want, but if he isn't accurate enough to get it in the vacinity of the receivers, it won't matter. I appreciate Vick's abilities when it comes to scrambling. Let's not forget though that THAT's the reason he's been hurt so much. He's always looking to take off and that has gotten him in trouble on several occasions. Vick does not have the size and durability of a Culpepper or Newton. So for the instances where he extends a drive here or there with his legs, you are almost guaranteeing that you won't see him for 4-5 games a season. The trade off just isn't worth it. Back to the combination of ability and character, I don't have one doubt in my mind that he'd still be fighting dogs if he hadn't been caught. I don't owe him forgiveness though just because he's served his time. The moment the Bills signed Michael Vick would be the moment I turn in my fan card. Regardless, he's at the end of his career anyway and we don't have to worry about that happening. Our worst case scenario at this point is that Fitzpatrick doesn't progress this year and we're looking at Matt Barkley or Landry Jones in next years draft. While this thread is pure fantasy, that's a little more realistic. Edited August 23, 2012 by Luxy312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Oh, I don't know about that. Brady, Rodgers, Flacco, Cutler and maybe a few of the *new* kids might give him a run for his money. He makes all of those throws on the move, feet not planted, with a flick of the wrist. Not even close. Cutler maybe. Brady forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 "No, because of Super fresh pitbull take" Get over yourselves lol that shxt was like 6 years ago now... i bet with those takes you probably consider yourselves "godfearing" types... idk, if so, even THAT dude forgives him you act like you all know the bills personally to speak of their "high character"... yeah right... now, that said, no i wouldnt take him. God can forgive all he wants, doesn't mean I have to. Dude can rot in hell and in no way would I want him on the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Any chance Vick will ever be invited as guest referee for the Puppy Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 God can forgive all he wants, doesn't mean I have to. Dude can rot in hell and in no way would I want him on the Bills. And let's not forget that the man stopped fighting dogs because he got caught. If nobody ever knew and then 5 years later, he came out and said "Listen, I used to do this horrible thing and it's been weighing on my conscience" he'd have more than a few ounces of my sympathy. As it stands, we can only assume that Vick would have blithely continued fighting dogs until he was an old crippled man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) WHAT KINDA QUESTION? Once again anybody that would take Fitz over Mike needs a cat scan.. Glass QB or not he is on another level of talent than Fitz will ever be and thats a fact. Most people dont want him cuz he killed Snoopy whooped do same people kill spiders, eat fish and hunt but upset he suplexed Scooby Doo on his neck. SMH... He did his time but eh whatever.... *Side Note* This thread should have at least 30 pages by tonight anything with MV7 and the Bills people seem to get very emotional over... Edited August 23, 2012 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 My dog just howled then hid under the bed....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) couldn't resist, too funny. Edited August 23, 2012 by BuffBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Oh, I don't know about that. Brady, Rodgers, Flacco, Cutler and maybe a few of the *new* kids might give him a run for his money. Brady & Rogers aren't even in that conversation. I'd throw Newton & Stafford into the mix, though. WHAT KINDA QUESTION? Once again anybody that would take Fitz over Mike needs a cat scan.. Glass QB or not he is on another level of talent than Fitz will ever be and thats a fact. Most people dont want him cuz he killed Snoopy whooped do same people kill spiders, eat fish and hunt but upset he suplexed Scooby Doo on his neck. SMH... He did his time but eh whatever.... *Side Note* This thread should have at least 30 pages by tonight anything with MV7 and the Bills people seem to get very emotional over... +1 If you've ever killed a spider where do you get off demonizing someone for stealing a little kid's puppy & throwing it to vicious pitbulls to be ripped to pieces for his enjoyment. It's practically the same thing. The hypocrisy on this board is ridiculous. Besides, the tears of a child whose dog disappeared are yummy. Edited August 23, 2012 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I would not feel better about this team if Vick was the QB. You can't simply separate an athletes abilities to play the game from their character. At some point those things have to come together. Putting that aside however, I have issues with Vick's just the same. Let's start with his fragility. In 9 seasons, he's managed just 1 complete season. Even discounting his first year in Philadelphia (where Kolb was starting), he's only been on the field for 71% of possible games or about 11 games per season. Those wanting to use the "if healthy" argument don't have much history to be able to make that leap that he'll be healthy. Let's extend that to his accuracy. Fitzpatrick hasn't had incredible accuracy at 59.2% for his career. With the Bills, it's 59.4%. Certainly not great or anything to fawn over. Vick isn't any better at 56.0% for his career. He's been a little better with Philadelphia at 60.2%, but that's with far superior receiving options than the Bills have had over the same time period. I don't think anyone would disagree that you can't just take a QB from one team and put him on another and expect them to play the same. Unless that QB is Peyton Manning of course. People can tout his arm strength all they want, but if he isn't accurate enough to get it in the vacinity of the receivers, it won't matter. I appreciate Vick's abilities when it comes to scrambling. Let's not forget though that THAT's the reason he's been hurt so much. He's always looking to take off and that has gotten him in trouble on several occasions. Vick does not have the size and durability of a Culpepper or Newton. So for the instances where he extends a drive here or there with his legs, you are almost guaranteeing that you won't see him for 4-5 games a season. The trade off just isn't worth it. Back to the combination of ability and character, I don't have one doubt in my mind that he'd still be fighting dogs if he hadn't been caught. I don't owe him forgiveness though just because he's served his time. The moment the Bills signed Michael Vick would be the moment I turn in my fan card. Regardless, he's at the end of his career anyway and we don't have to worry about that happening. Our worst case scenario at this point is that Fitzpatrick doesn't progress this year and we're looking at Matt Barkley or Landry Jones in next years draft. While this thread is pure fantasy, that's a little more realistic. So you don't believe in giving the guy a second chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 So you don't believe in giving the guy a second chance? He's getting his second chance with Phily. Other than that, I don't owe him anything. Do child molesters deserve a second chance because they get caught and do time? Murderers? Rapists? At the end of the day, this wasn't one random act for which he did time. He engaged in this activity for almost 6 years. The courts decided how long he would spend behind bars. While he's exhonnerated legally, he's not necessarily exhonnerated from the moral judgement of others that see what he did as a cruel, heinous, senseless act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 He's getting his second chance with Phily. Other than that, I don't owe him anything. Do child molesters deserve a second chance because they get caught and do time? Murderers? Rapists? At the end of the day, this wasn't one random act for which he did time. He engaged in this activity for almost 6 years. The courts decided how long he would spend behind bars. While he's exhonnerated legally, he's not necessarily exhonnerated from the moral judgement of others that see what he did as a cruel, heinous, senseless act. I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnews.com/michael-vick/2011/07/20/michael-vick-animal-rights-activist-seeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnew...eeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer. Classic flawed arguments. What Michael Vick did should be socially acceptable because he grew up around it and it's not worse than other things. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on peoples feelings that he did something morally objectionable. He knew it was illegal because he hid it. Yet he did it anyway for years and years. If he's so damned stupid to not be able to see that as a grown man, that's another reason to not like him. Stupidity is not a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For some of those who have grown up thinking that fantasy football production and a Madden rating define a players value to a team, this is no contest. To those that have an appreciation for what an individual human being brings to any group dynamic or who prefer not to live with the hypocrisy of wanting their team to succeed even though they are lead by a person whom they don't respect, the choice is also clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnews.com/michael-vick/2011/07/20/michael-vick-animal-rights-activist-seeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer. I wonder what he learned that changed his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For some of those who have grown up thinking that fantasy football production and a Madden rating define a players value to a team, this is no contest. To those that have an appreciation for what an individual human being brings to any group dynamic or who prefer not to live with the hypocrisy of wanting their team to succeed even though they are lead by a person whom they don't respect, the choice is also clear. Excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm not sure if Vick would actually bring any more wins to this team or not. A lot would depend on if we made changes to the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Nope!!! Too injury prone! Plus too much drama from the past. Bills need no issues on or off the field this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Classic flawed arguments. What Michael Vick did should be socially acceptable because he grew up around it and it's not worse than other things. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on peoples feelings that he did something morally objectionable. He knew it was illegal because he hid it. Yet he did it anyway for years and years. If he's so damned stupid to not be able to see that as a grown man, that's another reason to not like him. Stupidity is not a defense. I'm not saying it was socially acceptable I'm just saying that he grew up doing it and probably never questioned it. Are you trying to say that it is as bad as rape and murder? Don't forget that you're the one who brought that into the argument.. Either way you're ignoring the fact that he has changed and showed remorse for what he has done. He learned to view dogs as more than just animals and he realized that some people care about dogs (unlike the culture where he grew up). I'm not saying what he did was right, it was downright awful. But what does a guy have to do? He can't change the past.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For those that cry about giving him a second chance...just think about it for a split second. If an average person did this, how easy do you think he/she will find another job making millions of dollars again? You and I made this kinda mistake, we'd be flipping burgers and taking out the garbage for the rest of our lives. But the fact that he's a celebrity/athlete gives him a free pass. Just look at Donte Stallworth and a lot of these wortheless scum that's around the league. So no. He doesn't deserve a 2nd chance like this because an average person would never be given the same opportunity if this happened to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For those that cry about giving him a second chance...just think about it for a split second. If an average person did this, how easy do you think he/she will find another job making millions of dollars again? You and I made this kinda mistake, we'd be flipping burgers and taking out the garbage for the rest of our lives. But the fact that he's a celebrity/athlete gives him a free pass. Just look at Donte Stallworth and a lot of these wortheless scum that's around the league. So no. He doesn't deserve a 2nd chance like this because an average person would never be given the same opportunity if this happened to us. The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented. Vick would have been better off raping, and murdering children, he would have been forgiven much easier and quicker then doing anything to harm an animal, putting viscous dogs (Pitbulls) against each other (People make it sound like he threw shitzus and Pugs out in a pit against a rabid pitbull. its probably true that somone could get a similar job back after doing something like this and serving their sentence if they moved out of the area and started new. Problem is that many who have any kind of record find it hard to go back to their jobs because of the fact that most places when they do a background check will wonder why you went from a good stock broker job to a 3 year blank on your resume..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 NO! He doesn't have Fitz's ability to get the ball out to the open receiver in under 3 seconds. Vick has a better line,better WR's, better TE. Better scheme, better HC Fitz has been able to do more with less. Fitz even has about the very same escape ability as Vick. MV just doesn't get the ball out quickly enough to avoid all the hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm not saying it was socially acceptable I'm just saying that he grew up doing it and probably never questioned it. Are you trying to say that it is as bad as rape and murder? Don't forget that you're the one who brought that into the argument.. Either way you're ignoring the fact that he has changed and showed remorse for what he has done. He learned to view dogs as more than just animals and he realized that some people care about dogs (unlike the culture where he grew up). I'm not saying what he did was right, it was downright awful. But what does a guy have to do? He can't change the past.. Not my point at all. You're just not getting it. I don't have to pay attention that he changed or showed remorse. I view him as a piece of human garbage for what he did and I always will. I will not give him a pass because he did his time and appears to be showing remorse. I say appears, because I think it's all about P.R. and trying to resurrect what he had before. Same with any other crime. Child predators don't get a pass because they did time or went to counseling. Rapists that most often get sentences of 3 years or so can die and I won't care one iota. Classic arguments are always made by Vick nut huggers that "there's always something worse" or that "people eat meat", so it should somehow be OK that he participated in the electrocution of dogs because they wouldn't fight or lost a fight. At the end of the day, I stand by my points. Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. This is all Madden nonsense, where some Bills fan with a man crush on Vick really wants him to be on the team. It's not happening so we don't have to worry about the consequences if it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Not my point at all. You're just not getting it. I don't have to pay attention that he changed or showed remorse. I view him as a piece of human garbage for what he did and I always will. I will not give him a pass because he did his time and appears to be showing remorse. I say appears, because I think it's all about P.R. and trying to resurrect what he had before. Same with any other crime. Child predators don't get a pass because they did time or went to counseling. Rapists that most often get sentences of 3 years or so can die and I won't care one iota. Classic arguments are always made by Vick nut huggers that "there's always something worse" or that "people eat meat", so it should somehow be OK that he participated in the electrocution of dogs because they wouldn't fight or lost a fight. At the end of the day, I stand by my points. Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. This is all Madden nonsense, where some Bills fan with a man crush on Vick really wants him to be on the team. It's not happening so we don't have to worry about the consequences if it did. So basically you dont believe that people can change.. got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented. Your logic makes no sense what so ever. If you're not famous you'd never get your job back, whether your good at your job or not. Vick wasn't even a mediocre QB before coming to Philly and how do you explain Donte Stallworth? Here. Let's see what happens to me if I run someone over and kill someone. You think I'll be back at my old job or any job making the same kinda money I'm making now? Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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