Will Hairston Start ?

[BuffaloFan68]

I have confidence that this coaching staff will put the best players at the right position. The most important thing that we need to keep building is: Depth, Depth & more Depth. It would be nice to be able to rotate players and keep them fresh while not having any drop-off in production.

I haven't been this excited about the Bills since we got Sam Adams.

[Fan in San Diego]

First, this is not an attack on anybody, so calm down.....but to say Jason Peters was never considered a LT is not entirely accurate. If you check the BillsDaily archives there were some scouts who considered him the 2nd best LT prospect after Robert Gallery. They felt his skill set would make a position switch very possible, and some early mocks had him as a 3rd round pick. Why he went undrafted....who the hell knows, but the Bills were not the only team thinking this. Anyways, just a fun little tidbit not many remember hearing about. Carry on.

 

Oh, and as for a link just go to the BillsDaily draft page from the year Peters was drafted and you will see they had the Bills taking Peters in their mock.

 

If I remember right, Peters was drafted as a TE.

[NoSaint]

If I remember right, Peters was drafted as a TE.

if i remember right, he was undrafted, but played TE in college and that caused him to sliiiiiiide as an LT prospect. I dont think the long term plan in the NFL ever included the TE position though. obviously it has been a bit - but thats how i remember things.

[Fan in San Diego]

if i remember right, he was undrafted, but played TE in college and that caused him to sliiiiiiide as an LT prospect. I dont think the long term plan in the NFL ever included the TE position though. obviously it has been a bit - but thats how i remember things.

 

I think your right.

[BillyBaroo]

ill bite.

 

Hairston has question marks for sure. He just isnt that athletic. he isnt quick, his footwork wasnt terrific. he didnt fall on his face, but he hasnt earned a starting job either, in my book. coming out of the gate they are probably neck and neck (neither has EARNED a starting NFL job yet) - and honestly, by day one of training camp, i wouldnt be shocked to see the coaches running glenn with the 1s. Hairston is unlikely to grow into the premiere LT role, but i think the staff is confident that glenn does have the tools that they expect. Doesnt mean hairston is a poor player, or doesnt have a spot, but he is a project guy, and likely a good backup option at this point, if just trying to evaluate what he did on the field vs expectations from a position.

 

and to argue hairston is a tackle and glenn is a guard hybrid is silly. essentially they both have to prove they can play LT, or be shipped to a different spot. where that spot is, makes little difference in this argument.

Talking about Hairston not being that athletic - I know I haven't seen a lot from him - but I remember looking at the Combine clips with some game footage and thinking that Glenn looked kind of the same - not athletic with poor footwork. On the other hand - Zebrie Sanders looked great on those same clips. I have good feelings about Sanders - I think he might pan out!!

[K-9]

Talking about Hairston not being that athletic - I know I haven't seen a lot from him - but I remember looking at the Combine clips with some game footage and thinking that Glenn looked kind of the same - not athletic with poor footwork. On the other hand - Zebrie Sanders looked great on those same clips. I have good feelings about Sanders - I think he might pan out!!

 

Weren't you paying attention when Whaley said Glenn is a great "foot athlete?"

 

Seriously though, Glenn looked very impressive at the Sr. Bowl drills going up against some of he best in practice all week. He's gonna lose 15-20 lbs. and he'll be even better on his feet.

 

GO BILL!!!

[BillyBaroo]

Weren't you paying attention when Whaley said Glenn is a great "foot athlete?"

 

Seriously though, Glenn looked very impressive at the Sr. Bowl drills going up against some of he best in practice all week. He's gonna lose 15-20 lbs. and he'll be even better on his feet.

 

GO BILL!!!

I hope that I'm wrong - I can't take another Mike Williams bust. Every year I wish for the Bills to use a first rounder on a LT - and it also seems like we get fed this line of 1st round talent falling to the 2nd round. I know the Oline was much better last year - I just feel like we really need a dominant OT again

[Best Player Available]

It all depends upon how they perform. If Hairston comes to camp beefed up as Pears did and mans up, the job is his to lose. If he doesn't, and if Glenn is a quick study, he'll lose it.

 

 

 

This was sarcasm, right?

 

Not meaning to dump on PTR, he posts some good stuff, and sometimes some ...strange stuff.

 

 

 

Not just at you BPA, I'm becoming tired of the "you're a homer if you don't see it my way or agree with me!" line of argument.

 

What point does it serve, other than to highlight lack of other evidence or arguments?

Well, I certainly don't have the definition of a "homer" as you laid out. Look, I'm excited about the future of this team. But what I have noticed in this long off season is this. We sign a big time free agent. The biggest this century. All of a sudden IMO people are posting like adding a good DE instantly makes everyone else better. To the point that we now have a team of all pros, in some peoples opinion.. Whens the last time we had a pro bowl player that wasn't an alternate. Last year we were the only team in the NFL who had none. It's here to see every day of the week. People saying Fitz is better than Eli, Rodgers, Johnson is a top 5 receiver, etc. etc. Those IMO are homer comments. Based in nothing but fan excitement. That's OK I get it. But, We haven't won krap on the field, much less like a poster here today predicts were going to the super bowl. Now of course that would be nice. But, come on.

 

All of a sudden the stache is an all world coordinator when truth is he hasn't done anything at the NFL level this century, he got fired at the college level. He has a ring but remember he was handed the keys to a formula 1 car in dallas. I like the guy, but homers think his chit doesn't stink. It does he was here last year when the defense was downright laughable. IMO Gailey certainly had some big time brain farts on game day for sure. Sorry but it's true. So there is my explanation of a homer. No, I am not pissing in anyone's corn flakes. I expect big things this year.No excuses anymore Nix did his job. If not several heads should roll. I already am taking names.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ndirish1978]

Hairston starts the season.

 

1- Chan defers to experience

2- Hairston did a decent job last year thrust into a starting role with no offseason prep. I expect him to make a big jump this year.

[John from Riverside]

I like Maylock to but just because he is chirping in the background while Glenn is running his drills doesnt automatically make it so.....he cant even come out and correct himself for playing the wrong clip of a player while trying to downtalk Glenn when he was selected in the draft. My opinion of Maylock actually went DOWN after he just wouldnt publically own up to that.......

 

Thankfully I know something about O Line play so I could judge for myself at the combine drills Glenn has EXCELLENT footwork for a man his size.....some people dont understand the way pass blocking works I think.

 

- The reason why Gailey is so high on Glenn is because unlike a more athletic smaller OT (lets say Kahil) he has to get closer to the DE in order to play him because his pass protecting power punch comes from closer range (because he is not as strong) that means that as the DE moves.....the smaller OT has to move his feet faster with him.....because his length does lot allow for mistakes......if a DE gets leverage on the smaller less powerful player then he is beaten

 

- Then you have Cordy Glenn......who has abnormally long wingspan.....and incredibily powerful in the uppe body (which interestingly is the same situation with Hairston).....when a player of this strenght and wingspan plays a DE.....he is allowed to "punch" the DE from a further distance......the DE will not want to go into the OT's "strength" and will swim either outside or to the inside but not into the OT's body......this is where the length of the OT comes into play....Glenn does not have to move his feet as much as say Kahil would because of his arm length.....the fact that Glenn has very good feet makes it all the better but this is where the saying comes "when he is beat he really isnt beat" the DE can get the angle on the OT but all he has to do is extend his arms to overcome that. NOW.....even more interesting then that is Ziebrie Sandars also has good arm length AND is more athletic then Glenn I think that Glenn is the naturally stronger player. It amazes me that we got Sanders at that pick in the draft and he was a HIGHLY touted OT prospect before this past year and one bad game

 

 

Im not saying Glenn isn't going to get beat....I am saying that what Gailey loves about him is Glenn has the ability to get beat and STILL WIN the play....that arm length combined with that natural strenght combined with those feet makes for a MONSTER of a left tackle.

 

Glenn at the LT spot

Hairston at the RT spot

Sanders at the Swing OT spot

Im not sure what happens to Pears

[Bflojohn]

The argument is revolving around a four year starter in the SEC, who blocked bonified NFL talent his whole career at Georgia. Excuse me here, but what a sweet "dilemma" to have to deal with!! I also agree with those here that the ace in the hole is Zebrie Sanders once he gains the NFL physical capabilities of a starter at OLT. The Bills are suddenly in a very enviable position in this league, great depth abounds.

Note: I disagree with the depth chart in an earlier post, I think Kraig Urbik established himself as the back-up at Center when Eric Wood went down, just my opinion!!

[K-9]

I like Maylock to but just because he is chirping in the background while Glenn is running his drills doesnt automatically make it so.....he cant even come out and correct himself for playing the wrong clip of a player while trying to downtalk Glenn when he was selected in the draft. My opinion of Maylock actually went DOWN after he just wouldnt publically own up to that.......

 

Thankfully I know something about O Line play so I could judge for myself at the combine drills Glenn has EXCELLENT footwork for a man his size.....some people dont understand the way pass blocking works I think.

 

- The reason why Gailey is so high on Glenn is because unlike a more athletic smaller OT (lets say Kahil) he has to get closer to the DE in order to play him because his pass protecting power punch comes from closer range (because he is not as strong) that means that as the DE moves.....the smaller OT has to move his feet faster with him.....because his length does lot allow for mistakes......if a DE gets leverage on the smaller less powerful player then he is beaten

 

- Then you have Cordy Glenn......who has abnormally long wingspan.....and incredibily powerful in the uppe body (which interestingly is the same situation with Hairston).....when a player of this strenght and wingspan plays a DE.....he is allowed to "punch" the DE from a further distance......the DE will not want to go into the OT's "strength" and will swim either outside or to the inside but not into the OT's body......this is where the length of the OT comes into play....Glenn does not have to move his feet as much as say Kahil would because of his arm length.....the fact that Glenn has very good feet makes it all the better but this is where the saying comes "when he is beat he really isnt beat" the DE can get the angle on the OT but all he has to do is extend his arms to overcome that. NOW.....even more interesting then that is Ziebrie Sandars also has good arm length AND is more athletic then Glenn I think that Glenn is the naturally stronger player. It amazes me that we got Sanders at that pick in the draft and he was a HIGHLY touted OT prospect before this past year and one bad game

 

 

Im not saying Glenn isn't going to get beat....I am saying that what Gailey loves about him is Glenn has the ability to get beat and STILL WIN the play....that arm length combined with that natural strenght combined with those feet makes for a MONSTER of a left tackle.

 

Glenn at the LT spot

Hairston at the RT spot

Sanders at the Swing OT spot

Im not sure what happens to Pears

 

Excellent work, John. Spot on analysis about the importance of long arms at the LT position.

 

As for what happens to Pears, AT WORST, he becomes quality depth. Although I think it's gonna be tougher than some think to knock him out of the lineup. He did very well last season. Nice problem for the coaches to have for sure.

 

At the very least, pears may be served as a side-dish. Caramelized, of course.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Doc]

I like Maylock to but just because he is chirping in the background while Glenn is running his drills doesnt automatically make it so.....he cant even come out and correct himself for playing the wrong clip of a player while trying to downtalk Glenn when he was selected in the draft. My opinion of Maylock actually went DOWN after he just wouldnt publically own up to that.......

 

Thankfully I know something about O Line play so I could judge for myself at the combine drills Glenn has EXCELLENT footwork for a man his size.....some people dont understand the way pass blocking works I think.

 

- The reason why Gailey is so high on Glenn is because unlike a more athletic smaller OT (lets say Kahil) he has to get closer to the DE in order to play him because his pass protecting power punch comes from closer range (because he is not as strong) that means that as the DE moves.....the smaller OT has to move his feet faster with him.....because his length does lot allow for mistakes......if a DE gets leverage on the smaller less powerful player then he is beaten

 

- Then you have Cordy Glenn......who has abnormally long wingspan.....and incredibily powerful in the uppe body (which interestingly is the same situation with Hairston).....when a player of this strenght and wingspan plays a DE.....he is allowed to "punch" the DE from a further distance......the DE will not want to go into the OT's "strength" and will swim either outside or to the inside but not into the OT's body......this is where the length of the OT comes into play....Glenn does not have to move his feet as much as say Kahil would because of his arm length.....the fact that Glenn has very good feet makes it all the better but this is where the saying comes "when he is beat he really isnt beat" the DE can get the angle on the OT but all he has to do is extend his arms to overcome that. NOW.....even more interesting then that is Ziebrie Sandars also has good arm length AND is more athletic then Glenn I think that Glenn is the naturally stronger player. It amazes me that we got Sanders at that pick in the draft and he was a HIGHLY touted OT prospect before this past year and one bad game

 

 

Im not saying Glenn isn't going to get beat....I am saying that what Gailey loves about him is Glenn has the ability to get beat and STILL WIN the play....that arm length combined with that natural strenght combined with those feet makes for a MONSTER of a left tackle.

 

Glenn at the LT spot

Hairston at the RT spot

Sanders at the Swing OT spot

Im not sure what happens to Pears

WRT Glenn's quick feet, a point that needs re-emphasizing is he's got quick feet...at 345#! As for Sanders being more athletic, I can't agree with that. Glenn ran a 5.15 40-yard to Sanders' 5.41, and their other agility numbers were the same, but Glenn outweighed him by 25#. Losing weight will only help him in all those areas.

Note: I disagree with the depth chart in an earlier post, I think Kraig Urbik established himself as the back-up at Center when Eric Wood went down, just my opinion!!

Yeah, Urbik is definitely the backup C, unless Asper impresses.

[Hplarrm]

I think your right.

Myu recollection of the Peters path is:

 

1. Definitely showed great potential as a TE in college with great hands, a desired for the endzone, and great speed and athleticism for a TE, BUT he also showed questionable commitment to the team concept rather than to the team concept such that he was left undrafted.

 

2. The Bills identified him as one of the prime UDFA potential signees anu in the face of competition from a bunch of teams which reached the same conclusion signed him as a UDFA. I GUESS that this winning sells pitch to him had to have been the Bills made a case that it would pay off well for him as an individual to hitch his wagon to the Bills.

 

3. It also seems pretty widely reported that part of this sells pitch by the Bills was convincing him that 1. the Bills were committed to trying him at the TE position he was comfortable with, but also had designs on him and a likely opening at the OLT slot where the big bucks were and Mike Williams was our current highly vulnerable incumbent.

 

This of course is mostly theory as none of us was in the room, but there are some objective signs this happened as the Bills and Peters quickly agreed to him being assigned an OL # rather than a TE #. Mouse MacNally the Bills well respected OL coach went publicly in record early saying Peters was the best OL prospect he had ever seen.

 

Further, early in his career due to injuries, Peters actually played TE for the Bills late in a game, unfortunately he made the mental error of not reporting to the refs that he was playing TE with an OL # and the Bills got flagged (thus neatly sidetracking any demand from Peters that he be made a TE as the Bills did give him a shot there and through his own mental midgetry he sucked).

 

4. However, it did become clear in practice that Peters in fact was committed to making a big effort. Public reports were that he in essence was unblockable as an ST pass rusher in practice. This was apparently not lost upon the rest of the league and apparently as a player on our Pracitice Squad he was getting some sniffs (if not flat out offers) from other teams (who by rule could sign a player off of the PS of another team IF the player was signed to a permanent roster contract).

 

5. Peters was signed by the Bills to a permanent roster contract and made this payoff quickly as on one play he not only proved unblockable and blocked a punt but then showed the soft hands and end zone skills to collect the fumble and score a TD.

 

6. Yet, Peters showed so much potential as an OL player that the Bills actually decided to pass on his clear productivity as an ST ace and installed him as or starting RT. His ship quickly came in as this UDFA former TE signed a contract which was at starter RT level and longer term. However, it relatively quickly happened that Mike Williams became a clear bust after a brief resurgence which saw him earn a game ball for one outstanding performance. However, he slipped back into the same funk which began when the grammy that raised him died and he got fat and hurt. MW was switched to guard on his way out the door and Peters was switched to LT.

 

7. Peters not only stepped up to the plate and was a commanding OLT but even got the plaudits from his fellow players, opposing coaches and he fans to be voted to the Pro Bowl. This is where the wheels fell off. Peters and his agent took a stance that they were performing at the level of a Pro Bowl LT but that he was being paid at a market rate for a starting RT. This fact particularly galled on Peters as though he clearly was the marguee player on our our OL as an LT whom the Bills could comfortably allow to guard the QBs blindside, he in fact was paid less than folks such as Dockery and whathisname who was a stiff from the Raiders.

 

The Bills fiscal braintrust insisted that it was not their practice to extend a player under contract to a raise based mostly on a salary equity argument (even though this was exactly what they did giving a raise and contract extension to Schobel when they made a stupid signing of Kelsay to a contract far beyond his performance and prospects). They suggested that Peters simply be satisfied with being paid less than two lesser performing OL players and wait another season or so.

 

8. Peters and his agent instead under the rules sat out the off season non mandatory OTAs and even more stridently skipped training camp in a manner which would have made even Bruce Smith blush with pride. Even better for Peters, he showed up when he wanted, played without being fined game checks and was still voted to the Pro Bowl team.

 

9. The Bills braintrust then added self-induced injury to the insults being hurled now by both sides by simply giving in the Paters by trading him to Philly where he cased in for a huge contract 9an even larger on than he likely would have signed with the Bills for if we had giving him something like the market rate for a starting LT when Mr. Ralph was enjoying getting LT production at RT cap rates.

 

These are the details as I rembember them from the Peters saga.

 

Was Peters a money grubbing self centered performer?

 

You bet!

 

Were the Bills beancounters led by Littman for Mr. Ralph even worse?

 

You double down bet this also is true!

[eball]

FWIW, at the just completed rookie minicamp Glenn lined up exclusively at LT and Sanders lined up exclusively at RT. Asper lined up exclusively at C.

 

This exclusive report courtesy of Chris Brown's blog.

[Mike in Syracuse]

I think the Bills' wish list for how the OL pans out might look something like this:

 

LT: Glenn (S), Sanders

LG: Levitre (S), Rinehart/Asper

C: Wood (S), Brown/Asper

RG: Urbik (S), Rinehart/Jasper?

RT: Pears (S), Hairston

 

(with Hairston and Sanders able to backup both tackle spots)

 

I believe Glenn will be given every opportunity to win the starting LT job in training camp.

 

I think you'll see something like this:

LT: Glenn (S), Hairston

LG: Levitre (S), Rinehart/Asper

C: Wood (S), Brown/Asper

RG: Urbik (S), Rinehart/Jasper?

RT: Pears (S), Sanders

 

One thing is perfectly clear, Nix didn't feel like our OL was anywhere near big enough and he's made changes to correct that. It makes me think that Buddy's initial assessmen to this roster was pretty low. He knew it would take at least 3 years and he's been spot on with everything he's said.

 

John's spot on, Sanders has great foot speed. If anyone's interested, here's their workouts:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d827c99c3/2012-combine-workout-Cordy-Glenn

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d827d1f3e/2012-combine-workout-Zebrie-Sanders

Edited May 13, 2012 by Mike in Syracuse

[artmalibu]

To say who is going to start at this point is crazy. The coaches dont know who is starting yet. All jobs will be an open competition.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Well, I certainly don't have the definition of a "homer" as you laid out.

 

Acknowledged - as I said, that wasn't just aimed at you.

 

Look, I'm excited about the future of this team. But what I have noticed in this long off season is this. We sign a big time free agent. The biggest this century. All of a sudden IMO people are posting like adding a good DE instantly makes everyone else better. To the point that we now have a team of all pros, in some peoples opinion.. Whens the last time we had a pro bowl player that wasn't an alternate. Last year we were the only team in the NFL who had none. It's here to see every day of the week. People saying Fitz is better than Eli, Rodgers, Johnson is a top 5 receiver, etc. etc. Those IMO are homer comments. Based in nothing but fan excitement. That's OK I get it. But, We haven't won krap on the field, much less like a poster here today predicts were going to the super bowl. Now of course that would be nice. But, come on.

 

I appreciate what I take from this as your main point - be excited, but be rational, don't go over the top. Counterbalance: some people go over the top in the other direction, too. and I think that elicits the "equal and opposite reaction"

 

The thing is, BPA, I haven't actually read any of the sentiments you outline above per se.....I haven't read anyone saying "we have a team of all pros" or Fitz is better than Eli and Rodgers, or Johnson is a top 5 receiver.

And I'm reading the same board. Do you think sometimes people say things that others aren't reading carefully and misinterpret - and react to the misinterpretation? For example, I and others have pointed out that leading the league in INTs doesn't disqualify a QB from being a good QB or leading his team in the playoffs...with the example that Eli Manning led the league in INTs last year and won the SB this year. That is NOT, and should not be interpreted as, saying that Fitz is better than Eli - it's just making the single point that having a bad year for INTs doesn't mean a QB is sh*t for his career. I hear most people saying Fitz is a middle-of-the-pack NFL starter

 

I do think adding one really good player can make everyone better. I know I heard comments from Gailey his first year that Wood made everyone on the line better. I believe it from what I've seen of the line +/- Wood.

I also think Dareus and Kyle Williams are very good players, with the potential to be pro-bowlers - and putting Mario next to them WILL instantly make everyone better. That's not the same as saying "we now have a team of all pros".

And in fact almost to a man people do express reservations about our LBs either as starters or as depth, and about whether Kyle will be back 100% and so forth.

 

As for the Superbowl thing- I see a lot of jocularity on the topic and I go with the Senator. 19-0 baby. If you can't dream in the off-season, when can you dream?

 

I do agree with you that we (at least theoretically) have put a good team together, a better team than we've had for the last decade - so there should, indeed, be no excuses.

[eball]

To say who is going to start at this point is crazy. The coaches dont know who is starting yet. All jobs will be an open competition.

To be fair, I think the whole point of this thread is speculation.

 

After reading that Sanders took all minicamp reps at RT, I do now tend to think the Bills are looking for him to challenge Pears.

[PromoTheRobot]

These are the details as I rembember them from the Peters saga.

 

Was Peters a money grubbing self centered performer?

 

You bet!

 

Were the Bills beancounters led by Littman for Mr. Ralph even worse?

 

You double down bet this also is true!

And what did Philadelphia get for $11M a year? A player who gets voted to the Pro Bowl and not much else. There is a right way to ask for a raise and a wrong way. I'm my book you never reward a selfish player.

 

PTR