CosmicBills Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think switching to a 4-3 just ended the idea of drafting upshaw because we need a full time DE now. If we draft defense with the first pick I'd guess we are down to coples or ingram at our pick at this point. I'm pulling for Melvin Ingram still. This to me is good news and I think we might draft an OLB with the second pick, maybe a guy like ronnell lewis from oklahoma. Ha! That implies this front office has a plan. They don't. As they made clear today. Nix is impotent and unable (or unwilling) to make the changes necessary to elevate this team. Year 3 of a rebuild and they're starting over on a SCHEME level. That's not a bad thing, it's a disaster. This franchise was a joke before. It's a goddamn trainwreck after today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'd take Dwan over Troup at this point. Dwan Edwards is a solid player who plays consistent football and has shown he can play an entire game. Troup is still young and learning but it is debatable if he is progressing. Dwan will make the team over Troup, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him bumped in to DT some. We won't be a cold-hard 4-3. We will switch. Despite Troup's injuries, I think youth will win over in this battle. Not that I think Troup is a better player than Edwards, but he was our second round draft pick in 2010. I don't think Buddy is ready to give up on him just yet. Besides, Edwards is a prototypical 3-4 DE. He holds his ground, but I don't see him as a penetrating DT in a 4-3 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Merriman will be situational if he even makes the team. He's never rushed with a hand on the ground and it's a huge leap to hope he can in his 8th NFL season. I wouldn't hate the idea of using him as a situational pass rusher. I know he's a bit pricey for spot duty, but it would increase the chances of keeping him healthy and give us multiple fronts for opposing offenses to scheme for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) this might be a good thing for moats and bannon. I'm assuming you meant Moats and Batten. In what way would it be a good thing for them? Seems to me that they're position-less in a 43, don't have the necessary skill sets for either DE or OLB. Defiantly not on an every down basis. Perhaps Moats could stick as a pass rush specialist. Edited January 30, 2012 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Merriman will be situational if he even makes the team. He's never rushed with a hand on the ground and it's a huge leap to hope he can in his 8th NFL season. He did it in college and on the Bills last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How does it affect things? A lot. 1) Bills have at least 3 LBS that should be able to play MLB. They have one that might be able to play OLB... and then a huge dropoff. No one has ever played OLB in a 43 on the current roster. So, there needs to be at least 2-3 43 OLBs brought in. No ands, ifs, or buts. 2) All of the Bills Defensive lineman (except Kelsay)(not counting the two street FAs the Bills pickeup toward the end of the season) are all 300 and above. Well, DEs in the 43 usually weigh in anywhere from 240 lbs. to 275 lbs. Jenny Craig ain't running the strength and conditioning program and neither is nutrisystem. So, do the math... a few of them will be sent packing and new and competent ones brought in. In other words, one step forward 2 steps backwards. I aint saying the Bills won't improve significantly on defense. But by the time that happens will the Bills still be in Buffalo? You'll see Barnett and Scott start at OLB I'd bet. The NFL is so pass orientated that most schemes are really a 4-2 nickel anyways, which shouldn't be a problem for either. The big question is how will Sheppard hold up at MLB? That's a big reach imo. (Also I believe we have to re-sign Scott) The line will see Kelsey, Dareus and Williams all return to their natural positions, which should pay huge dividends immediately. Getting the other DE will be a problem, they are going to have to spend some cash to get a Cliff Avril type to come to town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm assuming you meant Moats and Batten. In what way would it be a good thing for them? Seems to me that they're position-less in a 43, don't have the necessary skill sets for either DE or OLB. Defiantly not on an every down basis. Perhaps Moats could stick as a pass rush specialist. yes of course batten, I think batten will line up at end his natural position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Um... during this entire 3-4 experiment, we never had a nose tackle type. Dareus and KW are both 4-3 tackles and should excel there. To me, nothing in this switch indicates we don't need to address our need for OLB's in a dramatic way. If you watch the wannstadt clip when he breaks down barnett's game against tennessee, you will see he can be a fine olb in a 4/3 allignment Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR I think it just kind of fell this way. Wannstadt falling into their laps. Ending up with darius and williams on the roster together. Plus finding it hard to get the right pieces it just makes sense to go to 4/3 base Edited January 31, 2012 by jcbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR So you are calling out the fans.........because Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix chose to go 3-4, it failed and now Chan is waffling back to a 4-3? What's next? Blaming Bills fans for drafting Torrell Troup? The Toronto series? The resilience of Tom Modrak? Ralph's broken hip? Yeah, clearly 12 years of crap football is all because of the actions of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR Yes. Gailey even said he wanted a 3-4 defense because as an offensive coordinator he knew how hard it was to play against. Two drafts later they still don't have the personnel to run it and are still best suited to run the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 any thoughts could it be kelsey williams darius carrington merriaman sheppard barnett looks like dwan edwards might be out of a job this might be a good thing for moats and bannon. with troupe and spencer johnson they are very deep at tackle If the first round pick is coples then carrington becomes the top back up That would be utter disaster. In the end it was a smart move, when you are starring at williams and daruis they should be the focal part of your d. Plus I agree with Chan's points in reguards to finding 4/3 players is easier . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR The Stash Two things will probably come of this..... - You will see Some guys lose weight to play DE in the 3-4 like Carrington - Couples is now probably the target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think switching to a 4-3 just ended the idea of drafting upshaw because we need a full time DE now. If we draft defense with the first pick I'd guess we are down to coples or ingram at our pick at this point. I'm pulling for Melvin Ingram still. This to me is good news and I think we might draft an OLB with the second pick, maybe a guy like ronnell lewis from oklahoma. Agree, syrcuse. I mentioned last night that the supply of good 4-3 players in this draft is better in quantity and quality. Supply is higher and demand is actually lower for OLB43 and DE43 compared to OLB34 and DE34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR several things...the recent pass happy offenses have made teams who normally play 3-4 techniques--play 4-3 techniques and vice versa.. Plus, this Bills team tried to install the 3-4, but the 4-3 caters to the players we already have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR Not me man - gonna call "I told you so" on that one - sorry! At the time I believe I said "don't be the last team to go with the 'popular' system - be the first team to catch the next wave", and for precisely the reason Gailey is hinting at: If more teams are going 3-4 you have more teams to compete with for the same types of players from a fixed talent pool. There are like 3 or 4 legitimate defensive styles out there - the smart play is to use which ever one is the least popular. Maybe that's part of why the Pats* switched to 4-3. Sadly, I fear the Bills may be a little late on this wave too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR Reality set in....that's the simple answer. A fuller version of same said truth would be that while the 3-4 is a great scheme to run when you HAVE the talent, locating that talent and making that transition for a team that was weak in multiple areas when Nix/Chan took over the team is just too steep a hill to climb and still be competitive....the teams that made the 3-4 transition successfully were teams that were already stacked in talent and had strengths in other areas to allow that team to transition over the course of several seasons....and for sure, our decade drought of missing the playoffs along with routinely being the whipping boy of the AFC East adds to the overall frustration with the state of the team and another year of missing the playoffs....now, we all just want to WIN!!!! Regardless of the style of Defense, we just want to freakin WIN!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I just did a full change to the Bills Positional Needs at DraftTek due to the 4-3 alignment. Won't be in Wednesday's mock, but will be in thereafter. I did a simulation using the new Positional Needs. 1-Zach Brown OLB43 North Carolina 2-Juron Criner WRF Arizona 3-Andre Branch DE43 Clemson 4-Michael Egnew TE Missouri 4-Josh Robinson CB Central Florida The RD1 short list is now: Quinton Coples DE43, Zach Brown OLB43, Melvin Ingram DE43. The long list adds Riley Reiff OT, Jonathan Martin OT, and Alfonzo Dennard CB. I think Kirkpatrick and Still are gone by our pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm assuming you meant Moats and Batten. In what way would it be a good thing for them? Seems to me that they're position-less in a 43, don't have the necessary skill sets for either DE or OLB. Defiantly not on an every down basis. Perhaps Moats could stick as a pass rush specialist. Wasn't Moats a 4-3 DE in College? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Wasn't Moats a 4-3 DE in College? Yes, pretty sure, and he'd be a pass rusher for us in the 4-3. buffalobills.com message board thinks our weakest position is DE43, and I disagree. I think it's still OLB43. Barnett is solid, but we need another sideline to sideline, TE-covering, slobberknocker! I'm thinking Zach Brown, Lavonte David, Ronnell Lewis. And maybe 2 of the above. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I give credit to Gailey, Wannstedt and Nix for adjusting to the personnel they got and what's out there in the draft and free agency. I thought the 3-4 was the way to go. It wasn't. Glad they stopped doing what they weren't doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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