Bills Going 4/3 defense

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Bills are actually set up pretty well to run the 40 front 4-3.

They ran a lot of forty front last year, true. Saying they ran it "pretty well" must be a joke. George Edwards got fired.

[Fisher Bills]

I think we could trade down 5-10 spots (probably wont happen) and sure up our last LB position with Keulchy, Zach Brown, Vontaze Burflict or Hightower. And we could get an extra late 2 rounder. And in the second get Vinny Curry ( who was the best DE at the senior bowl) and with that late 2nd rounder get TE Fleener from standford or a CB

[Coach Tuesday]

This is what happens when you hire a first-time GM (after several unsuccessful other first-time GMs). There is a difference between being a scout and being a team-builder. Nix wasted a high pick on Spiller (not that he isn't a good player, but he clearly was not needed given FJ and Lynch), then wasted the rest of that draft assembling players for a scheme he (and his poor coaching hires) couldn't run. The last two years have been the cost of letting Nix learn on the job how to be a GM. At least he seems to be learning, but man, is he lucky to be in an organization where accountability runs shallow and patience runs deep...

[MikeSpeed]

I think everyone assumed we'd be switching back to the 4-3 when Wanny was made the DC. I just cannot figure out why we would announce it and remove all doubt, especially before the draft? The draft is a huge poker game, and should be approached as one. Hold your cards close to the vest, and make others make unnecessary moves. By saying who we are, we've now given 3-4 teams a sigh of relief so they won't need to risk a draft day move to jump over us for a 3-4 player. The other 4-3 teams now may consider moving up ahead of us for the same type players we may want. Why not make our draft better by making other teams worse?

 

This doesn't even take in to account any moves we may make.

Makes no sense!

[CosmicBills]

I dont think the change is that big of a deal for 2 reasons. First, (sadly) our personnell is still best suited for a 4-3. Second, you play with 5 or 6 DBs on the field what, probably close to 60% of the time. So 60% of the time we had a 4 man front anyway.

If the Bills should be criticized for anything, it should be for switching to the 3-4, but not committing the necessary resources and not having the necessary plan to successfully convert.

But what makes you think that they've learned anything? They walked down a path for 2 seasons, then changed their minds (after not really trying to do it in the first place) -- who's to say they won't flip again?

 

It's all a big game. One Bills Drive is either uncommitted to winning or too incompetent to win. Either way the joke is on us fans.

[Ramius]

But what makes you think that they've learned anything? They walked down a path for 2 seasons, then changed their minds (after not really trying to do it in the first place) -- who's to say they won't flip again?

 

It's all a big game. One Bills Drive is either uncommitted to winning or too incompetent to win. Either way the joke is on us fans.

 

I think Nix is doing the best he can given the circumstances. For all we know, Nix may have wanted to make a run at Soliai as an NT and Mario Williams as OLB to bolster the D and run the 3-4. But its is painfully obvious that with Littman/Overdouche/ralphie, winning comes second to profits. The business side of OBD is NOT committed to winning. So the edict comes down, as usual, that the Bills won't be players in FA, meaning Nix has to rearrange the deck chairs, err, scheme, to fit players we've got instead of attempting to build something.

[tombstone56]

I think Nix is doing the best he can given the circumstances. For all we know, Nix may have wanted to make a run at Soliai as an NT and Mario Williams as OLB to bolster the D and run the 3-4. But its is painfully obvious that with Littman/Overdouche/ralphie, winning comes second to profits. The business side of OBD is NOT committed to winning. So the edict comes down, as usual, that the Bills won't be players in FA, meaning Nix has to rearrange the deck chairs, err, scheme, to fit players we've got instead of attempting to build something.

 

IM HOPING YOUR WRONG FOR A CPLE REASONS..THIS YEAR WE FIND OUT .. nix and gaileys first year was evaluating ,,say good bye trent!!!. ,,last year with the cba i think most teams just were not going to do much,,but this year we find out the truth ,,

if they go after some obvious need players then id say the last 2 years were as i stated but if they sit on the sidelines i guess it will be another sad season.i think as much of the game these days is the offseason as what you see on the field,, so under nix im cautiously optimistic for a change of thinking .

its kinda curious to note that pegula ,sabres owner, bought a business (of agents) that represents players.what better way to see some the real costs in nfl ownership than to have access the players contracts..

[Turbosrrgood]

I think everyone assumed we'd be switching back to the 4-3 when Wanny was made the DC. I just cannot figure out why we would announce it and remove all doubt, especially before the draft? The draft is a huge poker game, and should be approached as one. Hold your cards close to the vest, and make others make unnecessary moves. By saying who we are, we've now given 3-4 teams a sigh of relief so they won't need to risk a draft day move to jump over us for a 3-4 player. The other 4-3 teams now may consider moving up ahead of us for the same type players we may want. Why not make our draft better by making other teams worse?

 

This doesn't even take in to account any moves we may make.

Makes no sense!

 

I don't think this will make a bit of difference in that regard. It's been pretty well assumed that we would be doing this anyway, it's not going to change anyone's draft plan...

 

What it MIGHT do, is entice true 4-3 DE's to come play for the Bills. Guys like Williams and Avril are going to be tough sells regardless, but not knowing for sure what kind of scheme we are running would be a death knell to our chances...The Bills need to do everything in their power and more, if they are going to have a chance at top end FA's...

 

I've always thought that the 3-4 defense, with the right players and coaching is by far the best defense in football. However as Gailey said, finding those players is very difficult, and we obviously don't have a 3-4 coach. I have to say though, the thought of KW and Dareus playing together as tackles sounds like a very good start to defensive improvement. If the Bills offense can play like they did early last year, and if the defense can become at least a mid-level defense, they would certainly have a shot at playoffs.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I just did a full change to the Bills Positional Needs at DraftTek due to the 4-3 alignment. Won't be in Wednesday's mock, but will be in thereafter.

 

I did a simulation using the new Positional Needs.

 

1-Zach Brown OLB43 North Carolina

2-Juron Criner WRF Arizona

3-Andre Branch DE43 Clemson

4-Michael Egnew TE Missouri

4-Josh Robinson CB Central Florida

 

The RD1 short list is now:

Quinton Coples DE43,

Zach Brown OLB43,

Melvin Ingram DE43.

 

The long list adds Riley Reiff OT, Jonathan Martin OT, and Alfonzo Dennard CB.

I think Kirkpatrick and Still are gone by our pick.

Isn't Branch high 2nd round?

 

I'd go Mercilus or Ingram first round and Lavonte David in the third who is just as much a tackling machine as Brown.

[Turbosrrgood]

According to Gailey, he pretty much awarded the MLB job to Sheppard, meaning Barnett will almost certainly be playing weakside LB. Zack Brown also looks like a weakside LB type. I'd be shocked if the Bills took him with the 10th pick in the draft. They need a pass rushing DE, a strong side OLB, a WR, and maybe an OT.

 

Yes they say Brown can play both positions, but the guy is 5-10 220, he makes Coy Wire seem like Ray Lewis. Sorry if I have my doubts... I just don't see him being a top 10, or even 20 pick.

 

I know, yeah yeah, the old size argument...But can you picture a 5-10 220 LB covering or tackling Gronkowski (6-6, 265)?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[Cash]

I just did a full change to the Bills Positional Needs at DraftTek due to the 4-3 alignment. Won't be in Wednesday's mock, but will be in thereafter.

 

I did a simulation using the new Positional Needs.

 

1-Zach Brown OLB43 North Carolina

 

Ugh.

 

Yes, pretty sure, and he'd be a pass rusher for us in the 4-3.

 

buffalobills.com message board thinks our weakest position is DE43, and I disagree. I think it's still OLB43. Barnett is solid, but we need another sideline to sideline, TE-covering, slobberknocker! I'm thinking Zach Brown, Lavonte David, Ronnell Lewis. And maybe 2 of the above. Anyone else?

 

Astro, I love you dearly, and thank you deeply for your work over at draftek, but I strongly disagree. Barnett is already the every-down LB and will continue to be. Last year, the other nickel LB was Bryan Scott, and you don't have any other LB playing in the dime. So whoever we put at the other OLB spot is only going to play like a third of the downs on D. Maybe OLB43 really is our weakest position, but it's so much less important than DE43, it can't come close to justifying a top 10 pick. I see OLB #2 as the least important position in any 4-3 defense.

 

I do agree that the Bills need more quality OLB43's -- probably at least 2, 1 of whom can play on passing downs -- but taking one at #10 overall is just a waste of a draft pick. Give me a good DE or WR or OT or even CB all day. (Having said that, none of the DEs in this draft really excite me, and I'd rather reach for a good player at an unimportant position than draft a future bust at an important position.)

 

[Edited to remove paragraph about how a player is too small based on incorrect info about his size.]

Edited January 31, 2012 by Cash

[Rob's House]

According to Gailey, he pretty much awarded the MLB job to Sheppard, meaning Barnett will almost certainly be playing weakside LB. Zack Brown also looks like a weakside LB type. I'd be shocked if the Bills took him with the 10th pick in the draft. They need a pass rushing DE, a strong side OLB, a WR, and maybe an OT.

 

Yes they say Brown can play both positions, but the guy is 5-10 220, he makes Coy Wire seem like Ray Lewis. Sorry if I have my doubts... I just don't see him being a top 10, or even 20 pick.

 

I know, yeah yeah, the old size argument...But can you picture a 5-10 220 LB covering or tackling Gronkowski (6-6, 265)?

I saw Zach Brown listed at 6'2" 231 lb.

 

I think he'd be perfect, especially if we can get Merriman back or a FA pass rusher, and get another pass rush DE in the 2nd or 3rd.

 

Having an athletic cover LB who can cover guys like Gronk would be huge in our division. It would be one of the few times we got ahead of the trend.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Rob's House

[Ramius]

I still think you can draft Upshaw at #10. I don't care what the "scheme" says he fits or doesn't fit. Dude's a football player, plain and simple, something we don't have enough of.

[MikeSpeed]

I don't think this will make a bit of difference in that regard. It's been pretty well assumed that we would be doing this anyway, it's not going to change anyone's draft plan...

 

What it MIGHT do, is entice true 4-3 DE's to come play for the Bills. Guys like Williams and Avril are going to be tough sells regardless, but not knowing for sure what kind of scheme we are running would be a death knell to our chances...The Bills need to do everything in their power and more, if they are going to have a chance at top end FA's...

 

I've always thought that the 3-4 defense, with the right players and coaching is by far the best defense in football. However as Gailey said, finding those players is very difficult, and we obviously don't have a 3-4 coach. I have to say though, the thought of KW and Dareus playing together as tackles sounds like a very good start to defensive improvement. If the Bills offense can play like they did early last year, and if the defense can become at least a mid-level defense, they would certainly have a shot at playoffs.

I guess we’ll agree to disagree.

I feel doubt, no matter how small, is still an advantage when it comes to drafting or FA’s. You can still tell FA’s that we’re going to a 4-3, but why announce it to the whole league?

[mob16151]

They ran a lot of forty front last year, true. Saying they ran it "pretty well" must be a joke. George Edwards got fired.

 

Add a healthy Williams and another legit NFL DE to the mix, and the team is well set up. The most important part of the 40 front is dominant DT's, and thankfully the Bills have 2 of them. Dude not to come across like a d*ck(I mean that seriously btw), but do you consider things that things change as seasons move forward? Players get healthy,overmatched coordinators get fired,free agents and draftees get added to the mix, etc,etc?

Edited January 31, 2012 by mob16151

[BeastMode54]

If we had never switched to the 3-4 we still might have Schobel. Pass rush solved...

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Seeing how the Bills never had the personnel to run a 3-4 defense. NOR the stupid failed Tampa 2.

 

the 4-3 was more effective many years ago, at least the Bills were not ranked LAST in either the run or the pass. oops see ranking pasted below

Edited January 31, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[CodeMonkey]

I feel doubt, no matter how small, is still an advantage when it comes to drafting or FA’s. You can still tell FA’s that we’re going to a 4-3, but why announce it to the whole league?

Whatever you think of ChaNix, they aren't totally clueless. They announced it for a reason. Wanny has been out of the DC game since 1999, and when he was a DC it was 4-3. Maybe making this announcement is an attempt to remove doubt in FAs mind enough so that they will at least agree to talk to the Bills. Who knows.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

2011 total defense 26th

 

2009 total defense 19th

 

2008 total defense 14th

 

2007 total defense 31st ouch

 

2006 total defense 18th

 

2005 total defense 29th ouch again

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004/seasontype/2

 

2004 total defense 2 nd

[QCity]

Does it REALLY say, "Nix is a good guy, he admits when he's wrong and will do what's right to change it even if it means admitting a mistake"? Or does it say, "it took us TWO YEARS to realize something everyone's been saying since we got here"? And if it's the later, doesn't that PISS YOU OFF?

It says the former. I do love the rhetoric used in the latter however. "TWO YEARS," as if switching a defensive scheme is something often accomplished in 2 weeks - and "something everyone's been saying since we got here" which of course no one has been saying. In fact, there were people rejoicing to "give Jauron's small, fast, dome defense the boot" all over the forums.

 

So on one hand you are tired of the "same 'ol, same 'ol" at One Bills Drive, and on the other hand you don't want them to attempt to change. Which is it?

 

Don't worry, you don't have to answer. The fact that you watched them miss the playoffs for 12 years doesn't qualify you as a football expert, only a whiner. Seriously, get the sand out of your vagina.