FistingBot Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 bad things man. Bad things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Wait a second, while all this is good speculation....JW if you're reading this, can you clarify if that's what Nix was implying? You mention Nix didn't handle trade talks - can you expand on knowledge of whether this is uncommon for Nix? You don't have a quote from Nix in the article and I can't find any other AP related story in which Nix implies he didn't want to trade Evans. The only direct information I can find is an interview in which he seems to say he made that decision: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/videonetwork/1108251671001/Buddy-Nix-talks-about-the-Lee-Evans-trade I'm wondering if other factors he doesn't want to publicly state is the fact that Evans asked to be traded. Chris Brown has reported Lee Evans wanted out. Remember, the Bills had just paid him a $1.1 million in bonus money. If this was just a money decision, they could have traded him in the off-season and saved that cash. I seem to recall Nix saying he didn't want any player that didn't want to be a Bill. I can't find any interview with Evans in which he was asked if he wanted to be traded. His comments once the rumors started didn't exactly sound like someone who was looking to stay a Bill. He basically said "Well, we'll see what happens!" Am I understanding correctly that with the new salary cap floor next year, like it or not the Bills are going to have to add ~35m in roster salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Reading that was like a punch in the gut. We wonder why Buffalo doesn't attract more free agent talent? Look at the attitudes of the guys on the team currently. I don't blame leaders like Jackson and Florence for complaining - i feel bad for them and the other guys. This s**t trickles down from the very top, and is just one big middle finger to us. Yes indeed. It's not small-market,/ small-town Buffalo that's the problem, it's the Hall Of Fame owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'll repost this in this thread, which is the real topic at hand. In answer to K-9's good question of why would Nix stand for this, I stated... This is just my speculation from what I know, have heard from very good sources, and have surmised,. I think that since Overdork handles all of the salary cap stuff and all contracts, he has power over Nix on some aspects of the typical GM job. Overdork has been here forever and he's Ralph's man (who happens to work from behind the curtain). We heard he has cut players before, like Troy Vincent and others, and has that power. So if he thinks he can save 7 mil total this year and next by jettisoning Evans, he can do it and Nix doesn't have much say. But Nix is not going to jeopardize his job, or the organization by publicly announcing it. It's my belief that Nix and gailey were very likely told before they came on board that Overdork holds that power, and there may be times when they are powerless over personnel decisions. It won't happen all the time but it could happen. That may be why a bigger name was not hired, maybe they wouldn't work under those conditions but that is total conjecture. I have not heard that anyway. It seems possible. I also believe that Gailey and Nix are both very qualified for their jobs but they likely weren't going to get this opportunity anywhere else but Buffalo. Nix very unlikely. Gailey probably not either. I think, rightfully, they thought to themselves can I live with this? And at their age, and what they want out of life and their work, they decided yes. Maybe if they were a little younger they could have taken a stand against it. Maybe if they had a little more power or opportunity they could have walked away. All I know is if I were either of them, I would have very likely taken the job like they did, knowing it wasn't ideal. But better than not having a GM job or NFL Head Coach job at all, and never realizing your real dreams. Again, that is just my reading on it. And I can't blame them. But it explains a lot. It also explains why, perhaps, they didn't offer Clabo more. Overdork does the contracts. All of them. I can't honestly say that I know how other NFL teams operate behind the scenes but I doubt any one of them has a bean counter making these kinds of football and personnel decisions as opposed to a GM and talent evaluator who learned how to work the cap and negotiate contracts. Overdork never was a talent guy or football guy, he is a glorified accountant (GG says he's a lawyer, which I believe is true but to me he is acting as accountant not a lawyer). And he is making football decisions like getting rid of Lee Evans. It is no wonder we are where we are. It's possible that Nix and Gailey can overcome this handicap. But it surely makes it much harder. And not all of the grumbling by guys like Fred Jackson can be put on them. Look for the Man Behind the Curtain. THIS!!!! THIS!!!! 1000X THIS!!!!! I'm so sad that this really rings truest to me of all explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 SaviorEdwards Savior Edwards Source: Power struggle at OBD creating 'an ugly mess' that is spilling over into lockerroom. b]SaviorEdwards Savior Edwards Source: Jim Overdorf overruled Buddy Nix on Lee Evans trade when a better offer for a 3rd round pick was on the table from another team. WOW[/b] If true, we're in deep doo-doo. OK, even if the team is trying to pinch Ralph's pennies, in what bizarro world would a 4th be a preferable return to that? The news / banter just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Yeah, it seems that many Bills fans are still under the delusion that the "football transactions" the team makes (or doesn't make) are actually about football and not about economics. I understand about all these past failed regimes and players from those past failed regimes being cut to create way for upcoming new regime players, but this process of watching, cutting costs and picking the players to form the right chemistry is apart of this rebuilding phase going back to Wade--is starting to wear us ALL down.... However, every winning team has to do this...it's just most of the teams take LESS time to rebuild! When I look at this situation I feel like the Bills sometimes are the football version of the Indians in the movie Major League! Edited August 23, 2011 by KollegeStudnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I just got done reading that article. It's clear to me now that with Overdorf's involvement and Nix's exclusion in the Evans deal, the Bills are in total cost cutting and savings mode. They will most likely do this until they have to meet a cap floor in 2013. In the meantime I fear things are going to get extremely fugly, especially in the locker room. I think we're seeing signs of that already. If Nix and Gailey have any self-respect they'll offer up their resignations. Why would they want to work in their current capacities when their hands are obviously so tied? GO BILLS!!! Well, if it's a race to the bottom by spending as little as possible before the 2013 cash spending floor for individual teams kicks in, maybe we should be looking at which potential franchise QBs might be available in the April, 2013 draft. I like Fitz, but if we win the race to the bottom by dumping high salaries, 2013 may be our best window of opportunity to get a true franchise QB. I'm not suggesting the team should try to lose, but if the owner's spending mandates tie the GM/coach's hands, maybe that's realistically what we will be looking at. At least the new 2011 CBA will REQUIRE the 2013 Bills to spend 89% of the then-applicable salary cap in cash. Starting with the 2013 season, our GM/coach will then have no more than an 11% spending handicap (averaged over the long term) to overcome to put a winning team on the field, regardless of how little the owner would prefer to spend if given the choice. Wonder how many talented players we will have left to build around in 2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastRochBillsfan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I just got done reading that article. It's clear to me now that with Overdorf's involvement and Nix's exclusion in the Evans deal, the Bills are in total cost cutting and savings mode. They will most likely do this until they have to meet a cap floor in 2013. In the meantime I fear things are going to get extremely fugly, especially in the locker room. I think we're seeing signs of that already. If Nix and Gailey have any self-respect they'll offer up their resignations. Why would they want to work in their current capacities when their hands are obviously so tied? GO BILLS!!! I don't think it's a salary cap issue at all. I think Disco here below has got it right. Wait a second, while all this is good speculation....JW if you're reading this, can you clarify if that's what Nix was implying? You mention Nix didn't handle trade talks - can you expand on knowledge of whether this is uncommon for Nix? You don't have a quote from Nix in the article and I can't find any other AP related story in which Nix implies he didn't want to trade Evans. The only direct information I can find is an interview in which he seems to say he made that decision: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/videonetwork/1108251671001/Buddy-Nix-talks-about-the-Lee-Evans-trade I'm wondering if other factors he doesn't want to publicly state is the fact that Evans asked to be traded. Chris Brown has reported Lee Evans wanted out. Remember, the Bills had just paid him a $1.1 million in bonus money. If this was just a money decision, they could have traded him in the off-season and saved that cash. I seem to recall Nix saying he didn't want any player that didn't want to be a Bill. I can't find any interview with Evans in which he was asked if he wanted to be traded. His comments once the rumors started didn't exactly sound like someone who was looking to stay a Bill. He basically said "Well, we'll see what happens!"Am I understanding correctly that with the new salary cap floor next year, like it or not the Bills are going to have to add ~35m in roster salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 good god. what a disaster. i'd like to see the cheerleaders of this board spin this one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Wait a second, while all this is good speculation....JW if you're reading this, can you clarify if that's what Nix was implying? You mention Nix didn't handle trade talks - can you expand on knowledge of whether this is uncommon for Nix? You don't have a quote from Nix in the article and I can't find any other AP related story in which Nix implies he didn't want to trade Evans. The only direct information I can find is an interview in which he seems to say he made that decision: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/videonetwork/1108251671001/Buddy-Nix-talks-about-the-Lee-Evans-trade I'm wondering if other factors he doesn't want to publicly state is the fact that Evans asked to be traded. Chris Brown has reported Lee Evans wanted out. Remember, the Bills had just paid him a $1.1 million in bonus money. If this was just a money decision, they could have traded him in the off-season and saved that cash. I seem to recall Nix saying he didn't want any player that didn't want to be a Bill. I can't find any interview with Evans in which he was asked if he wanted to be traded. His comments once the rumors started didn't exactly sound like someone who was looking to stay a Bill. He basically said "Well, we'll see what happens!" Am I understanding correctly that with the new salary cap floor next year, like it or not the Bills are going to have to add ~35m in roster salary? WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! --- THERE IS NO FLOOR THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 OK, even if the team is trying to pinch Ralph's pennies, in what bizarro world would a 4th be a preferable return to that? If the third were from the Jets or the Patsies. I have no reason to believe this rumor, or that either of those teams were interested or calling, but it would explain it. The Bills knew Evans was still a very high quality player. It's even possible that they chose the Ravens in some manner to do him a favor, trading him to a team that was a contender, and needs him, with a strong arm QB. The Ravens were actually a perfect fit for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't think it's a salary cap issue at all. I think Disco here below has got it right. I appreciate what you're saying ERB and before reading that article by JW I was steadfast in my belief that Evans wanted to be traded, too. I also appreciate disco's input as well. But regarding the Bills could have traded him in the offseason, I'm afraid they were precluded from doing any such thing due to the lockout. That and it's come to light that the roster bonus is transferable and that teams would have waited until the Bills were on the hook for that before making the trade. Finally, I don't think it's a cap issue. It's entirely a floor issue. And since the Bills don't need to be at the floor until 2013 AND Overdorf handled the Evans trade AND they aren't pursuing OL help aggresively, it seems they are just going into a total savings mode until they are forced to meet the 90% requirement. I want to be wrong but I can no longer ignore the evidence. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! --- THERE IS NO FLOOR THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR --- haha could just be me but a "actually floor starts in 2013" might have sufficed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If the third were from the Jets or the Patsies. I have no reason to believe this rumor, or that either of those teams were interested or calling, but it would explain it. The Bills knew Evans was still a very high quality player. It's even possible that they chose the Ravens in some manner to do him a favor, trading him to a team that was a contender, and needs him, with a strong arm QB. The Ravens were actually a perfect fit for him. That would be a reasonable explanation. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I appreciate what you're saying ERB and before reading that article by JW I was steadfast in my belief that Evans wanted to be traded, too. I also appreciate disco's input as well. But regarding the Bills could have traded him in the offseason, I'm afraid they were precluded from doing any such thing due to the lockout. That and it's come to light that the roster bonus is transferable and that teams would have waited until the Bills were on the hook for that before making the trade. Finally, I don't think it's a cap issue. It's entirely a floor issue. And since the Bills don't need to be at the floor until 2013 AND Overdorf handled the Evans trade AND they aren't pursuing OL help aggresively, it seems they are just going into a total savings mode until they are forced to meet the 90% requirement. I want to be wrong but I can no longer ignore the evidence. GO BILLS!!! There is definitely a floor. The league as a whole has to pay out 99% of the cap in cash this year. The thing is, it doesn't have to be spent until the end of this season, like in Dec-Jan, and not before the season. Some teams will go over it so that allows some other teams to spend less. But the Bills will end up spending a lot more this year when they re-sign Kyle and either Fitz and/or Stevie. But they plan to do that during the season. That's why you see the articles about starting to negotiate now with Kyle, and also why Freddy was getting pissed. Because they will be renegotiating with those three and not him. There is no indication whatsoever that he is mad at those players for getting what I'm sure they deserve. All four have been underpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) After rereading the comments made by Jackson, I realize I've been in his shoes.. being on a team similar to this, I noticed looking around and seeing just new faces...troubled by this...I complained and was hurt! It was then, I forced myself to understand why I was complaining---it's because, I was now a real veteran! The only advice I have is...Chix is still trying to find the building blocks to build this team longterm...In Jackson's defense, he has earned the starting position...but, is he the longterm starter in 2-5 years---probably not! Sadly, the NFL is a business and Jackson's outcome is similar to Evans-- likely being traded away after this season for a 3-5th rounder in 2012 or the 2013 draft... Edited August 23, 2011 by KollegeStudnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey greco Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't think it's a salary cap issue at all. I think Disco here below has got it right. The only source for that rumor is the Bills in-house propagandist. Evans has no reason not to admit to it now, but hasn't. His pre-trade comments should more likely be read as a signal of his class and professionalism. I'm sure he's not unhappy to be gone, but there is 0 evidence that he formally requested a trade. P.T. Barnum would have loved you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Wow. Obviously this is backwards. I know the steelers have a cap whiz, but my understanding is that he doesn't wield such power. So overdorf determined that a 4th rounder was good value? I'm at least hoping he went to Nix and Gailey and asked whether they could live without Evans, as opposed to just issuing an edict. Most teams have some type of cap guy, who's responsibility it is to watch the cap and advise on how much $ a team can afford to spend here and there. However, on most teams, its up to the GM to take that information and use it in the manner they see fit. Many people here have a financial advisor. But ultimately, its up to you what you do with your money. On the Bills, ralphie's bean counters make the decisions. The change to new ownership can't happen soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 good on ya jw, great piece....but i'm thinking exclusives with wilson may be a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 but we still have to play football this year! and why insult the guy? just dump him all of a sudden when he is worth something more. not even good business with this FJ thing, is it? i love the guy so just speculating the evil methods at work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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