AP State of the Bills

[John from Riverside]

good god. what a disaster. i'd like to see the cheerleaders of this board spin this one..

 

 

Well we could answer the negative nancies by saying that this is all CONJECTURE and there could be many different explanations like perhaps Buddy was in agreement with trading Evans but as a team they worked on who and what compensation? There are certain facts here that are still undeniable....Evans was coming off 2 sup par years and does not fit the offense Gailey is trying to deploy and went on the record long before the trade that Lee needed to work on his one trick pony status.....

 

Trying to look at this from all sides though....the thing I am wondering is why in the world would a team that biulds "primarily through the draft" take a 4th round pick over a 3rd round pick....that doesnt make any sense on any planet regarding of WHO you dont like up at one bills drive......that is a real head scratcher IF TRUE

 

No, grasshopper, S.J. will simply be traded away when it comes time for his payday. It's win-win-donkeypunch (Ralph-Stevie-fans)

 

Didnt Lee Evans recieve a extension during his tenure here?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Trying to look at this from all sides though....the thing I am wondering is why in the world would a team that biulds "primarily through the draft" take a 4th round pick over a 3rd round pick....that doesnt make any sense on any planet regarding of WHO you dont like up at one bills drive......that is a real head scratcher IF TRUE

 

The only reason I can think of is that it was someone in our division who offered a third.

 

Perhaps the more skeptical person might think that evil Overdorf and cheap Ralph Wilson would rather pay a 4th rounder next year than a 3rd rounder.

[Kelly the Dog]

Trying to look at this from all sides though....the thing I am wondering is why in the world would a team that biulds "primarily through the draft" take a 4th round pick over a 3rd round pick....that doesnt make any sense on any planet regarding of WHO you dont like up at one bills drive......that is a real head scratcher IF TRUE

If you had to trade Lee Evans to a team, and you were the Bills, would you trade a player of his caliber to The Jets or The Patriots for a #3 or to the Ravens for a #4. To me, it would be a no brainer, and I would trade him to the Ravens for the lesser pick, thinking overall, it would be in the best interest of the team.

 

Then again, I wouldn't have traded Lee Evans, I am only answering your post.

 

If it were a #2 versus a #3, I would have to think harder about it, but would probably still take the lesser pick instead of giving Evans to a team in my division with a need for a solid veteran speed receiver.

[spartacus]

I actually didn't find anything that shocking in Rauch Jr's comments as it was always pretty clear in that era (and maybe all 50 years) that the Bills were a 'hobby' (or toy, as the article says) for Ralph, much like they were for most members of the 'Foolish Club.' He's always treated them in a fantasy football context, rather than a professional business-like manner like the Pat's under Kraft or the Rooney family business of the Steelers.

 

Sad to say, but his legacy will be as an NFL dilettante, despite the HOF jacket...

 

it seems $2.5 million can buy you a Hall of Fame jacket, but not the respect that goes with it

[Bufcomments]

If what Kelly and the balanced Dog says is true we will always be a save money team just to max profits.

 

We will never field a super Bowl team before Ralph passes if we continue to act this way.

 

I ask the question.... if Overdoff pulls the cash strings is Buddy a puppet GM??

 

The more I learn about the inner circle of the Bills the more I become concerned.

[Dr. Fong]

This simply can't be true. Numerous people on this message board have assured me that Ralph is not cheap and is doing everything he can to win. I simply will not believe that the continuous jettisoning of talent and refusal to address the worst offensive line in football is anything more than bad luck. After all I'm sure Evans asked to be traded. What can you do when a guy doesn't want to be here?

Edited August 24, 2011 by Dr. Fong

[John from Riverside]

If you had to trade Lee Evans to a team, and you were the Bills, would you trade a player of his caliber to The Jets or The Patriots for a #3 or to the Ravens for a #4. To me, it would be a no brainer, and I would trade him to the Ravens for the lesser pick, thinking overall, it would be in the best interest of the team.

 

Then again, I wouldn't have traded Lee Evans, I am only answering your post.

 

If it were a #2 versus a #3, I would have to think harder about it, but would probably still take the lesser pick instead of giving Evans to a team in my division with a need for a solid veteran speed receiver.

 

Definatley fits the theory...no doubt about it

[BillnutinHouston]

Wait a second, while all this is good speculation....JW if you're reading this, can you clarify if that's what Nix was implying? You mention Nix didn't handle trade talks - can you expand on knowledge of whether this is uncommon for Nix? You don't have a quote from Nix in the article and I can't find any other AP related story in which Nix implies he didn't want to trade Evans. The only direct information I can find is an interview in which he seems to say he made that decision:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/videonetwork/1108251671001/Buddy-Nix-talks-about-the-Lee-Evans-trade

 

I get that this board is not big on nuance, but hear me out. There's a difference between Overdorf "handling trade talks", and Overdorf actually MAKING THE DECISION to grant Evans a trade. It could well be that Nix made the football decision to trade Evans, then delegated the particulars (where to send him to, and for what compensation) to Overdorf.

 

Not sure everyone needs to jump off the bridge in complete despair just yet.

 

And since the Bills don't need to be at the floor until 2013 AND Overdorf handled the Evans trade AND they aren't pursuing OL help aggresively, it seems they are just going into a total savings mode until they are forced to meet the 90% requirement.

 

How does the Bills' hot pursuit of Clabo fit your theory?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I get that this board is not big on nuance, but hear me out. There's a difference between Overdorf "handling trade talks", and Overdorf actually MAKING THE DECISION to grant Evans a trade. It could well be that Nix made the football decision to trade Evans, then delegated the particulars (where to send him to, and for what compensation) to Overdorf.

 

Not sure everyone needs to jump off the bridge in complete despair just yet.

I don't know if you've read through this whole topic.

 

The author of the AP article, John Wawrow, declined to comment at all about what he wrote regarding Overdorf's role in the trade.

 

Don't you think that John's unwillingness to comment sheds a whole different light on the subject?

 

 

[BillnutinHouston]

Don't you think that John's unwillingness to comment sheds a whole different light on the subject?

 

Actually, no. JW is wise to be circumspect about further comment, regardless of whether or not it might reveal Overdorf as the puppetmaster.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Actually, no. JW is wise to be circumspect about further comment, regardless of whether or not it might reveal Overdorf as the puppetmaster.

Fair enough. I thought his no comment position was a cryptic and tacit confirmation that Nix was overruled on this whole matter.

 

Obviously this is only my own speculation.

 

 

[pimp on da' net]

Yeah, it seems that many Bills fans are still under the delusion that the "football transactions" the team makes (or doesn't make) are actually about football and not about economics. I posted twice in the Evans trade thread that the move was clearly about cost cutting but was drowned out by the standard "Lee wasn't any good" responses. I think you're absolutely correct that the team is being run more as a profit-maximizing business franchise than as a record-maximizing sports team. Very sad for us the long-suffering fans.

 

Very true. I still rem the look on Nix's face while being interviewed at Prior before the charter flight after the annoucement of the Evans trade...very telling. Theres truly no explaination for the trade at that time except for cost cutting and Nix tried to spin it but the expression on his face, told it all. I know their paid well but I really feel bad for he & Chan because they're literally p@ssing in the wind.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Very true. I still rem the look on Nix's face while being interviewed at Prior before the charter flight after the annoucement of the Evans trade...very telling. Theres truly no explaination for the trade at that time except for cost cutting and Nix tried to spin it but the expression on his face, told it all. I know their paid well but I really feel bad for he & Chan because they're literally p@ssing in the wind.

Or he might have had a bad case of gas. Just saying...

[26TrapDraw]

what i wrote is what i wrote. sorry, but staying out of this discussion.

 

jw

Why be sorry about the truth. you told it like it is and if there are some kool aid drinkers that cant accept the fact that the word inept describes this team from top to bottom than I don't believe that they are die hards like some of us

[Sisyphean Bills]

I get that this board is not big on nuance, but hear me out. There's a difference between Overdorf "handling trade talks", and Overdorf actually MAKING THE DECISION to grant Evans a trade. It could well be that Nix made the football decision to trade Evans, then delegated the particulars (where to send him to, and for what compensation) to Overdorf.

 

Not sure everyone needs to jump off the bridge in complete despair just yet.

While I agree with what you're suggesting on the surface, it is also true that Overdorf has made roster moves unilaterally without the knowledge of the GM and coaching staff. He reports to only one person and one might speculate that he has conducted roster trimmings behind the scenes like part of his retirement hinges on the sale price of the franchise.

[Punch]

While I agree with what you're suggesting on the surface, it is also true that Overdorf has made roster moves unilaterally without the knowledge of the GM and coaching staff. He reports to only one person and one might speculate that he has conducted roster trimmings behind the scenes like part of his retirement hinges on the sale price of the franchise.

 

That serves as a cold icy dagger to my already broken heart.

[Delete This Account]

OK. There's nothing to see here. Nothing at all. Sure, the atricle is written with an ever-disappearing professional flair, but there's no real news here. Evans "modest gains" raised him all the way up to 25th in the League. If that means gains, how bad was he prior? We all know this. One-trick pony and not a Channix guy. Anybody here really think the Bills would give him a new contract at the end of his current one? Anybody?? Otherwise, just unsubstantiated rumors of trade bait for one round earlier. Then, for the glory of the doom-sayers, Jackson's 'wonderment' of where all the players have gone since his rookie year.. Kicked to the curb, Freddie. If you tell me you're not surrounded by better players today than you were then, I'd seriously consider starting someone else.. While trying to hide behind "..'the Free Agent loss of Paul Posluszny.." the author alludes to new, better talent. It's what we've demanded, right? Poz may have been a fan fav for some, but seeing Barnett in that role is day & night -to say nothing of LIGHTS OUT!

 

Yes, we're weary of the gates of hell we've been subjected to this century. But this is just the start of Year 2 in the current rebuild and even the most ardent Doomsayers here have to acknowledge we have more NFL talent than in recent years.

 

Spin? Whatever. Nothing to see here..

couldn't resist.

-- didn't realize my flair was ever-disappearing. i don't write in invisible ink.

-- had you read the piece, the offense made modest gains, not Evans.

-- there was no suggestion the Bills would give Lee a new contract, was there? why include that when the Bills are on record in stating they sign players to contracts they believe to be realistic and those which they are confident a player can complete?

 

jw

Edited August 24, 2011 by john wawrow

[JESSEFEFFER]

What does a multimillionaire nonagenarian need with a few more million dollars that he can't spend? The Ralph is cheap angle doesn't work here. Maybe there are other portions of his estate that are underperforming and Littman and Overdorf are looking out for that interest as well?

 

For that matter have we even heard from Ralph lately? Did he get to training camp this year and I missed it? Did he give an interview about the new CBA? Release a statement? He certainly didn't go to the league meetings for the vote. I don't think I've heard a word from him since the draft day Dareus visit. Just wondering. I don't sense he is being active with this team at all.

 

As for the other stuff--here are some plausible explanations. Buddy Nix was not interested in managing the nuts and bolts of running the team. He has Brandon to market the team and Overdorf/Littman to do the contracts and financials and he can rework the roster and scouting department. Buddy and Chan may have agreed to the concept of the trade but I doubt that Buddy wanted to work the phones to find a trading partner. I could also see the Bills being unwilling to trade Lee to certain teams based on their ownership as I suspect Ralph has compiled many hard feelings amongst his fellow owners over the last 50 years. Ralph seems like a scorekeeper to me and, if he was slighted/disrespected by a fellow owner, I could see his attitude being "stick your 3rd round pick, I am not helping out your team." That's the best expalanation I can come up with as to how he could fire the best G.M. he had in 50 years of ownership.

 

Chan said that he had to do a better job of getting Lee more integrated into the passing game. Translation: there were holes in Lee's game that made him a lesser player in Chan's eyes. Can anyone come up with the definitive Lee Evans TD reception where he broke multiple tackles on his way to the endzone? An end-around play that lead to a long TD run? Lee is a speed receiver with above average hands and probably declining speed. He is not now, nor has he ever been, a physical threat to a defender and he is not comfortable working the middle of the field. He was traded for a 4th rounder, some payroll savings, and a roster spot. I don't think what he offered will be missed, as he really hadn't provided much of it the last two years, even though he was mostly healthy. As fans, we were hoping for his resurgence with Fitz but it was never likely to happen. Maybe that's why Lee avoided the Arizona camp.

[FistingBot]

I can't believe how many of you guys are acting like this is new news. Several of us have been posting the way this organization is run for years. Don't expect John Wawrow to elaborate any further on his point. It took courage to say what he did.

 

Of course, many of you will not believe that this franchise has been devious and dysfunctional for many years, and now is even less subtle about cashing in as much as possible right now. I've been an executive in corporations that are getting ready for sale, more than once.

 

At some point the ownership decides that the ultimate goal is the sale of the business (team) because they know they will not be competitive in the future. This may be because new competition has far more resources, or it may just be that the current ownership (of the Bills) has determined that they are not willing to invest the big bucks it will take to have a champion. So for a period of months or years, the business starts tightening its belt by cutting expenses (therefore improving profitability). When the business goes up for sale, interested buyers see a financial profile that looks very healthy, making it look like they can offer more money for the organization.

 

As fans, we have to hope that a buyer wants more than a lucrative investment. We need new ownership that wants his new toy to be a champion and is willing to spend the additional bucks to make it happen. We also need the purchaser to keep the team where it is. The situation is not hopeless, but we need a "white knight."

 

Yessir! I've actually posted this same thing multiple times on this board over the past couple of years. Ralph's financial moves paint a very clear... grim... picture. The two most telling signs to me are the expiration of the stadium lease agreement in 2012 and the lack of a naming rights deal on the stadium. The team will sell to the highest bidder at auction, regardless of where the bidder wants to move the team. And the buyer inherits the balance sheet of the acquired company at the transaction date. Maximizing profit now and clearing impediments (long-term liabilities) to moving the team will ensure the highest possible sale price (very likely $1 billion or more). The ONLY way the team stays is if the highest bidder wants to keep the team here. Likely with markets like L.A. out there???

Edited August 24, 2011 by October 1918

[UConn James]

Yeah, it seems that many Bills fans are still under the delusion that the "football transactions" the team makes (or doesn't make) are actually about football and not about economics. I posted twice in the Evans trade thread that the move was clearly about cost cutting but was drowned out by the standard "Lee wasn't any good" responses. I think you're absolutely correct that the team is being run more as a profit-maximizing business franchise than as a record-maximizing sports team. Very sad for us the long-suffering fans.

 

To be more precise... Ralph Wilson's pinch-the-nickel-'til-the-buffalo-***** economics.

 

It's been said before, by me and by others. This team won't be allowed to get better until Ralph dies and his bean-counters are gone.

 

Whatever happens with this team post-Ralph, I'm at the point where I just want it to happen and to be done with this limbo.

Edited August 24, 2011 by UConn James