Moats

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Wow. Oh he`s showing White the ropes. Takes time away from developing into a OLB. What does Wanstash do? When Barnett comes in ,I guess he`s 3rd string ILB. The man -crush on Kelsay continues.

[Defend Greece]

Maybe they want wannstedt spending more time with him

[Green Lightning]

I haven't heard one sane reason why Moats is at ILB. The guy rushes QB's. He's one of the few we have that can actually do it. So let's put him in a situation to fail. He's not a cover guy, he's a DE at heart and wants to rush the passer and stop the run. What the eff are they they thinking. I'm solid behind Buddy and Chan but every year they seem to want to do one assinine thing that befuddles Bills Nation, like, say sign Kelsay to a big contract. This year, take the most productive pass rusher we have and bury him in a position he will fail at. WTF?

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

The only thing I can figure is this:

 

Coleman has been taking reps with the ones in practice, and Batten has been getting good reviews this year at camp after a good camp last year before his injury. Perhaps they feel both are better than Moats at OLB? Both were on IR when Moats got his shot outside, therefore getting the playing time due to their injuries. With everyone healthy they all move back to their original positions from last year.

 

Moving Moats inside gives Moats a better opportunity to make an impact, I'm guessing Torbor gets cut at some point, and Moats & Sheppard are the 2nd string ILBs and perhaps eventual replacements behind two aging veteran ILBs.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Thoner7]

Guys, this crap happens every year. Kelsay playing OLB in 2010 (and 2011), Jabari Greer, Fred Jackson, Jim Leonard, the list goes on and on. I think its our scouts fault (they scout our team during camp/season and give their reports to the coach staff) We cannot scout in the draft and we cannot scout our own team. We draft corners to play safety, safeties to play LB, WRs to play Safety. We let our good players leave and resign our bad players to ridiculous contracts. We have hit on a few of those but honestly look at how weak our roster has been the last ten years - we cannot evaluate talent in any facet.

 

I think the scouts are chirping in everyones ear that they think he is an ILB and thats where he is. There is no sense behind it (just like the Maybin pick and many others)

[swnybillsfan]

maybe they are trying to put our best players on the feild together, or come up with some solid combinations for depth. moats has proven he can lay some wood but is a bit suspect at this time in coverage. maybe they want to see if he can take the confidence and experience he gained last year and translate that to a position where we do not have the talent or depth and shore it up a bit. either that or our coaching staff had a stroke and just completey screwed the pooch on this one. i'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and i am NOT gonna "cross the moats"! let's just trust that the best players will be on the feild.

[Rockinon]

Moats is being given an opportunity. He is actually doing the defensive play calling with the 2nd string defense(somebody has to do it). It's not like he is being relegated to the practice squad. What's the big deal? Merriman is playing very well and Batten and Coleman are doing well.

[artmalibu]

He might be a good OLB but he might be a great ILB!!! The coaches that made the decisions watched him a little closer than we did.

[Zona]

I haven't heard one sane reason why Moats is at ILB. The guy rushes QB's.

 

In another thread, they list Moats weight as being UP to 259 lbs. Maybe he has slowed down some, and cant get after the QB as quick as he used to... Maybe

Edited August 3, 2011 by Zona

[swnybillsfan]

In another thread, they list Moats weight as being UP to 259 lbs. Maybe he has slowed down some, and cant get after the QB as quick as he used to... Maybe

or maybe with some additional weight on his frame he is going to be someone that can get off blocks and blow up some ball carriers. we need explosive playmakers on our defense, we need guys that hit hard and tackle sure. by all reports, barnett will be playing the inside spot with the emphesis on cover duty. maybe moats is being groomed as a thumper.

[switz1610]

I hope it has to do with the improved play of coleman. That would be a really nice surprise.

[Zona]

or maybe with some additional weight on his frame he is going to be someone that can get off blocks and blow up some ball carriers. we need explosive playmakers on our defense, we need guys that hit hard and tackle sure. by all reports, barnett will be playing the inside spot with the emphesis on cover duty. maybe moats is being groomed as a thumper.

I agree with you.

 

In that other thread, i said the added weight is useful at the ILB position. It takes a bigger guy to play inside, imo.

[Billsnutt]

The only thing I can figure is this:

 

Coleman has been taking reps with the ones in practice, and Batten has been getting good reviews this year at camp after a good camp last year before his injury. Perhaps they feel both are better than Moats at OLB? Both were on IR when Moats got his shot outside, therefore getting the playing time due to their injuries. With everyone healthy they all move back to their original positions from last year.

 

Moving Moats inside gives Moats a better opportunity to make an impact, I'm guessing Torbor gets cut at some point, and Moats & Sheppard are the 2nd string ILBs and perhaps eventual replacements behind two aging veteran ILBs.

if it works out this way and Coleman and Batten are doing well outside id rather keep them there then have to cut 1 or both to put Moats back on the outside. i think Moats is gonna be a great player wherever he is because he has the talent but even more he has the great work ethic to not stop working till hes the best. now if after a 3 or 4 games Coleman or Batten dont show the same strides Moats did last season you put Moats back outside and let him kick kelsay off the feild

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I haven't heard one sane reason why Moats is at ILB. The guy rushes QB's. He's one of the few we have that can actually do it. So let's put him in a situation to fail. He's not a cover guy, he's a DE at heart and wants to rush the passer and stop the run. What the eff are they they thinking. I'm solid behind Buddy and Chan but every year they seem to want to do one assinine thing that befuddles Bills Nation, like, say sign Kelsay to a big contract. This year, take the most productive pass rusher we have and bury him in a position he will fail at. WTF?

 

I hadn't heard a sane explanation until Sal last night. Mentioned that this defense we run is a hybrid and they like guys that give them scheme diversity. Sal thought that moving Moats to ILB was a training camp move to give him reps there, so they can put him almost anywhere along the 4 LB spots (3 in the 4-3 alignment).

 

At least, that's what I hope they're doing.

 

In another thread, they list Moats weight as being UP to 259 lbs. Maybe he has slowed down some, and cant get after the QB as quick as he used to... Maybe

 

And Andra Davis came in at 267. Holy crap that's big.

[3rdand12]

i am sure now that they are broadening skill sets and creating some more versatility for Moats. And others. We suffered quite a few injuries at the lb positions last year and it showed.

Davis is 267? holy crap that is Huge at the position! I gotta go back and look at some practice camp pictures to see where he put it on. What did he weigh in at the beginning of last season?

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

What did he weigh in at the beginning of last season?

 

Don't know. Thought he was around 255ish. That's what it said on the training camp list. Maybe the Bills have a high reading scale with Dareus at 343 and Jasper at 394.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster.html

[rpcolosi]

it's likely they think moats is one of their smartest players and can lead a defense from the ILB position. It is possible to rush the QB from there, especially if he has some coverage skills (which this team is lacking). Once maybin is gone, it will open up more room at OLB. But they have Coleman (who can DEFINNITELY rush the qb, look at college career) and Batten (can def rush the qb) on the outside right now. As much as they won't admit it, it's a numbers game. They want Moats on the field, but they obviously like kelsay more right now at OLB and think Coleman has more upside potential (bonus points if you get that refernece)

[3rdand12]

Maybe the Bills have a high reading scale with Dareus at 343 and Jasper at 394.

Yep sound like some tipped the scale too far! But is does not not sound like anyone will be pushing us upfield in the middle any more like last year

Not sure abouts Moats coverage ability. I think that is what the new guy is best at.

Moats may be learning to make calls and i bet he is learning how to read well enough to know what should be called and why.

The more i consider this, is it possible we are pretty strong at LB?

We cannot keep Maybin, poor kid. But we might have some skills here beyond our veterans.

Edited August 3, 2011 by 3rdand12

[cåblelady]

I hadn't heard a sane explanation until Sal last night. Mentioned that this defense we run is a hybrid and they like guys that give them scheme diversity. Sal thought that moving Moats to ILB was a training camp move to give him reps there, so they can put him almost anywhere along the 4 LB spots (3 in the 4-3 alignment)

 

Exactly! That was a good show wasn't it!

[NewEra]

Guys, this crap happens every year. Kelsay playing OLB in 2010 (and 2011), Jabari Greer, Fred Jackson, Jim Leonard, the list goes on and on. I think its our scouts fault (they scout our team during camp/season and give their reports to the coach staff) We cannot scout in the draft and we cannot scout our own team. We draft corners to play safety, safeties to play LB, WRs to play Safety. We let our good players leave and resign our bad players to ridiculous contracts. We have hit on a few of those but honestly look at how weak our roster has been the last ten years - we cannot evaluate talent in any facet.

 

I think the scouts are chirping in everyones ear that they think he is an ILB and thats where he is. There is no sense behind it (just like the Maybin pick and many others)

What happens with Greer, Jackson and Leonard? Did we move Jackson to Wr? Greer to safety! Leonard to lb? I don't get the correlation. It's the first week of camp. 2 of our ilb aren't playing (shepp and barnett) ATM. Kelsey is a starting OLB for this team. Whether we like it or not, he is. They obv don't like batten or Coleman at ilb, so they are giving moats another look. This doesn't mean he's going to be an ilb forever, but for the moment or until they realize he can't play it, if he can't play it. I don't like the move either and I hate Kelsey, but they know more than we do.

 

The sky is falling!!!

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Guys, this crap happens every year. Kelsay playing OLB in 2010 (and 2011), Jabari Greer, Fred Jackson, Jim Leonard, the list goes on and on. I think its our scouts fault (they scout our team during camp/season and give their reports to the coach staff) We cannot scout in the draft and we cannot scout our own team. We draft corners to play safety, safeties to play LB, WRs to play Safety. We let our good players leave and resign our bad players to ridiculous contracts. We have hit on a few of those but honestly look at how weak our roster has been the last ten years - we cannot evaluate talent in any facet.

 

I think the scouts are chirping in everyones ear that they think he is an ILB and thats where he is. There is no sense behind it (just like the Maybin pick and many others)

Dead on. Everybody that watches the Bills here agree. Show me the wins and I`ll shut up. Same old same old every year. This year is NO different. Enough with the smoke and mirrors act. Show me the wins.

[shoretalk]

In another thread, they list Moats weight as being UP to 259 lbs. Maybe he has slowed down some, and cant get after the QB as quick as he used to... Maybe

Perhaps ... just perhaps... the coaching staff saw his potential as a leader on the field and are putting him in a position to make D calls while also not making him as vulnerable on pass coverage.

 

Wanns knows what he is doing so I will wait this one out but I also agree that Batten and Coleman looked better last preseason and we also have Merriman.

 

Will be an interesting preseason and when the cuts come this summer there will be some surprises I am sure.

[Thud]

Guys, this crap happens every year. Kelsay playing OLB in 2010 (and 2011), Jabari Greer, Fred Jackson, Jim Leonard, the list goes on and on. I think its our scouts fault (they scout our team during camp/season and give their reports to the coach staff) We cannot scout in the draft and we cannot scout our own team. We draft corners to play safety, safeties to play LB, WRs to play Safety. We let our good players leave and resign our bad players to ridiculous contracts. We have hit on a few of those but honestly look at how weak our roster has been the last ten years - we cannot evaluate talent in any facet.

 

 

Uhhhhhh and thoner remains a fan why?????? This does get old and quite boring. Oh wait typical OBD blather

 

I think the scouts are chirping in everyones ear that they think he is an ILB and thats where he is. There is no sense behind it (just like the Maybin pick and many others)

[sllib olaffub]

I remember hearing as much about Batten and Coleman last offseason after the draft as Moats. All three of those guys looked to have similar potential - in that they were each later to non drafted guys who showed some promise physically, but who had to prove it. However, Batten got hurt early and when Coleman got hurt he was performing just as well as Moats was. So, maybe the coaching staff, seeing as Moats is going to be behind Merriman regardless in the lineup, and they already know that Moats is capable as an OLB in a pinch, maybe their giving Batten and Coleman a chance to prove themselves at positions that are more to their natural capabilities, as opposed to Moats, who physically - according to Gailey - is more suited to ILB. If he doesn't work at ILB, I doubt he gets anything but moved back to OLB, because if we cut him, another team would snap him up in a minute.

Edited August 4, 2011 by sllib olaffub

[UpperDeck]

It could be as simple as giving him some time there to get acclimated as insurance in case there are injuries to our starting ILBs after he moves back to OLB. Although, with the shortened camp there probably isn't the luxury to waste time doing that. Or just maybe the coaches think the best way to win in our division is to put pressure on the QB from up the middle to get in their face as quickly as possible.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The only thing I can figure is this:

 

Coleman has been taking reps with the ones in practice, and Batten has been getting good reviews this year at camp after a good camp last year before his injury. Perhaps they feel both are better than Moats at OLB? Both were on IR when Moats got his shot outside, therefore getting the playing time due to their injuries. With everyone healthy they all move back to their original positions from last year.

 

Moving Moats inside gives Moats a better opportunity to make an impact, I'm guessing Torbor gets cut at some point, and Moats & Sheppard are the 2nd string ILBs and perhaps eventual replacements behind two aging veteran ILBs.

I think this is the best explanation.

 

BTW, the Bills could have drafted more pass rushers this year (Jabbal Sheard, Brooks Reed) but chose not to. I think it's clear that they feel good about their pass rush potential (whether justified or not).

 

Merriman appears to be regaining his health and football skills and Kelsay, although he doesn't get many sacks, seems to get a lot of pressures… he just can't close the deal. Coleman led the SEC in sacks and tackles for loss in his senior season, so the Bills are left picking between Batten and Moats for likely one outside spot.

 

Then there's the loss of Poz and the hybrid defense/scheme diversity aspect and it's understandable, at least to me, why Moats is getting reps on the inside.

 

Dead on. Everybody that watches the Bills here agree. Show me the wins and I`ll shut up. Same old same old every year. This year is NO different. Enough with the smoke and mirrors act. Show me the wins.

No. Not everybody that watches the Bills here agree.

 

You think that a lousy, uninsightful, lowbrow, and ignorant analysis of the Bills is justified because the team has been bad? Wow. You live in a simple world. Good for you.

 

Do everyone a favor and speak only for yourself. Please.

Edited August 4, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The only thing I can figure is this:

 

Coleman has been taking reps with the ones in practice, and Batten has been getting good reviews this year at camp after a good camp last year before his injury. Perhaps they feel both are better than Moats at OLB? Both were on IR when Moats got his shot outside, therefore getting the playing time due to their injuries. With everyone healthy they all move back to their original positions from last year.

 

Moving Moats inside gives Moats a better opportunity to make an impact, I'm guessing Torbor gets cut at some point, and Moats & Sheppard are the 2nd string ILBs and perhaps eventual replacements behind two aging veteran ILBs.

 

I swear Ghost you are always reading my mind. Plus he can still rush the passer from the inside and putting him there gives us chance to put our best guys on the field.

 

In another thread, they list Moats weight as being UP to 259 lbs. Maybe he has slowed down some, and cant get after the QB as quick as he used to... Maybe

Probably not, most rushers are 260 and up.

[CSBill]

I hadn't heard a sane explanation until Sal last night. Mentioned that this defense we run is a hybrid and they like guys that give them scheme diversity. Sal thought that moving Moats to ILB was a training camp move to give him reps there, so they can put him almost anywhere along the 4 LB spots (3 in the 4-3 alignment).

 

At least, that's what I hope they're doing.

 

 

 

And Andra Davis came in at 267. Holy crap that's big.

 

can Davis lend some of that to Maybin? But I like the idea of getting best players out there, and if that means shifting Moats to get him more involved, go for it.

[K Gun Special]

So much analysis of this guy who wont even be a starter this year. He had 30 tackles last year and was only on the field because of injuries. I think if he didnt knock out Favre we wouldnt be having these threads as if he's the next ray lewis.

[bowery4]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but Wanny is the inside LB coach, I am kind of thinking maybe they are trying to get Moats some time under him as an inside guy. It makes sense to have have him inside if you think Batten and Coleman are going to develop. Coleman and Moats showed some stuff last year. I wonder what they are planning with Kelsy this year more than Moats, honestly. He really had no business being OLB in our 3/4 sets last year and looked much, much better when they shifted the scheme back to 4/3.

[NewEra]

I think this is the best explanation.

 

BTW, the Bills could have drafted more pass rushers this year (Jabbal Sheard, Brooks Reed) but chose not to. I think it's clear that they feel good about their pass rush potential (whether justified or not).

 

Merriman appears to be regaining his health and football skills and Kelsay, although he doesn't get many sacks, seems to get a lot of pressures… he just can't close the deal. Coleman led the SEC in sacks and tackles for loss in his senior season, so the Bills are left picking between Batten and Moats for likely one outside spot.

 

Then there's the loss of Poz and the hybrid defense/scheme diversity aspect and it's understandable, at least to me, why Moats is getting reps on the inside.

 

 

No. Not everybody that watches the Bills here agree.

 

You think that a lousy, uninsightful, lowbrow, and ignorant analysis of the Bills is justified because the team has been bad? Wow. You live in a simple world. Good for you.

 

Do everyone a favor and speak only for yourself. Please.

[Homey D. Clown]

I like Moats, I really do, but his height and playing weight was a factor at OLB, and just because Bills nation has a man crush on him for making a few noteworthy plays doesn't make him a game changer yet. Quite simply he was probably the best LB on the team a year ago, but that's simply not the case this year with players like Merriman showing strong signs of recovery from injury.

 

There's plenty to like about the guy, and it just might make sense that he can do more damage as an ILB in the 3-4 set, and have strong play calling skills as the defensive signal caller playing MLB in the 4-3 set.

 

I see this as a good thing, when a guy is talented, coaches will move you around a bit.

[Defend Greece]

What is with all the size comments?

Kyle was to small for nt, Wes welker, Wayne chrebet, London Fletcher, james Harrison, warrick Dunn, Doug flutie, drew brees, I can go on forever.

The only "size" that matters is the heart

Edited August 4, 2011 by Defend Greece

[flomoe]

It could be as simple as giving him some time there to get acclimated as insurance in case there are injuries to our starting ILBs after he moves back to OLB. Although, with the shortened camp there probably isn't the luxury to waste time doing that. Or just maybe the coaches think the best way to win in our division is to put pressure on the QB from up the middle to get in their face as quickly as possible.

 

 

Just ask Marcia Brady in New England how he/she likes pressure up the middle. That is how the Giants beat them and that is how the good defenses in the league become the good defenses. They get pressure up the middle, something the Bills haven't consistently had for a long time now. Poz was always getting swallowed up whenever he would rush and when running a 3-4, you need to get pressure from someone up the middle other than your nose tackle.

[rpcolosi]

1.) Can someone at camp report update if he is still playing at ILB?

 

2.) Why did gailey say " at 6ft he isn't protypical OLB" when in fact he is 6'2 260??

 

3.) How does he look size wise compared to Meriman? How about to Maybin?

 

I love gailey and nix, and I realize they were in a bind at ILB and also that Moats probably can't cover much in the flat as an OLB, but c'mon. This rationale sounds flawed, unless they really see him as a Ray Lewis type on the inside. I just don't see that kind of lateral speed in him. Cut Maybin, move Moats back to OLB along with Coleman and put Batten back inside.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I haven't heard one sane reason why Moats is at ILB. The guy rushes QB's. He's one of the few we have that can actually do it. So let's put him in a situation to fail. He's not a cover guy, he's a DE at heart and wants to rush the passer and stop the run. What the eff are they they thinking. I'm solid behind Buddy and Chan but every year they seem to want to do one assinine thing that befuddles Bills Nation, like, say sign Kelsay to a big contract. This year, take the most productive pass rusher we have and bury him in a position he will fail at. WTF?

 

OK, I look at a team whose LB I like - Stillers. Their LB coach is on record saying, needs about 3 years for his LB to really learn a single, consistent system and get to "where I start to trust them".

 

So why are we all so determined that Moats could never be an ILB, because he didn't look stellar as an ILB his rookie year? He's a smart guy, he's a hardworking guy, what about the possibility he just needs a little more time to understand the role and build instinct?

 

On the other hand, the only way the Kelsay contract (or Kelsay at LB) makes sense to me is the reason floated here: he's got dirt on someone.

[mrags]

Like many have said here already, I think the reason why Moats is playing ILB comes down to a few reasons:

1. We were short at ILB

2. We wanted to get Moats another shot at it

3. We wanted to see if Moats could call the plays

4. We wanted to see if Batten, Coleman, and Kelsey got better at OLB after a year and injuries

5. We wanted to see if we could get pressure on the QB from all the LB positions, inside and out

6. And most importantly, the coaching staff feels that Moats is a starting caliber player and wants to make sure we get all our good LBs on the field at once.

 

I'd rather have Moats blowing up QBs like last year from the OLB spot but at this point he's getting reps at both positions. We already know what he can do at OLB so why not see if anyone else can play that spot and give him another shot at ILB and a shot to run this defense.

Edited August 5, 2011 by mrags

[3rdand12]

how many ilb's does a three four team dress on Sundays?

I would guess that we would subtract DT's and add ILB's to the roster?

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

It’s been mentioned before, but this time Bills head coach Chan Gailey spelled out exactly why they moved Arthur Moats to inside linebacker for the 2011 season.

 

“The development we felt of (Danny) Batten and (Antonio) Coleman and we also got Shawne Merriman,” said Gailey. ”And you look at the prototypical outside backers and there are not a lot of six footers out there and we felt like his quickness and speed allowed him to be a better inside backer than outside backer.”

 

Moats is only 6’0″ tall and most OLBs in a 3-4 scheme are at least 6’3″. Having a taller frame with longer arms generally makes an OLB a better pass rusher in a 3-4 scheme, which is why scouts sometimes weigh height heavily for that position.

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/08/08/the-reason-moats-is-now-an-ilb/

 

No mention of Maybin.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Cash]

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/08/08/the-reason-moats-is-now-an-ilb/

 

No mention of Maybin.

 

Gailey's reasoning is very sound at draft time, but not so hot when you consider that Moats has played well at OLB and poorly at ILB in actual NFL games. Also, I thought that you wanted the height and long arms to set the edge in the run game, not for pass rushing? There's a good number of short pass rushers who use their low center of gravity to dip under those 6'5"+ OTs. Freeney, Mathis, & Dumervil immediately come to mind.