Albany,n.y. Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I don't get this point of drafting a QB for depth. Fitz isn't that old and he hasn't started a lot of game in his career. But injuries happen so you need a backup BUT aren't there a lot of solid QB's you could sign in free agency. No, there are not. Veteran backups who are solid sign with teams for only 1 of 3 reasons: 1)They think they can beat out the current starter 2)They are willing to be a backup on a Super Bowl contender 3)The team will pay them more than any other team. So, ask yourself which of those 3 possibilities applies to the Bills' available backup job and the answer is none of the above. Name one available solid QB who would want to come here to be Fitzpatrick's backup QB. That's why we have to draft a QB in the 1st 3 rounds and hope he develops into something. Also, assuming that the guy we draft this year doesn't wow the team, expect to see another QB drafted early next year too-especially since 2011 is the final year of Fitzpatrick's contract & unless he really lights it up & has a much higher win%, he's not going to get starter $ from the Bills to lock him up for the 3-6 year deal he'll be in line for in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuklz2594 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 trent dilfer won a super bowl and is/was far from elite. just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) trent dilfer won a super bowl and is/was far from elite. just saying. R u serious? Yea, and I'm sure the Ravens defense had nothing to do with that. Trent was just asked not to turn the ball over. He was never asked to win the game. You have no argument Edited March 21, 2011 by DreReed83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 R u serious? Yea, and I'm sure the Ravens defense had nothing to do with that. Trent was just asked not to turn the ball over. He was never asked to win the game. You have no argument That's his point, if the rest of your team is good enough you don't need a Peyton Manning level QB to win the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 R u serious? Yea, and I'm sure the Ravens defense had nothing to do with that. Trent was just asked not to turn the ball over. He was never asked to win the game. You have no argument That's a little bit of bull **** right there. Trent Dilfer isn't a flashy precision guy, but he did come through with some game winners that year. He also kept opposing defenses honest with the deep ball to keep the run game flowing. That vaunted D wasn't winning **** with Tony Banks under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 trent dilfer won a super bowl and is/was far from elite. just saying. Oh God not this argument again... Let just say the chances of the Bills building a Defense like the 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs is slim and none...And Slim done left Town... You want a FAR better chance at winning a SB? Get and elite QB...Going back to Aikman there has been Young, Elway, Favre, Warner, Brady, Big Ben, the Mannings, Brees and now Rogers...Basically 16 of the last 19 SB's have been Won by a Team with an Elite QB (leaving Eli off the list of elites)...So there you go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 A lot of mock drafts by draft experts and a lot of posters here seem to think that the Bills need to pick a QB in the first 2-3 rounds. I don't get this obsession. Didn't Fitz just have a pretty good season in terrible circumstances? The guy had no ground game, inconsistent O-line play (A very bad right side of the line), no tightend to throw to, and a defense that consitantly put him in situations where he had to be one dimensional. The team has too many holes to waste a pick on a QB especially when there isn't really a franchise QB at pick 3. Newton screams bust and Gabbert to me isn't that much better than Fitz could be. Why is there this consistent feeling to use top 3 picks on project QB's like Mallet, Ponder, and Locker and a good amount of posters feel that Newton or Gabbert should be the pick at 3? Are there more people who think that Fitz should be given a chance in 2011? I agree 100% and disagree a little as well. The fact is, Fitz did t have that great a year if you look at his numbers. However The 13 games that he played, at the avg he had per game he was looking at close to 4,000 yards and 30tds over 16 games. Even the numbers (as average as they were) he had were better than anything we've had since Jim Kelly (exception 1 season under Bledsoe). Fitz is a pretty good QB and IMO, he could be the franchise guy we've been looking for since Kelly left. He even reminds me a little bit of Kelly (I'm talking about his rough and rugged attitude and fearless play along with his down to earth attitude) he is not looking to be a superstar, but he seems to like it in Buffalo, his teamates seem to like him, and he's silently a good QB. The fact is, the team really rallied around Jin last season and embrassed hi. As thier leader and it seemed it happened almost immediately after Cinco was cut (sounds like it had been a locker room conversation for a while) the part I disagree with you about is this... IF the coaching staff doesn't think Fitz is thier guy, OR they want to take thier chance at the opportunity ity to draft pretty much any QB off the board in the draft and make home thier guy I'm all for it. I disagree with many on the board about Newton since I like jon at the #3 pick. BUT, that is only if the coaching staff thinks this guy could be the next big QB star in this league. Newton has all the talent in the world, it's gonna depend on his attitude and drive to sucres at the next level. I out my faith in Buddy and Nix and hope they do what they think is the right thing for the future of this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 That's his point, if the rest of your team is good enough you don't need a Peyton Manning level QB to win the Super Bowl. I understand his point. I wasn't the one who made the original argument, but I think when building super bowl team, one thing is logical. Adding a franchise QB is the #1 priority. Yes defense helps wins championships. So does a QB. When discussing Trent dilfers ravens team that won the SB, you must take into account that it was one of the top 5 defenses EVER. Some would argue it's the best. When building a team, it's much easier to get a franchise QB, compared to assembling a top 5 defense ever. If you're gonna try and win a SB with Ryan Fitzpatrick you're gonna need an all time top 5 defense. Like I've been saying all along, if our front office thinks that newton or gabbert has what it takes to develop into a franchise QB, it's a no brainer. A great QB > a great defensive player 95/100 times. Will they become great? You're guess is as good as mine. But imo, there's no question that having a great QB should be a buildingt eams #1 priority. Seriously? Did you just say SJ is a #3 WR? Really? Classic... Now don't get me wrong...I'm not saying Stevie is an unquestioned #1 WR...But he's MOST DEFINITELY a #2...As is Lee...Quit trying to make Fitz out to be some kind of Superman...There were Players on Offense stepping up all over the Field for him last season...Steve Johnson being first among them...Fitz was sacked less than twice per Game behind that patchwork O-Line...Those UFA WR's led by David Nelson and Donald Jones showed plenty of promise for Rookies...When was the last time the Bills had 3 (including Marques Easley) ROOKIE WR's with this much upside? NO question TE is a HUGE Need in Buffalo...But good grief...Exaggerate much? Fitz is what he is and he'll be fine as the Starter in 2011...But IF The Bills don't do something right now to solidify the future at QB we'll be looking at another decade of futility...Assuming they don't finish bad enough to win the Luck sweepstakes of coarse...I fully expect The Bills to Draft a QB somewhere in the first 3 Rounds of the 2011 Draft and they would be VERY wise to do so... If anyone believes Gailey and Nix when they say they know Fitz can get us to the Playoffs I've got some PRIME Real Estate for sale in Florida they should take a look at...Have we really forgotten what good Football looks like THAT much? Who exactly was projecting Rivers to be a 3rd Round Pick? Because whoever it was I hope they are no longer covering the NFL Draft...I don't remember anything like that whatsoever... I don't remember if it was in the middle of the cfball season or after the season, but I also remember rivers being slotted as a 2nd or 3rd Rd pick Every team had Tom Brady slotted as a 7th round pick and a lot of those people are still involved in a scouting the draft. Same premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I agree 100% and disagree a little as well. The fact is, Fitz did t have that great a year if you look at his numbers. However The 13 games that he played, at the avg he had per game he was looking at close to 4,000 yards and 30tds over 16 games. Even the numbers (as average as they were) he had were better than anything we've had since Jim Kelly (exception 1 season under Bledsoe). Fitz is a pretty good QB and IMO, he could be the franchise guy we've been looking for since Kelly left. He even reminds me a little bit of Kelly (I'm talking about his rough and rugged attitude and fearless play along with his down to earth attitude) he is not looking to be a superstar, but he seems to like it in Buffalo, his teamates seem to like him, and he's silently a good QB. The fact is, the team really rallied around Jin last season and embrassed hi. As thier leader and it seemed it happened almost immediately after Cinco was cut (sounds like it had been a locker room conversation for a while) the part I disagree with you about is this... IF the coaching staff doesn't think Fitz is thier guy, OR they want to take thier chance at the opportunity ity to draft pretty much any QB off the board in the draft and make home thier guy I'm all for it. I disagree with many on the board about Newton since I like jon at the #3 pick. BUT, that is only if the coaching staff thinks this guy could be the next big QB star in this league. Newton has all the talent in the world, it's gonna depend on his attitude and drive to sucres at the next level. I out my faith in Buddy and Nix and hope they do what they think is the right thing for the future of this franchise. I will throw my support out there for Fitz as well.....people want to cray about not having a "franchise" QB so much on this board - I wonder how Jim would have looked without Wil Wolford, House Ballard, Jim Richter, Kent Hull, etc etc etc - He nearly ALWAYS had a stud TE.....something that seems to get missed every year for the bills - Andre Reed, Bill Brooks, Don Beebe? And STEVE TASKER for that fricken matter - Then there was that Thurman Thomas guy who got backed up by a gamed named Davis that could have started for a lot of teams HOW GOOD WOULD FITZ HAVE LOOKED HAD HE HAD THESE PLAYERS AROUND HIM.....this doesnt take into affect that we had a defense with some pretty darn good players that go the ball to the offense A LOT Now lets take a look at what Fitz had to work with - A left tackle coming off a severe injury - A center coming off a severe injury - Flux at right guard and right tackle ALL YEAR - No quality tight end - Stevie Johnson emerged but is young.....shoot for that matter everyone in the receiving core was young except Evans - A Defense that couldn't get itself off the field.....couldn't create turnovers Someone to replace Fitz immediately is NOT needed.....someone to groom for down the road? Yeah sure....in a draft where you are picking at the top of every round that is a good idea......Mallett, Ponder, Dalton, even Locker would be good choices as a QB that is going to hold a clip board for a while while....... Trade down a couple of spots if you can and pick up an additional 2nd......get a stud defensive player in the first.....a QB in the second and another stud defensive player in the second....if Carimi somehow falls.....then he is one of the 2nd round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I agree 100% and disagree a little as well. 90% of baseball if half mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I Agree !! The only way they should draft a QB this year is if they first - take care of the obvious needs of the team & then & only then if say Locker , Mallet or some one like Dalton or others would fall to us in a much later pick say the 6th like Brady did then pick them up for little to no money in comparison and work with them & see what you got . That way the risk is much less & the reward can be much greater !!! GO BILLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Agreed, defense is a must. I think the first four picks should be OLB, ILB, DT, and OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Oh God not this argument again... Let just say the chances of the Bills building a Defense like the 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs is slim and none...And Slim done left Town... You want a FAR better chance at winning a SB? Get and elite QB...Going back to Aikman there has been Young, Elway, Favre, Warner, Brady, Big Ben, the Mannings, Brees and now Rogers...Basically 16 of the last 19 SB's have been Won by a Team with an Elite QB (leaving Eli off the list of elites)...So there you go... I agree with the facts you lay out being a key to understanding this, but these facts point away from looking to the draft for your franchise QB. Specifically< Young- Drafted by TB and run out of town to SF. Elway- Drafted by Indy but he also left town to the Broncs by trade Favre- Drafted by TB and run out of town Warner- FA acquisition recruited from his previous job as a boxboy at a Walmart Brady- Drafted yep but in the 6th round. Big Ben- Finally a QB drafted in the first who paid off immediately for the team which drafted him Mannings- Eli acquired through a trade, Peyton finally pays off for the team which drafted him Brees- acquired as an FA Rogers- a draft pick does deliver an SB win but again on a timeline a bit too long for the Bills to want to follow. The examples you provide speak clearly to me that the draft is pretty far from the only way to get a franchise QB. In fact when one totals of the various methods of relying on the draft to get your franchise QB is a pretty risky propostion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The point of drafting a QB now is to develop the young QB BEHIND Fitz. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Fitz's contract is up after this season. You really wanna give a career back up QB, a franchise QB type money? Chan's gained my trust that he can mentor pretty much any QB that he sees fit. If not, he doesn't beat around the bush like Jauron did. You draft a QB now, sit him for a year or 2, and then plug him into the starting lineup. I keep saying this until I'm blue in the face but here goes again: Yes, the Bills and about twenty five other teams would love to have a "franchise QB." Now, where exactly is this QB supposed to come from? Because to me, there isn't one in this draft who is worthy of the #3 pick. And if there isn't one worthy of that pick, and the team has other, more pressing needs, why in the name of Ralph wouldn't you grab one of those players instead of wasting time rubbing a magic lamp and hoping Newton, Gabbert, Mallet, etc. will somehow, someway, through abracadabra become our salvation. In the meantime, Nix has said that the Bills will add a QB. My choice, if he is available in the mid rounds, is Ponder. I'm also intrigued with Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) - Fitz ranked 22nd in QB rating. - Fitz ranked 22nd in the league in passing yards. - Fitz ranked 27th in completion percentage. - Fitz ranked 21st in yards per attempt. - Fitz ranked 16h in passing yards per game. - Fitz ranked 9th in interceptions. In sum, Fitz was mostly a below average QB while being in the top 10 in the league in pass attempts per game. That's not having a good season. That's being easily impressed because of all the crap we've had at QB over the years. Also, who in the hell is talking about using our 3rd overall pick on Mallett, Ponder, or Locker? You also forgot to mention: - Fitz ranked 8th in TD/game. You also forgot to mention that he did not have an offense and off season devoted to him as the starter because Trent Edwards the charlatan continued to fool yet another coaching staff. Truthfully I believe Ralph was behind the whole 5 years of futility with Edwards. Imagine if we dumped that completely useless pile of crap and got those picks from the Seahawks in a trade. As a long time Cpt Checkdown basher it sickens me to think. Edited March 21, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 That's his point, if the rest of your team is good enough you don't need a Peyton Manning level QB to win the Super Bowl. Yes. Because our defense is so solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yes. Because our defense is so solid. Moats is a superstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I Agree !! The only way they should draft a QB this year is if they first - take care of the obvious needs of the team & then & only then if say Locker , Mallet or some one like Dalton or others would fall to us in a much later pick say the 6th like Brady did then pick them up for little to no money in comparison and work with them & see what you got . That way the risk is much less & the reward can be much greater !!! GO BILLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Uh NOOOO......no taking QB's that the team will not invest the time in to see whether or not they might be good..... If we are going to take a QB.....2nd round....or 3rd at the latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I could easily make the case that Fitzpatrick had a similar year to that of Eli Manning and a better one than Jay Cutler. Some consider those guys to be franchise types. They are certainly paid that way. It's tough to know how much better he can be since my crystal ball is not working lately, but players do get better as they spend time in an offensive system along with their teammates. There are many examples of QBs whose careers took off after 30 to 50 starts and 4 or 5 years in the league. I am willing to wait and see if Fitzpatrick can have that kind of career evolution. He has the leadership skills, toughness, maturity, and smarts to do the job. He just has to make the offense more productive. That all that being said, I do think that he had a good enough season to be a legitimate plan A but that having a realistic plan B would also be prudent. The fact that Brohm was not tendered tells me the Bills may be thinking that way but this does not equate to a top of the draft pick. Those guys have to play before they earn the job because they "need to develop" and the franchise has to "find out about them." The QB's at the top of the 1st round become plan A from day one and it more often leads to 3 years of futile, and often ugly, football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I wonder why anyone things that drafting a QB in this draft is a better idea then getting Kevin Kolb. I am not a huge believer in Kolb but I put more faith in him then I do any QB coming out. You would have him for a 1st, maybe even 2nd, and he is NFL ready unlike the 2011 QB's. If I was Cinci or Seattle I would be clawing to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts