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Bob Sanders


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John Oehser has an interesting perspective on Sanders. Oehser just finished a long stretch covering the Colts and is now working for the Jaguars’ website. Here's a good summary from him:

 

“First off, forget fit or scheme. When healthy, he ‘fits’ any scheme because he truly is a special talent. It's hard to say he would have been the best safety of the last decade had he been healthy, because Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed are also special players who change games and seasons -- a rarity on defense outside the end position. But from 2005-07, Sanders made more game-changing, momentum-altering plays than any non-pass rusher I've covered. Dwight Freeney and Tony Brackens are the only other defensive players I've covered who compared in terms of consistently altering games, and each played end. When healthy early in his career, Sanders truly altered games and improved defenses. Because he has played so little, it's easy to forget how good he was, but for a brief period, he was a combination of speed and power few at his position have matched. On one level, he's absolutely worth pursuing, because if signed for a reasonable, low-risk price, you're talking about bringing in a player who can improve your team drastically, immediately. Still, he has played nine games in the past three seasons and you've got to believe if the Colts believed that trend would change, they would have re-signed him."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/37608/on-the-jaguars-courting-bob-sanders

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That's the answer to the Sanders love question. People didn't just hear of him. He was freakin great......I'd love to get him. Not for huge money, but I would definitely love to take a chance on him. Seems to me that he's had all kinds of different injuries, as opposed to say a torn Achilles that will never heal.

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Sanders is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Whitner. Sanders makes game-changing plays whenever he is on the field; unfortunately, that isn't very often. Whitner is extremely durable but has made a grand total of ZERO game-changing plays over his career.

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Sanders is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Whitner. Sanders makes game-changing plays whenever he is on the field; unfortunately, that isn't very often. Whitner is extremely durable but has made a grand total of ZERO game-changing plays over his career.

 

Since 2006, what Bills players have made any game-changing plays?

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shun me for this opinion but I have a feeling that wont happen but Bob is from Erie... he has been living there for the past 2 years (not positive on that) ... always been a home guy ... buffalo is 90 minutes at most to OP... IMHO he is going to get signed with all incentives... no risk high reward any way you look at it... No one is looking to give sanders a pay day it's not going to happen ... buddy and co show him some love and I see it as a perfect fit

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The best part about all of this is that the majority of the posters are against signing a once great, injury prone, fairly young player cut from a much better team (Sanders), yet are all for signing a once great, injury prone fairly young player cut from another much better team (Merriman).

 

Go figure.

 

Strictly because we dont have any proven quality players at that position. If we had the equivalent of Wilson and Whitner as FA LBs, Id say "Sign our young LBs instead".

 

A 75% Merriman is better than what we have now.

 

A broken down Sanders is not.

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Ryan Lilja and Raheem Brock disagree with you.

 

Also, just because with his injury history he wasn't a fit for cover 2 with the strong safety expected to help more in run support - you know- cause the front 7 are undersized, maybe he stays a little cleaner somewhere else. Not that our run defense is to write home about but if we bring in a few big bodies to protect the guys behind them maybe we stay healthier.

Edited by NoSaint
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Strictly because we dont have any proven quality players at that position. If we had the equivalent of Wilson and Whitner as FA LBs, Id say "Sign our young LBs instead".

 

A 75% Merriman is better than what we have now.

 

A broken down Sanders is not.

When has Merriman last been "75%"? Is he off IR?

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All that sounds good, but how much do you want to rely on players who have not been able to play the last 3 years. If we have 2 key guys that we are counting on and neither pan out it could be another long year on defense. I would agree if we can get sanders cheap it might be worth looking into, but I bet there is enough interest in him that he will not be signed cheap. I would love to see us sign 1 or 2 proven guys on defense that can step in and start. Then taking chances on unreliable players and new guys form the draft isnt so bad. With the way our D played last year and looking like its possible several starters will not be returning we need proven players not question marks.

 

 

Agreed. I think we still need to pool talent but if we let whitner walk a rotation with sanders Byrd, Wilson and Scott isnt the end of the world as long as sanders isn't hurt currently. If we can get some productive snaps, keep him in a rotation, he should help. Say he gets a 60/40 split with Scott and wilson taking some snaps to keep him fresh. Coupled with some bigger bodies up front then the colts have (we hope) and I don't think it's crazy.

 

When has Merriman last been "75%"? Is he off IR?

We have no idea where he is. For all we know he would have been ready this year but everyone decided to get him to 100% instead of putting him out there in throwaway games with the injury only mostly healed.... Definitely reasons to be skeptical but imagine if we hit on one of these guys- so what if we miss on one. Are we so good that our 50-53rd roster spots will be filled with someone we couldn't find on the streets mid season if they are ir'ed?

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When has Merriman last been "75%"? Is he off IR?

 

Last time Merriman was 75% was last season, 2009, where he played 14 games and had 4 sacks.

 

Look at the number of Games Played for Sanders:

http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/careerstats?id=SAN287153

 

2010 - 1

2009 - 2

2008 - 6

2007 - 15

2006 - 4

2005 - 14

2004 - 6

 

 

 

There are differences here in their Injuries/Time on IR/Production, and Positional Need.

 

Although, if we dont sign either Whitner or Wilson, than I guess Safety is a need but I dont agree with creating holes where they dont need to be at this point. Sign Whitner and Wilson and we dont HAVE to draft Safeties for a handful of more years. Let them walk and sign Sanders and we're picking DBs in 2012. Sign your young players and shore up the Front 7, THEN see where we can improve the team.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Edit: Digging a little deeper on the Sanders VS Whitner argument.

 

Sanders Career Stats Page:

http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/profile?id=SAN287153

 

Whitner Career Stats Page:

http://www.nfl.com/players/dontewhitner/profile?id=WHI720119

 

 

Ok, looking at those stats, how can anyone think Sanders is better?

 

Sanders had as many INTs over his first 5 seasons as Whitner. Sanders has half as many tackles. And he's only played in 46 games his ENTIRE 7 year career (to Whitner's 69 in 5 years).

 

People gripe that Whitner is too small to play back there, yet Sanders is 2 inches shorter and 2 pounds lighter.

 

 

Look, maybe if Sanders could stay healthy and had as many games as Whitner, he would have much better stats and it would be obvious that Sanders is the better player. But what good is a player who cant get on the field? What good is letting your young, home drafted talent walk just to create a hole that you fill with a broken down player?

 

I've trusted Buddy and Co. so far, but if this is how they end up handling the safety situation, I'll be a little concerned.

Edited by DrDankenstein
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Maybe this is our new plan. Instead of losing so many players to IR during the season and having to fill in the holes at the last second... we'll just sign players who are already injured so we know what to expect going into the season. The team will be great in Madden though! (with injuries turned off, of course)

 

:thumbsup:

Hopefully the new CBA will allow us to keep 106 players. That way we can sign Sanders, Merriman, Schockey and a few others. We won't be half bad!

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Sanders is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Whitner. Sanders makes game-changing plays whenever he is on the field; unfortunately, that isn't very often. Whitner is extremely durable but has made a grand total of ZERO game-changing plays over his career.

Sanders is not the much different then Whitner. Neither are intuitive players like Wilson can be. What Sanders is good at is what Whitner is good at, too. Sanders, in his prime was better then Whitner and no one can say, with certainty, that he still is. Both Whitner and Sanders use athleticism to make plays on the field. That is it. Where Byrd found the location to be on the field naturally, and Wilson has the strenght, too; both Sanders and Whitner do not put themselves in location. They get themselves in location. A SS having as many INT's as Sanders did earlier is insane and is nothing more then a result of the Tampa2. When you have a capable LB who can drop in to coverage to let the SS play straight on the pass then you get Sanders. A very good SS, but a product of the system he played.

 

Since 2006, what Bills players have made any game-changing plays?

Speaking the truth.

 

Whitner is just a whipping boy in Buffalo.

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If you mean in the Bills' favor, the answer would be none... but they've made plenty of 'em for the other guys!

LMAO!!!!!

 

Sanders is not the much different then Whitner. Neither are intuitive players like Wilson can be. What Sanders is good at is what Whitner is good at, too. Sanders, in his prime was better then Whitner and no one can say, with certainty, that he still is. Both Whitner and Sanders use athleticism to make plays on the field. That is it. Where Byrd found the location to be on the field naturally, and Wilson has the strenght, too; both Sanders and Whitner do not put themselves in location. They get themselves in location. A SS having as many INT's as Sanders did earlier is insane and is nothing more then a result of the Tampa2. When you have a capable LB who can drop in to coverage to let the SS play straight on the pass then you get Sanders. A very good SS, but a product of the system he played.

 

 

Speaking the truth.

 

Whitner is just a whipping boy in Buffalo.

You are 100% incorrect! No comparison! BS made plays and DW hasn't. Bottom line

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You are 100% incorrect! No comparison! BS made plays and DW hasn't. Bottom line

How did Sanders make plays? What type of player is he? Can you explain the Tampa2 defense to me? Can you do this in detail? Also, explain the SS in the roles of both the 3-4 and 4-3. You are 100% lacking on football knowledge evidently.

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Every other team's best players are simply good players in great systems, whereas the roster of Bills underperformers are superior talents locked in a bad system. That provides endless excuses and is a central scripted theme for many here.

It isn't football knowledge with Uncle Rico, it is just following your favorite sport. Some people have hobbies that include kite flying or motorcycles, mine is sports.

 

It is not a scripted theme, obviously you haven't seen the posts I provide critical analysis on a player. Heck, I have even vocalized that Kyle Williams will struggle next year, and was huge on the CJ Spiller pick for not having the goods promised in his college tapes. I'm not to big on our CB's, but I am not convinced if that is an issue with the DL. Our LB corps afflutter and we have a lot to fix. Whitner, however, is far from our weakest link on defense and I am sorry that others cannot see it.

 

The only reason to be down on him is that his asking price, from what people say and we know, is high.

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Last time Merriman was 75% was last season, 2009, where he played 14 games and had 4 sacks.

 

And how about the year before that? That's right.

 

Merriman has never played in 16 games in a season. He's also missed a lot of games. Look it up.

 

 

 

Ok, looking at those stats, how can anyone think Sanders is better?

 

I guess anyone who has watched both of them play has come to the conclusion that Sanders is better. Can you reference anyone who agrees with your opposing view?

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You contradict yourself sir! DW blows! You state DW is well rounded. How when he can't cover, takes bad angles, whiffs on tackles, and gets trucked by running backs(patriots 2 years ago). But really, you stated well rounded, but HE CAN'T COVER TE FOR SH*T! How is that well rounded?

Now GW isn't the greatest, but when he was put on the field he did 1 thing, produce. As far as I'm concerned, the entire team was a liability vs the run.

And sure BS can't stay healthy, but i'd still take him over DW! No way BS gets his chest smashed trying to make that tackle against the pats 2 years ago. Lol

Its not anything personal with DW. Its just that he really hasn't produced. I don't care if he was picked 8th or 187th. Imoh, he blows!

Stay in Philly. What a clueless answer. Yeah one tackle when his shoulder was badly injured. Whitner hits like a truck . Always has.

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Stay in Philly. What a clueless answer. Yeah one tackle when his shoulder was badly injured. Whitner hits like a truck . Always has.

forgot to mention, 230# RB with 10+ yards of steam coming at defender adjusting to get in his way...obviously someone has never had tackling drills. It was hard enough for most of us in high school, I cannot imagine what it would be like with an NFL player.

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You contradict yourself sir! DW blows! You state DW is well rounded. How when he can't cover, takes bad angles, whiffs on tackles, and gets trucked by running backs(patriots 2 years ago). But really, you stated well rounded, but HE CAN'T COVER TE FOR SH*T! How is that well rounded?

 

That sounds pretty well rounded to me. You even said he blows at every single thing he does.

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forgot to mention, 230# RB with 10+ yards of steam coming at defender adjusting to get in his way...obviously someone has never had tackling drills. It was hard enough for most of us in high school, I cannot imagine what it would be like with an NFL player.

You got it. Then throw in a seperated shoulder. 140 tackles this year hmnnn. Must have been hitting someone.

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I guess anyone who has watched both of them play has come to the conclusion that Sanders is better. Can you reference anyone who agrees with your opposing view?

 

I don't want to be argumentive but I agree with Dr. Dank. There is no doubt that Sanders is a more dynamic player who seems to always be on the ball. The concern I have with him is that he's an undersized player who plays with a reckless abandon. He is constantly in the middle of the action (including running plays) with a crash and burn style. The problem is that in his self-induced collisions he is the player being mangled.

 

If I had a choice between both of the players at a reasonable price I would take Whitner who has proven to be fairly durable. I consider Whitner to be in the solid (above average) category. Which is much lower than his inflated view of himself.

Edited by JohnC
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Depends on the price, the way the contract is structured and does or doesn't pay out if he produces (incentives) or doesn't because of injury or whatever, and whether Whitner is demanding too much $$. If Whitner is, re-sign Wilson (who deserves it) and get other players. Impact players are needed and worth somewhat of a gamble, just make sure it is as minimal as can be negotiated before signing them. These moves can also free up the Bills to concentrate on other areas for using this years draft picks. Then if the players don't work out, address it later on.

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I like that they are looking st him, it didn't say they signed him. They have to deal with Whitner's and Wilson's agents and if nothing else showing those guys that their clients are expendable is a good strategy. Personally I think Sanders was great but willing to die does tend to get you injured. If they sign him I am hoping there is more in terms of depth and he is semi situational. As far as a contract I would look for them to give him a Merriman type deal, in other words pretty big but with ladders.

I have a feeling that this year Mcgee moves to free safety and we draft a certain CB with #3, I am also looking for Wilson to come back as he is decent and probably not that expensive.

At this point I am wondering if theree is going to be a season though.

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Sanders is not the much different then Whitner. Neither are intuitive players

So, you're not Tony Dungy apparently. :)

like Wilson can be. What Sanders is good at is what Whitner is good at, too. Sanders, in his prime was better then Whitner and no one can say, with certainty, that he still is. Both Whitner and Sanders use athleticism to make plays on the field. That is it. Where Byrd found the location to be on the field naturally, and Wilson has the strenght, too; both Sanders and Whitner do not put themselves in location. They get themselves in location. A SS having as many INT's as Sanders did earlier is insane and is nothing more then a result of the Tampa2.

Are you joking?

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6803/career

 

When you have a capable LB who can drop in to coverage to let the SS play straight on the pass then you get Sanders. A very good SS, but a product of the system he played.

:huh: This means next to zilch as far as your argument because Whitner and Sanders both played in the Tampa-2 at the same position. Sanders has played in 48 games in his career (according to NFL.com) and Whitner played 43 games at SS in his first 3 years. Since then, Whitner got kicked out to FS and then played in a lousy 3-4 hybrid last year where he accumulated a big number of tackles behind a front 7 that was constantly bleeding to death. Sanders won NFL Defensive Player of the Year honors at the position in 2007. So in roughly the same number of games in the same position in the same defensive system, how can you say one is the product of the system and the other brought the same thing to the field?

 

Maybe a better comparison would be Sanders to Merriman? They've each had about as much success since 2007.

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What is the web site you refer to that has a reservoir of NFL data? I would like to store it in my favorites category. You mentioned it before but I didn't record it.

profootballreference.com is a good one--put it in your favorites for sure! Or simply NFL.com stats.

 

I don't want to be argumentive but I agree with Dr. Dank. There is no doubt that Sanders is a more dynamic player who seems to always be on the ball. The concern I have with him is that he's an undersized player who plays with a reckless abandon. He is constantly in the middle of the action (including running plays) with a crash and burn style. The problem is that in his self-induced collisions he is the player being mangled.

 

If I had a choice between both of the players at a reasonable price I would take Whitner who has proven to be fairly durable. I consider Whitner to be in the solid (above average) category. Which is much lower than his inflated view of himself.

My original point wasn't Sanders vs. Whitner--it was the fact that posters were overjoyed to pick up mild head-case and chronically injured Merriman yet are howling at the thought of picking up Snader.

 

Anyway, if ou agree with Dr. Dank that, by comparing stats, no one should think Sanders is better than Whitner (That was his claim that you are agreeing with, I assume)...well, you are certainly entitled to share that opinion. I think I'm with the majority who disagree--I would go further in assuming most people who watch a lot of football wouldn't even consider such a comparison, even if they knew who Whitner was.

 

As for preferring Whitner because he is more durable--I guess that's something to consider. But a clean jersey guy (especially at safety) really doesn't have much value, as far as I can see, other than to fill a spot on the field. Also, Sanders is no waif--he's 207 pounds packed into 5' 8", just 2 inches shorter and same weight as Polumalu. That's a fire plug.

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profootballreference.com is a good one--put it in your favorites for sure! Or simply NFL.com stats.

 

Thank you very much for the info.

 

 

As for preferring Whitner because he is more durable--I guess that's something to consider. But a clean jersey guy (especially at safety) really doesn't have much value, as far as I can see, other than to fill a spot on the field. Also, Sanders is no waif--he's 207 pounds packed into 5' 8", just 2 inches shorter and same weight as Polumalu. That's a fire plug.

 

You might have misread my post on Sanders. I acknowledged that Sanders was better than Whitner. I called him a dynamic player. The problem with him is that he is more often than not hurt. As I noted his crashing style of play, certainly not finesse, is a factor. You may consider him to be a fire plug, but a fire plug out of commission is not very useful when it comes to putting out a fire.

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profootballreference.com is a good one--put it in your favorites for sure! Or simply NFL.com stats.

 

 

My original point wasn't Sanders vs. Whitner--it was the fact that posters were overjoyed to pick up mild head-case and chronically injured Merriman yet are howling at the thought of picking up Snader.

 

Anyway, if ou agree with Dr. Dank that, by comparing stats, no one should think Sanders is better than Whitner (That was his claim that you are agreeing with, I assume)...well, you are certainly entitled to share that opinion. I think I'm with the majority who disagree--I would go further in assuming most people who watch a lot of football wouldn't even consider such a comparison, even if they knew who Whitner was.

 

As for preferring Whitner because he is more durable--I guess that's something to consider. But a clean jersey guy (especially at safety) really doesn't have much value, as far as I can see, other than to fill a spot on the field. Also, Sanders is no waif--he's 207 pounds packed into 5' 8", just 2 inches shorter and same weight as Polumalu. That's a fire plug.

 

 

Thank you very much for the info.

 

 

 

You might have misread my post on Sanders. I acknowledged that Sanders was better than Whitner. I called him a dynamic player. The problem with him is that he is more often than not hurt. As I noted his crashing style of play, certainly not finesse, is a factor. You may consider him to be a fire plug, but a fire plug out of commission is not very useful when it comes to putting out a fire.

 

 

WEO, the bolded is basically my argument too. I fully agree that if they had the same amount of playing time, Sanders would have much better numbers than Whitner because he would be the much better player.

 

HOWEVER, when you put the "if"s aside and deal with reality, what you have in Sanders is a guy who has played in LESS THAN HALF of the games in his career. What good is having the "better" player when he's never on the field? How good can Sanders be from the bench? How does that help improve the team? Do the Bills really need another guy on IR?

 

If you rate Sanders a 90 when healthy, and Whitner an 80, doesnt having an 80 on the field for all 16 games sound better than a 90 for 2 games (and then having to hope his backup plays well)?

Edited by DrDankenstein
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