disco Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 For that dealership, the only opinion that matters is that of the Bears fans. This is correct. JW may be correct in a national sense, but nobody in Buffalo is going there to buy a car. If a Buffalo area car dealership fired someone for a Dolphins tie, there would be no backlash in Buffalo. Furthermore I don't believe there is a clear cut public opinion on whether their decision was inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 To me, the most telling quote / lines are: “I was just showing my love for my team and it was a nice, smart tie that matched my clothes — none of the customers minded: they had a sense of humor about it.” Roberts agreed that no customers had complained about the tie when Stone was asked to remove it at 10:30 a.m., and that Stone was a good salesman who sold 14 cars last month. To fire someone over a tie just seems stupid to me. The customers didn't mind and he's a good salesman - if anything just break the guys balls all day and have fun with it. As for the Bears promotion I'm pretty sure no one from the Bears would have been out checking up on their local car dealer marketing partnerships. And even if they had, I doubt the Bears are going to refuse their money and loaners because of THIS. I'm so thankful I have a job where no one dictates how I dress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 insubordination... he was wearing something that potential customers may find in poor taste given the circumstances. If he had wore the tie in to the job just to get a reaction out of his co-workers, and then changed to a different tie, that would have been no problem. He potentially could have been costing the dealership sales and money. He knew what he was doing and was just being a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 #1- this is gonna generate an awful lot of free advertising which will result in increased car sales. #2- in two weeks the guy fired will get his job back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Yeah... I just read that... Was a car dealership in Oak Lawn (South Suburb). Not for wearing the Packers tie... But for not taking it off. It was a sales job... See that is the thing about this rivalry that I never understood... There is like no "buffer zone." GB/WI and CHI/ILL are so damn close... Almost one. When the state of Illinois became a state, it actually used slight of hand to dupe Congress in moving the border between WI terr. and Illinois to where it is today... Farther away from the prime commercial zone at the end of the lake. At least when we mention the BFLO-MIA rivalry... There is at least some room between the two places. What I am saying is that in the Chicago area--- You see quite a mixing of fans and it seems normal. There are many, many Packer fans in CHI... Coming from BFLO, to me, that is strange. I got used to it because of that non-existant "buffer zone." Now... I live on the Indiana (Illinana) border... Head into Indiana and you have the Colts begin to dominate the place with a mixing of Bears fans and their stuff. The Colt fans in Indiana now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The guy was an a-hole for wearing a Packers tie to work the day after a gut-wrenching loss to the most hated of all rivals. As Bills fans know, it takes a while to get over losses like this. I am a car salesman. I would not dream of wearing that tie the day after a game like that. It's rude. It's mean. I don't buy the b.s. about the guy's grandmother either. Earlier this fall, Missouri was playing Nebraska on a Saturday afternoon. One of our salesmen was cheering for Nebraska....being a jerk about it. My boss, who went to Mizzou, advised him to dial it down a notch, or he might get his ass kicked....by a customer. The manager at this dealership in Chicago was right asking him to change ties. The day after that loss, if he condoned the guy wearing that tie, it would be a slap in the face to his customers, many of whom are surely Bears fans in mourning. The salesman was a jerk. I'm surprised his comrades didn't escort him to the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 lawsuit for what? he was warned on 2 instances about a dress code violation his superior reasonably deemed detrimental to their business. What violation???? His boss's subjectivity? Give me a break. The guy was an a-hole for wearing a Packers tie to work the day after a gut-wrenching loss to the most hated of all rivals. As Bills fans know, it takes a while to get over losses like this. I am a car salesman. I would not dream of wearing that tie the day after a game like that. It's rude. It's mean. I don't buy the b.s. about the guy's grandmother either. Earlier this fall, Missouri was playing Nebraska on a Saturday afternoon. One of our salesmen was cheering for Nebraska....being a jerk about it. My boss, who went to Mizzou, advised him to dial it down a notch, or he might get his ass kicked....by a customer. The manager at this dealership in Chicago was right asking him to change ties. The day after that loss, if he condoned the guy wearing that tie, it would be a slap in the face to his customers, many of whom are surely Bears fans in mourning. The salesman was a jerk. I'm surprised his comrades didn't escort him to the curb. So my view on this is different. I'm in the military... I serve to protect the rights we have such as the freeedom of speech, religion and expression. And some petty, dick boss in Chicago has the right to fire someone because of a "tie"? That boss went way too far on this. They guy wasn't harrassing anyone. Do you know what he has to endure all year long living in Chicago as a Packers fan...? He DEALS with it, just as his boss should have just dealt with something that was NOT even an issue. There is noting wrong with his choice of attire; toughen up Chicago, you're supposed to be a thick skinned town. insubordination... he was wearing something that potential customers may find in poor taste given the circumstances. If he had wore the tie in to the job just to get a reaction out of his co-workers, and then changed to a different tie, that would have been no problem. He potentially could have been costing the dealership sales and money. He knew what he was doing and was just being a pain. Put yourself in his shoes as a Bills fan... if the Bills just went to the SB after beating Miami, you're damned straight I would be sporting my teams colors to work, especially if I lived in Miami. They boss even admitted that he fired the guy SOLEY on the basis of the tie... not that it hurt sales, not that it bothered customers... the boss is a dick, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 seems over reactive. but. if you are selling cars to chicago area folks, you probably wouldnt want to wear a tie that might irritate them. and i guess the manager was a little more worried about selling cars than the wise ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Heard on the Scott Van Pelt show the dude sold 14 cars last month and already has a job with another dealership. No biggie, in the end it was a win win for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 So these employees were going out and meeting clients in steelers gear the day after the game? How many millions of dollars does your company spend sponsoring the Ravens? Does it matter? Still a crappy way to treat an employee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Anyone who "Mourns" over a sporting event has absolutely no grasp on reality whatsoever. The "Manager" said it wouldn't have been an issue if it had been before the game, despite the fact that he claims that the deals they have with the Bears was a factor. He has no credibility and is a laughingstock to all sensible people. And for all the irrational ones that laughably mourn losses in sports.....2000? Take it to the bank- it wasn't going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What? Salesman will be less likely to kiss ass if the customer is paying cash? No. Ideally, there won't be any need for a salesman. Just one price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What violation???? His boss's subjectivity? Give me a break. So my view on this is different. I'm in the military... I serve to protect the rights we have such as the freeedom of speech, religion and expression. And some petty, dick boss in Chicago has the right to fire someone because of a "tie"? That boss went way too far on this. They guy wasn't harrassing anyone. Do you know what he has to endure all year long living in Chicago as a Packers fan...? He DEALS with it, just as his boss should have just dealt with something that was NOT even an issue. There is noting wrong with his choice of attire; toughen up Chicago, you're supposed to be a thick skinned town. Put yourself in his shoes as a Bills fan... if the Bills just went to the SB after beating Miami, you're damned straight I would be sporting my teams colors to work, especially if I lived in Miami. They boss even admitted that he fired the guy SOLEY on the basis of the tie... not that it hurt sales, not that it bothered customers... the boss is a dick, plain and simple. Well, I must first thank you for being willing to put your life on the line to defend this country. You men and women are all true heroes. Certainly freedom of expression is an important right in this country, but when you choose to work at most jobs you give up certain freedoms. For example, you give up a lot of freedom to work in the military. Just because the constitution guarantees us certain freedoms does that mean you can exercise them whenever you want in the military? Same thing here but on a lesser scale. Image is everything in sales and this gentleman knows that. His boss requested/told him more than once to remove the tie and it went unheeded. Even though it's not the military, this salesman is part of a team that has standards for dress and appearance. Didn't bother any customers or hurt sales? Maybe a couple of customers just left without saying anything. The boss may have been a bit over the top but it's part of his job to ensure he doesn't lose business because of the way the salesman was dressed. The salesman was insubordinate, plain and simple. He can wear his Green Bay stuff outside of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I never knew that! It sounds lot like the Port Lawrence/Toledo issue. Michigan originally claimed Toledo as its own, Ohio fought it and won and as compensation Michigan was given the U.P. In the end Michigan got the better end of the deal but Michigan wanted control of the Maumee river and a good port for Lake Erie. That is just one small part of the hatred between the two. It all had to do with trade routes and CONTROL. Pushing the cheeseeaters north. Illinois was granted statehood in 1818... WI some 30 years later in 1848. Nathanial Pope is the one who orchastrated the slight of hand with Congress in 1818 when Illinois gained its statehood... Pushing the WI terr. border where it is today. Quick from Wiki: "Illinois was admitted as a state while Pope was in Congress, and he was instrumental in adjusting the northern boundary of the state from the southern extremity of Lake Michigan to 42° 30', thus adding the territory now included in the thirteen northern counties. This action became very important for the development of the State, because it added what was to become its largest city, Chicago." That was a very important geographical location at the "Chicago Portage" (ancient continental divide)... Future home of the I&M Canal that made what Chicago is today... And the State of Illinois. What the Erie did for NYS, the I&M did for the Illinois... Then the disbanding of the ditch for the canalization of the actual "big" rivers (with the advent of the internal combustion engine) continues this very day. It is the only reason Chicago is a world player: geographical luck. If it wasn't Illinois doing it, it would have been the future state of WI and the business interests there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, I must first thank you for being willing to put your life on the line to defend this country. You men and women are all true heroes. Certainly freedom of expression is an important right in this country, but when you choose to work at most jobs you give up certain freedoms. For example, you give up a lot of freedom to work in the military. Just because the constitution guarantees us certain freedoms does that mean you can exercise them whenever you want in the military? Same thing here but on a lesser scale. Image is everything in sales and this gentleman knows that. His boss requested/told him more than once to remove the tie and it went unheeded. Even though it's not the military, this salesman is part of a team that has standards for dress and appearance. Didn't bother any customers or hurt sales? Maybe a couple of customers just left without saying anything. The boss may have been a bit over the top but it's part of his job to ensure he doesn't lose business because of the way the salesman was dressed. The salesman was insubordinate, plain and simple. He can wear his Green Bay stuff outside of work. To allow him to wear it before the game, but not after the game is silly. I bet there wouldn't have been an issue if the Bears had won the game and he wore it then. This is school yard BS... The boss should have a grown man about it all. Worst case is, you tell the guy he is relieved from work that day, and you'd like to meet with him the next time he comes into work to discuss "appropriate attire and sensitivity". Progressive discipline could have been used here, but I guess that dealership doesn't send it's bosses to any leadership training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) Not if that court is in Chicago. Again, we're talking about a job where the sole skill is to make people like you and trust you. You don't do that by wearing a Packers tie in Chicago. It's just common sense. That is totally untrue. Chicago is not like the BFLO-MIA rivalry... Sure there is alot of hard feelings about the Pack... But ther are a lot of Pack fans in Chicago... Many actually grow up Pack fans and not Bears fans... Really. I honestly don't think it would hurt business or the ties the dealership has with the Bears. This is an area where there is a lot more mutal respect than you think. Sure there is hate... But the lines are not as drawn as they are in BFLO-MIA.... Not even close... insubordination... he was wearing something that potential customers may find in poor taste given the circumstances. If he had wore the tie in to the job just to get a reaction out of his co-workers, and then changed to a different tie, that would have been no problem. He potentially could have been costing the dealership sales and money. He knew what he was doing and was just being a pain. That is untrue... THIS ISN'T BFLO... There are many people that are Pack fans than you think in this region. The manager may have HURT business. I know I wouldn't buy a car from them and I live 20 miles from the dealership. Same with about half of the people I work with... And they were all born in the region. It is called bragging rights in this region... They don't call it bragging rights in WNY when BFLO or MIA wins. This region is very well mixed... Sure there are more Bears fans... But these two teams are more like two high school football teams from the same town... IMO, that is how many view this rivalry. The Colt fans in Indiana now? Really. Or the many, many in Chicago. My boss was a Bears fan his whole life growing up and into adulthood... Lived and died Bears... Born in Chicago... Had season tickets for many years UNTIL the Bears priced him out with the new renovation of Soldier Field and the subsequent PSLs... He does live in NW Indiana and is now a Colts fan... Boy did he love the Pack beating the Bears and in 2007 when the Colts beat them in the SuperBowl. Edited January 26, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBillsFan Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What violation???? His boss's subjectivity? Give me a break. So my view on this is different. I'm in the military... So when a Superior gives you an order you just say ahhh I don't like that one...He does it again, you blow him off again...There would be no consequences??? That's the point his BOSS told him chose the tie or the job he chose the tie, HIS CHOICE. Thank you for your service to our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 #1- this is gonna generate an awful lot of free advertising which will result in increased car sales. #2- in two weeks the guy fired will get his job back. maybe in Milwaukee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I didn't see anybody mention that this guy was out for publicity.......He had the job for 6 weeks!.....And, somehow it's all over the internet the day after he gets fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 and yet the boss noted that it would've been ok with him if the salesman wore the tie a day before the game. don't cite employment law. cite the law of common sense. whether or not there's a lawsuit, the dealership in question has lost in the court of public opinion. jw The sales manager seems like a jackass, but how do we know this guys sales number weren't crap? Maybe he just needed a reason, any reason to fire the guy. I don't know if the court of public opinion is shopping for cars at this dealership, but I doubt they lost many Chicago Bears fans as customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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