Why are we not playing our drafted rookies?

[ndirish1978]

We have more undrafted rookie FAs contributing to this team than drafted rookies. Chan's stock answer to any personnel questions is "we are evaluating talent all the time to put the best team on the field." That answer, which is the only thing you'd get from our HC, is a terrible indictment of our draft.

The natural follow-up question then is "why are we not drafting well enough that our drafted players can't beat out UDFAs?" Carrington is NEVER active. Troupe never sees the field (at least it's because Williams is playing well). Wang had to be converted to another position. We cut one of the Tackles we drafted and we have 2 guys out for the year. So Moats, a 5th rd pick and Spiller (in a limited way) are the ONLY drafted rookies even regularly contributing to the team.

 

How can Ralph possibly justify not firing Modrak? In my opinion (I believe most of the board's opinion), Modrak has single-handedly gotten 4 coaches fired due to the utter lack of talent he has gotten us in the draft. Can we please start a FireModrak.com website or something? He is the devil. I'll put money towards it.

[Dr. Fong]

It is amazing when you break it down like that.

[Simon]

It is a long-standing tradition here at TSW to refrain from starting new threads during games. Please do your part in helping us keep this the best Buffalo Bills message board on the planet.

Thanks for your help!

[ndirish1978]

Come to think of it I forgot Levi Brown. When we take the contributing vs non-contributing players we really only have 5 players from the past 2 drafts on the field. That is 5 of 17! that boils down to roughly a 29% rate of drafting a DECENT player. If you were only moderately successful at your job 29% of the time do you think you would still be employed?

[bisonbrigade]

A blind a monkey throwing darts at draft board could pick players better. There better off letting the fans pick the players.

[jr1]

The FO knows where the bodies are buried

[The Big Cat]

We have more undrafted rookie FAs contributing to this team than drafted rookies. Chan's stock answer to any personnel questions is "we are evaluating talent all the time to put the best team on the field." That answer, which is the only thing you'd get from our HC, is a terrible indictment of our draft.

 

The natural follow-up question then is "why are we not drafting well enough that our drafted players can't beat out UDFAs?" Carrington is NEVER active. Troupe never sees the field (at least it's because Williams is playing well). Wang had to be converted to another position. We cut one of the Tackles we drafted and we have 2 guys out for the year. So Moats, a 5th rd pick and Spiller (in a limited way) are the ONLY drafted rookies even regularly contributing to the team.

 

How can Ralph possibly justify not firing Modrak? In my opinion (I believe most of the board's opinion), Modrak has single-handedly gotten 4 coaches fired due to the utter lack of talent he has gotten us in the draft. Can we please start a FireModrak.com website or something? He is the devil. I'll put money towards it.

 

So because Troupe "never sees the field" (a false statement) and because Wang was/is injured, and because Carrington (a known raw but athletic freak) isn't playing, it's an indictment? I suppose Easley's injury and the fact we can't run block for CJ makes for a crappy draft too.

 

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to B word about, IMO.

[Thunderstealer]

Thank God for us Suh was not available for us to not take.

[Bob in STL]

We have more undrafted rookie FAs contributing to this team than drafted rookies. Chan's stock answer to any personnel questions is "we are evaluating talent all the time to put the best team on the field." That answer, which is the only thing you'd get from our HC, is a terrible indictment of our draft.

The natural follow-up question then is "why are we not drafting well enough that our drafted players can't beat out UDFAs?" Carrington is NEVER active. Troupe never sees the field (at least it's because Williams is playing well). Wang had to be converted to another position. We cut one of the Tackles we drafted and we have 2 guys out for the year. So Moats, a 5th rd pick and Spiller (in a limited way) are the ONLY drafted rookies even regularly contributing to the team.

 

How can Ralph possibly justify not firing Modrak? In my opinion (I believe most of the board's opinion), Modrak has single-handedly gotten 4 coaches fired due to the utter lack of talent he has gotten us in the draft. Can we please start a FireModrak.com website or something? He is the devil. I'll put money towards it.

 

This just in ... Buddy Nix did the drafting last year. Buddy Nix selects the players. We finally have a football man running the draft that will freely admit that he is responsible for drafting the players. Modrak is a scout. If Buddy Nix thinks that Modrak is not a good scout thsan Buddy Nix can fire him.

 

Rookies are rookies and most of them don't play much. This is the NFL.

 

Spiller plays. Troup plays as a backup. Carrington must not be ready. Easley is hurt. Wang is not ready. Moats plays. Batten is hurt.

 

We cut a 7th round tackle and a 7th round QB. We have some undrafted players like Coleman and Howard that have contributed.

 

Chill.

[Paup 1995MVP]

So because Troupe "never sees the field" (a false statement) and because Wang was/is injured, and because Carrington (a known raw but athletic freak) isn't playing, it's an indictment? I suppose Easley's injury and the fact we can't run block for CJ makes for a crappy draft too.

 

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to B word about, IMO.

Ur post is just plain stupid and wrong. The OP is correct. Our draft picks have done next to NOTHING this year. For a team that is 1-8, NOONE including Spiller is making any kind of an impact. Do you really think that our draft picks look like studs in the making? That Carrington can not even dress given how few playmakers we have in the front seven means he just really sucks, or the coaching staff has no clue. The same can be said for Maybin. That he can not even dress ahead of Coleman or Moats is really shocking. What other team in the league would not at least try and play the 11th pick in the draft?

[Andrew in CA]

The same can be said for Maybin. That he can not even dress ahead of Coleman or Moats is really shocking. What other team in the league would not at least try and play the 11th pick in the draft?

Why should he play if he's not ready? Playing a guy just because of his draft slot is absolutely dumb.

[Pirate Angel]

Ur post is just plain stupid and wrong. The OP is correct. Our draft picks have done next to NOTHING this year. For a team that is 1-8, NOONE including Spiller is making any kind of an impact. Do you really think that our draft picks look like studs in the making? That Carrington can not even dress given how few playmakers we have in the front seven means he just really sucks, or the coaching staff has no clue. The same can be said for Maybin. That he can not even dress ahead of Coleman or Moats is really shocking. What other team in the league would not at least try and play the 11th pick in the draft?

Any team whose previous regime drafted Aaron Maybin at #11 would not try and play there #11 pick. He is horrible, he cant even play special teams. Most teams rookies past the 2nd round do not play much. the 2nd half of the season is just starting which is where you are more likely to see some of the later round picks come along.

[Arkady Renko]

Troup and Moats are contributing. Easley looked good before his injury.

Edited November 15, 2010 by johnnyb

[John from Riverside]

The only thing I would like to add to this thread is Carrington must be extremely raw to not at least get him SOME burn......

 

I personally think Stroud is gone next year and Carrington is moved up...but would really like to see what he can do in the last part of the season.....

[BillsVet]

This just in ... Buddy Nix did the drafting last year. Buddy Nix selects the players. We finally have a football man running the draft that will freely admit that he is responsible for drafting the players. Modrak is a scout. If Buddy Nix thinks that Modrak is not a good scout thsan Buddy Nix can fire him.

 

Rookies are rookies and most of them don't play much. This is the NFL.

 

Spiller plays. Troup plays as a backup. Carrington must not be ready. Easley is hurt. Wang is not ready. Moats plays. Batten is hurt.

 

We cut a 7th round tackle and a 7th round QB. We have some undrafted players like Coleman and Howard that have contributed.

 

Chill.

 

It's a long standing tradition at OBD to blame fired individuals for bad draft picks. Or, when a guy like Modrak remains part of the process, to leak that he'd have selected Player X who's become successful elsewhere to his media pals. If ole Buddy was helping in '09 and running things in '10, I'm not impressed thus far. The '10 draft class is contributing very little, or the coaching staff doesn't know how to use them properly. They drafted Spiller, who through 8 games had 57 touches from the LOS. Troup was taken to be a 34NT, and they've reverted to a 43. Carrington is a 34DE, but doesn't dress. I'm not worried about the 4th rounders and later, but the top picks should be expected to play a role, and they're not considering their individual draft position.

 

From '09, everyone's distanced themselves from the Maybin pick, Wood is recovering, Levitre is good, and Byrd's rookie season seems to be a fluke. Not what I'd call stellar, especially considering all the rookies contributing this season in the NFL. So from '09, they found 2 guards with 2 very high picks for the position. Not impressive.

 

Most importantly, in two seasons the Bills haven't found one guy to play the toughest positions: QB, OT, and pass-rusher. Instead, we're left with picks at positions that aren't as challenging to find, like S, G, ILB, and RB. Not surprisingly, they still struggle mightily to dominate at the LOS.

 

And I don't believe for a moment that Buddy has the power to fire anyone, despite his apparently lofty position. I'll maintain RW or his handlers are the ones who sign-off on any and all firings. After all, it was RW and not Brandon who fired DJ. Why would the director of college scouting be any different?

[DanInUticaTampa]

Ur post is just plain stupid and wrong. The OP is correct. Our draft picks have done next to NOTHING this year. For a team that is 1-8, NOONE including Spiller is making any kind of an impact. Do you really think that our draft picks look like studs in the making? That Carrington can not even dress given how few playmakers we have in the front seven means he just really sucks, or the coaching staff has no clue. The same can be said for Maybin. That he can not even dress ahead of Coleman or Moats is really shocking. What other team in the league would not at least try and play the 11th pick in the draft?

 

No one is saying they look like "studs." Our drafing as obviously sucked in recent years. But hating on these rookies and hating on the coaches for not starting rookies is crazy. I think you are crazy for hating the coaching staff for not starting maybin. I don't care when he was picked. They had him play an entire game and he was just terrible and showed he didn't know what he was doing. He shouldn't be dressed and if you think the coaching staff should play a player like that, then you are just insane. The guy can't play. Maybe down the road, but I doubt it. Maybin can't play right now, and you suggesting he should play is terrible.

 

But there is nothing wrong with rookies not starting their 1st year. A lot of teams are not starting a lot of their rookies. Teaching the rookies to play is a hell of a lot better than having them play in a game when they have so much to learn. If you do that, then they learn the WRONG way to do it and they just suck.

 

 

After marv's 1st draft, almost every rookie was starting. That worked out SO well for us.

 

It's a long standing tradition at OBD to blame fired individuals for bad draft picks. Or, when a guy like Modrak remains part of the process, to leak that he'd have selected Player X who's become successful elsewhere to his media pals. If ole Buddy was helping in '09 and running things in '10, I'm not impressed thus far. The '10 draft class is contributing very little, or the coaching staff doesn't know how to use them properly. They drafted Spiller, who through 8 games had 57 touches from the LOS. Troup was taken to be a 34NT, and they've reverted to a 43. Carrington is a 34DE, but doesn't dress. I'm not worried about the 4th rounders and later, but the top picks should be expected to play a role, and they're not considering their individual draft position.

 

From '09, everyone's distanced themselves from the Maybin pick, Wood is recovering, Levitre is good, and Byrd's rookie season seems to be a fluke. Not what I'd call stellar, especially considering all the rookies contributing this season in the NFL. So from '09, they found 2 guards with 2 very high picks for the position. Not impressive.

 

Most importantly, in two seasons the Bills haven't found one guy to play the toughest positions: QB, OT, and pass-rusher. Instead, we're left with picks at positions that aren't as challenging to find, like S, G, ILB, and RB. Not surprisingly, they still struggle mightily to dominate at the LOS.

 

And I don't believe for a moment that Buddy has the power to fire anyone, despite his apparently lofty position. I'll maintain RW or his handlers are the ones who sign-off on any and all firings. After all, it was RW and not Brandon who fired DJ. Why would the director of college scouting be any different?

 

Agreed with almost all of this.

[Mr. WEO]

So because Troupe "never sees the field" (a false statement) and because Wang was/is injured, and because Carrington (a known raw but athletic freak) isn't playing, it's an indictment? I suppose Easley's injury and the fact we can't run block for CJ makes for a crappy draft too.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to B word about, IMO.

What are the top 5 things?

[ndirish1978]

No one is saying they look like "studs." Our drafing as obviously sucked in recent years. But hating on these rookies and hating on the coaches for not starting rookies is crazy. I think you are crazy for hating the coaching staff for not starting maybin. I don't care when he was picked. They had him play an entire game and he was just terrible and showed he didn't know what he was doing. He shouldn't be dressed and if you think the coaching staff should play a player like that, then you are just insane. The guy can't play. Maybe down the road, but I doubt it. Maybin can't play right now, and you suggesting he should play is terrible.

 

But there is nothing wrong with rookies not starting their 1st year. A lot of teams are not starting a lot of their rookies. Teaching the rookies to play is a hell of a lot better than having them play in a game when they have so much to learn. If you do that, then they learn the WRONG way to do it and they just suck.

 

 

After marv's 1st draft, almost every rookie was starting. That worked out SO well for us.

 

 

 

Agreed with almost all of this.

 

My original post was simply an observation of players who are even PLAYING. I am not complaining that Carrington, Troup and Maybin aren't starting. I AM concerned that we drafted Maybin in the 1st and Carrington in the 3rd and they can't even play their way onto the bench. You're blind if you think that Modrak doesn't have input as to who goes where on our draft boards. He may not make the ultimate call, but he is responsible for evaluating these guys and is involved in slotting them on our draft board. I've already stated that others have done a far better job than I could pointing out our draft failures. Simply ask yourself, who is that last 1st/2nd rd pick we've made that has been a big-time player for us under Modrak (who joined the team in '01)? Clements in '01 and Evans (whose value to us is overrated) in '04? That's 2 1st round picks in 10 years. You cannot whiff on first round picks. In that time we've had Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron and Chan as Head Coaches, 0 playoff appearances and 3 1/2 General Managers. Like it or not, Modrak's failure to evaluate talent has put all the above mentioned ex-GMs and HCs in poor positions to succeed.

[ndirish1978]

No one is saying they look like "studs." Our drafing as obviously sucked in recent years. But hating on these rookies and hating on the coaches for not starting rookies is crazy. I think you are crazy for hating the coaching staff for not starting maybin. I don't care when he was picked. They had him play an entire game and he was just terrible and showed he didn't know what he was doing. He shouldn't be dressed and if you think the coaching staff should play a player like that, then you are just insane. The guy can't play. Maybe down the road, but I doubt it. Maybin can't play right now, and you suggesting he should play is terrible.

 

But there is nothing wrong with rookies not starting their 1st year. A lot of teams are not starting a lot of their rookies. Teaching the rookies to play is a hell of a lot better than having them play in a game when they have so much to learn. If you do that, then they learn the WRONG way to do it and they just suck.

 

 

After marv's 1st draft, almost every rookie was starting. That worked out SO well for us.

 

 

 

Agreed with almost all of this.

 

You should note I am talking about Modrak, not the coaching staff. They are correctly playing the best guys they can find.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Wow, I didn't realize that people on this board are smarter than people who do this for a living. It really amzes me that more posters here don't work for NFLteams considering how smart they think they are.

 

In my opinion (I believe most of the board's opinion),.

[Bob in STL]

It's a long standing tradition at OBD to blame fired individuals for bad draft picks. Or, when a guy like Modrak remains part of the process, to leak that he'd have selected Player X who's become successful elsewhere to his media pals. If ole Buddy was helping in '09 and running things in '10, I'm not impressed thus far. The '10 draft class is contributing very little, or the coaching staff doesn't know how to use them properly. They drafted Spiller, who through 8 games had 57 touches from the LOS. Troup was taken to be a 34NT, and they've reverted to a 43. Carrington is a 34DE, but doesn't dress. I'm not worried about the 4th rounders and later, but the top picks should be expected to play a role, and they're not considering their individual draft position.

 

From '09, everyone's distanced themselves from the Maybin pick, Wood is recovering, Levitre is good, and Byrd's rookie season seems to be a fluke. Not what I'd call stellar, especially considering all the rookies contributing this season in the NFL. So from '09, they found 2 guards with 2 very high picks for the position. Not impressive.

 

Most importantly, in two seasons the Bills haven't found one guy to play the toughest positions: QB, OT, and pass-rusher. Instead, we're left with picks at positions that aren't as challenging to find, like S, G, ILB, and RB. Not surprisingly, they still struggle mightily to dominate at the LOS.

 

And I don't believe for a moment that Buddy has the power to fire anyone, despite his apparently lofty position. I'll maintain RW or his handlers are the ones who sign-off on any and all firings. After all, it was RW and not Brandon who fired DJ. Why would the director of college scouting be any different?

 

 

You may be right but why would Ralph be so loyal? He fired Polian. He ran out Butler. He fired Jauron and he left a lot of money on the table to do it. Why would he like Modrak so much, especially a holdover from Donahoe? If anyone needs a scapegoat it is Ralph.

 

Therefore, I think that Modrak is still around because Nix wants to keep him around.

[DanInUticaTampa]

My original post was simply an observation of players who are even PLAYING. I am not complaining that Carrington, Troup and Maybin aren't starting. I AM concerned that we drafted Maybin in the 1st and Carrington in the 3rd and they can't even play their way onto the bench. You're blind if you think that Modrak doesn't have input as to who goes where on our draft boards. He may not make the ultimate call, but he is responsible for evaluating these guys and is involved in slotting them on our draft board. I've already stated that others have done a far better job than I could pointing out our draft failures. Simply ask yourself, who is that last 1st/2nd rd pick we've made that has been a big-time player for us under Modrak (who joined the team in '01)? Clements in '01 and Evans (whose value to us is overrated) in '04? That's 2 1st round picks in 10 years. You cannot whiff on first round picks. In that time we've had Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron and Chan as Head Coaches, 0 playoff appearances and 3 1/2 General Managers. Like it or not, Modrak's failure to evaluate talent has put all the above mentioned ex-GMs and HCs in poor positions to succeed.

 

Overall, I get where you are coming from and I agree with you. I didn't really have a problem with what you said, though I would have said it differently. My only issue was with what that Paup guy said. with him saying "what kind of team doesn't at least TRY to play their 9th overall pick (maybin)" which I thought was stupid. And that comment he made was about the coaching staff. I am not an Edwards fan, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know right now maybin sucks. And if that Paup guy wants to play him just because he is the 9th pick, then I think he is crazy.

 

 

But I agree with you. Even more than the kelsey extenstion, the fact modrak is still here baffles the mind. We missed on too many high picks for him to still have a job imo. I only hope we can somehow overcome that or finally fire him and pick up someone good. But that is going to be the biggest thing that is going to plague any optimism for this team.

 

You may be right but why would Ralph be so loyal? He fired Polian. He ran out Butler. He fired Jauron and he left a lot of money on the table to do it. Why would he like Modrak so much, especially a holdover from Donahoe? If anyone needs a scapegoat it is Ralph.

 

Therefore, I think that Modrak is still around because Nix wants to keep him around.

 

And that sucks, because then he isn't going anywhere. Even if he is not a bad evaluater and it was just bad picks made because of past people, then that is understandable. But even if that is true (I am one of those idiots that think that it is), he is STILL not good at his job and is at least below average. A good GM probably could have taken his evaluations and gotten better players than we did. But I bet a better evaluater would have gotten those idiots (jauron, marv, donaue, whoever) to make better picks as well. We should have cleaned house completly. When Guy was fired is was like "YES!........and?" hoping that modrak was going to go the same time. Didn't happen and that was just dissapointing and actually upsetting for people that really looked at what happened with our past drafts.

[ndirish1978]

You may be right but why would Ralph be so loyal? He fired Polian. He ran out Butler. He fired Jauron and he left a lot of money on the table to do it. Why would he like Modrak so much, especially a holdover from Donahoe? If anyone needs a scapegoat it is Ralph.

 

Therefore, I think that Modrak is still around because Nix wants to keep him around.

 

 

I think that may be a bit misguided. though I agree fully that Ralph is THE reason we have been this bad for so long, Modrak is owed plenty of blame. Ralph, as dementia-riddled as he is, still likes to surround himself with "his" guys. I am now actually starting to understand why Mularkey quit, he knew coaching here with this organizational structure was a losing proposition because of Ralph. Modrak is a joke who has kept his job because of his friendship with Ralph. He has been here through Donohoe, Levy, the failed "no GM' phase with Russ Brandon and now Nix, to think Nix is the reason he is here is a bit naive. He has his job because of Ralph.

[b stein 22]

Come to think of it I forgot Levi Brown. When we take the contributing vs non-contributing players we really only have 5 players from the past 2 drafts on the field. That is 5 of 17! that boils down to roughly a 29% rate of drafting a DECENT player. If you were only moderately successful at your job 29% of the time do you think you would still be employed?

As a baseball player he would still be employed. Also Andy Reid did not play Donovan McNabb his first year so maybe they are just not ready to play yet.

Edited November 15, 2010 by b stein 22

[ndirish1978]

As a baseball player i would still be employed.

[/

 

Ok one vote for Modrak changing careers and playing baseball.

[San-O]

My original post was simply an observation of players who are even PLAYING. I am not complaining that Carrington, Troup and Maybin aren't starting. I AM concerned that we drafted Maybin in the 1st and Carrington in the 3rd and they can't even play their way onto the bench. You're blind if you think that Modrak doesn't have input as to who goes where on our draft boards. He may not make the ultimate call, but he is responsible for evaluating these guys and is involved in slotting them on our draft board. I've already stated that others have done a far better job than I could pointing out our draft failures. Simply ask yourself, who is that last 1st/2nd rd pick we've made that has been a big-time player for us under Modrak (who joined the team in '01)? Clements in '01 and Evans (whose value to us is overrated) in '04? That's 2 1st round picks in 10 years. You cannot whiff on first round picks. In that time we've had Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron and Chan as Head Coaches, 0 playoff appearances and 3 1/2 General Managers. Like it or not, Modrak's failure to evaluate talent has put all the above mentioned ex-GMs and HCs in poor positions to succeed.

 

 

Of they haven't figured this out by now, which they haven't, they won't.

 

It doesn't take many poor F.O. personnel to bring down a franchise when they refuse to

correct themselves.

 

[Bill from NYC]

Wow, I didn't realize that people on this board are smarter than people who do this for a living. It really amzes me that more posters here don't work for NFLteams considering how smart they think they are.

 

Sadly, many posters on this board were WAY more on target wrt the draft than the people calling the shots for the Bills, especially in the Levy/Jauron era.

As crazy as it sounds and as frustrating as it is, this is the truth.

[EastRochBillsfan]

It's threads like these that just piss me off and take away from the enjoyment of TSW. Untill any of you that hate Modrak have any proof of what his recommendations actually were and who actually has made the final decision on who was picked, just please stfu. There's been plenty of good later round finds which leads me to believe the scouts know what they are doing. I am also of the belief that the coaches and gm's(levy) have a BIG say in who is picked early. But I don't know this. Just as you certainly don't know Modrak made the pic. It's been debated here many times and is not fun anymore to read this crap. Just stop.

[Mark Long Beach]

It's threads like these that just piss me off and take away from the enjoyment of TSW. Untill any of you that hate Modrak have any proof of what his recommendations actually were and who actually has made the final decision on who was picked, just please stfu. There's been plenty of good later round finds which leads me to believe the scouts know what they are doing. I am also of the belief that the coaches and gm's(levy) have a BIG say in who is picked early. But I don't know this. Just as you certainly don't know Modrak made the pic. It's been debated here many times and is not fun anymore to read this crap. Just stop.

 

I wish it were that easy to make 'em stop. A little high current through the internet? But seriously, I just hope that the bitching here will help them be better human beings in real life rather than it being a reflection of a miserable existence.

 

Try not to let it drag YOU down, and ignore 'em in whatever way works best for you.

[ndirish1978]

I wish it were that easy to make 'em stop. A little high current through the internet? But seriously, I just hope that the bitching here will help them be better human beings in real life rather than it being a reflection of a miserable existence.

 

Try not to let it drag YOU down, and ignore 'em in whatever way works best for you.

 

 

Your self-righteous pontificating managed to drag down what had been up to this point a largely constructive thread. I put it that it is posters like you, who respond with their gut and post knee jerk reactions rather than actually read what is said that drag down this board. My recommendation: if you don't like the thread, close it and read another one.