Jauron drafted Maybin…

[Thoner7]

I have seen posted in many threads, to the point where it seems to have become an accepted fact, that Maybin was a Juaron Draft pick 100%. Now I like everyone else have heard the reports the Jauron wanted Maybina and Modrak claims to have wanted Cushing – but do you believe everything you hear?

 

At the end of the 2008 Season Jauron was almost FIRED. He was a hair away from getting the Axe (so close so that halfway into 2009 he actually was canned). So, are we to believe that 4 ½ months later, the then “circle jerk of trust” went 100% with a lame duck coach who was sitting on the hottest of hot seats against the advice of the entire scouting staff? I don’t believe that one bit.

 

Now I don’t doubt Jauron wanting Maybin at all, but I do doubt the notion that Modrak was against selecting Maybin. Modrak may have had Cushing as BPA, but I bet he had Maybin as 2nd best BPA – a pick the staff has tried desperately to distance themselves from. There is no way that the scouting staff was trumped completely for the opinion of a coach everyone knew wouldn’t last another year or 2, Jauron defiantly had some backing from eh scouting staff in that draft room.

 

If Modrak was good at his job he would have had Maybin rated no higher than the 4th round. In that case, the “circle jerk of trust” decided to draft the highly un-recommended 4th round prospect that the lame duck halfway fired HC wants? Sorry if I don’t buy that scenario either.

 

Ok, so Modrak wanted Cushing…. Haven’t we heard this before? In 2004 he was part of the scouting staff hand picked by Donahoe to be head of scouting. That year that staff TRADED UP to select Losman. 2 years later in 2006, Modrak was reported to have wanted Cutler (this info, just like the Cushing info, came out AFTER the season). So Modrak had given up on Losman after 2 years, one of which was spent on the bench with a broken leg? Please – not buying it, no way he gave up on Losman that fast. Its also pretty fishy considering Cutler starts off his career on such a strong note – hindsight anyone? Again this Cutler news didn’t break until after the season. Fast forward to 2009 and its Cushing…”I wanted Cushing” Modrak says- again reported after the season, Oh what a coincidence that he is the ROY.

 

I bet if you asked him today who he wanted he would say “I wanted Mathews……”

Sorry but I am not buying it.

[Tortured Soul]

Now I don’t doubt Jauron wanting Maybin at all, but I do doubt the notion that Modrak was against selecting Maybin. Modrak may have had Cushing as BPA, but I bet he had Maybin as 2nd best BPA – a pick the staff has tried desperately to distance themselves from. There is no way that the scouting staff was trumped completely for the opinion of a coach everyone knew wouldn’t last another year or 2, Jauron defiantly had some backing from eh scouting staff in that draft room.

 

I think this is more-or-less true, but I don't see that fitting either answer of your poll question.

[Cash]

"must have", not "must of". And I agree with the OP's sentiment. There's no way Jauron had so much power that he could pick a player who wasn't at or very near the top of the draft board. At the very least, the pick strongly implies that Modrak et al. had Maybin ranked higher than Orakpo on their Big Board. That's basically a fire-able offense right there.

[BuffaloWings]

"must have", not "must of". And I agree with the OP's sentiment. There's no way Jauron had so much power that he could pick a player who wasn't at or very near the top of the draft board. At the very least, the pick strongly implies that Modrak et al. had Maybin ranked higher than Orakpo on their Big Board. That's basically a fire-able offense right there.

I actually thought that Jauron had a lot of draft power, even with Marv on board and certainly after he was gone. For some reason, I had the distinct impression that DJ held a lot of weight as far as personnel decisions. Given that Marv was a figurehead and Brandon knows squat about personnel, seems to make sense that Jauron had a big say as to who to draft.

 

Either way, Modrak has to wonder how thin the ice is.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

My guess is that Cushing was Modrak's best player available. The previous management group drafted for need, which going into the draft most agreed was a pass rushing DE for their tampa 2 defense. Orakpo was likely off of their draft board due to the character concerns that caused him to drop in the draft (probably off many teams boards). Therefore leaving Maybin as the next highest ranked pass rushing DE in the draft.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Zulu Cthulhu]

95% of draft projections had maybin going somewhere in the 1st round (most predicted 2nd half of the round). Your contention that the team picked him 3 rounds too early is asinine - no one said he was a 4th round talent at the time.

 

i don't care what Modrak said, and it's irrelevant anyways. He should be fired as well, but Jauron made the maybin pick as head coach and de facto GM.

[Kelly the Dog]

Aside from another stupid, negative post, drafting is not a yes or no science even though it is hit or miss. I very much doubt hardly any scout had Maybin as a fourth rounder in TALENT. I guarantee there were scouts that, if they were in charge of the draft, wouldn't have SELECTED Maybin until the fourth round because he was a huge risk. But that is an entirely different argument. Everyone obviously knew Maybin only played one year, pretty much everyone knew he was a boom or bust pick, and that he was barely 21 years old. He is still the second youngest player on the Bills behind Troup. And so far, the bust predictions are more correct.

 

It's easy to imagine a scout like Modrak saying, "The kid has great potential, great upside, great physical talent. If it were up to me, I wouldn't take him, I'd take the more sure thing in Cushing and have him rated higher." And regardless of his non-existent production, I bet Ozzie Newsome, even today, would say Maybin still has great potential, great upside, great physical talent." He may think Maybin is never going to reach it. But it still exists. He's 22.

[Fan in San Diego]

I would fire Modrak in a heartbeat. We have nothing but bad drafts with him in the mix. Time to go Modrak, Nix fire this bum.

[VirginiaMike]

It's a shame that neither wanted Orakpo. He willl turn out to be the best of them all.

[shoretalk]

I have seen posted in many threads, to the point where it seems to have become an accepted fact, that Maybin was a Juaron Draft pick 100%. Now I like everyone else have heard the reports the Jauron wanted Maybina and Modrak claims to have wanted Cushing – but do you believe everything you hear?

 

At the end of the 2008 Season Jauron was almost FIRED. He was a hair away from getting the Axe (so close so that halfway into 2009 he actually was canned). So, are we to believe that 4 ½ months later, the then “circle jerk of trust” went 100% with a lame duck coach who was sitting on the hottest of hot seats against the advice of the entire scouting staff? I don’t believe that one bit.

 

Now I don’t doubt Jauron wanting Maybin at all, but I do doubt the notion that Modrak was against selecting Maybin. Modrak may have had Cushing as BPA, but I bet he had Maybin as 2nd best BPA – a pick the staff has tried desperately to distance themselves from. There is no way that the scouting staff was trumped completely for the opinion of a coach everyone knew wouldn’t last another year or 2, Jauron defiantly had some backing from eh scouting staff in that draft room.

 

If Modrak was good at his job he would have had Maybin rated no higher than the 4th round. In that case, the “circle jerk of trust” decided to draft the highly un-recommended 4th round prospect that the lame duck halfway fired HC wants? Sorry if I don’t buy that scenario either.

 

Ok, so Modrak wanted Cushing…. Haven’t we heard this before? In 2004 he was part of the scouting staff hand picked by Donahoe to be head of scouting. That year that staff TRADED UP to select Losman. 2 years later in 2006, Modrak was reported to have wanted Cutler (this info, just like the Cushing info, came out AFTER the season). So Modrak had given up on Losman after 2 years, one of which was spent on the bench with a broken leg? Please – not buying it, no way he gave up on Losman that fast. Its also pretty fishy considering Cutler starts off his career on such a strong note – hindsight anyone? Again this Cutler news didn’t break until after the season. Fast forward to 2009 and its Cushing…”I wanted Cushing” Modrak says- again reported after the season, Oh what a coincidence that he is the ROY.

 

I bet if you asked him today who he wanted he would say “I wanted Mathews……”

Sorry but I am not buying it.

All a scouting staff can do is make recommendations ... Modrak was not the general manager nor the coach at any time since he was hired by the Bills.

 

Every single rumored report that came out of OBD even before the 2009 season was over implied that Modrak had Cushing rated as his pick for the team. However the defense that Coach Dick had us playing was not necessarily a good fit for Cushing and Coach Dick clearly wanted Mr. MayBE. You are soooo wrong to say that MayBEEEE would have otherwise been a 4th round pick because if you go back and pull up the draft-nik's predictions of the first round MayBEEEE was a first round pick in almost all forecasters opinions. No one had him falling to the 4th round, the reason MayBEEE came out was that he knew he was going to be picked by someone in the first round.

 

We will never know about Cutler v. Losman either.

 

Frankly, I have faith in Nix to sort out what's right and wrong with our scouting system but just like with the team this is going to take time. He has the GM power and if Modrak is the problem (I think most of us agree that he has to have had a major influence for all these drafts even if he didn't want MayBEEE or Losman.) then I think Nix will push him through the thin ice. However if our picks went counter to Modrak's recommendations and if his recommendations have panned out for other teams then we may seem around for a longer period of time.

 

None of us knows what goes on behind the curtain up on OBD so for anyone to claim they know what Modrak said or what influence he had is purely a guessing game..

 

All I know is that I am liking this year's picks so far and am not complaining about Wood or Levitre.

[KOKBILLS]

OK I think I can help out here...I'm pretty sure this is the way it goes cause this is the way Marv had it, and the way he set it up when he came here...

 

First and foremost no Player is considered unless they have a Grade that matches up favorably with where they are Picking...In this case, and in most cases, there are more than one Player with similar Grades...I think they like to get it down to 2-3 Players when they get on the clock...Then the debate begins...So just for the sake of argument lets say the Bills have Maybin, Orakpo, and Cushing with similar Grades, and now they are looking at one of those 3 (the Bills all but told the world they wanted to take a Pass Rushing DE/OLB at #11 Overall)...So sometimes there is no argument and the card goes right up (The GM, Head Coach and Scouting Head all agree)...But in this case the Bills really had no GM and if everyone remembers at that time it meant even more power to DJ...Add that to the fact that Marv had set it up so that the HC ALWAYS breaks a tie and it does not really matter if Modrak wanted Cush...If Jauron wanted Maybin, then Maybin would be the Pick by design...

 

What should not be lost in this blame game is that Modrak and his Scouts had a Grade that high on Maybin to start with...Cause I'm pretty sure they did or he would have never been considered...Keep in mind that Mike Mayock felt like Maybin was a borderline 1st Rounder but probably more like a 2nd Rounder...Mayock had him tied for 5th at OLB with Larry English (behind Curry, Orakpo, Cushing, and Matthews)...So it cannot be ignored that The Bills brilliant Scouting Staff had Maybin MUCH higher Rated than some...My feeling is if the Scouts do their job 1st and foremost then the door is not open for Dead Dick to walk though and make the ultimate terrible decision...So, IMHO, it's both Modrak AND Jauron that are to blame...

[PromoTheRobot]

95% of draft projections had maybin going somewhere in the 1st round (most predicted 2nd half of the round). Your contention that the team picked him 3 rounds too early is asinine - no one said he was a 4th round talent at the time.

 

i don't care what Modrak said, and it's irrelevant anyways. He should be fired as well, but Jauron made the maybin pick as head coach and de facto GM.

100% correct. Thoner conveniently forgets the tongue bath Maybin got from the likes of Kiper and McShay. Do I have to dig up the mock draft where McShay had Maybin going at #6 overall?

 

"Maybin is projected to be a solid mid-first round draft pick."

 

Draft Insiders: Aaron Maybin - Fastest Rising Pro Prospect

 

Packers Mock: Round 1: Aaron Maybin

 

Walters Football mock: Maybin to Denver at 18 (formerly at 13 to Redskins)

 

Do I need to continue?

 

PTR

Edited October 29, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[prissythecat]

 

 

If Modrak was good at his job he would have had Maybin rated no higher than the 4th round. In that case, the “circle jerk of trust” decided to draft the highly un-recommended 4th round prospect that the lame duck halfway fired HC wants? Sorry if I don’t buy that scenario either.

 

 

 

Which expert had Maybin rated as 4th round material? The Thoner7 report?

 

As mentioned by othe folks already, Maybin was projected as a 1st rounder by most of the gurus.

[PromoTheRobot]

At the end of the 2008 Season Jauron was almost FIRED. He was a hair away from getting the Axe (so close so that halfway into 2009 he actually was canned). So, are we to believe that 4 ½ months later, the then “circle jerk of trust” went 100% with a lame duck coach who was sitting on the hottest of hot seats against the advice of the entire scouting staff? I don’t believe that one bit.

Responding to you is an exercise in futility because of your 3rd grade comprehension level but I'll give it a crack. Jauron wasn't almost fired at the end of that season. He was given a 3 YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION!!! We wanted him fired. Jerry Sullivan wanted him fired. But Ralphie just gave him 9 million dollars!!! At that point in time he was going nowhere.

 

So no it's not unbelievable that Dick(less) had a lot of sway over draft picks. For one he had an iron-clad contract that said he was the guy, and two there was no real GM in place to lead the draft room. Levy left by then so the Bills were lead by a vague committee that must have included Jauron, Brandon, Nix, Wilson and Modrak.

 

So please stop making up history to back up your lame assertions. It was only two years ago. Most of us can remember that far back.

 

PTR

Edited October 29, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[Kelly the Dog]

Responding to you is an exercise in futility because of your 3rd grade comprehension level but I'll give it a crack. Jauron wasn't almost fired at the end of that season. He was given a 3 YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION!!! We wanted him fired. Jerry Sullivan wanted him fired. But Ralphie just gave him 9 million dollars!!! At that point in time he was going nowhere.

 

So no it's not unbelievable that Dick(less) had a lot of sway over draft picks. For one he had an iron-clad contract that said he was the guy, and two there was no real GM in place to lead the draft room. Levy left by then so the Bills were lead by a vague committee that must have included Jauron, Brandon, Nix, Wilson and Modrak.

 

So please stop making up history to back up your lame assertions. It was only two years ago. Most of us can remember that far back.

 

PTR

I think the extension was given to him after the quick start. There was some argument as to whether he had actually signed the extension yet, and there was some talk that perhaps Ralph could get away with firing him if he hadn't indeed signed the extension, because it obviously was premature. I don't think any of us know how close Jauron was or wasn't to being fired after that season. But it SURELY wasn't rosy between him and Ralph. It was obvious there was a total collapse, and the start was an aberration. He probably had already signed the extension, or Ralph simply could not go back on his word just because Jauron hadn't signed it, and was stuck with the handshake agreement.

 

In reality, he was closer to being fired than getting an extension at that point in time. If they hadn't made the agreement back in week four or five, he easily, or even likely would have been fired.

 

That said, you're right that Jauron had huge say and sway over draft picks. He was reportedly the one making the selections. If he wanted Maybin, Maybin was the guy. If Modrak wanted Cushing, maybin was the guy if Jauron wanted him.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[rpcolosi]

I have seen posted in many threads, to the point where it seems to have become an accepted fact, that Maybin was a Juaron Draft pick 100%. Now I like everyone else have heard the reports the Jauron wanted Maybina and Modrak claims to have wanted Cushing – but do you believe everything you hear?

 

At the end of the 2008 Season Jauron was almost FIRED. He was a hair away from getting the Axe (so close so that halfway into 2009 he actually was canned). So, are we to believe that 4 ½ months later, the then “circle jerk of trust” went 100% with a lame duck coach who was sitting on the hottest of hot seats against the advice of the entire scouting staff? I don’t believe that one bit.

 

Now I don’t doubt Jauron wanting Maybin at all, but I do doubt the notion that Modrak was against selecting Maybin. Modrak may have had Cushing as BPA, but I bet he had Maybin as 2nd best BPA – a pick the staff has tried desperately to distance themselves from. There is no way that the scouting staff was trumped completely for the opinion of a coach everyone knew wouldn’t last another year or 2, Jauron defiantly had some backing from eh scouting staff in that draft room.

 

If Modrak was good at his job he would have had Maybin rated no higher than the 4th round. In that case, the “circle jerk of trust” decided to draft the highly un-recommended 4th round prospect that the lame duck halfway fired HC wants? Sorry if I don’t buy that scenario either.

 

Ok, so Modrak wanted Cushing…. Haven’t we heard this before? In 2004 he was part of the scouting staff hand picked by Donahoe to be head of scouting. That year that staff TRADED UP to select Losman. 2 years later in 2006, Modrak was reported to have wanted Cutler (this info, just like the Cushing info, came out AFTER the season). So Modrak had given up on Losman after 2 years, one of which was spent on the bench with a broken leg? Please – not buying it, no way he gave up on Losman that fast. Its also pretty fishy considering Cutler starts off his career on such a strong note – hindsight anyone? Again this Cutler news didn’t break until after the season. Fast forward to 2009 and its Cushing…”I wanted Cushing” Modrak says- again reported after the season, Oh what a coincidence that he is the ROY.

 

I bet if you asked him today who he wanted he would say “I wanted Mathews……”

Sorry but I am not buying it.

 

 

 

the losman year they are on record as saying they wanted rothelisberger, and when they didnt get him they knew they needed a qb prospect so they gambled on losman. that sounds consistent with donahoe and his splashy draft picks, not modrak. and i dont doubt most teams having losman ranked as the 4 qb. its just unfortunate he had horrible coaching and didnt work out. its possible iwth chan or martz or someone hed be in the league still.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think the extension was given to him after the quick start. There was some argument as to whether he had actually signed the extension yet, and there was some talk that perhaps Ralph could get away with firing him if he hadn't indeed signed the extension, because it obviously was premature. I don't think any of us know how close Jauron was or wasn't to being fired after that season. But it SURELY wasn't rosy between him and Ralph. It was obvious there was a total collapse, and the start was an aberration. He probably had already signed the extension, or Ralph simply could not go back on his word just because Jauron hadn't signed it, and was stuck with the handshake agreement.

 

In reality, he was closer to being fired than getting an extension at that point in time. If they hadn't made the agreement back in week four or five, he easily, or even likely would have been fired.

 

That said, you're right that Jauron had huge say and sway over draft picks. He was reportedly the one making the selections. If he wanted Maybin, Maybin was the guy. If Modrak wanted Cushing, maybin was the guy if Jauron wanted him.

No question Jauron was on the hot seat...to a point. But Ralph hates wasting money and that contract was signed mid-season, though the Bills tried to hide that fact for a while when it was obvious the move blew up in their faces. At that point in time, Dick(less) was relatively safe and he still had more muscle than anyone else in the draft room.

 

PTR

[nodnarb]

I've read it in a few reliable places, and have heard it confirmed by someone who received an email from somebody inside the organization that yes, Jauron is the guy who used his last "chip" to get the guy that he believed would put them over the edge on defense. I don't know how high Modrak/scouts were on him, but Jauron was given the benefit of the doubt on that pick. Thanks, *Dick*. Interestingly, one of DJ's final moves in Chicago was to select a DE from Penn State in the 1st round who also busted. (Michael Haynes)

 

Just say NO to Penn State defensive linemen.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I finally get it dudes. His name kind of looks like the word 'maybe,' which is hilarious because 'maybe' he'll produce! Its like 'Loseman," but even funnier! Now that we've figured out the secret to endless humor, let's use it a little more sparingly to preserve the comic timing, no?

[Thoner7]

Responding to you is an exercise in futility because of your 3rd grade comprehension level but I'll give it a crack. Jauron wasn't almost fired at the end of that season. He was given a 3 YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION!!! We wanted him fired. Jerry Sullivan wanted him fired. But Ralphie just gave him 9 million dollars!!! At that point in time he was going nowhere.

 

So no it's not unbelievable that Dick(less) had a lot of sway over draft picks. For one he had an iron-clad contract that said he was the guy, and two there was no real GM in place to lead the draft room. Levy left by then so the Bills were lead by a vague committee that must have included Jauron, Brandon, Nix, Wilson and Modrak.

 

So please stop making up history to back up your lame assertions. It was only two years ago. Most of us can remember that far back.

 

PTR

 

Get your facts straight. The extension as durign the 4-1 start. There was much deliberation about him being fired at the END of the season

 

I think this is more-or-less true, but I don't see that fitting either answer of your poll question.

 

Then its yes, as he must of supported the drafting of Maybin as he was his second BPA

 

95% of draft projections had maybin going somewhere in the 1st round (most predicted 2nd half of the round). Your contention that the team picked him 3 rounds too early is asinine - no one said he was a 4th round talent at the time.

 

i don't care what Modrak said, and it's irrelevant anyways. He should be fired as well, but Jauron made the maybin pick as head coach and de facto GM.

 

Mayock had Maybin as the 4th best 3-4 OLB. He didn’t even grade him as a DE as he said he 100% could never play that position in the NFL.

 

Now he didn’t grade him in one round or another – but look at that draft. Guess where the 4th best 3-4 OLB gets drafted- THE FORTH ROUND.

 

Is it that asinine? What IS asinine is taking McShay’s word over evidence to the contrary.

 

 

All a scouting staff can do is make recommendations ... Modrak was not the general manager nor the coach at any time since he was hired by the Bills.

 

Every single rumored report that came out of OBD even before the 2009 season was over implied that Modrak had Cushing rated as his pick for the team. However the defense that Coach Dick had us playing was not necessarily a good fit for Cushing and Coach Dick clearly wanted Mr. MayBE. You are soooo wrong to say that MayBEEEE would have otherwise been a 4th round pick because if you go back and pull up the draft-nik's predictions of the first round MayBEEEE was a first round pick in almost all forecasters opinions. No one had him falling to the 4th round, the reason MayBEEE came out was that he knew he was going to be picked by someone in the first round.

 

We will never know about Cutler v. Losman either.

 

Frankly, I have faith in Nix to sort out what's right and wrong with our scouting system but just like with the team this is going to take time. He has the GM power and if Modrak is the problem (I think most of us agree that he has to have had a major influence for all these drafts even if he didn't want MayBEEE or Losman.) then I think Nix will push him through the thin ice. However if our picks went counter to Modrak's recommendations and if his recommendations have panned out for other teams then we may seem around for a longer period of time.

 

None of us knows what goes on behind the curtain up on OBD so for anyone to claim they know what Modrak said or what influence he had is purely a guessing game..

 

All I know is that I am liking this year's picks so far and am not complaining about Wood or Levitre.

 

I realize it’s a guessing game. But If I walked over and threw my computer out the window, do you really have to be there to know it hits the ground? Doesn’t reasonable logic tell you that it does?

 

100% correct. Thoner conveniently forgets the tongue bath Maybin got from the likes of Kiper and McShay. Do I have to dig up the mock draft where McShay had Maybin going at #6 overall?

 

"Maybin is projected to be a solid mid-first round draft pick."

 

Draft Insiders: Aaron Maybin - Fastest Rising Pro Prospect

 

Packers Mock: Round 1: Aaron Maybin

 

Walters Football mock: Maybin to Denver at 18 (formerly at 13 to Redskins)

 

Do I need to continue?

 

PTR

 

Ok PTR. Show me one piece of evidence from a credible source. A $10 godaddy website doesn’t make you a draft expert. Kiper and McShay are your other evidence? Thanks for making my argument for me. Mayock is the only credible media guy out there – as evidenced by his track record vrs the other guys. He had Maybin way down on his board. (see above) If you could drum up one single credible source, like a GM, Former GM (not Matt Millen), someone who knows something, maybe you would have an argument. But that’s just another giant swing and a miss….

 

Seriously, does anyone remember the media “experts” loving a guy name George Selvie? He was a “top 10 lock” his Sophomore year. 2 years later he goes in the 7th round. Did he get that much worse or was he never that good? That’s what happened here with Maybin. One good statistical year, idiots like McShay say he is a top 10 pick, other idiots on EPSN regurgitate it, other idiots with $10 websites copy McShay/Kiper, Juaron and the rest of the FO apparently fell for it.

[Fan in San Diego]

My problem with that draft isn't so much that they took Maybin. It was that Arakpo was still on the board, they could have had Arakpo! He is monster of a physical specimen compared to Maybin, passing on Arakpo is unforgivable! Ralph should have fired anyone associated with that draft decision because they are retarded.

[pimp on da' net]

Either way, Modrak has to wonder how thin the ice is.

 

Maybe Modrak doesn't want the job? He didn't want to be GM, when it was offered after TD and doesn't have it to be a full time scout. Hell he's prob wondering after his record since being here, what does it take to get fired? Or the key maybe just stay away from OBD on a daily basis and keep your mouth shout, there's know accountability obviously.

Edited October 29, 2010 by pimp on da' net

[Punch]

There was much deliberation about him being fired at the END of the season

Amongst whom... fans?

 

If you're privy to the backroom deliberations at One Bills Drive then you probably have access to other information, such as whether Jauron or Modrak are primarily responsible for drafting Maybin. Why start a poll, then?

 

Maybin was a terrible draft pick. Nix and company have publicly stated they will not make draft picks of that inexperienced and overhyped ilk. Until they do, I'll go with other TSW posters with actuall knowledge of the process and believe Dick Jauron had the final say about taking Maybin.

[pimp on da' net]

Which expert had Maybin rated as 4th round material? The Thoner7 report?

 

As mentioned by othe folks already, Maybin was projected as a 1st rounder by most of the gurus.

I do recall him rated as a 3rd OLB by sporting news, didn't see anything lower than that but most consensus followed with code words boom or bust and project. Either way Buffalo went against the norm in respect to drafting a one year wonder, who wasn't gonna start for PS if not for the injury to M. Evans

[Thoner7]

Amongst whom... fans?

 

If you're privy to the backroom deliberations at One Bills Drive then you probably have access to other information, such as whether Jauron or Modrak are primarily responsible for drafting Maybin. Why start a poll, then?

 

Maybin was a terrible draft pick. Nix and company have publicly stated they will not make draft picks of that inexperienced and overhyped ilk. Until they do, I'll go with other TSW posters with actuall knowledge of the process and believe Dick Jauron had the final say about taking Maybin.

From EPSN and NFLN?

 

Did you miss the week+ long topics about the deliberation and the insider discussions from Schefter/Mortensen/Clayton??? – it was all over TV.

[Punch]

From EPSN and NFLN?

 

Did you miss the week+ long topics about the deliberation and the insider discussions from Schefter/Mortensen/Clayton??? – it was all over TV.

You're implying the Bills were considering it--- I would've fired him and I'm sure 99% of those at TSW would as well. But whatever was said on ESPN was speculation about what they should do and has no bearing on what the Bills were discussing behind the scenes.

[dave mcbride]

I'd say look at the track record of both. When with Pitt and Philly, Modrak didn't draft undersized DEs who needed to be converted to LB.

 

At Philly, he drafted McNabb in his first year (1999) and Corey Simon in the first round in his second draft. Simon and McNabb both dominated for multiple years at the college level. In 01, he drafted Freddie Mitchell in the first. Mitchell was a bust, but he was in fact quite productive in college. He had a huge senior year, a pretty decent junior year, and a promising sophomore year cut short in game 4 by a broken leg (after racking up over 100 yards receiving vs. Texas).

 

He didn't have final say in Pitt, but it is in fact the case that Pitt had a penchant for drafting big, tough LBs and stout DEs over the time he was there. He also landed Derrick Burgess in the third round in 01 while at Philly (where he presumably had final say).

 

When he was at Chicago, Jauron presumably didn't have final say (particularly in his final season - 2003), but he was the coach when another Penn State DE with big sack numbers was drafted - Michael Haynes. Plus it is the case that Jauron favored smaller guys and got rid of more stout LBs in Buffalo.

 

I don't think the criticism of Modrak holds in this case.

[Punch]

I'd say look at the track record of both. When with Pitt and Philly, Modrak didn't draft undersized DEs who needed to be converted to LB.

 

At Philly, he drafted McNabb in his first year (1999) and Corey Simon in the first round in his second draft. Simon and McNabb both dominated for multiple years at the college level. In 01, he drafted Freddie Mitchell in the first. Mitchell was a bust, but he was in fact quite productive in college. He had a huge senior year, a pretty decent junior year, and a promising sophomore year cut short in game 4 by a broken leg (after racking up over 100 yards receiving vs. Texas).

 

He didn't have final say in Pitt, but it is in fact the case that Pitt had a penchant for drafting big, tough LBs and stout DEs over the time he was there. He also landed Derrick Burgess in the third round in 01 while at Philly (where he presumably had final say).

 

When he was at Chicago, Jauron presumably didn't have final say (particularly in his final season - 2003), but he was the coach when another Penn State DE with big sack numbers was drafted - Michael Haynes. Plus it is the case that Jauron favored smaller guys and got rid of more stout LBs in Buffalo.

 

I don't think the criticism of Modrak holds in this case.

That's all true--- Aaron Maybin fit the exact description for quick, undersized D-linemen coveted by Dick Jauron's Tampa 2 defense.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Ok PTR. Show me one piece of evidence from a credible source. A $10 godaddy website doesn't make you a draft expert. Kiper and McShay are your other evidence? Thanks for making my argument for me. Mayock is the only credible media guy out there – as evidenced by his track record vrs the other guys. He had Maybin way down on his board. (see above) If you could drum up one single credible source, like a GM, Former GM (not Matt Millen), someone who knows something, maybe you would have an argument. But that's just another giant swing and a miss….

 

Seriously, does anyone remember the media "experts" loving a guy name George Selvie? He was a "top 10 lock" his Sophomore year. 2 years later he goes in the 7th round. Did he get that much worse or was he never that good? That's what happened here with Maybin. One good statistical year, idiots like McShay say he is a top 10 pick, other idiots on EPSN regurgitate it, other idiots with $10 websites copy McShay/Kiper, Juaron and the rest of the FO apparently fell for it.

Rick Gosselin. One of the very best.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/041109dnspomockdraft.24fa77e.html

Walterfootball is a decent one. had him at 18.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

nbc sports had him at #9

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28774609/

SI Don Banks had him 15

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/01/22/mock2/index.html

 

I could go on.

 

The Selvie example is just plain stupid. There are players like that every year who two years earlier were thought to be one of the top picks overall. Look at Brian Brohm.

[polish lover]

I have seen posted in many threads, to the point where it seems to have become an accepted fact, that Maybin was a Juaron Draft pick 100%. Now I like everyone else have heard the reports the Jauron wanted Maybina and Modrak claims to have wanted Cushing – but do you believe everything you hear?

 

At the end of the 2008 Season Jauron was almost FIRED. He was a hair away from getting the Axe (so close so that halfway into 2009 he actually was canned). So, are we to believe that 4 ½ months later, the then “circle jerk of trust” went 100% with a lame duck coach who was sitting on the hottest of hot seats against the advice of the entire scouting staff? I don’t believe that one bit.

 

Now I don’t doubt Jauron wanting Maybin at all, but I do doubt the notion that Modrak was against selecting Maybin. Modrak may have had Cushing as BPA, but I bet he had Maybin as 2nd best BPA – a pick the staff has tried desperately to distance themselves from. There is no way that the scouting staff was trumped completely for the opinion of a coach everyone knew wouldn’t last another year or 2, Jauron defiantly had some backing from eh scouting staff in that draft room.

 

If Modrak was good at his job he would have had Maybin rated no higher than the 4th round. In that case, the “circle jerk of trust” decided to draft the highly un-recommended 4th round prospect that the lame duck halfway fired HC wants? Sorry if I don’t buy that scenario either.

 

Ok, so Modrak wanted Cushing…. Haven’t we heard this before? In 2004 he was part of the scouting staff hand picked by Donahoe to be head of scouting. That year that staff TRADED UP to select Losman. 2 years later in 2006, Modrak was reported to have wanted Cutler (this info, just like the Cushing info, came out AFTER the season). So Modrak had given up on Losman after 2 years, one of which was spent on the bench with a broken leg? Please – not buying it, no way he gave up on Losman that fast. Its also pretty fishy considering Cutler starts off his career on such a strong note – hindsight anyone? Again this Cutler news didn’t break until after the season. Fast forward to 2009 and its Cushing…”I wanted Cushing” Modrak says- again reported after the season, Oh what a coincidence that he is the ROY.

 

I bet if you asked him today who he wanted he would say “I wanted Mathews……”

Sorry but I am not buying it.

 

 

Based on your post, you don't really understand what Modrak does. Modrak is the head of scouting. He organizes his team of 20 guys who go around and scout out college players. They then use a rating system to rank the various players based on various categories: intelligence, athletic ability, size, intangibles etc. Then a huge list of all the draft eligible players, all ranked and sorted by position is presented to the GM and Head coach. The GM and Head coach and often Ralph then take a look at the top ranked players still on the board when it comes to their time to pick and they try to make some kind of judgement call. At this spot there is no QB worthy of the pick but there are two DE's that have potential. Do we take this guy who has great physical speed but less experience or do we take this guy who is big and tough but has less athleticism? Jauron and Brandon decided to go with Maybin. Not Modrak. Modrak does not make the picks he evaluates the players. The problem is that the guys making the picks were Brandon who is not a football guy and Jauron who clearly had no clue about any position but secondary. The only time I would blame Modrak is when they take a guy like McCargo in the first round who was generally not considered 1st round talent by any other team. That falls on Modrak and his staff.

 

I'd say look at the track record of both. When with Pitt and Philly, Modrak didn't draft undersized DEs who needed to be converted to LB.

 

At Philly, he drafted McNabb in his first year (1999) and Corey Simon in the first round in his second draft. Simon and McNabb both dominated for multiple years at the college level. In 01, he drafted Freddie Mitchell in the first. Mitchell was a bust, but he was in fact quite productive in college. He had a huge senior year, a pretty decent junior year, and a promising sophomore year cut short in game 4 by a broken leg (after racking up over 100 yards receiving vs. Texas).

 

He didn't have final say in Pitt, but it is in fact the case that Pitt had a penchant for drafting big, tough LBs and stout DEs over the time he was there. He also landed Derrick Burgess in the third round in 01 while at Philly (where he presumably had final say).

 

When he was at Chicago, Jauron presumably didn't have final say (particularly in his final season - 2003), but he was the coach when another Penn State DE with big sack numbers was drafted - Michael Haynes. Plus it is the case that Jauron favored smaller guys and got rid of more stout LBs in Buffalo.

 

I don't think the criticism of Modrak holds in this case.

 

 

Modrak doesn't draft anyone, he does player evaluations and then the HC and GM decide which guys to pick. They may talk to Modrak about a player if they need more info but the call is made by the GM and HC and sometimes ralph.

[dave mcbride]

Modrak doesn't draft anyone, he does player evaluations and then the HC and GM decide which guys to pick. They may talk to Modrak about a player if they need more info but the call is made by the GM and HC and sometimes ralph.

Modrak did draft people in Philly. He was the GM.

[PromoTheRobot]

Get your facts straight. The extension as durign the 4-1 start. There was much deliberation about him being fired at the END of the season

Gee, maybe you are only at a 2nd grade comprehension level? Of course he got the extension after going 5-1 (not 4-1) but he still had a 3-year extension at the end of the season, didn't he? What's so hard to understand?

Then its yes, as he must of supported the drafting of Maybin as he was his second BPA. Mayock had Maybin as the 4th best 3-4 OLB. He didn’t even grade him as a DE as he said he 100% could never play that position in the NFL. Now he didn’t grade him in one round or another – but look at that draft. Guess where the 4th best 3-4 OLB gets drafted- THE FORTH ROUND.

Mayock's 2009 mock draft showing the Bills taking Mabin at #11

McShay & Kiper mock have Maybin going at 9 or 10

 

Anymore inaccuracies you want me to clean up?

 

Ok PTR. Show me one piece of evidence from a credible source. A $10 godaddy website doesn’t make you a draft expert. Kiper and McShay are your other evidence? Thanks for making my argument for me. Mayock is the only credible media guy out there.

Mayock is pretty good I will admit but there are a dozen people besides Kiper and McShay that are on major networks and websites, and most of them had Maybin going round one. You can't change the truth.

 

NBC Sports - Maybin at 9

Sporting News-Albert Breer - Maybin at 13

Sporting News-Dave Curtis - Maybin at 13

Sporting News-Vinnie Iyer - Maybin at 11

 

Pick 30. Titans Aaron Maybin DE Penn State

 

Charles Davis: "He's an edge rusher. Every year it screams receiver for the Titans, and they never do it in the first round. I'm going to take Maybin at this point."

The experts weigh in ...

Mike Mayock: "Can he play in that scheme?"

Charles Davis: "He's going to have to now, I just picked him. Otherwise I'm getting fired. I'm bringing him in to rush the passer."

Mike Mayock: "I have less of a problem with him at No. 30."

Charles Davis: 'Lock him in the weight room, get him a little bigger, give me a couple years with him and turn him loose."

 

Gee...even your pal Mayock is okay with Maybin at 30. You know, the guy who according to you is the only credible media guy? FTW! Thoner, you can't make crap up and then not expect to be called out on it.

 

PTR

Edited October 29, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[Charles Romes]

Russ Brandon drafted Maybin.

 

Right before the 09 draft Brandon was at the peak of his power, having been formally given the GM title. Maybin was another step in the Russ Brandon regionalization plan. Look East: Training camp in Rochester. Look North: The Toronto series. Where else to market? Northern Pa. I'm sure everyone remembers how quickly that corny video of Poz hamming it up with Maybin went up after the draft. I'm sure a lot of other players were in the mix with Maybin, but his Penn State connection tipped the balance in his favor. There are over 100,000 fans that flock to every Penn State home game from Northern and Western PA, and the Southern tier, a fact not overlooked by the organization and Brandon in particular.

[dave mcbride]

Russ Brandon drafted Maybin.

 

Right before the 09 draft Brandon was at the peak of his power, having been formally given the GM title. Maybin was another step in the Russ Brandon regionalization plan. Look East: Training camp in Rochester. Look North: The Toronto series. Where else to market? Northern Pa. I'm sure everyone remembers how quickly that corny video of Poz hamming it up with Maybin went up after the draft. I'm sure a lot of other players were in the mix with Maybin, but his Penn State connection tipped the balance in his favor. There are over 100,000 fans that flock to every Penn State home game from Northern and Western PA, and the Southern tier, a fact not overlooked by the organization and Brandon in particular.

This is an excellent point.

[Thoner7]

Gee, maybe you are only at a 2nd grade comprehension level? Of course he got the extension after going 5-1 (not 4-1) but he still had a 3-year extension at the end of the season, didn't he? What's so hard to understand?

 

Mayock's 2009 mock draft showing the Bills taking Mabin at #11

McShay & Kiper mock have Maybin going at 9 or 10

 

Anymore inaccuracies you want me to clean up?

 

 

Mayock is pretty good I will admit but there are a dozen people besides Kiper and McShay that are on major networks and websites, and most of them had Maybin going round one. You can't change the truth.

 

NBC Sports - Maybin at 9

Sporting News-Albert Breer - Maybin at 13

Sporting News-Dave Curtis - Maybin at 13

Sporting News-Vinnie Iyer - Maybin at 11

 

Pick 30. Titans Aaron Maybin DE Penn State

 

Charles Davis: "He's an edge rusher. Every year it screams receiver for the Titans, and they never do it in the first round. I'm going to take Maybin at this point."

The experts weigh in ...

Mike Mayock: "Can he play in that scheme?"

Charles Davis: "He's going to have to now, I just picked him. Otherwise I'm getting fired. I'm bringing him in to rush the passer."

Mike Mayock: "I have less of a problem with him at No. 30."

Charles Davis: 'Lock him in the weight room, get him a little bigger, give me a couple years with him and turn him loose."

 

Gee...even your pal Mayock is okay with Maybin at 30. You know, the guy who according to you is the only credible media guy? FTW! Thoner, you can't make crap up and then not expect to be called out on it.

 

PTR

 

Charles Davis - another non expert .

 

"I have less of a problem with Maybin at 30" - Implying he still has a problem with Maybin at 30. That comment right there solidifies Mayock’s stance that Maybin was not a 1st round talent in Mayock’s eyes. Man am I glad you aren't my lawyer. Further still you cannot refute that Maybin was Mayocks 4th best 34 OLB and the number of 3-4 OLBs that were drafted, lasting into the 4th round.

 

From the week of the draft:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

 

EXCUSE ME!!! I was WRONG!!! Maybin was tied for 5th best OLB! My mistake

[PromoTheRobot]

Charles Davis - another non expert .

 

"I have less of a problem with Maybin at 30" - Implying he still has a problem with Maybin at 30. That comment right there solidifies Mayock’s stance that Maybin was not a 1st round talent in Mayock’s eyes. Man am I glad you aren't my lawyer. Further still you cannot refute that Maybin was Mayocks 4th best 34 OLB and the number of 3-4 OLBs that were drafted, lasting into the 4th round.

 

From the week of the draft:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

 

EXCUSE ME!!! I was WRONG!!! Maybin was tied for 5th best OLB! My mistake

There's a huge gulf between #30 overall and 4th-5th round which you are claiming. Oh, and way to go ignoring all my other links.

 

PTR

Edited October 29, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Russ Brandon drafted Maybin.

 

Right before the 09 draft Brandon was at the peak of his power, having been formally given the GM title. Maybin was another step in the Russ Brandon regionalization plan. Look East: Training camp in Rochester. Look North: The Toronto series. Where else to market? Northern Pa. I'm sure everyone remembers how quickly that corny video of Poz hamming it up with Maybin went up after the draft. I'm sure a lot of other players were in the mix with Maybin, but his Penn State connection tipped the balance in his favor. There are over 100,000 fans that flock to every Penn State home game from Northern and Western PA, and the Southern tier, a fact not overlooked by the organization and Brandon in particular.

 

 

This, unfortunately, makes a lot of sense.

[PromoTheRobot]

This, unfortunately, makes a lot of sense.

No it doesn't. Not in the least. If it were true, where is the big surge in season ticket sales?

 

PTR

[It's in My Blood]

Even if Modrak really wanted Cushing and wanted Cutler , it still doesn't change my opinion of him. Cushing's a a cheater and Cutler is probably the most overrated QB in the league. If Modrak came out and said he wanted to draft Oher or Orakpo , then ok , maybe.

[Simon]

Charles Davis - another non expert .

 

I'm not getting into the Maybin crap, except to say that he's a wonderful example of what happens when you draft for need. But you should be aware that along with Mike Mayock, Charles Davis has been one of the best informed talking heads for several years now. Don't dismiss the guy because you're not familiar with him, he's wildly underrated and very, very good.