A few thoughs/facts

[Estro]

Last night I began a "General Manager and NFL Scouting" online course through smww.com. Part of the course involves weekly chats with John Wooten, who has a long and decorated career in the NFL, both as a player and an NFL executive.

 

I had the chance to ask him his honest opinion of the Buddy Nix/Chan Gailey combo up in Buffalo. His response was something like this:

 

"Buddy Nix at 70 is a spring chicken compared to their owner. The hire of Chan Gailey really had me shaking my head. He flamed out with the Cowboys, flamed out with Georgia Tech, and flamed out as an offensive coordinator.....I'm wondering what the Bills think will be different this time around. I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him. Don't forget he had that Vikings team on the verge of going to the SuperBowl, despite the offense turning the ball over 5 times. So basically that's my answer to what I think of the Nix/Gailey combo in Buffalo, I hope you understand that."

 

Although I figured his comments would be a bit harsh, I was hoping for some more insight on Nix, but I'm not sure that he ever crossed paths with Nix during his career, which I wasn't able to ask him.

 

Another few interesting tidbits that John Wooten provided:

 

- The NFL offered the NFL's Player Union (NFLPA) a one time $100 million payment into their pension plan and in return the NFL would be allowed to implement a rookie wage scale for this upcoming 2010 NFL draft. He said the NFLPA rejected the offer and that the deal is off the table. Said the NFL knows their pension plan is lacking behind those of the NBA and MLB and wants to get it up to speed, but they really want to start a rookie wage scale. Said the whole mess with Crabtree wanting to be paid like the #5 pick even though he was the #10 pick was a joke, and he's in big time favor of a rookie wage scale.

 

- The Dallas Cowboys will think long and hard about signing Brandon Marshall to an offer sheet. Miles Austin had a great season, but the Cowboys can't expect that from him in the years to come as he's not a great athlete. If they can become comfortable with Brandon Marshall as a person, they will highly consider signing him to an offer sheet.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

- The Dallas Cowboys will think long and hard about signing Brandon Marshall to an offer sheet. Miles Austin had a great season, but the Cowboys can't expect that from him in the years to come as he's not a great athlete. If they can become comfortable with Brandon Marshall as a person, they will highly consider signing him to an offer sheet.

With the final 8 rule will they have enough cash to be able to?

[BillsVet]

I can see it already from the homer, schlub, off-season Super Bowl fans:

 

1. Who is John Wooten? He's an idiot.

2. Gailey didn't have enough time in Dallas to flame out. Jerry Jones said he should not have fired him when he did.

3. Georgia Tech doesn't get the players to be a top team. It's not Gailey's fault.

4. Nix is a Top 5 talent evaluator. his age doesn't matter.

5. Leslie Frazier hasn't been hired for a reason. He just doesn't have HC experience like Nix wanted.

6. I like the way Buffalo is rebuilding-no wasted money in free agency.

 

For the record, John Wooten's background can be found here.

[gobillsinytown]

"Buddy Nix at 70 is a spring chicken compared to their owner. The hire of Chan Gailey really had me shaking my head. He flamed out with the Cowboys, flamed out with Georgia Tech, and flamed out as an offensive coordinator.....I'm wondering what the Bills think will be different this time around. I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him. Don't forget he had that Vikings team on the verge of going to the SuperBowl, despite the offense turning the ball over 5 times. So basically that's my answer to what I think of the Nix/Gailey combo in Buffalo, I hope you understand that."

 

There are a lot of very opinionated people in the NFL, and a lot of opinionated people who cover the league, or who used to work for the league. For this guy to publicly state this indicates to me that he had a bad or no relationship with either Nix or Gailey.

In 1986, I clearly remember league people and the media, including local media, bashing the hiring of Marv Levy. I live an hour away from Cleveland. When Belicheck was head coach, the Browns were awful and the fans and media cheered when he left. So this is a sport which has passionate fans, and employees who work incredibly hard and are very passionate about what they do. Does it mean they're always right? No.

[CodeMonkey]

"Buddy Nix at 70 is a spring chicken compared to their owner. The hire of Chan Gailey really had me shaking my head. He flamed out with the Cowboys, flamed out with Georgia Tech, and flamed out as an offensive coordinator.....I'm wondering what the Bills think will be different this time around. I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him. Don't forget he had that Vikings team on the verge of going to the SuperBowl, despite the offense turning the ball over 5 times. So basically that's my answer to what I think of the Nix/Gailey combo in Buffalo, I hope you understand that."

That is well said in my opinion and sums up my feelings on the situation. No reason to start calling for Chans head on a platter yet, but it did have me shaking my head at the time as well.

[Estro]

With the final 8 rule will they have enough cash to be able to?

 

 

To be honest I'm not sure and I'm not sure if John Wooten was as he made no mentnion of it.

 

I also find it funny that now Jerry Jones is saying he's "worried" they could lose Miles Austin to a team that signs him to an offer sheet (which would require giving up a 1st and 3rd round pick). I don't think any team would be crazy enough to give that up for a WR who had one very good year in a pass happy offense. It's almost as if he's trying to stir up some interest in Miles Austin hoping someone will pony up a lot to get him.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...pill-minefield/

[Estro]

"Buddy Nix at 70 is a spring chicken compared to their owner. The hire of Chan Gailey really had me shaking my head. He flamed out with the Cowboys, flamed out with Georgia Tech, and flamed out as an offensive coordinator.....I'm wondering what the Bills think will be different this time around. I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him. Don't forget he had that Vikings team on the verge of going to the SuperBowl, despite the offense turning the ball over 5 times. So basically that's my answer to what I think of the Nix/Gailey combo in Buffalo, I hope you understand that."

 

There are a lot of very opinionated people in the NFL, and a lot of opinionated people who cover the league, or who used to work for the league. For this guy to publicly state this indicates to me that he had a bad or no relationship with either Nix or Gailey.

In 1986, I clearly remember league people and the media, including local media, bashing the hiring of Marv Levy. I live an hour away from Cleveland. When Belicheck was head coach, the Browns were awful and the fans and media cheered when he left. So this is a sport which has passionate fans, and employees who work incredibly hard and are very passionate about what they do. Does it mean they're always right? No.

 

 

I agree, he may not know the two guys well enough to have an informed opinion. I was hoping for a glowing review of Nix to be honest, but it wasn't served up that way. You can't just disregard what he said either, I think most people around the league had the same reaction.

[dpberr]

I don't see how Chan Gailey flamed out. That's total BS.

 

In two seasons, had a winning record, two playoff appearances, one division title.

 

Where did the flame-out exactly start?

[gobillsinytown]

I agree, he may not know the two guys well enough to have an informed opinion. I was hoping for a glowing review of Nix to be honest, but it wasn't served up that way. You can't just disregard what he said either, I think most people around the league had the same reaction.

 

Of all the opinions I heard/read, my guess is that the reaction was about 60/40 negative. Jerry Jones of all people said that the biggest mistake he made as an owner was firing Gailey. So to me that indicates that it's too complicated to call it a bad hire yet. Gailey has been successful in some phases of his career and unsuccessful in others.

When you have the combination of owner-front office-coaching staff-players, all trying to win in an incredibly competitive sport with a lot of money on the line, there are too many things that can go wrong to blame it on one guy. That's why you see the tendency for coaches and front office people to hire people they know and are comfortable with, which is the case with Nix and Gailey. Homegren's doing the same thing in Cleveland. Shannahan will do the same thing in Washington, if Snyder stays out of his way.

The one thing you can say about Nix and Gailey is that they are experienced football guys. Hopefully that translates to some winning.

[Malazan]

I stopped reading at I paid for a GM and scouting course.

[CodeMonkey]

I don't see how Chan Gailey flamed out. That's total BS.

 

In two seasons, had a winning record, two playoff appearances, one division title.

 

Where did the flame-out exactly start?

At Dallas by most accounts he inherited a fairly decent team.

1998 he went 10-6 and lost in the first round of the playoffs.

1999 he went 8-8 and somehow made it to the playoffs, and again lost in the first round.

 

So in his 2 years at Dallas, where player wise he was able to hit the ground running, combined he was 18-14 or 0.563% and 0-2 in the playoffs. And the trend was downward. Jones stopped the bleeding.

 

GT bought out his contract they were so desperate to stop their bleeding.

 

Since he started his career coaching in 1974, the Bills make it by my count 11 teams. That seems like a lot to me. And excluding some division 2 success, nothing anyplace to write home about from what I've read.

 

I don't think "flame out" is too strong.

 

But he is our coach, and maybe working with Nix there will be the chemistry needed to make it "be different this time around". As Bills fans we can only hope so anyway.

[JohnC]

That is well said in my opinion and sums up my feelings on the situation. No reason to start calling for Chans head on a platter yet, but it did have me shaking my head at the time as well.

 

There is no one who can claim that Chan Gaily was an inspired hiring. That's okay. Buddy Nix was looking for a HC who had previous HCing experience and he wanted an offensive minded HC. Nix's criteria and reasoning for hiring Gaily was sound. Nix knows that coaching the Bills is going to be a very difficult challenge because the organization is in the midst of a rebuilding process. So going with an experienced HC makes sense.

 

At first, I wasn't particularly impressed with what I considered to be a typical retread selection. But having said that, the GM has to select the people he is comfortable with and who he feels is on the same philosophical page. Nix also hired Whaley who is relatively young and comes from a very successful franchise which has a lot of similar regional demographics. So it appears that Nix is looking for new talent and not merely relying on cronies.

 

What Nix has established is an organizational structure which is unified under him. There isn't a sense that the management structure is spread out with a lot of different nooks and crannies as it was with Levy and Brandon. If Nix fails or succeeds it is going to be done with his people, and that is how it should be.

[C.Biscuit97]

"Buddy Nix at 70 is a spring chicken compared to their owner. The hire of Chan Gailey really had me shaking my head. He flamed out with the Cowboys, flamed out with Georgia Tech, and flamed out as an offensive coordinator.....I'm wondering what the Bills think will be different this time around.

 

Jerry Jones said it was a mistake to fire Gailey and it was a team in transition, as their SB dynasty was dying.

 

The players who made GT a top 10 this year were players Gailey recruited. big difference having them as freshmen and Sophomores rather than juniors or seniors.

 

He's been to the playoffs 11 out of 14 seasons as NFL coach. IN KC, the offense was the best part of the tema when he was there. He had to use a 7th round pick at QB and produced some good #s. Haley was an offensive guy (and a douche) who wantedto make his own impact on the offense. With a QB they traded a 2nd for, they had a worse offense than Gailey did with Thigpen.

 

Seems a little misguided.

 

I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him. Don't forget he had that Vikings team on the verge of going to the SuperBowl, despite the offense turning the ball over 5 times. So basically that's my answer to what I think of the Nix/Gailey combo in Buffalo, I hope you understand that."

 

Maybe this is the reason for his criticisms. I like Frazier a lot but if he as good as this guy says, why has he been hired as a head coach yet?

 

- The Dallas Cowboys will think long and hard about signing Brandon Marshall to an offer sheet. Miles Austin had a great season, but the Cowboys can't expect that from him in the years to come as he's not a great athlete. If they can become comfortable with Brandon Marshall as a person, they will highly consider signing him to an offer sheet.

 

This makes no sense. You don't make the Cowboys as an undrafted FA out of Monmouth as a receiver if you aren't a great athlete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Austin

 

He holds one of the fastest electronic times for a WR coming out of college, with a 4.29 40 yard dash at Rutgers pro day as Monmouth didn't have a pro day.

 

 

Thanks for the insight thought. Time will tell.

[C.Biscuit97]

I can see it already from the homer, schlub, off-season Super Bowl fans:

 

1. Who is John Wooten? He's an idiot.

2. Gailey didn't have enough time in Dallas to flame out. Jerry Jones said he should not have fired him when he did.

3. Georgia Tech doesn't get the players to be a top team. It's not Gailey's fault.

4. Nix is a Top 5 talent evaluator. his age doesn't matter.

5. Leslie Frazier hasn't been hired for a reason. He just doesn't have HC experience like Nix wanted.

6. I like the way Buffalo is rebuilding-no wasted money in free agency.

 

For the record, John Wooten's background can be found here.

 

 

I can see it already from miserable, I hate my life so I'm gouing to B word on a Bills' message board, the Bills are teh worst team ever fans:

 

1) John Wooten is a god and everything he says should be taken as gospel.

 

2) Gailey is the reason Aikman had a concussion, why Irvin nearly got paralyzed, and the single reason the Cowboys didn't win more SBs.

 

3) Even though the players that made GT a top 10 this season were all recruited by Gailey, he sucks because they weren't top 10 when those guys were freshmen and sophs.

 

4) Polian is 67 and Nix is 70. Polian is a youngful, Nix is a grumpy old man.

 

5) Even though the Bills aren't the only team that has passed on Frazier, they are the dumbest because I hate them.

 

6) The only way to get better is to overpay in a crappy FA class.

 

It goes both ways. It's sad that as miserable as the Bills make you that you spend so much time here. But that's for another attempt to make others as miserable as you feel. You're the best.

[Lori]

I'm very biased to Leslie Frazier and I think the guy is a cross between Tony Dungy and Tom Landry. I believe he has all the makings to become a tremendous head coach and I was shocked the Bills didn't sit down and meet with him.

 

They did. Russ Brandon and Buddy Nix flew to Minnesota to interview him. And Wooten should have remembered that, seeing as how he was quoted in a story about the visit.

 

I respect Wooten's opinion, but as he pointed out himself, he's not exactly an unbiased observer re: Frazier.

[Pirate Angel]

Shannahan flamed out in Oakland, Billicheck flamed out in Cleveland, maybe we need our own flamer

[C.Biscuit97]

Shannahan flamed out in Oakland, Billicheck flamed out in Cleveland, maybe we need our own flamer

 

[BobChalmers]

I don't see how Chan Gailey flamed out. That's total BS.

 

In two seasons, had a winning record, two playoff appearances, one division title.

 

Where did the flame-out exactly start?

 

That doesn't even tell the whole story!

 

The Cowboys were 6-10 before Gailey.

 

They went 10-6, 8-8 in two seasons with him as HC.

 

They went 5-11 three straight years after him.

 

It's more like the Cowpies flamed out once their only spark - Gailey - was removed.

 

There is no limit to the number of stupid people with "cred" in the league. Just add Wooten to your list.

 

As for Frazier - after the Bills failed so miserably in not hiring him, he immediately became the head coach of ______??

 

The OP should ask for his money back.

[Big Hurt]

Jerry Jones of all people said that the biggest mistake he made as an owner was firing Gailey. So to me that indicates that it's too complicated to call it a bad hire yet. Gailey has been successful in some phases of his career and unsuccessful in others.

 

I laughed when I heard that. I always thought his biggest mistake was to let Jimmy Johnson walk. Jones is a egotistical jerk. I certainly would not take him seriously. Did you heard what Donald Trump said about USFL?

[Ramius]

I can see it already from the homer, schlub, off-season Super Bowl fans:

 

1. Who is John Wooten? He's an idiot.

2. Gailey didn't have enough time in Dallas to flame out. Jerry Jones said he should not have fired him when he did.

3. Georgia Tech doesn't get the players to be a top team. It's not Gailey's fault.

4. Nix is a Top 5 talent evaluator. his age doesn't matter.

5. Leslie Frazier hasn't been hired for a reason. He just doesn't have HC experience like Nix wanted.

6. I like the way Buffalo is rebuilding-no wasted money in free agency.

 

For the record, John Wooten's background can be found here.

 

Do you actually think up and type the same boring drivel repeatedly, or do you have a software program that takes the phrases "ralph is cheap", "the bills suck", "nix is old", and "smithers" and randomly generates sentences?

 

Either way, your contribution to discussion is minimal.

[BillsVet]

Do you actually think up and type the same boring drivel repeatedly, or do you have a software program that takes the phrases (1)"ralph is cheap", "(2)the bills suck", "(3)nix is old", and "(4)smithers" and randomly generates sentences?

 

Either way, your contribution to discussion is minimal.

 

We'll draft Dez Bryant to appease your affinity for receivers.

 

Generalize my positions with those four phrases? Fine. All I had done was generalize what the homer fans say whenever anyone dare attacks this franchise.

 

(1) RW can do whatever he pleases with his team. His leadership has featured too many lengthy periods of failure. When he hires quality people (Saban, Knox, Polian, Butler, et al) the team succeeds. But he's not cheap.

(2) Buffalo stinks because RW doesn't hire solid front office people, and can't attract them as evidenced by this past off-season. I would have been fine with Frazier or Grimm after the fiascos of Shanahan and Cowher.

(3) I've never seen a first time 70 year old GM. And I can't recall anyone in private or public life who is ascending to the pinnacle of their career in their eighth decade.

(4) Russ Brandon is Mr. Smithers personified. He's the guy who does exactly as his boss says, demonstrated by the TO signings. The fact that many propped him up as some sort of wunderkid who could get Buffalo back to respectability continues to be laughable.

[manbeast]

I can see it already from the homer, schlub, off-season Super Bowl fans:

 

1. Who is John Wooten? He's an idiot.

2. Gailey didn't have enough time in Dallas to flame out. Jerry Jones said he should not have fired him when he did.

3. Georgia Tech doesn't get the players to be a top team. It's not Gailey's fault.

4. Nix is a Top 5 talent evaluator. his age doesn't matter.

5. Leslie Frazier hasn't been hired for a reason. He just doesn't have HC experience like Nix wanted.

6. I like the way Buffalo is rebuilding-no wasted money in free agency.

 

For the record, John Wooten's background can be found here.

Butler and A.J. Smith Trusted Nix Judgement on personell moves and draft decisions that is why he didn't go there because he doesn't carry the same weight as those two names. I am very impressed sounds like a really good guy but his work in football as the product on the field doesn't impress. Now if he was involved in the drafting of those players then I would be impressed but the trade for the picks. If I am not mistaken wasn't the guy on the other end of the trade Al Davis.

[manbeast]

We'll draft Dez Bryant to appease your affinity for receivers.

 

Generalize my positions with those four phrases? Fine. All I had done was generalize what the homer fans say whenever anyone dare attacks this franchise.

 

(1) RW can do whatever he pleases with his team. His leadership has featured too many lengthy periods of failure. When he hires quality people (Saban, Knox, Polian, Butler, et al) the team succeeds. But he's not cheap.

(2) Buffalo stinks because RW doesn't hire solid front office people, and can't attract them as evidenced by this past off-season. I would have been fine with Frazier or Grimm after the fiascos of Shanahan and Cowher.

(3) I've never seen a first time 70 year old GM. And I can't recall anyone in private or public life who is ascending to the pinnacle of their career in their eighth decade.

(4) Russ Brandon is Mr. Smithers personified. He's the guy who does exactly as his boss says, demonstrated by the TO signings. The fact that many propped him up as some sort of wunderkid who could get Buffalo back to respectability continues to be laughable.

Nix first year back was last year how was our draft.

[rpcolosi]

I can see it already from the homer, schlub, off-season Super Bowl fans:

 

1. Who is John Wooten? He's an idiot.

2. Gailey didn't have enough time in Dallas to flame out. Jerry Jones said he should not have fired him when he did.

3. Georgia Tech doesn't get the players to be a top team. It's not Gailey's fault.

4. Nix is a Top 5 talent evaluator. his age doesn't matter.

5. Leslie Frazier hasn't been hired for a reason. He just doesn't have HC experience like Nix wanted.

6. I like the way Buffalo is rebuilding-no wasted money in free agency.

 

For the record, John Wooten's background can be found here.

 

 

totally agree, plus wooten is wrong - we DID sit down with Frazier. He was our first interview. so clearly, wooten can't be that reliable.

 

also - if you are giving an "online course for GM/NFL scouting" doesn't that all but mean he isn't capable of getting hired for a real job in the NFL?

[reddogblitz]

Nix first year back was last year how was our draft.

Our second round pick was pretty good.

[purple haze]

I can see it already from miserable, I hate my life so I'm gouing to B word on a Bills' message board, the Bills are teh worst team ever fans:

 

1) John Wooten is a god and everything he says should be taken as gospel.

 

2) Gailey is the reason Aikman had a concussion, why Irvin nearly got paralyzed, and the single reason the Cowboys didn't win more SBs.

 

3) Even though the players that made GT a top 10 this season were all recruited by Gailey, he sucks because they weren't top 10 when those guys were freshmen and sophs.

 

4) Polian is 67 and Nix is 70. Polian is a youngful, Nix is a grumpy old man.

 

5) Even though the Bills aren't the only team that has passed on Frazier, they are the dumbest because I hate them.

 

6) The only way to get better is to overpay in a crappy FA class.

 

It goes both ways. It's sad that as miserable as the Bills make you that you spend so much time here. But that's for another attempt to make others as miserable as you feel. You're the best.

[Thurman#1]

At Dallas by most accounts he inherited a fairly decent team.

1998 he went 10-6 and lost in the first round of the playoffs.

1999 he went 8-8 and somehow made it to the playoffs, and again lost in the first round.

 

So in his 2 years at Dallas, where player wise he was able to hit the ground running, combined he was 18-14 or 0.563% and 0-2 in the playoffs. And the trend was downward. Jones stopped the bleeding.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you say "At Dallas by most accounts he inherited a fairly decent team." Well then, you must think that last year's Bills were also a fairly decent team because last year's Bills had the same record, 6 - 10, as the Cowboys did the year before Gailey was hired.

 

Let's look at the record:

 

1997: 6 - 10

1998: 10 - 6 with Gailey

1999: 8 - 8 with Gailey, and at the end of this season, you say that "Jones stopped the bleeding."

2000: 5 - 11

2001: 5 - 11

 

Wow, if that's stopping the bleeding, the next time I get cut, just let me bleed, OK?

 

The facts show that Gailey's term with the Cowboys was a real uptick in their fortunes.

 

 

That doesn't even tell the whole story!

 

The Cowboys were 6-10 before Gailey.

 

They went 10-6, 8-8 in two seasons with him as HC.

 

They went 5-11 three straight years after him.

 

It's more like the Cowpies flamed out once their only spark - Gailey - was removed.

 

 

Ah. You got there before me.

[Thurman#1]

totally agree, plus wooten is wrong - we DID sit down with Frazier. He was our first interview. so clearly, wooten can't be that reliable.

 

 

 

I'm betting the mistake there was by the OP in summarizing Wooten, not by Wooten himself.