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Nate Silver supported Obama.

The only thing "partisan" is that you took this GOP rant hook, line and sinker without verifying any facts. We'll help you out with this newest candidate for Snopes. Here's the link b/c I can't copy the graphs: Look before you jump News Flash: Car Dealers are Republicans (It's Called a Control Group, People) by Nate Silver @ 6:50 PM A meme that is currently picking up traction in the conservative blogosphere is that the list of dealerships to be shuttered as a result of Chrysler's bankruptcy contains a disproportionate number donors to Republican candidates. There have been furious efforts to prove this contention by looking up campaign contributor lists at the Huffington Post, Open Secrets, and other places. There is just one problem with this theory. Nobody has bothered to look up data for the control group: the list of dealerships which aren't being closed. It turns out that all car dealers are, in fact, overwhelmingly more likely to donate to Republicans than to Democrats -- not just those who are having their doors closed. Here, for instance, is what Huffington Post's Fundrace site turns up for those who list their occupation as "auto dealer": Republican donations outstrip Democratic ones by about 8.6:1. Next, let's try "car dealer": For some reason, those persons who describe themselves as "car dealers" are just slightly more likely to donate to Democrats than those who call themselves "auto dealers". Nevertheless, the list of contributions tilts Republican by better than a 3:1 margin. Next up, "automobile dealer": Roughly a 10:1 advantage for Republicans. Finally, we'll look at the slightly more obscure formation of "automotive dealer": Big Republican edge here too. Combining the data: Overall, 88 percent of the contributions from car dealers went to Republican candidates and just 12 percent to Democratic candidates. By comparison, the list of dealers on Doug Ross's list (which I haven't vetted, but I assume is fine) gave 92 percent of their money to Republicans -- not really a significant difference. There's no conspiracy here, folks -- just some bad math. It shouldn't be any surprise, by the way, that car dealers tend to vote -- and donate -- Republican. They are usually male, they are usually older (you don't own an auto dealership in your 20s), and they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. Car dealerships need quite a bit of space and will tend to be located in suburban or rural areas. I can't think of too many other occupations that are more natural fits for the Republican Party. Unfortunately, while we are still a nation of drivers, we are not a nation of dealers.

That defense was sick. Bruce, Talley, Biscuit, Conlan, Kelso, Odomes? Was there a weak link? Looking back at it (having been 6 in 1990), I still can't believe Norwood stayed on that team. It seems like every clip that gets posted here from 90-91 has him missing some sort of attempt, from PATs to short FGs... that would not have been tolerated in today's NFL. On the other hand, it seems like Nate Odomes is making some sort of great play in every one of these clips.

Yup...Nate Clements and Jason Peters are cursing out Jauron because he allowed them to become the highest paid players at their positions... Man, it is amazing what trash gets posted when there is nothing to talk about and people have to manufacture things...

Contracts are never what they look like, ie Nate Clemens bogus 8 year 80 mil http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4661 7/26/2008: Signed a five-year, $33 million contract. The deal includes $22.5 million guaranteed. Another $18 million is available through incentives. 2009: $385,000, 2010: $983,500, 2011: $1,582,250, 2012: $2.181 million, 2013: $2.75 million, 2014: Free Agent Obviously still a lot of money, but he's not making 10 mil a year. I'm still looking for his signing bonus breakdowns...read on ballhype that the chiefs got a pretty good deal, in terms on no 5 pick money...

So was Pat Williams. So was Nate Clements. So was Antoine Winfield. So was Jabari Greer. So was ... Getting a good next contract isn't a function of acting professional and patient. It has a great deal to do with what the Bills feel like doing.

When I checked on this thread, my first reaction was, Cool. It's up to two pages already. Glad to see things are going well. Then I looked at people's posts, and saw that, with a few exceptions (such as SilverMike and Bill from NYC) no actual content had been added to this thread. But one poster decided to give his hooting a thin veneer of intellectual respectability. To do this, he tried to argue that the Bills are generally reluctant to retain their most successful players at any position. The problem, supposedly, wasn't that the front office valued CBs too highly in the draft (too many first round picks) or too little in free agency (none of those first round picks were extended). Instead, he felt that, had those first round picks been used on players at other positions, and had those players done as well as the CBs did, they too would have been allowed to go first contract and out. To examine that particular argument more closely, let's look at the Bills' first round picks starting around the time of the Super Bowl era: Offensive line: John Fina, Ruben Brown, Mike Williams. Result: every player was either a bust (Williams) or was retained for the bulk of his useful career. WR: Eric Moulds, Lee Evans. Result: both players were successful picks, who have given (or will have given) the majority of their careers to Buffalo. QB: Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, J.P. Losman Result: none of the guys worked out. TE: no one RB: Antowain Smith, Marshawn Lynch Result: Smith was released after a few years, and continued to produce at a so-so level. Lynch is entering his fourth season with the Bills. Defensive line: Erik Flowers, John McCargo Result: Flowers was a bust, McCargo's career looks iffy LB: nobody Safety: Henry Jones, Donte Whitner Result: of Jones' twelve seasons in the league, ten were spent with Buffalo. CB: James Williams, Thomas Smith, Jeff Burris, Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Leodis McKelvin Result: Of his six years in the league, Williams spent four with Buffalo. Of Smith's nine years in the league, seven were spent with the Bills. Of Burris' ten years in the NFL, four were spent with Buffalo. Of Winfield's ten years (and counting) in the NFL, five were spent with Buffalo. Clements gave the Bills six years, and is now with the '49ers. The story is clear. From 1990 - 2005, there were five successful non-CBs chosen in the first round. All of them were retained for the majority of their careers. During that same span, four successful CBs were chosen in the first round. Those four players averaged 5.5 years in Buffalo before leaving.

Golly, I wonder what happened around February 4th, 1993 that would cause our drafting to get worse. I can't imagine... But quick and dirty, here's our all-drafted team since that day: QB: Trent Edwards RB: Marshawn Lynch, Travis Henry WR: Eric Moulds, Lee Evans TE: Jay Riemersma OT: Jonas Jennings, Corey Louichey OG: Reuben Brown, Brad Butler C: Dusty Ziegler DE: Marcellus Wiley, Aaron Schobel DT: Ron Edwards, Kyle Williams LB: Sam Cowart, Paul Posluszny, Angelo Crowell CB: Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements SS: Donte Whitner FS: I honestly can't come up with anyone. Ko Simpson? Eric Smedley? That's probably not a playoff team.

So let's see, how often do we keep top picks lately? 2001: Nate Clements - Franchised, lost; Schobel - extended; Henry - extended, traded; 2002: Mike Williams - cut; Josh Reed - extended; Ryan Denney - extended 2003: Willis McGahee - traded; Chris Kelsay - extended; 2004: Evans extended; Losman - left in disgrace 2005: Parrish extended;

I'm pretty sure Nate Clements would go under that category...he was an elite football player when we left him go, one of the best of his position.

That's inaccurate. Clements was still under contract in January when Tom Donahoe was let go. It was the new regime that then tagged Clements, so theoretically he wasn't one contract and out. It was the new regime that also struck a deal with Nate, assuring him he wouldn't be tagged again if he agreed to show up to minicamps. jw

There are a lot of things that could be said in that discussion. I'll focus on just one thing--how the two of them did with their first round picks--while recognizing that a lot of other factors go into how one scores them overall. I've assigned each first round pick a grade, as follows: A = exceeds expectations for the pick B = meets expectations for the pick C = falls below expectations for the pick, but still a solid starter D = falls seriously below expectations for the pick, but still someone you'd like to have on your roster F = outright bust Longevity is also factored in. If a player went first contract and out, I'll give him a significantly lower score than he'd have gotten if he'd stayed here his whole career. TD's first round picks: Nate Clements: C (This would have been an A had Clements not gone first contract and out.) Mike Williams: F Drew Bledsoe: D (This would have been a C had Bledsoe lasted longer than three years.) Willis McGahee: C Lee Evans: B J.P. Losman: F Average: 1.5 (on a scale of 0 - 4) Marv's first round picks: Donte Whitner: C John McCargo: D Marshawn Lynch: C (His grade is lowered a bit by the fact that he probably won't have a very long career.) Average: 1.7 (on a scale of 0 - 4) As you can see, there isn't a whole lot of difference between how Marv and TD did in the first round. Between them, the two general managers found no As, and only one B. When you think about the Bills' lack of game changers, their lack of superstar players, it comes back to the lack of As and Bs in the first round of the draft.

This is a great topic. Now that we have a few years of work under Levy/Jauron et al, we can objectively compare how much "better" we are from the dredges of the Donahoe years. Donahoe's 1st round picks, for the most part, were pretty awful. Bledsoe (traded a #1), Williams, McGahee, Losman. McGahee is still a player in this league, and has had some success since leaving, so in a player perspective, he still can play, but for Buffalo, obviously, this is nill. So I think on McGahee its a special case since Williams and Losman simply can't play in the league as it stands. There ARE believe it or not some Donahoe hits in the draft. The 2001 draft was really good, to be honest. Nate Clements, Aaron Schobel, Travis Henry, Jonas Jennings all in the first day. That's pretty impressive. 3 Pro Bowlers, and 4 starters in day 1? OK. Sure, Henry is a felon now, and Jennings is certainly up there, and making a ton of money on bad knees in SF w/Clements, but you can't deny, at the time, the efficacy of that draft. Jason Peters, "the best LT in football" was a Donahoe scrapheep find. As was Jabari Greer who is a starter in this league. Lee Evans, Roscoe Parrish, Josh Reed are still here. How about those Bills Special Teams? Moorman, Lindell, McGee, and Parrish all Donahoe finds. Angelo Crowell is still a starter in this league. Takeo Spikes and Fletcher had a couple really good years here. Despite his many mistakes, and I do credit a lot of our problems to Donahoe's long term errors, but he DID actually get some talent in here, despite everyone's hatred for the man. Levy has his busts too, McCargo is glaring. Whitner is arguable suggestion, especially at 8th overall. You need Ed Reed at 8th overall, not a guy with I still think only 1 INT in his career. They have a good running back when he's not suspended or arrested. I like Edwards, lets just hope he stays healthy. All in all, the above poster with regards to average record put it best. We haven't really had much difference. Average record w/TD 6-10, avg w/Jauron/Levy/Brandon, 7-9. Donahoe DOES have a winning season on his record, and an 8-8. So that does count in his favor. But nonetheless, we're still almost 10 years removed from the postseason, and still a coupel BIG holes to fill if we really wanna compete next year. I actually have to do work now. Out.

Franchise him? That is always the worst way to go, especially with a QB! Look at that trade the Pats had to make just to dump Cassell's one year 12 Mil. contract. They "tossed" in a terrific veteran linebacker with a couple of good years still in him in Vrabel, and still didn't even get a #1 pick back from KC. Why? Because the Chiefs had to deal with that insane contract of course, that's why. Besides, the Bills have not used the franchise tag since.....wow, I don't remember the last time they used it. Have they ever used it? They could have and should have used it on Nate Clements. Not that Nate has lived up to his contract he ended up signing with in SF, the Bills still could have used his talent for at least one more season, and ended up spending less then the 49ers gave him.

Firstly I would always want to believe and do believe, that Pete Metzelaars and Frank Reich are excellent coaches. We have no way of knowing if that's true but everything we know about them would suggest that they are excellent coaches and not riding some sort of Polian gravy train. And it does seem odd and unfortunate that so few of the men from our Super Bowl teams have any affiliation with the team. Even more curious because Marv was GM for two years and his tenure might have been an opportunity to recruit some alums from our glory years. I think what it might come down to is that few Bills from the Super Bowl years are still in football. That was roughly 15 years ago. On top of that few of the Bills great players (Smith, Kelly, Thomas, Reed, Hull, Bennett, Talley, Conlan, etc) ever went into coaching or administration. Not only did none of the all time greats stay in the game but none of the role players did either. Ray Bentley coached indoors for awhile. You could imagine guys like Rob Riddick or Nate Odomes coaching in the league but they never did. Steve Tasker works in broadcasting. John Butler passed away. The Bills employ one of the few players from those teams still in the NFL, Mark Kelso who's an analyst on Bills radio broadcasts. There actually seems to be very few former Bills players from any era working in the NFL. I think James Lofton might still be in football, and former Bills DB Martin Mayhew is GM of the Detroit Lions. Former Bills QB James Harris the first black QB to start a season opener, (Bills, 1969) was a long time VP Player Personnel with Jacksonville and works with Mayhew in Detroit now. Paul Maguire does college football broadcasts I believe. There's just not that many Bills from that or any era working in the NFL it seems.

While the Ball State alums do bring up valid points, coming from someone who never really "got" college football, last year's UB football season was some of the most fun I had watching football in a looong time. Isn't that what its supposed to be, fun? The players genuinely enjoyed being on the field, playing for pride, and pretty much, nothing else. That's what its about folks, connecting oneself to the bigger picture. Thats what a good sports story is. Was Willy the best QB in college football? Of course not. There is something to be said about A LOT of people that are paid big money to do what we're doing right now, talk about football, that believe Willy to be a pretty talented player. He made some GREAT throws last year, and, actually uses the laces by the way. When Nate Davis got drafted, Jaws was going on and on about his flawed footwork and mechanics. Mechanics can be corrected, but retraining YEARS of muscle memory is going to be a challenge. I'm not an athlete, but I can tell you that much. Was it the best football you'll ever watch? Obviously not, its a mid major conference. But at least it was fun. You can feel that the coaches are in charge of the situation and wont make boneheaded, terrible game-day decisions like professional buffalo football coaches. Take it for what its worth. Tickets are free, or REALLY cheap. The band is good. Some of the cheerleaders are good looking. Oh, and there's not a crowd full of wasted idiots that cant stop shouting incessant nonsense the whole time. At a recent Sabres game, the guy right next to me could not go literally a minute without shouting "FIRE REGIERRRRRRR" Seriously, they heard you, and please just watch hockey and shut up. Ill tell ya what, for free, I'll go to as many UB games as possible.

bringing the discussion back to Drew Willy, since this thread was originally about him before some disgruntled people brought up Nate Davis and Big Ben.. after the 'Fins released John Beck, he got signed up by the Baltimore Ravens - is Drew Willy still with them? that would add another player int he competition for the backup position.. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/foot...s.ap/index.html

They also thought Nate Clements was worth $80 Million

Hey, they signed Nate Clements!

Am I the only one out here who is terrified that, god forbid, Trent goes down with a serious injury this season? Our depth at quarterback is almost laughable. We picked up Ryan Fitzpatrick who displayed glimpses of mediocrity last year for the Bungles (I'm not impressed). Coming off the bench we have Gibran Hamdan. I know he's good buddies with Trent and that's really sweet........but I'm pretty certain that he would not be able to step up and lead this team. Finally, we have Matt Baker, "the human paperweight." Enough said. My main point being.....why didn't we take a shot on a "groomable" QB in rounds 4-7? In lieu of selecting 3 defensive backs in the latter rounds we could have had a guy like Graham Harrell (went undrafted), Stephen McGee, Nate Davis, etc... I know we had to address a lot of needs in this draft, but I really was hoping we would take a QB somewhere along the line. I like our early round picks. I am really excited about the potential of out o-line. I'm a little confused about what they were thinking in rounds 5-7.

Actually, they did not use the Poison Pill clause, but no point in using facts to back your argument. Here is an exerpt from the Globe about the trade for Welker. By that point, the only question was how to finalize the process. The Patriots were prepared to sign Welker to an offer sheet that included a "poison pill" that would make it difficult for the Dolphins to match. Yet in hopes of avoiding the bad blood that sometimes can accompany offer sheets - the Seahawks and Vikings recently engaged in a nasty back and forth with offensive lineman Steve Hutchinson and receiver Nate Burleson exchanging teams via offer sheets - the Patriots instead called the Dolphins and proposed a trade. The Dolphins were amenable, shipping Welker to the Patriots for second- and seventh-round draft choices. The Dolphins used the second-rounder (60th overall) to select Hawaii center Samson Satele, who has started all six games this season. The seventh-round pick (238th overall) yielded Abraham Wright, a linebacker from Colorado who has been inactive for every game

Fine, let's go over the list. This kind of crap gets really old, but sometimes people's noses have to be rubbed in it. Parish has, for the past two years been the top punt returner in the league. Period. He doesn't get a lot of reps at receiver because we have had too many people in front of him. He's a top talent in the return game. In case you have forgotten there are three phases to an NFL game, all of them important. Parrish's stats are as follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8469 Just for a summary, he's had 94 PRs in 54 games since he was drafted totaling 1312 and 3 TDs. No other punt returner has better numbers. As for Fred Jackson, last year, his stats were as follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=10195 As a BACKUP running back, Fred Jackson has 188 carries for 871yds, good for a 4.6ypc average. You show me another backup running back that has those kinds of stats, and who carried for 110 yds against the Patriots Defense. You won't. Josh Reed has been playing out of his best position, the slot for the past three years. He will be back at that position this year. As a number three receiver, he has the following stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=3564 No one is saying that he is a top ten receiver, but he is one of the five best #3's in the game. Schobel is one a top-ten or twelve DE when healthy. Look at his career numbers. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2594 In his first seven injury free seasons he had 67 sacks. That's 9.75 per season. That's elite range. Averaging 10 per year is considered elite. He's right there. With him healthy again this season, and Maybin to take away double teams on passing downs, Schobel will get to ten sacks again. As for the rest of your list. McGee is widely talked about as a top ten corner in the league. His stats as a CB show why: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=4569 Compare those statistics over the last two years with the player that McGee replaced in Nate Clements who was and is considered to be one of the top cover CBs in the NFL. His stats are as follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2569 Please note the clear similarities and in some cases better stats that McGee has accumulated in his six years compared to Clements in his 9 years. Kawika Mitchell is one of the top-fifteen OLBs in football. I'm tired of posting stats for you. Before making stupid statements you should look them up yourself. As for Youboty and Poz, they are still basically rookies. Poz played his first full season last year and looked strong at MLB. I'm not saying he was top fifteen last year, but the potential for him is there, and he's very young. I know you're probably a Jets or Patriots fan because that's the cool thing to be. Just because the Bills are a small market and don't get a lot of love from the TV personalities on ESPN or FOX doesn't mean there isn't a lot of talent on this team. You mentioned that no one has mentioned the talent on the OL. Fine, quick, and without looking it up on ESPN or at Stats Inc. name me the five starters on Miami's OL in less than thirty seconds. Unless you rooted for that team you wouldn't be able to. Buffalo's right side last year was one of the best in football statistically. Walker is significantly underrated as an RT and Butler was basically a second year player who played well above expectations. That being said, the "superstar" player on our OL was traded and we now have a completely reworked and more solid OL left to right. Learn how the game is played and actually look up statistics before you go trolling on other teams' message boards. Unless of course your goal in life is to be a full time .

Not ahead of Dubenion. Chuck Pollock picked him (ahead of Moulds, not Duby) because he figured anyone in the HOF automatically deserved a spot. I respect that, but to me, he got into Canton because of his Packers career, not his 3.75 years here. Honestly? I might have put Jerry Butler on the team ahead of him, too. I will say that Lofton was a lot easier to accept than putting Nate Odomes in ahead of both Bob James and Booker Edgerson, though. That's just foolish talk.

The pressure of the MAC championship game did not get to him. I played for baseball for Ball State, and roomed with two football players, one of which is in the NFL now, and I can tell you that any Ball State player would rather beat a MAJOR conference school than worry about winning the MAC Championship in front of 7,000 fans. While a conference title is always your goal, when you actually win the MAC Championship game, you are usually locked into a crappier bowl game than the team that isn't in the title game. In this case though, BSU was undefeated, but assured to be locked out of the BCS which still would have had them playing friggin Tulsa in a bowl even if they beat Buffalo. So, many times, a MAC teams biggest games are the beginning of the year non-conference games against a major power. Nate Davis has taken Ball State into hostile environments and put up 50 plus points at Nebraska, almost won at Michigan, and was winning games against Big Ten and Big East teams at home in Muncie. He also already had performed well the year before in the bowl game vs. Rutgers, which is one of the reasons BSU acquired so many ESPN Prime Time games even before Ball State was 8-0, 9-0, 10-0. Believe me that any player would much rather beat one of those schools than win the Motor City bowl and go on to play another Mid Major in a meaningless bowl game. And Davis performed very well in a number of huge games that BSU played outside of the MAC conference. This is what all made the MAC Championship, bowl game, and combine so puzzling. I don't know what the hell happened to the kid. You had a large number of games to judge him from all thrown out the window for those two games. Makes no sense.

I was bored weeks ago.....still bored really .........but came up with 3 teams Bills Golden Anniversary Team First Team Quarterback – Jim Kelly Running Back – Thurman Thomas Wide Receivers – Andre Reed, Eric Moulds, Jerry Butler Tight End – Pete Metzelaars Offensive Line – Will Wolford, Joe DeLamielleure, Kent Hull, Billy Shaw, House Ballard Defensive Line – Bruce Smith, Tom Sestak, Phil Hansen Linebackers – Mike Stratton, Darryl Talley, Shane Conlan, Cornelius Bennett Safeties – Tony Greene, George Saimes Cornerbacks – Robert James, Butch Byrd Kicker – Steve Christie Punter – Brian Moorman Special Teams – Steve Tasker Coach – Marv Levy Second Team Quarterback – Joe Ferguson Running Back – OJ Simpson Wide Receivers – Elbert Dubenion, Bob Chandler, James Lofton Tight End – Jay Riemersma Offensive Line – Joe Devlin, Reggie McKenzie, Al Bemiller, Ruben Brown, Jim Ritcher Defensive Line – Ron McDole, Freddie Smerlas, Ted Washington Linebackers – Takeo Spikes, Harry Jacobs, Bryce Paup, London Fletcher Safeties – Steve Freeman, Mark Kelso Cornerbacks – Booker Edgerson, Nate Odomes Kicker – Rian Lindell Punter – Chris Mohr Special Teams – Mark Pike Coach – Lou Saban Honorable Mention Quarterback – Jack Kemp Running Back – Cookie Gilchrist Wide Receivers – Lee Evans, Frank Lewis, Peerless Price Tight End – Reuben Gant Offensive Line – Jason Peters, Ken Jones, Stew Barber, Dave Foley, John Fina Defensive Line – Aaron Schobel, Jim Dunaway, Pat Williams Linebackers – Jim Haslett, Shane Nelson, Sam Cowart, Chris Spielman Safeties – Henry Jones, Leonard Smith Cornerbacks – Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield Kicker – Scott Norwood Punter – Paul Maguire Special Teams – Terrence McGee Coach – Chuck Knox