KOKBILLS

The truth is this team has gambled with the middle and the bottom of this roster and it's cost them again on the field...It's not as much about top tier spending as it is about spending to find better players than the likes of Rogers, Tuel, Colin Brown, etc...The cost differential to fill positions like that is minimal, and certainly within the $20 mil or so they are under the cap...But the Bills tried to buck the odds and got caught by the injury bug...Lesson learned? We'll see next off season... I should note that they actually did the right thing in retaining Tavaris Jackson as an insurance policy at QB...Then they cut him 4 months later...So even when they got it right, they got it wrong...

Exactly...And especially when you're Rookie QB suffers two knee injuries before Week #6... That being said I seriously doubt the Bills Draft a QB in Round #1 2014...They just don't seem to be that kind of organization...

I'm looking...

Really? Do you have any idea what the odds are that ALL of them had nothing to say before Manuel got hurt?...Even though Manuel was already hurt once in preseason...Did you miss the comments by some that were pretty surprised the Bills decided to go with only Manuel and Tuel on the final 53? Did you miss the TJ thread when he was cut? No offense but...Overgeneralization...My #1 pet peeve on this board...Followed closely by over-exaggeration...

They had one...His name is Tavaris Jackson...And even if the Bills liked Kolb better and thought they might keep Tuel over him, there was zero reason to cut Jackson as early as they did...And almost on cue Kolb and Manuel get hurt in preseason and it's a cluster-you-know-what at the QB position...If you're thinking about keeping Tuel you HAVE to know you can stash him on the Dev Squad minimum...You're going with a Rookie QB who is a mobile guy...so you HAVE to know how important the backup QB position is going to be...Right? You just HAVE to know...It's Whaley's job to know...So before you even play a down in preseason you release a vet QB (who has had at least some success in the NFL) who you just resigned 4 months earlier, because you landed an undrafted kid who was 4-22 as a starter in College? Really? And they wonder why Kolb and Manuel got hurt throughout preseason? I was obviously karma... And I'm only 3/4 kidding... And by no means am I saying TJ was the be-all, end-all...But I think at this point we can all agree he was probably a better option than Tuel for this season...Next season maybe Tuel passes him...Who knows?...Just another example of a questionable move made by this FO when all they had to do was stay put and let it all play out...

Well...The next game is 8 days away...Lewis and Tuel have both been in Buffalo since at least the last pre-season game...They know the playbook by now...At least relatively well...They know the players, they know the Coaches...While I'm not against signing Freeman I can't see how he could possibly be ready for the Cincy game, unless the Bills plan on handing it off 80% of the time...So anyway, I'm certain most of the vets on this team understand as raw as they are, Tuel and Lewis probably give the Bills the best chance to win in 8 days... Beyond that you may have a point, especially if either Tuel or Lewis look bad vs. Cincy...And it's an unfortunate Roster dilemma, but my guess is Lewis has to come up and take a spot for the Cincy game, and the Bills are going to have to give up another spot immediately if they want to bring in a guy like Freeman...I do think in comparison to what is out there Freeman is far and away the best option...I'm just not sure how quickly he can really help...And I think most of the vets like KW understand that...I think they may be more pissed off about the fact that the Bills went into the season the way they did at QB...Not necessarily how they react to it now...

OK...I agree with that take...No question about it the lack of focus on certain areas of depth on this team is the root of the problem...I've said as much here before... And once again...It's not an excuse if it's a fact...It's a fact the Bills have suffered greatly from that lack of depth you describe...It's happening on the field, during games, and it's obviously due to the injuries...We all know Gilmore and McLovin is worlds better than Rogers and A Williams at CB...It's truth...The CB position alone has accounted for how many TD's now? I just don't see how it's making excuses when someone is pointing out the fact that a CB who was a borderline roster player is getting toasted due to mass injuries at his position...It's not an excuse...It's a fact... But no question the cause behind the fact was poor roster planning...That much we agree upon...

Agreed...On the sole fact that EJ is a Rookie QB I think he's actually done rather well...He has a ton of work to do in order to get better...No question about it...But so far I'm 100% satisfied that in time, and especially with a good running game, he could be special...

A dirty hit how? Go back and look at the replay...There is absolutely no way Alonso could have known Hoyer was going to go into a slide suddenly right there...That's why it was not flagged...Alonso is coming at him like a missile and when he gets about 1-2 yards away Hoyer starts to slide...Kiko is already aiming for Hoyer's midsection, but the slide had started and Kiko basically goes right through him...That's why Hoyer's legs got caught in a really strange way...His slide was so late and Kiko was right there...There was absolutely nothing dirty about that hit whatsoever...

Good find... I'm certainly not saying Freeman is the be-all, end-all...Or anything like that...But it seems to me Schiano is a HC that can REALLY rub some people the wrong way...I know when I've had personal issues with individuals at work it rarely gets better with time...Usually lines end up being drawn, and someone ends up leaving...Maybe Freeman was simply not a guy Schiano could manipulate with his style of coaching...It happens...

I hear you Simon...But my gut tells me Schiano is a serious nut job... I could be wrong though...

I know some folks will ignore this stat...But it does have serious relevance when it comes to projecting the success of NFL QB's...I read a study when Locker was coming out that was pretty damning to College QB's with losing records...The best one since 2000 is Jay Cutler I believe...But Cutler was obviously a MUCH better QB coming out with better tools than Tuel...Josh Freeman was 14-18 at Kansas St... I just realized I wrote "better tools than Tuel..." I need a break...

And their way is arguably the best QB in the history of the NFL, and a HOF HC... No offense...But bad comparison...

Yawn... You're right...Injuries had nothing to do with the Bills loss last night... The Browns injuries issues pale in comparison to the Bills, and obviously their depth was better in the areas they were banged up...Especially at QB...No one is making excuses...It is what it is...It can't be ignored though...it's a fact...And the QB injuries resulted in the biggest disparity because Weedon is 100 times better than Tuel...

You are correct sir!!! There's a reason Moorman is available...He's years past his prime...

Nah...He's better... Seriously though...Freeman as average as he's looked at times, would seemingly be a HUGE upgrade to Tuel...And that speaks more about how unready Tuel is than it does how good Freeman is...And the only question right now for the Bills at QB is how much better they can do than Tuel...None of the available options is going to be a challenge to EJ...

Not sure what happened with the kid...He just sort of regressed...He punted WAY better in College...The easy assumption was that he would continue to get better...But he actually continually got worse and more erratic...The Bills really had no choice...But this was a strange and to be honest a surprising collapse to watch...I was really hoping he was going to turn into one of the better Punters in the NFL...

Is the choice between Tebow and Tuel, or Tebow and Freeman?...I would take Tebow over Tuel just because of the experience aspect...But I would take Freeman and even Thad Lewis over Tebow...

Agreed...There were a ton of minor factors in this game...But one TD drive from our back-up QB and we win the game (assuming he does not throw the freaking pick 6 of course)... I don't blame Tuel either...He's no where near ready and that's on the coaches for not realizing it a long time ago...

I think if EJ plays the whole game there would be little talk about how good the Browns are...Not that they're bad...But I don't think they're that good either...Furthermore the Bills are not very good, and they are VERY banged up... That punt returner for the Browns is dynamite though...

Impossible to argue with this point at this time... It was a short week and Marrone all but admitted Tuel had no reps in practice...But still...A vet QB with almost any competence and I think the Bills win this one...This loss is squarely on the FO and the coaches for letting it happen...Tuel is not even close to being ready to play...That was abundantly clear tonight...

Exactly... And no offense to the OP...But Tuel's an NFL QB now...If he could do what Weeden did the Bills win that game easy...And Weeden is not that good...He just has more experience...And probably a lot more talent...No question in my mind Tuel cost us the game...But it's not his fault...Hindsight is always 20/20...But it's looking like the Bills made a BIG mistake going with Tuel as the back-up...And Tavaris Jackson should have been in there tonight...Not Tuel...There are a lot of NFL back-up that could have won us this game tonight...Tuel was definitely not among them... The Browns are a good run Defense normally...With Tuel in there it just made things easier for them...No way were they going to let the Bills run the ball...The Bills could have tried more and they would have failed...Sure the play calling could have been better...The screen to Freddie worked pretty well...But Tuel has to make those short throws that were there to keep the chains moving and he was WAY off...I don't question the run/pass ratio much...If you're the Browns who are you worried about?...Jackson/Spiller, or a back-up, undrafted rookie QB who looks like a deer in the headlights and can't hit the broad side of a barn?...It's not the 1st half of the game...The Bills needed to move the ball a long way to score...The Browns only had to neutralize Freddie and CJ and it was game, set, match...Tuel was going to have to beat them...And there is no way he's up to that yet...

This is game could not have been more winnable...

Can't believe they gave up that 3rd down...Just can't believe it...

Well...I'm sure the Browns feel they would have done better with Hoyer...And they would probably be right...But I have no doubt the Bills win this game if EJ does not get hurt...Tuel better find his inner stud really quick or the Bills organization is going to look idiotic for keeping him as the sole back-up...