Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

Yes but if you do accomplish that, then these other guys will want to be paid more. The key more is draft/sign/trade at other positions that aren't paid as high as WR has become Kind of funny in away, there's been an onslaught of improved QB play in the past half dozen or so years. That in turn has made all these WR's look so much better so now they are being paid. What could hurt Diggs is if Adams and Hill in their new surrounding DON'T put up huge numbers this coming year. Then Beane and company can tell Diggs WR aren't playing at that level of pay. All these guys have put up huge numbers when matched with elite QB play. Diggs best year was with Allen, even this year was his second best ever and people were a bit disappointed. Adams and Hill have had one advantage of more years with elite QB play, though another year for Diggs with Allen and similar results would give him 3 great seasons. This likely is Diggs last shot at a huge contract so will see.

I went back and re-read your post, 4 times you used words like; error, mistake, lack of foresight, under estimated so pretty sure you were implying Beane should have paid more, like the 2nd round tender which is just under $4 mil. That's a lot for a guy who's started 6 games total. Even when we know the Bears offer we won't really know the answer to whether they over paid or not for another couple of years. What if it's only $1 mil more and Beane declines to match, is that a mistake or is he really not worth that much, again won't know for awhile. Everyone is counting on Ford being done. No one knows what Kromer (sp) thinks of him. He may have told Beane he feels he can make him look just as good as Bates, maybe he's right or maybe he's wrong, but that could have gone into their thinking too regarding how much to pay now for Bates. Or their plan may be to match regardless, but felt if they could initially get him cheaper, all the better as gives them more flexibility right now with the cap. From things I read sounded like their plan was tenmder him cheap, then sign him to a 2 to 3 year deal afterwards.

Yeah he sucks, but the Bills are going to get a 2nd round draft pick for him! LOL WRT Bradberry, I don't like giving up draft picks (as would be with Edmunds too) For a one year player. I'd be more happy if they Bills went the Tyrek Hill route trade for him let the Giants take on some of the salary, but then redo the contract.

Last I counted there are 5 starters on the O-line, Morse, Dawkins, and Brown are back that makes three. If Bates does leave they lost their two guards, but added one back in Stafford. That places them one starter down and one sub Feliciano who by the end of last season contributed very little. Starting a rookie on the O-line isn't that unheard of and they can still or sign someone still out there. What is sounds like you're entire point is, Beane made a mistake by not over paying for Bates. If that's his biggest mistake that's not a bad problem to have. We also have no idea if the Bills tried to work out a long term deal with him prior to giving the tender but again Bates wanted much more than they valued him at.

Yeah, but I think Littman was just doing what RW instructed him to do.

Agree and if you do the $3.9, you're locked in at that as rarely does any team go after a 2nd round tender unless was some real star. It is still a small sample size to offer that much. He also hasn't signed with anyone either. Could be the offer's weren't that much better than the $2.4 and he just talked to other teams to gauge his value. If that's the plan they likely tried to get him to take a cut to start with and he said no. Certainly if no other teams sign him and in 2 to 3 weeks he may decide the Bills offer wasn't so bad after all.

Two questions WRT Comp Picks Will Levi Wallace help in securing comp picks for next year since he was undrafted? Thought I read at one time only applies to drafted players? And anyone have any insight as to how's it looking overall right now for picks for next year based on who's gone and who's been signed? Williams, Star, Mongo, and Beasley don't count at all as they were cut. Phillips, 3rd rounder and Mitch T 1st round help, Breida was undrafted. But offset by Von Miller and OJ Howard both 1st rounders, Johnson 3rd round, plus at least another 4th and 5th rounder in Crowder and Jones. If Hughes signs with another team he was 1st rounder. Based on above, thinking overall, not likely to get much in the way of picks if any??

Agree Keenan has much more experience than Barkley, but doesn't know Allen like Barkley does and what his likes and dislikes are WRT play calling. If he sticks around for the two full years he'll get there, but not initially. Very likely either Dorsey or Brady will be up in the booth so probably both won't be on the sideline. Sure he will talk with them but he'll also talk with Barkley and get meaningful help from him. You often saw D Webb talking with Allen. You remember Webb, the guy with one career start!! But yet they would talk and he got lots of credit for helping Allen, talk of making him a coach. Somehow he was able to help Allen, even though he basically never played the game, much less than Barkley and had similar college careers. So how did it work for Webb but the same won't happen with Barkley? Sure lots of teams add a rookie, but more often when they're not sure if the starter is really the long term answer Giants and Fish are good places for that. But how would that help the Bills compared to a guy who knows the playbook inside and out and knows Allen. You talk about how this was a dumb move to bring in a Scrub, doesn't help the team at all, it's just to make Allen happy, but then you want instead to bring in a low round rookie who'll do much less to help the team. The only help at all would be to himself.

Maybe had the team mixed up and it was for the Josh Allen in Jax.

Yes you said develop a rookie. So on one hand you're complaining how the Bills signed Barkley to make Allen happy, we're running a day care here that he'll add no value to the team, but then you want to bring in a rookie to develop. How exactly is that helping the Bills? If the guy ever got good, he'd be gone helping another team so nothing for the Bills there. Likely he's on PS so no draft picks coming for him. But even that's very low chance of happening as he's never going to play except due to injury to both Allen and Keenan. If that were to happen think in 2022 and likely even 2023, Bills would still be better with Barkley playing than 5th or 6th round rookie. You don't think Barkley on the sideline when the offense is out can in any way help Allen with play suggestions? I hope you're joking on that one! Just because he only has 2 starts? He's been around and learned, most college stars flunk out in the NFL do to not having the physical skills, not because they don't understand the game.

Yeah figured it out once you said didn't you see the J/K at the bottom. But initially didn't.

I see two needs for the Bills left in FA,getting a mid level CB and someone who can be the return man. At this point, who would be the return guy? Depending on what WR they draft, he could have experience as a return man, but do you want to trust a rookie in that role?

Who's going to beat him out? Hodkins? They really don't have another slot guy on the roster, lot of talk about the Bills drafting a WR, but more a guy who can play outside. I see the WR group as (order not meaningful): Diggs Davis McKenzie Kumarow Rookie Crowder Stevenson/Hodkins The only way I see him not making the team is if they pick up a guy either FA or draft who's a WR and also a top return man. But not so sure they'd want to trust a rookie in that role unless he did it alot in college.

So who should they have signed as the #3 QB for similar money who'd be a better asset to the Bills this coming season? Barkley knows Allen and knows the offense. If they are in a game where Allen is struggling and things aren't working, he has the ability to say to Allen, "How about you try this". He likely can help that way more than even Keenan can based on his knowledge of Allen and what his likes and dislikes are. What's a rookie going to say to help, " Can I bring you a clean towel?"

Not much really. When you have Josh Allen you're never going to be a strong running team as you're best way to gain yards is through the air. If Taylor was on the Bills he'd be lucky if he had 1/3 or the yards he's had as he'd been given the ball much less. I'd take Johnson's blocking ability in the back field over some rookie if you're so worried about Allen getting hurt. Also pass catching. For the most part rookie RB's are great at one thing, taking the handoff, blocking catching passes takes time to develop those skills at an NFL level.

Actually looks like he had some better games in 2016 per Wiki or did you not bother going back that far Barkley was signed to the Chicago Bears' practice squad on September 4, 2016.[73] He was elevated to the active roster on September 22, 2016.[74] Following an injury to the Bears' backup quarterback Brian Hoyer against the Green Bay Packers on October 20, Barkley made his first appearance as a member of the Chicago Bears, going 6 of 15 for 81 yards; he threw for zero touchdowns and two interceptions.[75] After Jay Cutler suffered a shoulder injury against the Giants, Barkley started the following week's game against the Tennessee Titans.[76] Barkley completed 28 of 54 passes for 316 yards with three touchdowns, two interceptions, and a 72.8 passer rating, nearly rallying the Bears from a 20-point deficit in the fourth quarter before losing 27–21.[77] Barkley earned his first NFL win the very next week on December 4, a 26–6 win over the San Francisco 49ers at Soldier Field. This was the Bears' third and last victory of the season.[78] He completed 11 for 18 passes for 192 yards, no touchdowns, no interceptions, and a 97.5 passer rating.[79] On December 18, Barkley completed 30 passes for 362 yards, two touchdowns and three interceptions as the Bears nearly upset the Green Bay Packers, ultimately losing 30–27 on a last-second field goal. It was the most yards by a Bears quarterback in a game against Green Bay in the rivalry's history.[80] Barkley struggled in the following week's game against the Washington Redskins, a 41–21 loss; although he threw for 323 yards and two touchdown passes, he also threw five interceptions, including on four consecutive drives in the second half. The five interceptions were the most by a Bears quarterback since Cutler threw five in 2009.[81]

So who you going to sign as a the #3 who's clearly better than Barkley and would sign for about the same amount of money? Saw your post above to about finding someone better in the draft. Unless you'd like to see the Bills use their 1st round pick on the #3 QB, I think it's pretty laughable if you think you're going to find someone that could play better than Barkley for the 2022 season. Maybe if they get real lucky a guy they draft in the 5th or 6th round might be better than Barkley in 2 to 3 years. Even if they drafted him in the 1st round, with this years QB class, you'd still be lucky if he turn out better.

Barkey was let go because they had Trubisky and Webb (and even Fromm for half the season) backing up the QB position, all of which are now gone. There was better talent there. IMO Barkley was brought back because he knows the offense and if due to injuries needed to play, could step in. Would it look good, would they win, likely would have to be against a weaker team to have a shot. Admittedly not setting the bar very high, but how many teams have a 3rd string QB as good as Barkley, doubt many. The one thing the Bills don't need is a development QB as Allen's not going anywhere for a long time, so why not bring in a vet instead as the #3?

He was a good signing on my Fantasy team about 3 years back.

OK but what your not doing is subtracting out the cap hits of the last 4 players as they now drop off and will become #51 thru #54. Gentry thru Harris salaries will no longer count so that saves about $3.1 mil. So $5.6 minus $3.1 = $2.5 additional needed. In your example above you state #1 pick is $2.6 and now your removing $.7, nets to $1.9 mil NOT $2.5 mil. Did you instead of taking away $700k or .7 mil take it as $70k or .07 mil. Then it would be $2.5 mil. There's still 6 guys who aren't even listed with salaries, Barkley, Lee, |Lawson, Phillips, Johnson so the salaries coming off will even be higher then for the rookies, more like the next four are all in the $900k range so that adds up to $3.6 dropping off. Think we're both understanding it correct, but maybe your calculator needs a new battery?? LOL

Why you counting Speedy with the rookies?? Agree about he $2 mil reserves part. The question was how much money is required to SIGN the rookies. Signing them occurs late spring, you're looking at who made the 53 man roster two very different things from a money standpoint. For signing them, only the top 51 salaries are included in the cap so only somewhere around $3 mil is needed, and maybe a little less as the 5th or 6th round pick makes less money than the 51st ranked player salary on the roster so isn't included. Once September rolls around only the players that make the roster count towards the cap If 5 picks make the active roster, likely means some other vets got cut along with their salary which was higher than a 5th or 6th round pick. Can't recall last year what vets were cut, but 2 years ago Hauska was cut, a much higher salary than say a six round pick who in this case ironically happened to be the rookie Bass. So if anything was a cap savings. Another year McCoy was cut, big savings. Will there be last minute signings of vets sure, but that's down the road. Now they need to keep around $3 mil for the rookies.

Think it will be a CB, the best one available, one ideally with long arms and a good tackler

As of now there are still 3 guys the Bills signed without contract values per Spotrac so the three you mention bumping for the rookies will actually be bumped off this week for them. in addition there likely will be others signed between now and then bumping off even more. To do that likely means other contracts will either be re-done or players cut. By the time the rookies sign the 51 cutoff will likely be higher. Think that means less money needed for the rookies?? Your math says a bit over $2 mil, but historically the number has been higher so not sure if we're missing something else?? Looking too at Groot and Bashams contracts from last year when we were drafting lower makes the numbers a bit higher, Groot was $2.1 mil which likely will go up some this year just because it's a year later. I know those were the numbers of Spotrac, but they somehow don't look quite right, but certainly not double. Saw another thread about Bills having highest payroll in the league, haven't read it yet, but that could explain why much less money this year needed for rookies as their 51 cutoff is much higher than other teams and normal?? I was kind of thinking the same about Edmunds. Maybe wouldn't mind signing Edmunds to a short 3 year contract that they can easily get out of after year 1 or 2, but he wants longer and larger. Agree too about kicking can down the road at end of a franchise QB's run. Tampa kind of did that to a lesser degree thought not so much due to Bradys contact, just in general, same with Rams, they may be in more serious trouble as have few good draft picks and Stafford is no spring chicken. Green Bay should be in that mode, but never seem to be.

Think it's more than $2 mil but less than $6 mil, maybe in the $4.5 mil range?? That's not exactly correct. Until the final cut downs in September, only the top 51 plays salaries count towards the cap. For a team picking at #25, likely means only the players selected in the 1st 4 rounds would factor in. A player taken in the 5th round for example would have a salary below the 51st highest player so doesn't count. Once final cutdowns occur, then the 53 players on the roster all count. So assuming the Bills do keep 5 to 6 of their draft picks, that means 5 to 6 other players got cut, some likely with a higher salary the a 5th or 6th round draft pick. So you can't just look at Spotrac and take the totals of the first 5 or 6 picks Based on the number of players currently on the roster, it looks like the last 7 players or so on the roster won't count. As more players are added the number not counting goes up.

Completely agree. Sounds like he wasn't in favor of Rex and not sure he really wanted Marrone either. Not sure I'd blame RW much though as by the time Whaley arrived RW had kind of turned everything over to Russ Brandon, which there lies the problem. Do think Whaleys problem was he wasn't forceful enough, when Marrone and Rex was pushed by Brandon, he didn't scream NO loud enough, he just would go along with everything.