CincyBillsFan

No it wasn't. When Mahommes was drafted we didn't even know Allen was coming out for the 2018 draft. Had Allen not impressed the Bills prior to the draft we would have taken Josh Rosen or maybe dealt up to grab Darnold. Again, the ONLY Bills QB you can compare Mahomes to is Tyrod. Because if the bills were not satisfied with Tyrod at that time then they may have taken Mahommes or Watson. Now if you want to criticize the Bills front office & caches for not appreciating how great Mahommes was going to be, go for it. Andy Reid deserves all the credit in the world for spotting this diamond in the rough. But it has NOTHING to do with Josh Allen today.

Do you think that at the time of the NFL draft in 2017 Allen was high on the Bills radar or that they were planning to take him with the 7th pick in the 2018 draft. My point was that the Bills did not pass on Mahomes becasue Allen MIGHT be available in 2018. And I stand by that point.

As for the game, clearly Mahomes is a top 3 QB in the NFL. The guy makes plays. But let's not forget that he has an elite offensive line as evidenced on that last screen pass that went for a TD. Did you see how well that was blocked!

Why would it put any pressure on Allen? The trade had nothing to do with Allen and everything to do with Tyrod. Wasn't the reason the Bills wern't interested in a QB in the 2017 draft because they thought Tyrod was good enough? This desire to compare Allen and Mahomes is weird.

You are aware that when the Bills passed on Mahomes they probably hadn't even heard of Allen? Ditto for Watson. I find this whole "oh I wish we drafted Mahomes" to be weird. I'm sure several other teams wish they'd take him to.

First thanks for linking to this article. I don't seek out national sports writers to read because I find them to generally be pretty piss poor at their job. So if I don't see it here on Two Bills Drive then I don't see it. And like others have said it is good to get outside our comfort zones and check out what others are saying about our team and our new QB. But when I read one of these articles I look to see if there are statements delivered as "fact" that I know from my own observations are not. And this article is full of them. A few of my issues with Barwell's summary of the rookie QB's: * I don't like that he supposedly looked at only the last 2 games closely and presumably didn't look at all their games closely. So what the hell is that supposed to tell us? The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a rookie QB IMO is whether they are getting better and making progress. By definition his "analysis" can't answer that critical question. * His take on the throw to Clay at the end of the game against the Dolphins was flat out wrong. That Clay stood there flat footed in the end zone moving to the ball to late; then stumbling so what little movement he made was to little; and then not caching a ball that hit him square in the hands is the correct description of that play. And I'm not seeing it through rose tinted pro Allen glasses to say that. * After finishing his biased take on Allen I dove into his take on Darnold and right away was disappointed. If this guy ONLY looked at the last 2 games then how can he make a big deal about the lack of pass protection for Darnold and not Allen. I mean he just watched a game where Allen was HIT TEN TIMES by the Jets and Darnold was not touched ONCE by a Bill. I could go on but it's a waste of electronic letters to further react to this guy. BTW, I have no problem with objective criticism of Allen. I agree with those who say he has a LOT OF WORK to do and that there are elements of his game that need to improve. But that being said it's not "homerism" to believe we may have found the franchise QB that has eluded us for 20 years. Allen remains a work in progress and he may fall short of expectations but right now he's improving by the game and has already showed us stuff that qualifies as a big fat wow!

I'll take a stab at responding to these 3 points Biscuit: 1) The truth of the matter is that the QB who got us into the playoffs last year was named Andy Dalton. 2) The O-line was MUCH better. The WORST type of pressure a QB can face is when it comes right up the middle. Losing your two BEST O-linemen who happen to play guard & center guaranteed that Allen would face problems up the gut that Tyrod didn't have to deal with. One can only imagine how much better Allen's passing stats would be if he could reliably step up into a pocket to make his throws. 5) I think that Allen has significantly outperformed Rosen to date. He's shown himself to be a better passer and a much better runner and leader.

Wow your overall summary hit the nail on the head! That's exactly what my take on reading this was. I thought his description of Rosen was especially embarrassing.

Yes and it makes Allen's current progress all the more remarkable.

Alternatively Anderson, Barkley & Peterman threw a LOT of check down passes that aren't exactly a challenge to catch. Of course these check down throws to mediocre play makers often result in gains of 6 yards on 3rd & 9. Remember a check down pass to Gurlly, Kemora or McCaffrey works because they are elite level play makers out of the backfield. The Bills aren't blessed with that level of talent.

If the defense accepts the penalty then the play never happened so nothing is entered into the stats.

It's amazing Allen wasn't sacked on this play.

I think Cleveland is ecstatic about Mayfield and is having no regrets. I suspect both Buffalo & the Jets are optimistic about their QB selections and with good reason. I figure that the Ravens are still trying to figure out how they would use Jackson as a QB over the next 5 years. My guess is that only Arizona may be having 2nd thoughts. First we know they made a strong bid to get Allen. And my concern with Rosan wouldn't be so much his on field production, given that he's playing in a very bad offense, my concern would be that I'm not seeing the intangibles (leadership, grit & making those around him better) that would suggest he'll be a top level QB in the way I've seen them out of both Allen & Darnold. But then again 2 years from now we may be having a completely different discussion as we're still very early in the careers of all these guys.

This is a fact that often gets ignored when comparing the two QB's - especially in Buffalo. Agree 100% with this. BOTH Rosen AND Allen have been dumped into bad offensive situations. But to suggest that Rosn's supporting cast on offense is substantially worse then Allen's seems crazy to me.

Great article and I think it was fair because Quinn pointed out something that a lot of the National football media seems to ignore - Allen has very little help from his offensive teammates. If you look at the rankings of how the QB's have played to date Quinn get's it right by putting Mayfield at the top and Allen second. Talk that Allen may have a higher upside is just talk at this point. Hopefully over the next 10 years this becomes a raging debate. Because if it does it means Allen is that guy for us.

Given the pressure Allen was under the throw was one of the 5 best passes in the NFL this season to date. The route run by the receiver was excellent - speed kills baby! The catch though was pedestrian. EVERY NFL WR should make that catch; almost all College WR's should make that catch; a good number of High School WR's will make that catch and on Thanksgiving day some over weight Turkey eaters will make that catch in the back yard.

Nice effort to do this. A couple of points: * As others have noted you missed the Clay drop in the 1st quarter. * I'm not sure how to handle throwaways as they are not necessarily bad passes. In fact I think we all can agree that it would have been good if he threw that first INT pass away. * Down & distance also have a big impact on passing accuracy. Unlike most Bill's QB's over the last 20 years Allen actually tries to throw the ball PAST the 1st down marker on 2nd & 3rd and long. * You state that throwing 7 inaccurate passes in 36 attempts is terrible by NFL standards. But is that true? Short of going back and charting a couple of random QB's who threw between 35 - 40 passes how do we know this? In my experience watching a typical NFL game in which a QB throws over 35 passes I typically see what I would call 5 - 10 bad throws. The other night in the Rams/Bears game featuring two of the better QB's in the league I believe that if we chartered their every throw both would have had bad throw percentages in the 20% range.

Very superficial review IMO. I don't get these guys dwelling on ONE PLAY. It was a bad INT we get it - I bet Allen does to. You know what, if he makes that throw 2 - 3 times a SEASON I can live with it as long as he makes a whole lot of big plays along the way. Last night I watched two of the better NFL QB's make some bad throws. Together these guys threw SIX INTERCEPTIONS - everyone of which looked to be a very bad throw. A fair and instructive review of Allen's passing game yesterday would obviously talk about the stupid INT he threw. But it would also showcase that wonderful throw from the pocket out of the end zone to convert a 3rd & 13. Allen showed nice understanding of the defense by using a fake throw to draw the safety away and then deliver an absolute laser strike to convert a HUGE 3rd down. I'm fine with these guys talking to me about Allen's inconsistency - that's a fair topic and provides us with a better understanding of where Allen is and isn't progressing. But to obsess over A SINGLE BAD THROW which did not result in points for the Jets or deprive the Bills of points (it was a 1st & 25 play) is a sign of a couple of guys who want to prove that Allen is not very good. I think it simply comes down to the fact that Allen rose real fast in last years draft and very few of these so called "experts" called it out that he would be a top 10 pick. Then in spite of their histrionic protestations that no one should waste a 1st round pick on him the Bills went and did just that. It's like these guys were insulted that the Bills didn't listen them. IMO, so far so good with Allen. He has slightly exceeded my expectations and I had fairly high ones. He still has a lot to work on and we won't know for another couple of years whether he's the "guy". I'm fully aware of his current shortcomings but don't think that any of them are critical or things that he can't overcome. Whether he does will only be seen in the test of time. But I'm also a Bills fan and I want Allen to succeed badly. Why? Because if he doesn't we are back to the starting point in landing a franchise QB. That means we just lost 3 - 4 years and guaranteed that there will be no playoff runs while looking forward to a succession of mediocre wannabe QB's. Why would any rational Buffalo Bills fan want that?

Three of Allen's first four drives were "good" and resulted in 17 points. Had Clay held on to the ball on the play BEFORE Allen lost the fumble and we might be talking about Allen having FOUR straight good drives to start the game. Allen also had an excellent drive to close out the 1st half keeping the ball away from the Jets after the Bills were pinned deep in their own territory and giving them a chance to go into the locker room with 3 more points. It's not Allen's fault that a 49 yard FG attempt was blocked. Allen also had an excellent drive to put the Bills up 23 - 20 with 2 minutes left in the game. So by my count credit Allen with 5 good drives.

But there won't be a free ride for the defenses if they try to take away Allen's run game. Something has to give and while we probably won't see it this year as the Bills just don't have the RB (with Shady out) and TE personnel to exploit a team determined to take away Allen's running game, we should see it next year after we've updated the offense. I agree with you about the NE game. Belicheck will move heaven & earth to stop Allen from running for 100 yards. If Allen can still make chunk plays on the ground against NE we might want to start considering that it's not easy to shut this aspect of his game down. I mean he has done it THREE games in a row which is unusual for a QB in the NFL. Clearly, no one has figured out how to stop Allen yet on the ground. Bingo! This is why we've struggled somewhat in the red zone. Think about it: Bills ball on their own 40 yard line with a 2nd & 5. Allen can throw the ball on a rope 35 yards or he can stiff arm a LB and run for 20 yards. That puts the defense in a bind because they have to cover a lot of field. Fast forward to the red zone where the field shrinks and the Bills don't have the TE/RB talent to catch a pass in tight spaces for a TD. Think about Gronk or KC's Kelcey or Komarra or McCaffrey. It's hard to stop those guys in the red zone. What do the Bills have beyond Allen running at that point? And now in the red zone the safeties don't have to worry about anything over 25 yards.

I believe the Jones drop put us in a 3rd and long instead of a 3rd and short and that we failed to convert and had to punt. But the biggest drop for the 2nd week in a row was one by Clay. On 2nd & 7 he drops a nice throw that hit him in stride on a play that looks like it might have gone for 30 yards or more. So instead of 3rd & 7 we would have been deep in Jet's territory. On the next play Allen try's to run and is stripped of the ball which the Jet's recover and convert into a FG. So instead of going up 10 or 14 - 0 in the first quarter it's 7 - 3. That drop WAS a big play given how the game turned out.

Based on what? In a game where the Bills couldn't generate a running game outside of Allen scrambles and on a day when the O-line couldn't pass block we would have won because presumably Barkley would have been more accurate and efficient in checking down to Murphy on 3rd & long?

I'm concerned about BOTH types of catches. Imagine game outcomes and Allen's passing stats if both of these things were true: * fewer drops and, * 1 or 2 highlight reel catches a game. Add those things up and what do you have: wins against the Jets & Dolphins and another 75 - 100 yards added to Allen's passing stats.

The Allen highlight reel showed me four things: * he made a number of excellent touch throws particularly on the first two TD drives. * to watch the multiple 3rd down & long plays he converted with superb throws and then claim that Allen regressed in his passing game is to be deliberately obtuse. * when Allen had time and could stand tall in the pocket he delivered some laser beams. * with the exception of the TD run Allen's runs had two distinguishing features: 1) they chewed up chunk yardage and 2) he didn't take any real hits when running.

A better question for this thread would have been: "has any Buffalo WR, TE or RB made a catch worthy of showing over & over again on ESPN"? The answer is ONE and that was the DeMarco garb of a poorly thrown Allen pass on a wheel rout. I do not recall a single other catch by a receiver that wasn't a better pass by Allen then catch by the receiver.