CincyBillsFan

IMO the only reason the WR's looked borderline acceptable was that the Bills were facing the weakest defense they have seen all season. I had the opposite reaction to this game then you did in that it seems to me QB is not the main problem of this offense. I can't think of a team in which any of the Bills receivers or TE's would start. I'm not sure there are any teams out there where these guys would see the field at all. They are that bad. Until we can assemble competent skill players around whoever is QBing the Bills we can't really judge how good the QB is.

I thought the WR play was poor today as it's been all season. They seldom break open and on Anderson's last INT the Bills WR was knocked off his route and the DB then ran the route, knocked the pass into the air for an easy INT. That shouldn't happen in college ball let alone the NFL. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record going into today's game the Indy defense was by far the weakest defense the Bills had played this year - 24th in yardage given up and 30th in points given up. So any better play you saw with our receivers had everything to do with Indy's weak pass rush, 4th quarter prevent defense with a big lead and poor DB play.

To take your point a step further here's how the 3 QB's compare playing a common opponent within a months time: Allen 15 - 22 - 196 - 1 TD - 0 INT; notes = Allen had 2 rushing TD's & Bills won game 27 - 6 Rosen 21 - 31 - 240 - 0 TD - 1 INT; notes = Cards lost game 27 - 17 Darnold 17 - 42 - 206 - 1 TD - 3 INT; note = Darnold lost 2 fumbles & Jets lost game 37 - 17 Allen & Rosen played at Minnesota while Darnold was at home. Now to be clear this is a very limited data set BUT it's the only pretty clean comparison we have between the 3 QB's versus a common opponent within a pretty tight time window. My point is that so far there is no cumulative evidence that Rosen & Darnold are out performing Allen. All you can say is that all 3 have struggled and each has shown flashes of brilliance. And given that Allen was supposed to be way behind the other 2 you could argue that he's exceeding expectations.

Number can lie with the best of them. Consider the rankings of the defenses each of the rookie QB's have gone against. Allen has faced the toughest D's by far.

Overall Anderson played poorly but it had more to do with how little time he's been on the roster and the fact that Buffalo has assembled one of the two worst offensive teams in the NFL this year. Frankly I can't think of a single NFL team with wide receivers & tight ends as bad as the Bills. Let's not forget that Indy was the 24th rated defense in giving up yardage and the 30th rated defense in giving up points. This was the weakest defense Buffalo has played this year. Today's game also tied with the Packers & Ravens games for the worst offensive performance of the year. The only difference is that the Packers & Ravens are top 5 defenses and the Colts are not - by a long stretch.

Ugly. Very Ugly. Getting blown out by a 1 - 5 team is a bit much. This game did shed some light on several questions that have been bouncing around: * Any doubts that there is almost no talent on the offense outside of Shady & Ivy were answered today. Let's not forget that going into the game Indy had the 24th rated defense by yards and the 30th rated defense by points given up. By any definition the Colts are a bad defense. In spite of this Buffalo could only score a FG on offense and had FIVE TO's. * Another question that was answered for me is that our offense is better with Allen in at QB then anyone else on the roster. It's actually surprising that the rookie QB is more careful with the ball then our more experienced QB's. * How bad were our receivers today. Remember how on Andersen's last INT the Bills WR was pushed off his route by the DB who then ran the route and should have intercepted the pass (it bounced off his hands to get intercepted by a safety). And poor Andersen gets credited with the INT. * In the long run having a top 5 pick which we can then trade away for a boatload of picks is the silver lining on this cluster frack of a season. Oh and for those saying "draft a QB" - No, Allen will be fine. After seeing Rosen and then Darnold (17 - 42 - 206 - 1TD - 3INT) show out as typical rookie QB's Allen will be fine.

I saw the game a lot differently then you did that's for sure. Rosen was a wreck out there. He missed several open receivers, threw 3 INTs and should have had 2 more. Was careless with the ball fumbling 3 times & losing 2 of them. His poor start doomed Arizona as they were down 21 - 3 in the 1st largely due to Rosen miscues. He also appeared to make several audibles on the run game and every time the play went for nothing. Denver was clearly fooling him into thinking he could change the run play/blocking. Most disturbing if I was an Arizona fan was Rosen's demeanor which was piss poor. He openly threw a fit a couple of times after things didn't go his way which won't earn you many friends when your a rookie that's thrown 2 pick-sixes. Now does last nights game mean Rosen won't be a great NFL QB? Absolutely not. All we saw was what happens when a rookie QB with a weak O-line goes up against a team with a decent pass rush. Kind of like what Allen has faced this year only that in addition to a struggling O-line Allen has very little receiver talent around him. My bet is that both Allen & Rosen will be at worst solid NFL QB's. But only TIME will tell. What I won't accept is any suggestion that Rosen is the better QB then Allen. Last night should put that to rest.

That's fair and while I think the Cards have a better assortment of receiver options for Rosen then the Bills have for Allen their O-line is clearly inferior to the Bills. But to also be fair the improvement in the Bills O-line play is due to both better play by the Bills linemen and Allen's mobility.

It may not be teaching us anything about Allen but it sure as hell is calibrating Allen's performance relative to one of the other rookie QB's.

Long time lurker though. My point was just that Bills fans and I suspect Cards fans are going to be comparing Rosen & Allen for as long as both are in the NFL. And for the record I think they'll both have long NFL careers. BTW, why the hell is Rosen still out there? Do they want to get him killed?

Disagree, for reasons beyond either QB's control Allen & Rosen are joined at the hip because of the actions of their teams on draft day. Hell, we're posting on a thread titled "The Rosen Era has Begun in Arizona" on a freaking Buffalo Bills message board! That is weird if you think about it.

Wrong. Rosen is teaching a lot of people on this board that rookie QB's playing on bad offenses tend to struggle big time. On top of that it seems like since the day Allen was drafted by Buffalo, there have been a lot of Bills fans complaining that we should have drafted Rosen. It may not be right but a performance like this by Risen does take some of the pessure off Allen.

Is it me or has every run audible Rosen made at the LOS resulted in either no gain or a loss?

Can we all agree that Fitzgerald is a far better receiver today then KB is? It's clear that he's Rosen's security blanket.

This is a good example of why you have to be careful with stats. Rosen got a TD pass on a nice throw but during that drive the Broncos dropped 2 INT's. Again, I'm not seeing anything tonight that would suggest that Rosen is ahead of Allen.

It's inevitable that the two will be compared. And when you have hundreds (or is it thousands) of posts on this message board arguing that the Bills should have drafted Rosen over Allen what else would you expect?

If I was an Arizona Cards fan this is what would have me worried. Say what you will about Allen and his struggles he's never thrown the fits I've seen Rosen throw in the 1st half tonight. Not a good look IMO.

Okay when it mattered Rosen was 8/17 for 60 yards and with 2 INT's. His completion percentage is under 50% with less then 3.5 yards and attempt. The reason I post these stats is that you have to assume Denver will go into a big time prevent defense and that Rosen will have much better stats.

Great catch. This guy is a tool and I guess tools are going to tool.

Fair to say that Rosen is flustered. Missed an open guy badly and is clearly feeling the heat of the pass rush. Almost had another pick 6 on that weak side line pass.

Rookie QB's on bad offensive teams equals bad QB play. I agree with you about Allen having the "it" factor. In a couple of years when both Josh's are doing well that may be the point of difference.

Look for Rosen's numbers to improve as Denver goes into a prevent defense.

If you look at the Cleveland versus Chargers game, Mayfield had about exactly the same amount of success that Allen did.

I wanted Allen over Rosen. But frankly even after this entire season you're not going to know which one of these guys was the better pick. For sure we can't judge them game to game. The one thing we can say is that both QB's have struggled as would be expected for rookies playing on poor offenses. I will say that Rosen seems to have better skill position talent surrounding him then Allen does.

I was born in Rochester and slowly became a Bills fan by osmosis on Sunday afternoons. What cemented it for me was when I was 10 my dad & a couple of the other fathers in our neighborhood took us kids on a road trip to see a game at the Rock Pile. As a kid growing up in Rochester I thought of Buffalo as a far away place where you went on vacation to see the zoo or Niagara Falls! Anyway the game we saw was against the Boston Patriots and even though OJ didn't play that day the Bills won the game and I was hooked. I attended a few more games during junior high & high school and have to admit that with the Bills being awful I also rooted for the KC Chiefs who won the Super Bowl in 1970. But OJ's amazing 2000 yard season in 1974 brought me back into the fold and returned me to football monogamy. One game I remember while still in high school was a trip to Rich Stadium to watch the Bills play the Vikings. It was a massive snow storm and I got to see a couple of NFL TD records set by OJ & Fran Tarkenton. The Bills lost but what stuck in my mind was the constant barrage of snowballs that were flying out of the stands and crashing on top of the Vikings sideline. I mean it was HUNDREDS of snow balls constantly falling among the Viking players & coaches. We were seated in the open end zone high up and so our view of this snow ball Armageddon was surrealistic. Even as a HS kid I knew it was wrong yet there was a certain beauty to it all as the snow balls rose up from the stands and then descended in a graceful arc to smash into the Vikings bench. At that point a reality hit me as a Bills fan - win or lose, Bills games could still be a blast! I guess my favorite memory was when the Bills ended the Miami winning streak at Rich Stadium on opening day of the 1980 season. By that time I was in college at UB and as I recall the weather was beautiful with the sun out and it actually being hot. As college students attending the game and taking full advantage of the tail gating the game was a blur but I do remember that the Bills kept turning the ball over as if some weird curse was in play. Then they got 2 TD's in the 4th quarter to win and the fans stormed the field and tore down the goal posts. I guess this is where the term PANDEMONIUM to describe a Bills game got started? If not, it should have! And of course the super bowl run was amazing. At the time it left a bitter taste in my mouth but over the years I've come to realize the greatness of the achievement. No one will ever again go to 4 straight Super Bowls. No one.