CincyBillsFan

As usual the NFL almost ruined a good old fashioned snoberknocker game with an overabundance of flags. This league needs to sort out the officiating before they strangle the goose laying all those golden eggs. My takes from the game: * The defense was both great and bad today. On the positive side the goal line stand was huge and the 2 INT's and a couple of 3 & outs showed folks why this defense is one of the best in the NFL. On the negative side the Bills were manhandled up front in the 2nd quarter as the Jags ran it down their throat. In today's game the Buffalo offense didn't disappear in the 2nd quarter after exploding out to a 14 - 0 1st quarter lead - they simply didn't get many opportunities as the Jags held the ball most of the quarter. * Josh Allen had a very good game. He didn't show any rust and his game today is an example of why stats can be misleading. The TD pass was one of the best throws I've seen any Bills QB make. This was the play that showed why the Bills took Allen and why some scouts thought Allen had the most upside of any of the rookie QB's. Keep in mind had the Bills not committed penalties on 2 straight 3rd down conversions that Allen made (3r & 5 great roll out throw & 3rd & 15 great pocket pass for a 1st down) in the 2nd quarter the Bills would have got at least a FG on that drive. And lets not forget the beautiful 35 yard pass that Allen threw that was dropped. That also was a drive that likely would have gone for at least a FG. * It seemed to me that the game has slowed down for Allen. Those on this thread who said he still struggled in the pocket are flat out wrong. I thought Allen's pocket presence was outstanding today as he moved very well and kept his eyes down field. Except for maybe 3 passes his throws were on target or smart throw away's to avoid the sack. To be honest the pass protection was not great today and Allen's mobility allowed the Bills to avoid several sacks. My other take-away is that Allen has that IT factor. The way he interacts with his teammates and how they respond to him is clear to see. No pouting like Rosen with this guy. He is hard nosed and tough. * As far as Allen's running goes - this is who he is. It will always be a big part of his game. In this way he resembles Cam Newton and while an injury is always possible Allen's legs are a big part of why he will soon emerge as a serious dual threat QB. Think about his 2 big runs today. The first was the TD run. It's not easy for this team to score red zone TD's and that 14 yard TD run was a thing of beauty. His 45 yard run in the 4th flipped the field big time and contributed to the win. If anything I want to see them use the read option more with Allen & McCoy, much like Carolina uses it with McCaffrey & Newton. * Notice how some of the western NY sports writers have been lukewarm about Allen's performance today. Mostly the usual suspects who went in thinking they were going to write Allen's obituary and instead had to begrudgingly acknowledge that he exceeded expectations. I don't get it. From the very beginning some of these guys have acted like drafting Allen was a personal affront. The kid seems to be perfect for Buffalo as he truly likes the city, the fans and his opportunity to play for the Bills. * I thought that the offensive game plan was very well constructed. Sure the Bills got to conservative once they had the lead but that's how this team is built. * The Bills need to do something about the penalties. To cancel out back to back 3rd & long conversions is simply unacceptable. And having to many guys on the field on a punt giving the Jags a 1st down is beyond stupid. They need to clean this up ASAP.

The way I answered the question is that when I die this century effectively dies from my POV so I'm not thinking of it as 80 more years. And my answer assumes that after I die I don't get to sit up their in Heaven in my lounge chair drinking a Molson Golden while looking down and watching my beloved Bills play. On 2nd thought that might be the definition of HELL! Never mind!

At present I would say NO in spite of it being a remarkably low bar. But I believe that when all is said and done Allen will not only be the best Bills QB of this century but right up there with the Bill's Giants of the previous century. As an aside, does any NFL franchise have a weaker list of QB's in the 21st century then the Buffalo Bills? Sometimes when you write it down it makes it look even worse then you remember it. But then again that 18 year streak of missing the playoffs has a reason.

We should draft a new QB every year and if hey don't look good in the week 3 exhibition game declare them a bust and sign a guy who hasn't played in the NFL for at least 3 months. If that guy has a good game in his first outing then the Bills should ignore his history and declare him the franchise QB. When he inevitably fails by seasons end, we start the whole process all over again!

From the day Allen was drafted there has been an irrational dislike of the guy. It's hidden among a flurry of passive-aggressive verbiage like "I hope Allen works out but I know he's a bust" (what the heck is that?). Sure the guy is a raw talent but he has incredible physical tools; seems to have the right attitude; comes across as a decent person and loves playing in Buffalo. And while there were draft gurus who thought the Bills reached for Allen there were others who believed he had the highest upside of ANY of the rookie QB's. And we know for a fact that Arizona made a strong push to take Allen ahead of the Bills. I mean regardless of how Allen plays Sunday this whole notion that they should have gone with Barkley is crazy.

The way I see it is I'll be thrilled if Allen follows in Goff's footsteps. You know, declared a "bust" his rookie season then surrounded with talent in his 2nd year and now in his 3rd year functioning as an elite level QB leading a 10 - 1 team. Now that would be sweet and Allen would still be on his rookie contract. Have I missed anything?

Fun game to watch and agree with those saying that young QB's with a gunslinger mentality like Mahomes should be forcing the ball which results in interceptions. A couple of observations: * I liked how Mahomes tried to keep the guy out of the end zone after the fluke INT. Most QB's would have just stood there and watched the defender run it in but Mahomes put some real effort into keeping him out. It was probably foolish for him to do what he did but I liked the effort. * While the game was fun to watch it wasn't IMO an "instant classic". Way to many penalties and some of those flags seemed to be for nothing. I also noticed how late in the game the refs went into a hockey mindset and wouldn't call obvious holds by both teams for fear of impacting the outcome. I still say one of the biggest problems facing the NFL is to many penalties and even worse the calls are often very inconsistent because so many of the rules are subjective. * I haven't read this thread from the beginning so excuse me if this has already been talked about but did others catch the announcers describing the #1 factor in Goff going from a "bust" his rookie year to being an elite QB today? They were pretty clear that coaching made all the difference. Does this apply to the current Bills situation? I mean any staff that thought Peterman was a starting NFL QB can't exactly be called QB savvy.

I see this game looking a lot like the Tennessee game - low scoring and the Bills pull it out at the end. And for the record, Allen will be continuing his streak of playing against the toughest defenses in the NFL. My sense is he'll have a mediocre game against Jacksonville but the defense will carry us. After the Jags though things get a lot easier for the rookie QB as he'll finally NOT be playing top ranked defenses. To put things in perspective Allen has gone against: Baltimore - about 2 quarters on the road LA Chargers - full game Vikings - full game on the road Packers - full game on the road Titans - full game Texans - 3 quarters on the road. Those are some very tough defenses Allen has faced and now he has to face another tough one in the Jags. This is why the last 5 games of the season are interesting - there will be a big drop in the caliber of defenses he has faced and we might actually start to see some real progress with Allen. This is why Allen plays the last 6 games.

Beebe was a very underrated receiver. He was like the offenses version of the defenses Phil Hansen. I still remember his 4 TD receiving day against Pittsburgh and of course it was his 40 yard TD catch that started the Bills on their epic comeback against Houston.

I disagree. Allen opened the game leading the Bills on a 9 play 75 yard drive to put Buffalo up 7 - 0 and set the tone for the day. Later in the half Allen led the Bills on an 11 play 65 yard TD drive. And we can argue all day about subjective stuff like which QB had more breaks in their game though I doubt the Vikings drop those two INT's that Barkley almost threw. But one thing I do know for sure is that Minnesota has a better defense then the NY Jets and is a playoff contender. I also suspect that the Jets laid down Sunday. As far as "consistency" goes I'm not sure how you can claim Barkley is more consistent than Allen based on ONE game? Keep in mind that Allen quarterbacked the Bills through the toughest schedule in the NFL. It's hard for a rookie QB to be consistent surrounded by mediocre (at best) offensive talent while playing the hardest schedule in the league. At this point given the high level of competition he has faced; the lack of offensive tools at his disposal and the fact that he's a raw rookie, I don't see how Allen can remind someone of anyone currently in the NFL. We just haven't seen enough of his work to know much of anything. That's why he needs to play the rest of this year and all of next year before we can decide who he is.

A couple of opinions on common themes in these Barkley/Allen threads: * Barkley has earned another start. WTH is this? So now the criteria for earning a starting job by a back-up QB is to play a solid game. Isn't this why they brought Barkley in. * Go with Barkley, who has the "hot hand". Who cares if Barkley has the hot hand or not. Does Fitz having had a hot hand alter the fact that Tampa Bay will be desperately looking for a QB in the off season? * The ultimate upside with Barkley as the Bills QB is 8 - 8. Look familiar? So folks want to put off developing a franchise QB (or finding out that he isn't the guy) because we might win a couple more games with Barkley? For the last 20 years the Bills have occupied football's equivalent of PURGATORY (though I would call it hell) where they hang around 500 and everyone points to next year as the year - over & over & over & over & over & over &.......Again. Count me out. * What if Allen looks bad? Then we learn something. And if Allen stinks up the show against Jacksonville he still starts the next week and the week after that. That we're even having this debate in Billsland is amazing to me. Allen may or may not be the guy to lead us out of the football wilderness we've occupied the last 20 years but he offers us at least a chance to break our cycle of extreme mediocrity. Barkley as a starter is a GUARANTEE that we continue to try to push the boulder up the hill.

I disagree. Allen's overall performance against Minnesota was better IMO. While the passing stats between the two were similar Allen contributed a lot more as a runner. On top of that the Vikings were a much better team then the Jets. I just don't get how folks declare the Barkley effort Sunday, which was good, to be better then Allen's against Minny.

This is the most realistic optimistic take IMO. Though we still have 12 days to dream.................

I would immediately ask the Bills if they were interested in buying out my contract so they could hire someone who knew what the hell they were doing. I would take pennies on the dollar as it would be found money to me! If that didn't work I would ask Bills ownership if I could run the team from my lounge chair while drinking a Molsen Golden. Then I would turn it over to the coaches & players and let them sort things out.

I think the answer to the threads question is a resounding NO. The Jet's looked to much like a team playing in their 4th pre-season game for us to read to much into the result. It is fair to say that the offense showed improvement Sunday and that's a good thing. But I have a nagging concern that we saw a Jet's defense tanking after the loss of their rookie QB. Am I the only one that thought the Jet's D looked a little like ours did against Indy? Let's face it the Indy game was the Buffalo defenses worst game IMO and at times they didn't seem to be trying very hard.

The Bills had their miracle playoff run last year. First & foremost I want to see the young players improve, especially Allen. Winning would just be icing on the cake.

I'm glad McDermott made it clear that Allen was starting if healthy - we don't need to be playing head games with our young QB . I know some folks think this gives McDermoot an out if he wants to go with Barkley but I don't buy that. There is a possibility that Allen regresses on his injury and if he does he shouldn't play. But if he's healthy he will play and McDermott confirmed that today. Letting Peterman go was also the right move and indicates that they're confident Allen will be able to go. As far as Barkley goes, it's important that we may have found a competent back-up. We have to many other needs on offense to be wasting time on securing a back-up QB. But let's be honest here, Barkley's maximum upside is Kyle Orton and that translates to a whole bunch of 7-9 & 8-8 seasons. We've had 20 of these with ONLY ONE playoff appearance to show for it. Allen was an attempt by the organization to break this cycle. It was a risky pick but they did it for Allen's upside. Whether that upside is anywhere near what we think it is can ONLY be determined on the field.

You've identified the downside of starting Allen in 2 weeks. In fact I would argue that your point might be the likeliest outcome of starting Allen against Jacksonville. That's why it's incumbent on McDermott to make it crystal clear that as long as he stays healthy Allen is playing the final 6 games. A single game, good or bad, won't impact this. We fans will scream and the moron sports writers will pontificate but in the end there's only a QB controversy if McDermott and the Bills screw this up. IMO they screw this up by playing head games with Allen over who starts in 2 weeks. Now if the Bills were 5 - 5 and Barkley had a track record of success along the lines of Fitz, I would also be saying sit the rookie and go with the hot hand. But none of these things apply here.

I agree and it's interesting reading the Western NY sports media this morning and seeing a couple of them claim that Barkley's performance yesterday was BY FAR the best by a Bills QB. Huh? Barkley was 15 - 25 for 232 yards & 2 TD's with a QB rating of 117.4. Meanwhile against Minnesota Allen was 15 - 22 - 196 - 1 TD with a QB rating of 111.2. Seems about the same to me. But when you add in Allen's 2 rushing TD's AND the FACT that the Vikings are a much better team then the Jets and it takes a special kind of sports writer to claim Barkley has had the best QB outing to date for Buffalo this year.

You make a good point here. Allen is mentally tough enough to handle a poor performance on the field. I even think he could handle being booed by the home fans as a consequence of such a performance. What concerns me is can he handle being jerked around when it comes to starting? A lot of folks have suggested that the Bills should keep starting Barkley until he screws up then put Allen in. The idea is that McDermott can tell the media and fans that Allen isn't 100% healthy yet. But what if Allen is 100% healthy and raring to go what then? Does he play along with the coach and tell folks he's still not healthy? I highly doubt it. So what happens when the media asks Allen about his health. IMO they need to keep this simple if Allen is almost 100% start him.

It's 2 weeks which gives the Bills a chance to come up with an imaginative offensive game plan and fully integrate Allen into it. One of the pleasant surprises for me today was how clever the Bills were on offense. And yes in a perfect world Allen would sit and learn and everyone would have the patience to let this raw talent develop. But this is far from a perfect world. I mean it seems like at least one quarter of the Bills fan base is ready to declare Allen a bust. Whether we like it or not the clock is ticking and I think that at this point he learns more on the field then on the sideline. There's also the fact that Allen has gotten a taste of playing. Sure it was more bad then good but when you hear the guy talk he is chomping at the bit to get back out there. I think that the risk of McDermott not playing him at this point outweighs the risk of playing him. Again Allen was thrown to the wolves and he sort of survived it. Now is not the time to get queasy about him getting back into the fray. But you make a good point. Allen is a rookie and if he gets put back in as the starter he's going to have a couple of bad games in the last 6. And his first game back could be stinker with the home crowd booing him. But because of the mistakes made by the Bills with respect to QB in the off season that's the situation we're stuck with. Maybe the way to look at it that there are two poor options here but one of them is worse then the other.

This is probably something most of us can agree on. At this point the guy is a distraction. It's bad enough that he stole the majority of first team reps over the summer.

I agree that overall Allen didn't play well but he had a gem of a game against Minnesota and led a 4th quarter rally against Tennessee - both teams which are likely to be in the playoffs. In fact Allen faced by far the toughest competition of the Bills QB's this season. I believe every defense he faced is in the top half of the leagues rankings. He started or had significant playing time against a 6 game gauntlet of likely playoff teams. And now I'm deeply curious as to how Allen would do against the next 6 teams of which only 1 is a likely playoff team. IMO the Bills organization should be even more curious then me about this. What it comes down to between the "start Allen" & "start Barkley" folks is what is more important - possibly winning a couple of more games this season or getting a quality read on your top 10 draft pick QB. I get the desire to win games and watch an offense that looks competent. But isn't that what we've been looking at for the last 19 years with ONE playoff appearance to show for it? To me it's an obvious choice - you go all in with Allen until he proves he's either a bust or your franchise QB.

Play Allen & sit Barkley. No one is going to believe that Allen, who was almost able to go today is still not recovered enough to go in 2 weeks. My reasons are simple: * The let Allen sit and learn crowd have a good point ONLY if Allen wasn't named the starter in week 2. At that point "sit & learn" went out the window. There are consequences to benching the 7th pick in the draft for getting injured. Allen had the starting job and when he's healthy, which looks to be now, he gets it back. * We know exactly what we have in Barkley. And it's good news - he looks to be a competent back up QB. However to look at him in any other way is to ignore the mans body of work which was accumulated over 6 years in the NFL. * We think we know what we have in Allen, otherwise he's not a high first round draft pick, but we don't know for sure. It's critical that we find out. And when you spend the 7th pick in the draft on a QB you have to give them at least 2 seasons to make the assessment. If Allen doesn't see the field the rest of the year then we're looking at 2020 before we know whether we've got our guy or if it's back square one at QB. There is NO other question facing this franchise more important then this one. * And it's more then just figuring out if Allen is the guy. Even if he is the guy, we still have to develop him and the only way to do that at this point is to give him NFL reps. And to be fair, in the 6 games that Allen started or had significant playing time, he faced teams that are all probably going to the playoffs. In the last 6 games only New England is a likely playoff team. I for one would like to see what Allen & this offense can do playing defenses that aren't in the top 10. * I think Allen has shown that he's pretty tough mentally but everyone has their limits. So let's say that McDermott goes with Barkley and tries to skirt the issue when questioned by the media by claiming that Allen still isn't 100%? What does Allen say when the media asks him? Do we really want Allen claiming he is healthy and dispute his head coach. Am I the only one that can see how this turns into a mess real fast. This isn't fantasy football here, these are human beings with real emotions and how they react to this kind of stuff can be unpredictable. * Oh and for the record if they start Allen he may very well not play as good as Barkley. Starting Allen is something you do for the long-term good of the franchise. But then again if the Bills think Barkley is their best chance to win then maybe they should trade Allen (I'm being facetious here). As an aside folks bring up Mahonnes but KC was a legit playoff contender and Alex Smith was a PROVEN starting NFL QB. The Bills are not playoff contenders and Barkley is not a starting QB.

Even if Barkley plays well in a couple more games does that really tell us that he's a starting caliber QB? He's had 6 years and a bunch of different opportunities to demonstrate that he's more then a back-up QB. Bottom line is we already know that he's not a starting QB in a way that we don't know about Allen. The goal with Allen going forward is twofold: 1) Develop him as a starting QB that can be the guy for us over the next 10 years AND 2) determine whether he is the guy ASAP so we can cut our ties and move forward if he's not. We can't do either of these things if he's sitting on the bench. When the Bills named Allen the starter in week 2 and he kept that job until he went down with an injury, they lost any chance to sit him down and have him "learn" now. It's like losing your virginity - there's no going back.