CincyBillsFan

Oh great, inbreeding, just what we need in our NFL refs.

The NFL has a problem with to many mouth breathing morons in striped shirts trying to enforce overly complex, subjective rules designed by mouth breathing morons in the front office. The games are getting harder & harder to watch and it sucks that after every big play you have to hold your breath to see if there's a flag or not.

To build on your point, I think it's a good thing that Allen doesn't go to his check down receiver that much. I once heard a coach say that you know a rookie QB is rattled and may be on his way to being a bust when he throws the check down pass to often. IMO the Bills don't have the talent to fully exploit the check down yet: * Shady could be that guy but even he's lost a step and doesn't give us the check down threat that say an Alvin Kamara/Todd Gurly/Christian McCaffrey does. And unlike most NFL teams we don't have anyone at TE that could remotely be considered a check down threat. * For the check down pass to work properly you need to have a viable deep ball threat. It's only been in the last few weeks that the Bills offense put enough speed on the field at receiver to provide that threat. It also takes a QB willing AND able to throw the ball 60 yards downfield. Allen has both of these attributes and while he just missed the 70 yard bomb to Forster don't think for a minute the Jet's safety's won't be studying that play in the film room this week. * But if fans want to see 70% completion percentages they should hope Allen takes a page out of Anderson's play book. I mean the guy was hitting his check down passes at 90%! Think about all those 3rd and 12 plays where he threw the perfect 8 yard completion!

Heck, I'll settle for an off season where he takes most of the first team snaps in practice! Watching a lot of NFL & College football helps define what a "drop" is for me. And the one thing I'm not seeing from Bills TE's/receivers this year are GREAT catches. Think about it, the best catch of a Josh Allen pass was by Demarco in the Chargers game! Heck yesterday in the college football championship games I saw guys making awesome catches all over the place. In the NFL the QB's job is to get the ball close to where the receiver can make a play on it. Receivers who DON'T MAKE AMAZING catches don't last long in the NFL.

And when all is said & done what matters here is that Allen showed a maturity far beyond his years by accepting responsibility for missing a wide open Receiver. He didn't throw Jones or Clay under the bus and that is a far more important thing then winning or losing a meaningless game. And as others have noted this was NOT a case of inaccuracy but miscommunication - a problem easily fixed in practice.

Agree. Folks who are calling it a bad throw are acting like Allen dropped back in the pocket had ALL day to scan the field and then make a throw to a wide open guy in the end zone. Instead Allen was running for his life narrowly avoiding a couple of sacks and then turning and throwing a catch-able ball to the end zone. Frankly, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED it was an incredible throw. As others have noted there are only a couple of QB's in the NFL who could have gotten that ball to Clay and I would add that there's only a couple of QB's in the league who could have escaped the rush and not been sacked.

And this is why I really like Allen a lot. He doesn't throw his teammates under the bus. In the long wrong this is far more important then winning this one game.

Some thoughts on Allen today: * The runs are a part of his game and IMO he should keep doing it. Do people appreciate the acceleration Allen shows as he takes off? And he showed good sense in sliding time after time. The truth is Allen is more likely to get killed in the pocket then running for 20 yards. He is channeling Cam Newton in this part of his game and that's a good thing. * His passing game is improving in every facet. He's scanning the field, checking down on his reads and his throws for the most part were accurate today. The throw to Demarco showed great touch and the 1st TD pass was a stupendous throw. * He drove us down the field and put us in a position to win the game. The throw to Clay on 4th down wasn't his best pass but it was good enough. As Loften said it was like Clay's feet came out from under him as he seemed to get a late start coming back to the ball. And for the record there are a number of TE's in this league who make that catch. BTW, do people realize how far Allen threw that pass after running around eluding tacklers for 75 yards? * Sure Allen made mistakes and he has a lot of things to work on. But today was an example of a day where his play should cause Bills fans to be optimistic about the future. Every week this guy is looking more and more like the real deal. That's what I thought to. For a big body guy he sure does get muscled off the ball a lot. Remember in the first half on that 3rd & 17 in which Allen threw laser to KB 1 yard short of the first and he couldn't push his way past a DB that outweighed by 50 pounds?

Didn't say that. But at what point do the drops and alligator arms start to get to Allen's head? BTW, that TD throw was sweet.

I've seen Allen make that throw at Wyoming before. Great pass!

I don't want to hear anything about Allen's passing accuracy. That was a perfect TD pass. PERFECT! You have to guess that ball. Oh and now a nice Allen TD run coming back.

Agree on his first couple of throws but that last one was outstanding. he fit the ball into a very small window. Our guys have to make that catch.

Tough catch but actually a very good throw to sneak the ball in there. How many receivers across the NFL will make harder catches then that today? A whole bunch is my guess.

I don't get how these people think. Of course we're happy that Allen had an overall good game and showed flashes of brilliance. None of us are saying carve his bust for the HOF but with a rookie QB as raw as Allen in which the Bills used a #7 pick we want to see him succeed? Right? We know that Allen is likely to have a couple of rough games over these final 5 weeks. That goes with the territory. But games like the one against Jacksonville remind us of why the Bills took this guy as high as they did. If it works out with Allen the Bills are back in the mix and we can expect yearly playoff runs. If he's a bust, as some of these folks seem to be wishing for, we're back to ground zero and face another lost decade.

Look you can cut the stats any way you want if you're trying to make Allen look inaccurate. Go ahead and take away Allen's two big chunk throws but how about that perfect 40 yard strike in the 2nd half that was dropped? Cherry picking stats works both ways! And some of his incompletions were throw away's to avoid a sack. The fact that in spite of the Jags defensive front 7 mauling our offensive line the Bills did not "give" up a sack and a lot of that had to do with Allen throwing the ball away. It's funny how when Allen was sacked earlier in the season people yelled "why didn't he just throw the ball away". But when he throws the ball away they complain about his inaccuracy. Look it's frustrating watching a raw rookie QB develop. But one fun thing is that you can use unconventional stats to evaluate his progress. In this game Allen made two great throws to convert back-to-back 3rd downs. Both were called back on penalty. Sure I was mad at the dumb penalties but I also recognized how good the throws were so I didn't feel as bad. As for the video linked on this thread it seemed fair to me. Allen is making progress and he has a lot to work on. Did anyone think that wouldn't be the case at this point in the season? Agree 100%! Newton makes running the football a big part of his game. He regularly runs out of the read option with McCaffrey.

Some thoughts on McCaffrey: * I figured he would shine in the NFL based on his work at Stanford. I also figured that it would depend on where he landed whether he would be good or elite. I prayed that NE didn't draft him as he would probably be working on his 2nd consecutive 1,000/1,000 yard season and killing us in the process! * I actually thought Carolina was a poor fit as Cam Newton isn't exactly known for his soft touch and check-down passes. That he's put up the receiving numbers that he has shows me that Cam has matured and that McCaffrey must be open on almost every play. The other element going on here is that the Panthers run the read option with Newton/McCaffrey to perfection. I think that Shady & Allen could also be dangerous running this type of play more often. * When you talk about whether McCaffrey was worth a top 10 first round pick consider this little factoid. Down here Cincinnati in 2017 the Bengals drafted wide receiver John Ross #9, right after McCaffrey was taken by Carolina. I remember folks saying at the time how the Panthers had picked CMAC to high and that the Bengals got the better offensive player in the speedster Ross. Well Ross couldn't break into the starting line-up his rookie year and while he's been starting this year his career receptions stand at 14 catches for 176 yards & 5 TD's. McCaffrey a RUNNING BACK who will likely hit 1,000 yards rushing this year has career RECEIVING numbers (including 1 playoff game) of 157 catches for 1362 yards & 11 TD's! Just goes to show that draft picks in any round are a crap shoot.

Throwing out the disclaimer that it's way to early to tell, before the draft I rated the QB's as: 1) Mayfield 2) Allen 3) Darnold 4) Rosen 5) Jackson And IMO things haven't changed since then and I would rank the rookies in the exact same way.

Edmonds did not have a good game yesterday and his play probably contributed to the Bills getting gashed up the middle in the 2nd quarter. But with that being said he is playing the "QB" position of the defense and he is a rookie. IMO we should be excited about the guys potential going forward. He's shown flashes of being a dominating LB and considering how young he is even for a rookie, Edmonds is going to be a stud at MLB for years to come.

Again, I asked would he be throwing for 300 yards if he was on the Cheifs right now, not that he would be putting up HOF numbers. There is a difference. Funny how those of you who say Allen isn't a "natural" thrower because he put a WR screen pass into the turf ignore the several outstanding throws he did make. I just don't get it. Looking at Allen's entire body of passing work this season and he appears to be plenty accurate to me. His issues have been reading the D and pocket awareness - both things that rookie QB's struggle with in the NFL. And both things that can be learned through playing.

To be clear I think Mahomes is a great QB. He & Goff are the best of the young QB's (less then 5 years) in the league. Also I didn't say Allen would be putting up Mahomes numbers I asked whether he would be having a couple of 300 yard games at KC and IMO the answer is yes. As far as short passing accuracy goes Allen is good enough to dump the ball off to the Chief's TE & RB. And who cares what these QB's accuracy was in college at this point. Allen has shown that he's plenty accurate enough. Allen is winning with his arms AND legs and at this point that's fine with me. And while agree with you that Wilson was a better passer right out the gate IMO Cam was not. Again to my old eyes Cam & Allen share a number of similar traits on the field - strong arms, athletic play, can kill you with their legs, a burning desire to win AND leadership.

This is easier said then done with a QB that has the arm strength and medium/long pass accuracy that Allen has. Sure, teams can adjust to stop the planned QB runs but that will open up other opportunities downfield. Serious question for folks, if you put Allen on KC right now do you think he would be throwing fro 300 yards? I do.

Allen has much better arm talent then Jackson.

Sure there is still a long way to go before we truly know what the Bills QB situation is but how can you not be optimistic? Yesterday, Allen showed us why some scouts felt he had the highest upside of ANY of the rookie QB's. Does he have a lot to work on? Absolutely but that's what makes this exciting for me. The kid has proven to be a quick study and the things he needs to do better at can and will be learned. The intangibles, stuff that is hard or impossible to learn, like his leadership skills& physical tools, have already been demonstrated this year. And for the record, Allen could very well have a couple of bad games in the following 5 weeks. That comes with a rookie QB but the overall trajectory is clearly up. And as an added bonus we probably have found our backup QB for the next couple of years. this is no small thing. It seems to me that we've completely turned it around the last couple of weeks going from the abject misery of our rookie QB out with injury and Peterman /Anderson as the only options at QB. It's actually a startling turn around IMO.

Both things can be true. Allen does have a long way to go but IMO we're not overreacting here. This was a potentially tough comeback game for Allen. A 6 week hiatus and playing a top 5 defense. There was plenty of reasons to believe that he would struggle today. Instead he had command of his game and the offense. IMO once they add some more weapons on offense you'll see Allen start to put up those gaudy numbers that gets everyone excited. The other thing about this kid is he truly doesn't give a rats fanny about the stats. He is about one thing and one thing only - winning football games. He has an infectious attitude that resembles that of Baker Mayfield. This is part of that mysterious IT factor that we all saw today but doesn't show up in the stats except for wins & losses. I agree 100%. IMO Allen's game is beginning to resemble Cam Newton's and that's a good thing. I would love to see more read option plays with McCoy & Allen. In the college game these types of high-bred QB's have been taking over the game the last few years. Allen's physical tools are such that surrounded with the right talent the Bills could go from being a bad offense to a potent one in a single season. But how much of that was the flow of the game? First you had a couple of quality completions lost by penalty. Then you had a bad drop on what would have been a 35 yard pass completion. Add in the fact that the Bills D got run all over in the 2nd quarter limiting offensive possessions and once the Bills got the lead they got very conservative and you only get 8 completions. Until the offense is upgraded this is how the Bills will be operating.

This is the one I would go with. Mayfield is way ahead of everyone else but Allen has started to separate himself from the rest at #2 mainly because he's played well against a couple of very good defenses (Minnesota & the Jags). If this is the order we get at the end of the season we should all be very happy about the Bills QB play going forward.