CincyBillsFan

I agree that overall Allen didn't play well but he had a gem of a game against Minnesota and led a 4th quarter rally against Tennessee - both teams which are likely to be in the playoffs. In fact Allen faced by far the toughest competition of the Bills QB's this season. I believe every defense he faced is in the top half of the leagues rankings. He started or had significant playing time against a 6 game gauntlet of likely playoff teams. And now I'm deeply curious as to how Allen would do against the next 6 teams of which only 1 is a likely playoff team. IMO the Bills organization should be even more curious then me about this. What it comes down to between the "start Allen" & "start Barkley" folks is what is more important - possibly winning a couple of more games this season or getting a quality read on your top 10 draft pick QB. I get the desire to win games and watch an offense that looks competent. But isn't that what we've been looking at for the last 19 years with ONE playoff appearance to show for it? To me it's an obvious choice - you go all in with Allen until he proves he's either a bust or your franchise QB.

Play Allen & sit Barkley. No one is going to believe that Allen, who was almost able to go today is still not recovered enough to go in 2 weeks. My reasons are simple: * The let Allen sit and learn crowd have a good point ONLY if Allen wasn't named the starter in week 2. At that point "sit & learn" went out the window. There are consequences to benching the 7th pick in the draft for getting injured. Allen had the starting job and when he's healthy, which looks to be now, he gets it back. * We know exactly what we have in Barkley. And it's good news - he looks to be a competent back up QB. However to look at him in any other way is to ignore the mans body of work which was accumulated over 6 years in the NFL. * We think we know what we have in Allen, otherwise he's not a high first round draft pick, but we don't know for sure. It's critical that we find out. And when you spend the 7th pick in the draft on a QB you have to give them at least 2 seasons to make the assessment. If Allen doesn't see the field the rest of the year then we're looking at 2020 before we know whether we've got our guy or if it's back square one at QB. There is NO other question facing this franchise more important then this one. * And it's more then just figuring out if Allen is the guy. Even if he is the guy, we still have to develop him and the only way to do that at this point is to give him NFL reps. And to be fair, in the 6 games that Allen started or had significant playing time, he faced teams that are all probably going to the playoffs. In the last 6 games only New England is a likely playoff team. I for one would like to see what Allen & this offense can do playing defenses that aren't in the top 10. * I think Allen has shown that he's pretty tough mentally but everyone has their limits. So let's say that McDermott goes with Barkley and tries to skirt the issue when questioned by the media by claiming that Allen still isn't 100%? What does Allen say when the media asks him? Do we really want Allen claiming he is healthy and dispute his head coach. Am I the only one that can see how this turns into a mess real fast. This isn't fantasy football here, these are human beings with real emotions and how they react to this kind of stuff can be unpredictable. * Oh and for the record if they start Allen he may very well not play as good as Barkley. Starting Allen is something you do for the long-term good of the franchise. But then again if the Bills think Barkley is their best chance to win then maybe they should trade Allen (I'm being facetious here). As an aside folks bring up Mahonnes but KC was a legit playoff contender and Alex Smith was a PROVEN starting NFL QB. The Bills are not playoff contenders and Barkley is not a starting QB.

Even if Barkley plays well in a couple more games does that really tell us that he's a starting caliber QB? He's had 6 years and a bunch of different opportunities to demonstrate that he's more then a back-up QB. Bottom line is we already know that he's not a starting QB in a way that we don't know about Allen. The goal with Allen going forward is twofold: 1) Develop him as a starting QB that can be the guy for us over the next 10 years AND 2) determine whether he is the guy ASAP so we can cut our ties and move forward if he's not. We can't do either of these things if he's sitting on the bench. When the Bills named Allen the starter in week 2 and he kept that job until he went down with an injury, they lost any chance to sit him down and have him "learn" now. It's like losing your virginity - there's no going back.

IMO this only works if Allen is a robot. But from his comments the last week he's chomping at the bit to play. There will be an emotional toll on the guy if McDermott plays games with Allen over whether he'll be starting in 2 weeks. The Bills lost the luxury to sit Allen this year because of the GM & coaches screw-up during the off season. That's water under the bridge now. But I believe that if they now play head games with Allen and try to use his injury as an excuse to not play him they are potentially doubling down on their first screw-up. To realistically have a shot at the playoffs the Bills will likely have to win all 6 of their remaining games. Do folks actually believe that this is likely or even possible? If the Bills were even 5 - 5 I would say go with the hot hand. But at 3 - 7 you start Allen and begin the development/evaluation process in earnest.

Look I've made my opinion known on a number of threads but this quote from your article says it all to me: A source told ESPN's Adam Schefter before Sunday's win that Allen is expected to be ready to return after the Bills' bye week from a sprained elbow he suffered Oct. 14. Allen had been pushing to play and felt ready to go against the Jets before the team opted to hold him out, according to the source. If McDermott wants to risk Allen's development then go with the hot hand in a quest to go 6 - 10 this season. The mental game for a QB is just as important as the physical game. The Bills did the right thing in not starting Allen to allow him to fully recover. But if they start playing games like they did this summer, then they risk screwing Allen up mentally. Keep in mind that when Tampa's young QB got healthy Fitz, who was the hottest hand in the NFL, was benched and didn't get back in until Winston looked Petermen like. You do the same thing here and unless Allen looks like Peterman, you go with him even if he's initially less effective then Barkley was today.

I think the title of this thread is backwards - If Allen is ready and McDermott starts Barkley in a misguided effort to go with the "hot hand" he should be fired. As others have noted: * We are not in the playoff race which would be the ONLY reason to go with the "hot hand" at this point. Barkley is not the answer. Whether Allen is remains to be seen. But given that we used the 7th pick in the draft to take him AND we knew he needed to be developed not starting him at this point would be coaching malpractice on McDermott's part. * Allen has been thrown to the wolves so it's to late to pull him back. He needs to get NFL snaps. It may not be pretty and he could very well stink against Jacksonville but so what. This season is about developing Allen and getting information on whether he is the guy or not. * Don't underestimate how much they could screw-up Allen mentally if they start playing games with him if he's ready to come back. He seems to be rearing to go and we have the chance to see his body of work over a 6 game run. It would be managerial & coaching incompetence to not take this opportunity.

Great game by Barkley. From a long term strategic standpoint this is a big deal in that we have landed our back-up QB for the foreseeable future. But for those saying he should keep starting my take is no way. Allen should be declared the starter for the Jacksonville game this week unless he regressed in his injury. Allen should be given as many reps with the 1st team as possible. In other news Petermen should be cut if Allen is ready to go. As an aside, I thought this was the game where Dabold pulled out all the stops and Barkley was clearly the beneficiary of the offensive creativity we saw today. the only caution I would throw out is that now that some of these plays are on film don't expect them to work as well the next time. The Jets to me looked like a defense that thought they could just show up and hold the Bills to less then 10 points. You just can't do that in the NFL. The worst thing the Bills organization can do at this time is to not start Allen when he's healthy enough to go. The give Allen a year train left the station in week 2. They must have unwavering commitment to Allen as the starter until they know for sure he's not cut out for it. IMO that would be the rest of this season and all of next season.

The yards per attempted pass, a very important passing game metric, were abysmal for Peterman today. Say what you will about Allen but he pushes the ball downfield. And as I read on another post a steady diet of short passes around the LOS will always result in weird bounces and chaotic stuff happening. It will also lead to a lot of punts and few points being scored.

Because there's only so much negative thought that a human mind can handle!

I don't think teams over reached for these 4 guys. They all had question marks BUT as a group there is a lot of talent there. The problem was that because all 4 of them were very attractive QB prospects and the odds that they could be "the guy" were not bad they were all picked early in the 2018 draft. And guess what, who gets to pick early? That's right, the cruddy teams. So you have 4 rookies playing on 4 terrible teams. And not just bad football teams but teams that have very bad offenses! Let's not forget that Mahomes was a mid 1st round pick who went to a playoff level team loaded with great offensive talent. He then had the luxury of sitting a year and learning. On top of that he was never seen as the savior of the Chiefs; they had Alex Smith if he didn't work out.

This is a good point and it seemed like after the pick six the defense deflated. Why the coach doesn't seem to get how demotivating having Peterman in there is to the rest of the team is alarming.

In a 41 - 9 beat down in which the Bills trailed 28 - 0 at half and 34 - 3 midway through the 4th quarter. I mean given how NFL teams play prevent defense in these types of games it's amazing that we didn't get at least one more garbage time TD.

You could say the same thing about the NY Jets and I suspect that after throwing 4 INT's today a lot of Jets fans are calling Darnold a bust and lamenting why they ever let Fitz go! Hell they probably also regret not taking Mahomes.

To be clear Peterman is not a good QB but those claiming the WR's contributed a whole lot to our offensive problems today are spot on. We have the worst WR's/TE's in the NFL. I'm not sure any of these guys would start for any other team in the NFL. Our WR's do not get separation; they lead the league in dropping catch-able balls; and I believe they also are last in the NFL in YAC. But I would also say that if Peterman supporters are going to cite the dismal WR/TE play to explain away some of his bad stats then the same applies to Allen who had 3 TD's dropped and at least one INT off a pass that bounced off the chest of a WR.

Great post! I would also argue that our offense with Allen starting seemed to be a little more effective then what we've seen with Anderson & Pederman. And this was in spite of Allen facing far tougher defenses.

The defense played well under difficult circumstances. Some of the young guys on this unit will be very good for years. The other positive is there no longer can be any Buffalo fan who doesn't understand that this is an historically bad offense at almost EVERY position. The claims that "Allen is a bust" based on his performance quarterbacking this offense should now be laid to rest. You could put a hybrid or Mahomes, Breez, Rogers & Brady back there and this offense would still struggle to score points.

But we might score a TD. Something we haven't done with a couple of 250 yard plus passing games! Also, Allen did lead the team to two opening drive TD's (against TN & Minnesota) something we haven't seen since the big improvement in passing yards the last 2 games.

Any thoughts that the improved passing yardage the last two games is encouraging should be snuffed out by the following observations: * Anderson is good at padding his stats by going to the check down receiver almost immediately. Against both Indy & NE he was constantly throwing 6 yard passes on 3rd and 10. The defense will give you those every time. Ditto for his ability to exploit a teams prevent defense when they're ahead by multiple TD's. Now to be clear I don't blame Anderson in the least for this. When he signed on it wasn't to actually have to QB this offense. But it does indicate that we should be careful when looking at the raw passing yardage numbers. The only numbers that really matter are zero TD's the last 2 games and last night we never made it into the Pats red zone. * We should also keep in mind that the offensive struggles the last 2 weeks have come against the #21 (Indy) and #25 (NE) rated defenses.

I have to disagree about the wide receivers. I saw nothing special and the block by KB was horrible. That kind of play is illegal at all levels of football now and KB should have known it. All he had to do was get his big body in the way and the huge gain holds up. I also heard the announcer repeatably talk about the receivers not getting any separation and that the QB was always having to make perfect throws. Again I ask when was the last time a Buffalo WR or TE broke wide open more than 10 yards down the field? Anderson had okay numbers, at least with respect to yardage & completion %, but that just goes to show you how meaningless those numbers are if they don't produce points. The fact is on 3rd & 10 Anderson will throw a check down 6 yard pass. He has done this multiple times tonight & last week. It's actually quite smart because it pumps up the stats. Throw in his check down yardage against the Pats prevent defense and the numbers don't tell the story of how bad the Bills passing attack is. Let's not forget that at home against a below average defense the Bills only managed 2 long FG's. I may be wrong here but Buffalo did not reach the red zone a single time tonight. With the exception of Shady no other Bills skill offensive skill player starts for any other team in the NFL.

My observations after watching the game at a famous Cincinnati area sports bar which serves decent wings: * At least the Bills weren't humiliated on MNF like many of us thought they might be. * Bills fans and the stadium came across great on the big screen TV. The crowd was loud and the place was packed. How many times when they scan NFL stadiums do you see rows of empty seats nowadays. Tonight the Ralph was jam packed with an assortment of colorful characters. The red heat lamp seating zone looked eerie on TV and is unlike anything I've ever seen before. The halftime shots with the stadium darkened and the phone lights shimmering in the air was cool. * The Bills defense was outstanding. To hold the Pats to less then 20 points and only 1 TD was a great nights work. * The Bills offense is beyond woeful. Don't be fooled by Anderson's numbers - he's a savvy vet who on 3rd & 13 will take that 8 yard pass all day long. Over the course of a game going to the check down guy on 3rd down will plump up the stats but do nothing to converts 3rd downs. Then when the game is out of reach Anderson knows how to milk a prevent defense for another 75 - 100 yards yet never actually sniff the end zone. Throw in a pick 6 that effectively ended the game and the Bills are putting an historically bad offense on the field. * Oh & I forgot to note that I don't think the Bills got to the red zone the entire game. Chew on that for a moment and keep in mind that the Pat's D is below average. * It was interesting how the announcer kept calling out the fact that the Bills WR's & TE's got absolutely NO separation. * Tonight's game provided further support to me that Shady is the ONLY Bills offensive skill player that would start for ANY OTHER NFL TEAM. * Why with less then 2 minutes to play and down by 19 were the Bills having Anderson throw the ball? Were they trying to get him hurt? What on earth were they thinking?

My guess is that if you were watching the other rookie QB's as closely as you're watching Allen they wouldn't be passing the eye test either. It's always fun to check out other teams message boards to see what they're saying. if you did you might be surprised at how many fans in Cleveland are screaming that "Mayfield sucks" or that "Darnold is a bust". This is an interesting stat sheet. It suggests that 1st year performance might not be that important. I mean have you guys seen how Winston & Mariota have been playing lately?

Wow, a dose of much needed sanity on this board! Thank you.

Rosen's game against San Fran is the perfect microcosm of a rookie season. Through the first 3 quarters the kid looked awful and had a QB rating of 40. But damn did he have an excellent 4th quarter to lead his team to the win. This is why we need to get Allen out there ASAP. The four teams starting rookies are out of it - there isn't a playoff team among the bunch The ONLY thing that matters this year is how well do they do in developing their rookie QB's. Allen needs to PLAY and LEARN. It's just that simple. Some additional thoughts on the rookies this week: * Fitzgerald is worth his weight in gold to a rookie QB like Rosen. This guy is the consummate PRO and is clearly Rosen's security blanket. * Baker Mayfield is showing us what happens when you play on a bad offensive football team. As the Browns have traded away skill players they have reverted to form and Mayfield is suffering for it. On the plus side for Browns fans they are stock piling draft picks that can be turned into offensive weapons next year. * Darnold continues to struggle after a solid start to the season. I suspect that this is due to the fact that instead of playing games against defenses ranked in the bottom quarter of the NFL he is now seeing very good defenses - sort of like the defenses Allen was facing. So where do I rank the 1st round rookie QB's: Mayfield > Darnold, Rosen & Allen >>> Baltimore's gimmick guy. Yep, IMO Darnold, Rosen & Allen have not separated from each other.

Okay folks I'm excited to report that my time machine is almost done! Once completed I'll set it to drop me off at one Bills Drive right before the trade with KC and I'll make sure I bring Mahomes stat sheet. I know the tough part will be convincing the Bills management that I'm from the future and I have to hope they don't call the Orchard Park police on me. So do you folks have any ideas as to what else I can bring back with me to convince them? The funny thing is that if it works and we have Mahomes starting for us Monday night I may be the only one to know the real story here.

I like to point out how the other rookie QB's are struggling as a way to calibrate Josh Allen's performance. And when you're reading posts on a message board using the performance of the other rookie QB's as support for claiming Allen is a bust it's only natural that some of us want to counter that with the simple fact that most rookie QB's struggle when playing on bad football teams. And you're right that they all might be busts and conversely they all might be HOFers. It's just to early to tell one way or the other.