Rochesterfan

I think long term he is your C/G player that people are looking to draft. I think they keep grooming him to take over for Morse at some point. Right now they seem to like Mongo a bit more at Center, but I hope this is the year he begins to take that mantle. I love his position flexibility and his desire to play center is a huge bonus for his future on this team.

Yes - we just signed a guy in Obada from the program. I believe there are 11 guys trying to get in the pathway for this year - so the numbers are growing making it more and more likely to get guys that will eventually have an impact.

The biggest problem that I see - is that if the Cap after the adjustment is in the 190-195 million range - with the restructures from this year - we are already in worse CAP shape for next year - before signing Edmunds and Allen to their 5th year options or extensions. We have fewer people under contract at a higher base cost, which is why Beane is working hard not to push to much into next year.

Hap - I don’t believe that was true - He still had to clear waivers just as every other player cut did. Every NFL team could sign him at that point. The Bills could then offer him a Full PS contract or as they decided the Pathways Program PS contract. The Bills offered the Pathways offer and that was what he accepted. Again at the end of the both years the Bills had to offer him a futures contract for him to remain a member of the team and come back the following year. He signed that contract to come back or he could of been a FA either year. Just a quick look at 2019 and 2020 transactions - both years the Bills had to cut Wade at the cut down and then subsequently re-sign him to the PS. He does not automatically move - he is subject to waivers just like every other player.

He will hopefully get a chance to play - I am guessing the extension to the program was due to the fact that all of these guys lost last year because there was no preseason and practices were limited. My guess is the Bills will see what he can offer, but with a team going “all in” on trying to win a championship- I do not see a real spot for him on the Bills except as a Pathways PS player. The choice will be up to Wade - does he want a shot this year and he does not sign that contract and becomes a FA (or gets signed by another team) or does he like Buffalo enough to wait out another year in protection (which is safe and good money).

If he is part of the Pathways Program - yes the Bills get an exemption and can bring 91 rather than 90 players to training camp, but at the end of training camp he get cuts just like every other player trying to be signed to a PS. Every team in the NFL has an option then to sign him to their active roster. Once he clears waivers then there are up to 4 additional choices to be made. 1.) He can be signed to the Bills active PS. 2.) He can be signed any other teams PS. 3.) He can agree to another deal with the Bills and be put on the Pathway PS as an exempt member (just like the last 2 years). 4.) He can forgo any contract and becomes a FA immediately and can sign with any team either active roster or PS. He is not bound to the Bills (other than when that was the assigned team in year 1). He has had to sign futures contracts just like other PS players to get an invite the following year. He had a choice and could either sign the futures contract and stay in Buffalo or forgo the contract and become a FA and try to latch on to another team, but then he loses the Pathways option - which pays him pretty good money to learn the game. You are correct that once he chooses option 3 and signs his new contract agreeing to be on the Pathway PS - then he is bound to the Bills, protected, and can not be activated, but that is a choice he gets to make in partnership with his agent and the Bills. The Bills do not get to just force him there and once he agrees - the player understands (or should if he has a good agent) what he is signing up for - no movement, but no risk of getting released and a chance to be paid to continue to learn and grow.

??? - The man literally has a chance to play with anyone that wants him. It is not automatic that he has to stay with the Bills or be an exempt PS player - He has to clear waivers and every team has a chance to sign him before going on the PS. He also does not need to agree to the pathways extension and can become a FA. He has options, but as a very limited player - those choices are limited. The fact is a RB with little experience that has not shown much of anything has very, very little value. Wade had no place to go last year and this actually gives him a chance as an extra player to remain on the team into preseason and maybe put a bit of tape out there no matter how limited. It also gives him an option to remain in the NFL for an extra year. Without the Pathways program - he is cut after year one and is out of the NFL. You want to see the positive of the program look at Obada - he failed in multiple training camps before the start of the program. Then he got into the pathways program and with the things he learned in his failed training camps and the training in the program - he made a team and plays in the NFL. If he is good enough to make the roster - great, but now he has a chance to remain with a team and continue to learn and make money and share and grow his experiences. If he puts good tape out - he can also make the roster, the regular PS, or get poached by another team. The final scenario is that if all of that fails - he and the Bills now have an option to go the pathways route again and give him one more year.

He retired from rugby. Wanted something new - it does not mean he could not go back.

Totally agree on the need for a pass rush. The issue is it was not a DE versus a CB2. It was what group of players are you getting rid of for which DE. Are you not re-signing Milano, Williams, and Feliciano to create enough money to go after Lawson? That is the equivalent contract. The Bills recognized the need at DE and went after Watt - when he decided to go to Arizona that changed the cards you could play. They had a chance to restructure and re-sign several players on very team friendly contract or let them go and try to sign FA DEs. The issue is exactly what KC is going through - what happens when you strike out on the guys you target. They targeted Trent Williams to be their next tackle and even tried overpaying and he choose SF - now they are stuck with no Tackles and a weaker team. If the Bills let Milano and Feliciano hit the market and cut Butler and Addison - they could of got to 13 - 14 million to sign a DE and restructure Dawkins to free up some extra money to sign another DT. The problem becomes does Lawson sign with you? You offer him the Jets contract at 13+ million and the Jets counter with 15 million does he still choose the Jets? If you miss out then you have created gaping holes and missed your guy. Beane took the sure thing over the maybe and that becomes especially true because after Watt you had a bunch of questionable guys at DE. Lawson was great as a rookie and then less productive than Addison since then. He had 5.5 sacks in Cincinnati, but a ton of QB pressures finally in his contract year on a defense that was bad overall - so he did not really move that defense. Ngakoue did not improve Jacksonville, Minnesota, or Baltimore’s defense as a “needle moving” DE. Dunlop did improve Seattle’s defense, but he puts up numbers equivalent to Addison and is going to be 32 - not sure he is moving the needle greatly over what Addison brought. Clowney, Ingram, and some others are still available and none are big improvements over the guys we brought back. The best of the bunch might have been Hendrickson and he chose money going to a dumpster fire in Cincinnati- so again that would of been a hard sell to get in here without significant money. I think everyone agrees (including the front office) that a pass rush animal at DE was a huge want - the balancing game makes it more difficult. Watt choosing Arizona made a huge difference in how the Bills approached FA because you lost out on the guy you targeted. That left Beane in the position that KC is in - do I sign my own or cut ties and go after the top guy. Beane decided to re-sign his guys at significantly reduced prices to allow them to go after other FAs - KC went after multiple top flight FAs and hit 1 and missed a couple and now have no tackles on a team that was weak at tackle and it cost them a Super Bowl.

He could of and yes Addison does potentially cost more than Reddick, but Reddick to me does not fit on this team - he is not an Addison replacement- he would be a Milano replacement. I could of lived with that, but again we know what we have with Milano and Reddick did not emerge until his contract year (always a scary thing) He would of been a nice piece, but not a big time player. If it is between Addison/Milano or Reddick/Milano- I am taking Addison only because the Bills typically employ a 4-2-5 and Milano and Edmunds are the 2 guys they trust. If you want to argue Reddick and Dunlop over Addison and Milano - I would listen to that, but 4 years of Milano is better than the 1 year of Reddick. If you rework Reddick and Dunlop’s contracts to mirror Addison and Milano - then you have potential. Do you take Lawson at DE over both of them? Cut Addison and do not sign Milano - that gets you enough to sign Lawson - does that make the Bills significantly better? I don’t know - maybe. It also leaves you a significant hole at LB that you need to fill.

That is exactly what I want to hear - at least you have options. I honestly don’t know how I would react - I want discussion not just wah wah wah - we need to go all in. You are correct we would not know how those guys would doinbuffalo, but for example Dunlop - you say he is a needle mover, but he has done less in Cincinnati than Addison has done over the last 4 years. In addition last year, Dunlop had 6 sacks to Addisons 5. Dunlop is a nice player, but his re-signing with Seattle at over 8.5 per means the NFL thought he was on par with Addison. The last thing about Addison is yes he is not an elite player, but he has been better than many of the guys we talked about during the initial FA period. He has outplayed Clowney and Lawson over the last 3 years and has been on par with Dunlop. So the dude maybe garbage to you, but with his pay rate and what we get - I will take that over what Cincinnati got from Lawson last year and Lawson was a pipe dream for many. There were a few needle movers at DE, but then you had to be willing to give up something. For example many people wanted Lawson - his 13.5 million price tag means you lose multiple of Milano, Williams, and Feliciano and maybe all 3. Then the question is does he alone make you good enough to win without Milano and are you happy to sacrifice your Right side of the OLine for potential DE. Thank you for at least having the courage to have a few options so we can discuss. That is the point of the board. I myself think with the way the staff works - Milano was significantly more important to the defense than any DE on the market. The DE rotation and the way they want the non rush DE to hold up in the run game means you are going to have guys like Murphy and Addison that do their job - do not put up big numbers, but are crucial to the defense. The issue becomes if you get the needle moving DE - does he have the freedom to just rush the passer and not worry about the run game or is he put into the same role as Murphy and Addison and everyone crushes him the next year.

once again like who? - you complain you want a needle mover - who is that. The Bills keep making moves and you do not give ideas or anything - just you want needle movers. Who is the 1st round player you want to trade - then we can talk. Who is this TE or DE needle mover and what are you willing to spend? Lets cut Singletary, Our best ST LB, Butler (after his restructure or before?). Worst of all let’s tack a year on Hughes to save a few million - when we can get out of the contract next year. This is what they did with Star and it backfired when he sat out. Great now you freed up 7 million dollars, but you need another DT - where is that coming from and at what cost? You do understand we also still need to sign nearly 20 guys prior to camp right? We are at 65 and have 7 picks. All I keep asking is who are the needle movers you want - this is your thread and your complaint- what would make you happy? Are you happy if they restructure Dawkins also and take 13 million for a DE like Clowney - does that move your needle. Does he really make the Bills better because he sure did not make Seattle or Tennessee better. Are you happy if they trade a 1st or 2nd to Philly for Ertz and his 8+ million contract? Is that a needle mover? Would it be better if they gave up their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and probably a high pick next year to get Pitts in the draft? I just want to know WHO!! You could be right on or you could be way off, but saying we need to go all in and not giving any (not even one miserable player) that fits your criteria - what are we supposed to do.

Why do you think the CAP will soar? Serious question. Quick math tells us there is a very good chance the CAP is lower than it was last year. If we assume everything opens back up and they can have 100% fans - the Cap should rise to approximately what was expected this year (prior to COVID) ~210 million per team. The salary cap for this year after COVID would have been 150-155 million, but the owners agreed to 182million - meaning they have 30 million in over revenue spending for this year. The owners wanted that back ASAP - so the original agreement was it would be removed from the next 2 years CAP. So if we think it is even split then lop 15 million off the 210 and you are down to 195 (or last years numbers). There is nothing saying it has to be even and the owners may want more faster as they are the ones out money - so they could do 20 and 10 or even all 30 if they want - basically keeping the CAP flat with this year. Additionally - the NFL plans to add week 17, but it comes at a cost of potentially 2 preseason games. The preseason games are nearly 100% revenue as the players are not paid at their regular season rate, but season ticket prices and parking and food are all at regular season pricing - making that all revenue. That is all assuming there is nothing that limits some or all stadium capacity that could limit revenue.

So your plan is push everything in and if it fails and we can’t compete in the future it was worth it? For what and who are you trying to spend significant money to get better. You want to push significant CAP money into future years, but have given nothing. What magic DE, TE, and RB makes this 13-3 team significantly better? You list a bunch of guys from KC and TB and the truth is those players are all insignificant. The fact is Brady and Mahomes made those 2 teams. Most of TB was there last year without Brady and did not make the playoffs. Suddenly Brady arrives and bam those guys are another level and win a SB. KC won the Super Bowl the year before without CEH and Dee Ford isn’t on either team - he is in SF and they didn’t make the playoffs. The fact is this is a terrible LAMP post as all you do is whine about spending more money. You want me to take it seriously- give some names - what DE are you signing that gives you significant improvement over Addison and AJ and at what cost as we are already borrowing from an uncertain future. Which TE should the Bills suddenly add that takes the place of Knox and fills a role on the team? Where are we getting this magical TE and what are you willing to spend. What RB left after today’s deal do you want added now that brings a championship to Buffalo - who are these Big 3 that we should be going out and getting - that every other team is overlooking - that we should mortgage our entire future for. There isn’t anyone - so you can’t give name - you can just say now is the time to push it all in without opening your eyes and realizing that Beane is going for it. He already spent more than he planned because he had to restructure Tre White - which was a limited resource that he only wanted to use in case. He limited flexibility and money in future years maintaining a 13-3 team - while other teams have fallen. He looks at the future and what we will need next year and makes calculated choices based upon the fact that we still don’t know what the CAP will be the next 2 years as the NFL recoups 30+ million from the next 2 cap years. I can’t help you to see what is going on right in front of you - that requires you to process what is happening. If you just want to complain- great, but at least add something to you post so we can discuss or put this in any of 10 other threads already complaining about a lack of DEs, RBs, and TEs.

Just stop - let the man building the team keep going - do not waste the next 15 years for 1 questionable year. Just keep improving like they are doing.

Good - hopefully this kills the Harris to Buffalo thoughts in the draft.

Not quite true - for LJ it is almost 75% between the hashes and in the shorter to intermediate levels to TEs. Almost all of the throws go to the middle with few actual throws to the outside or to WRs. For Kaep and Tyrod - almost all of the throws were to 1:1 WRs on the sidelines both short and deep. Much fewer throws to the TEs or RBs in the middle. Kaep was less athletic and a better passer, but used small percentage of the field. Tyrod could run, but did not trust tight throws. He wanted the receiver with a clear sight line and facing him - that was his cue to throw. Nice completion percentage, but little in YAC. The first year he was on fire on deep throws to streaking 1 on 1 WRs and that opened things up - as that dried up - so to did his passing attack. LJ is the most athletic of the group and has a good enough arm to make most throws. I also think his WRs are better than they get credit - they just do not get the volume. I think the Roman offense limits severely any QB reads and places an emphasis on very specific throws based on single reads. In Baltimore- those throws are top TEs because of the emphasis on the run. Draw LBs and safeties up and hit the TEs in the gaps created. What I don’t know is: Could LJ do more with a different offense or is his success tied to the style dictated by the Baltimore staff? He has not shown a grasp on reading defenses, but is very good at reading individual players and making plays off from them. Run/pass options, various pass combos based on a DE, LB, or safety - he can read and react to those. Drop him back and force him to read a defense and find open spots - he is not there yet - the question is it Roman holding him back (WR route combos, formations, and scheme) or is it LJ and Roman is maximizing his ability - LJ just does not realize that yet. Kaep and Tyrod were both maximized under Roman (and his scheme) and did not improve under other staffs. LJ is still young, but he is missing his prime learning time and think he will also maximize under Roman.

Except JuJu was gone - said his goodbyes - He was moving on - right until his offers were not as a #1, but as an above average 2. The previous John Brown range 8-9 million. Suddenly when even the Jets offer barely beats the Steelers offer - that’s when he decides to come back. It wasn’t friends, it wasn’t relationships - it was I got few offers and the Jets and Ravens have limited passing - let me go back to Pittsburgh and see if one more year let’s me move on for more. It is one thing when these guys choose another offer and then give their goodbyes, but when you give your goodbyes before the end of the season and tell your teammates basically I’m not coming back and then sneak back when no one gives you what your agent thought - it is a bad look.

I think things like this and just how much he allows others to be loose - joking around with the kid sized uniform, not being afraid to be a butt of a joke and getting back at others - that kind of stuff can be vital in building a strong team. It goes unnoticed general fans, but it really seems his teammates appreciate him and how excited they were for him in that Miami game with the TDs. Those things are critical and are easy to lose, but bringing a guy like that back into the fold can allow some of that to carry over and remind guys that this is a game and we are a band of brothers. He was and is an important member of the team and it goes way beyond just his play on the field. Glad he is back!

Just remember with the cap at 182 this year (rather than the 150 million based upon revenue) - they still have around 30 million in overcharge for this year. The owners will have that 30 million out of the cap the next 2 years to balance the overspend for this year. So if the cap returns to normal - the league still has to pull 15+ million out each of the next 2 years to balance (or it could be mostly next year and less in 2 years - they have not provided the breakdown yet). Therefore; potentially cutting the cap for next year (even with a return to normal) to under what it was last year and a small increase over the 182 for this year. Also- yes they are adding an additional game, but they are potentially losing 2 preseason games where the players are not paid. Not sure the revenue doesn’t just balance out as price/cost for season tickets and tv deals - preseason was charged at the same rate as regular season.

Most everyone on the board wanted more at WR - especially more than Duke Williams. The majority of the board saw him as a #5/#6 WR and in the playoffs when it mattered most - he failed. The majority of members knew we needed more at WR - It was discussed when we tried to get Diggs before the trade deadline. Everyone knew they wanted more. More importantly - who is the Mythical DE that you wanted signed that gives you 10 sacks and is the huge game changer? There just isn’t anyone like that. Those guys are kept by their team. There are guys like Yannick and Lawson that have not put up 10 sacks most years (or ever in Lawson case) and we’re not difference makers on any of their previous teams, but for some reason guys think if we had paid 13-15 million for them as FAs they will suddenly be better. I think you are just talking out you backside and complaining because you have nothing else because for the majority of us - we recognize that we went 13-3 and have retained or improved across the board with the draft coming up.

They were not over the CAP. The NFL has been pretty clear - deals are not allowed for teams over the CAP - it changed some of the trade dates because Philadelphia had not cleared enough cash to trade Wentz. They had to wait an additional day while they made additional restructures to get the trade through. The Bills would not have been allowed to sign McKenzie yesterday or the DE today if we were over the Cap. The official numbers with the NFL reflect everything they have done - the numbers on websites like Spotrac do not and are not official. I will agree the restructure is not so the Bills can spend 7.5 million, but it gave them room to sign the DE and have some additional money if needed and pay their draft picks. Prior to that and after McKenzie the CAP space for the Bills was down to about 1 million - not even enough to get the draft picks under the cap.

I agree he is methodical, but he just did the Tre’ White restructure- most likely to give them space after the McKenzie signing. They will need a couple of million for draft picks (minimum amount because they are picking late and only top 51 count), the will want some in case of injury - most teams like a 3-4 million buffer for in season signing for injuries, and finally most likely there will be 1 or 2 additional vets, either before the draft or after the July 1st cuts, that Beane might have an eye out for - that having a couple of million available will allow them to go after. This is exactly what I expected after listening to Beane and reading the articles. A few small restructures - just to keep his flexibility open, but not to go after a shiny toy - it is to keep the team and be prepared. I totally agree - he already has designs on the Josh extension and although people will hate to hear this an Edmunds option also. He has also I am sure already put together a full list of next years FA’s, next years expected draft picks, and exactly how much money the Bills expect based on various scenarios in cap space. He is totally thinking 1, 2, 3, and 5 years out and trying to ensure he is ready. The planning for next year will help drive his draft picks for this year. He will draft people this year that will be available to fill holes on the roster for next year. He knows what positions appear to be strong and works to position the team needs to fit the drafts (and FA) strengths. He is nothing if not methodical.

Totally agree! I think this is the restructure to sign McKittrick yesterday, get enough funds for draft picks and have a bit more to go after vet minimum players over the course of the season. You need some money for injuries, draft picks, and if a guy is cut that you might want. I do not see this as a prelude to a big signing.

I totally agree with the sentiment, but he has renegotiated several contracts to kick the can down the road in his limited time - he just is very prudent about it and the money is minor. The way I take everything Beane has said is that he knows there are ways to free up money, but he is only going to do it for specific things. My guess is that if he is looking for a solid young DE (sort of like The Diggs trade) and something shakes free then he would make the move to free up money. He is not going to do it to sign a flash in the pan player like Lawson at DE that has produced less than Addison, but got paid 3X his salary for the year. I agree that this is not a one year thing - as I stated - Beane is constantly looking at contracts and impacts 1, 2, 3 years down the road. He is constantly factoring in money available now and the impact and FAs coming up. This is not a win at all costs approach that will cost us players in a few years - this is a steady long term approach that will sustain us even when Josh gets paid.