Rochesterfan

Crosby, Lindros, Connolly - all showed extensive symptoms of lingering concussion. Connolly repeated talked about his severe headaches and how light bothered him for months. Crosby and Lindros both suffered from extended headaches after the concussion. You rarely hear about that with NFL players - why? My belief is the helmets in the NFL absorb significantly more of the trauma than the helmets in Hockey. In addition the field in the NFL - even in the worse cases - is significantly softer and more absorbent than the ice in the NHL. In Hockey when a player gets a severe concussion (or several like the players mentioned) there is more obvious damage and less protection - so the injuries linger longer. In the NFL most players are exactly what you saw with Tua on Sunday - they get dinged - act funny, but are able to fairly quickly process cognitive questions and do not have severe headaches and light sensitivity. Those symptoms are part of the concussion protocol and will prevent players from clearing if they are positive. The idea of a team doctor and an independent doctor working together is exactly what was mentioned by the coach - sometimes you can hear that player sounds different - and an independent person that does not spend time with the player will not recognize that necessarily. I also disagree that other leagues are identifying more concussions. There have been several instances where hockey players are not diagnosed until days after a game because of symptoms, but they were allowed back out into the game. My guess is we would find that Hockey actually misses more concussions than football, but when they have severe concussion they are caught more frequently due to symptoms that manifest themselves. I think if hockey wanted to do something about concussions - they would invest in significantly better protection of the heads than the loose helmets with little padding that is currently worn. Additionally Hockey players may play 3-4-5 games in a week and therefore a concussion that lasts 6 days may involve missing 4 games - where in the NFL that same concussion would result in not missing a game - you are comparing apples and oranges with games miss. Based on a season - each NFL game missed would equal at minimum 5 NHL games and as I have said - many NHL players have had to retire due to concussions because the symptoms do not go away. Now - I totally agree that I think Tua most likely had a concussion on Sunday against the Bills and as I have stated - I think the NFLPA/NFL should be pushing for if a person has the “wobbly knees” where they can’t walk or goes to the wrong huddle type of sign - then they should automatically be placed into the protocol and not cleared to return - period, but that is not the rule the NFL/NFLPA agreed to. They agreed that the player would be evaluated independently and compared to a baseline test and if they can pass that and have no lingering symptoms- they can be cleared. Finally, to your bolded - It makes sense that no one would clear him - except they did. McDaniel has stated he was evaluated by the independent physician and he cleared the exam within reasonable expectations of his baseline and had no symptoms. So did the independent physician not do his job? Was the baseline testing that Tua did falsely low - to help him clear protocol quicker or avoid protocol altogether? Was the slow walk enough time for Tua to clear his head and pass the cognitive testing - should that have been done quicker? There are many things to question about the NFL’s protocol and how much should the league and teams do to protect the players from themselves, but if you have a standard - agreed to protocol - and the Dolphins can show it was followed then there is little to do.

It is difficult - players have repeated stated they have purposely lowered their baseline cognitive testing to help them clear protocol faster. That is not really on the NFL - the protocol will work if players follow the protocol correctly and answer the questions honestly, but the players want to play - so they have found ways to game the system. The issue is there are minor plays and major plays that could lead to concussions - I am not sure every time a guy gets a hand upside the head - they want to get a brain scan. Additionally the time and equipment to take and read a brain scan would be very difficult in a football stadium - so then are you pulling and sending these players to the hospital mid game for scans. The cognitive testing will work fine - if players take the baseline testing seriously and the protocol is followed, but if players decide to game the system to help them return there is little the NFL can do on their own - that is on the NFLPA for not instructing the players to take the baseline testing seriously and for asking for more baseline testing levels. Players all of the time have to have their helmets taking away to keep them from returning during games with injuries and in this case the Dolphins and Tua did themselves a disservice as he should never have been cleared Sunday and the protocol should have kept him out of the Thursday game, but whatever he did for baseline cognitive testing - Tua was able to repeat that and pass the cognitive testing and therefore there was nothing the NFL could do to stop him - he passed the agreed to required testing to get back.

That may or may not be true - what we know is the NFL has put in place a consistent and verifiable protocol to follow and took it out of the hands of team doctors that may have some stake in the game and brought in - independent teams to review and determine the outcomes. If the players - find loop holes that allow them to clear the protocol faster - that is not on the NFL for failing the players - that is on the players and the NLFPA. The NFL wants consistency and to show they are following the designed and agreed to protocols - that is their goal. The issue is a concussion is a very individual injury and the best/quick way to identify it is the cognitive tests. If as has been stated - Tua passed those cognitive tests - what grounds are there set up for someone to say - “No, you can’t play” - you may have had a concussion, but all testing shows you are fine. I would have been fine if the “wobbly legs” he displayed was enough to automatically put them in the full protocol, but that is not the agreed to rule and unless either Tua or the independent doctor comes forward and says something was not done according to protocol or Tua says I didn’t feel comfortable- the NFLPA has nothing to stand on. So far all we have heard is that Tua was evaluated (no timing on how quickly after the initial hit) and that he passed the cognitive tests that cleared him from the protocol and at that time the team decided it was less a head injury and more of a back issue (probably BS, but we are not there and the only thing he needed to do to return was pass his cognitive test). The worst part - is a good coach and training staff - never lets him back out against Buffalo - just to protect the player from himself and then re-evaluates throughout the week and most likely gives him another week to recover, but the Dolphins and Tua did themselves a disservice because he wanted to play and they want to win.

I don’t know if we will ever get all the facts, but it has been talked about before - in the off season/pre season they set baseline levels and players have talked about purposely providing dumbed down answers and doing poorly on the cognitive aspect to make it easier in game and post game to pass the concussion protocol. Typically - they quickly move you to the blue tent and begin the cognitive aspect - many times while they are still woozy and then hold them out. I would be super interested in - did the trip to the locker room give him time to gather his senses and did they initiate the cognitive testing immediately or did he tell them his back was the issue and they delayed the cognitive aspect while giving treatment to his back and allowed him more time to “recover” so he could pass. The fault for this situation may not be the independent doctor, but could be the player himself purposely lowered his baseline scores to make it easier to pass and then by going to the locker room gave himself enough time to regain enough cognitive ability to pass. In that case - the independent doctor can only say he passed the testing and can’t hold the player out and to me that is how the response from the NFL and Miami read. Tua passed his testing (they do not say exactly how quickly that was given in this case versus a normal sideline case) and therefore was cleared - The team still should be looking out for these players, but the truth is many of these players fight to come back - which is why helmets get taken away and hidden to protect the player from themselves. In this case the Dolphins cared more about winning the game than a players health and that is terrible. My guess is in the end - the NFLPA will not get anything out of this and hopefully the league will institute some better protocols - like was mentioned previously- if a player experienced any sort of leg wobble, falling down - they are automatically ruled out for the game.

Nope - stupid Trolls are trolls as was stated before. Real Einstein this one. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

No because Bryant was elevated to the 53 man roster and I believe they have 3 elevations from the PS this year - not 2.

I have 2 issues Bolded above. There is risk involved - especially as short yardage and goal line plays tend to lead to potentially bigger hits and more frequent contact. Second we are trying to run Josh less and now people want to go for 2 and run Josh more in these situations. Take the one point and blow people out - save the 2 points for when you need it.

No moves - Bobby Hart - suspended. That is why Mancz was called up - nothing to do with Morse.

My expectations since everything we have seen is they would struggle against teams like the Titans, Rams, Ravens, etc - teams with good DL - to hit 50 %. They struggle in tight situations like that to score and those plays often expose Josh to bigger hits. My preference would be keep doing what they are doing and do not chase points for what at the end of the year equates to about +1 points per game. Math works out to what about 35-40 TDs when the game is in range - about 50% success - 18 - 20 points for the season - 1 point per game - just not enough to make it worth while for the added risk. JMO

Especially since Hyde is traveling with the team - he will be there to make sure these guys are ready and will get everyone together. It was a typical “Hot Take” from Thad.

Maybe, but they do not save much by cutting him - 7million Dead Cap versus 10 million to play. They save a touch over 3 million and maybe his leadership is worth that. I think if he wants to come back - they will make room for him and if he wants to retire - they will work that out.

This is not correct at all. He is out an can not practice for the first 4 weeks. Once the Bills decide to activate him - which they can do at any time after week 4 concludes - they then have 3 weeks of roster exemption for him to practice before they add him to the active roster. So at this point - the only contact with the team is look at his rehab - he can not participate in any on field practice activities at this time until after the Ravens game. The Monday after the Ravens game is the first day they could activate him, but they do not have to - he can stay on PUP longer and still not practice - just as he is now. Once they decide to activate him to active PUP - then the clock starts ticking and they have 3 weeks for him to practice with the team, but still not count. During this 3 weeks at any point the Bills can move him to Active Roster where he will be available to play and will count against the roster and a move will need to be made. The team could decide to move him to active PUP the Monday after the Ravens game - give him the entire Pittsburgh week and the Chiefs week to get back into shape and then activate him to the roster before the Chiefs game (or Pittsburgh if they really wanted to) or they could wait until later in the season if everyone comes back to being healthy. The one thing that is certain is he can not be activated after the Dolphins game - the Ravens game is the 4th week and that is the minimum. Once he clears a hurdle and gets activated and can start practicing- then we will get some answers, but before that - there is little to see or talk about.

I agree - you don’t blame Chubb, but watching that drive - I do blame Hunt who twice went out of bounds well after picking up the 1st downs that cost them a ton of time. Stay inbounds and the Browns win. Now Chubb could of easily just ran out of bounds at the 1 because the 2 minute warning was after his play - so the clock was stopping either way, but I think that had little outcome - it was decisions before and poor coaching after that cost them the game. I agree, but as this was the play that took the clock to the 2minute warning - so the clock was stopping- he could of ran OOB at the 1 - much like he did years ago and guaranteed the win. I don’t blame Chubb - Hunt was a much bigger issue - but that was bad situational football for an offense that entire drive.

I will repeat that Chubb should of known better, but his TD run started at 2:02 - without a 1st down (sliding down inside the 2) the Browns couldn’t run out the clock. The Bonehead was Kareem Hunt - he cost the Browns the game. The Browns scored on a 42 yard drive that took just 35 seconds and was 6 plays, but the biggest issue is twice after getting 1st downs - Hunt ran OB before the 2 minute warning and both times he was well past the 1st down line and just needed to get down. 1st on 3rd and 6 with 2:15 left - Hunt catches an 11 yard swing pass and goes out of bound taking only 6 seconds and leaving the Jets 1 time out. Then after using a timeout on Hunts next run- Hunt breaks outside for 11 yards and goes out of bound with 2:02 left. That was egregious. That made it 1st down from the 12 and of course then Chubb scores. The only chance the Jets had was if Chubb scored and then he did them that favor. That was terrible coaching and more importantly terrible field awareness by 2 veteran players - and I hope that costs the Browns their season. Stupid team, Stupid coach, Stupid organization.

Not only that, but if you watch the DL - AJ goes upfield outside and the other DT and DE both were sliding to the right. I think it was a designed slide right - giving Edmunds the inside gap, but the DT got stoned by the guard and it opened a hole where the DT should of been. You would love to see Edmunds then forgo his gap and fill the opening, but that is not Tremaine - he does his 1/11th and is right where he should be because McD teaches do your responsibilities and allow others to do their responsibility. If Edmunds hits outside and the DT fights through - suddenly you leave a gap in the middle. Without benefit of knowing the call - I do not blame Edmunds and to go a step further - The DT got moved backwards into Edmunds and that limited his flow once he was sure his area was secure.

My take is if the Bills had resigned Wallace as many wanted - most likely Wallace and Jackson would have been starting. Benford (and Elam for that manner) are both way more gifted physically than Wallace and both can make plays Wallace simply couldn’t, but they also have a benefit of a pass rush in week 1 that was devastating and a team in week 2 that was limited at WR. I would most definitely take Benford and Elam (and Jackson) over Wallace - especially long term, but there will be games where they get tricked and Wallace would have done his job. To me Wallace is like Edmunds - he manages to do his job correctly almost 100% of the time, but that means many times he is not in the best place to make a huge play - he just make the steady correct play and move on to the next down. I think they wanted more at CB and therefore you have Elam and Benford locked and loaded - long term improvements in place.

Overall - once again it shows McD and the coaching staff know and understand the team better than the fans. They recognized Game 1 in prime time is a tough spot to insert a rookie full time. They split time with the CBs, didn’t give Cook a go until the initial emotions settled and he still fumbled, made Shakir inactive - They recognized the difficulties. Shakir will be fine - he and Josh have almost no time together on the practice field and Josh is not a 3 step drop and throw to a spot QB - it takes time to understand how to read Josh and be on the same page. Nothing in game 1 discourages me - it is the start of a long path, but he was not ready and Moss - even with all of his faults - was ready and that is why he is dressed for now.

I know - maybe if you lookin a mirror you will find out. It is pretty easy.

I don’t know about that, but the real issue is that twice prior to that Hunt went out of bounds including the play before with 2:02 left. If Chubb goes down the clock stops with 1:55 and it is 2nd down (unless he just slides at the 2, but either way the bigger issue was Hunt. Did anyone notice who the holder for the Browns is? Good old Bojo holding on a missed XP - coincidence? Hmm.

I said he should of just slide in bounds. Earlier on the drive - twice Hunt went out of bounds on runs to the sideline. Bad coaching and worse execution.

Another Gem from Einstein. Love that any troll can just post whatever garbage flows through the tiny brain. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

My god this is just terrible. Dane was tackling a bigger receiver and Edmunds was rallying to the ball. Burks dropped as he saw Edmunds coming causing Edmunds to go over the top. If Edmunds doesn’t rally and Burks breaks away people complain that why didn’t he make the play. Friendly fire happens all the time - Diggs does that same thing where he just drops and the coming defender hits another defensive player that is on top. Edmunds was never going to get penalized for that play and it is not done to get Stats - it is done as part of team tackling - everyone get there and take these guys to the ground. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Yeah and only on TBD can you find “fans” that complain about how a guy is slow, lacks instincts, can’t make plays, doesn’t tackle, etc. and then also complain when said player comes up to hit a guy and make sure he is down and when that guy ducks accidentally hits his own player. That happens all the time and it especially happens to players flying around making plays including some HOF level players. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Two Pittsburgh Kids - very close. Got to be super tough.

So you think Matt is making it up? What is the point of this comment? Who are the 2 Friendly Fire? Dane was obviously. Poyer got hurt making a solo tackle - hit his head on thigh. Phillips got hurt in the open field running all alone looking to make a block. Milano got a stinger destroying the QB 1 on 1. Who am I missing?