Rochesterfan

Yes - I think the league was quite busy dealing with other things associated with the events. At no time did they state the NFL told them it would be a five minute warmup. They did say they heard from the people on the field - so was the NFL decision makers on the field. I am sure the sideline reporter talked to the head of officiating who quoted standard SOP - a five minute warmup and then the game resumes and that is what Buck and Aikman quoted. That is also where Van Pelt got his info from the broadcast. I do not for a second believe anyone at ESPN was in contact with high up league officials during that break.

Again was Joe Buck getting his info directly from the NFL? More likely Buck and Aikman were getting info from the Referee assigned to them who stated the standard SOP is a five minute warm up and play resumes. People quoting Buck or Van Pelt as the NFL directed teams that the game would resume with a five minute break is stupid. They were not in contact with the league. Who was in contact with the league - it appears the Refs and the HC of each team and after their discussion the players were sent to the locker room. Following additional discussion - the game was suspended pending further discussion. I am not saying the NFL is 100% clear, but the decision to suspend a game needed league, both team, and NFLPA input and was not something that was decided in the time Hamlin was injured. Hence getting the players off and having time to discuss the entirety of the situation. Again - in the end the correct decision was made and the five minute thing was announced by people covering the game with no input or discussion with the league. It was based entirely on normal SOP for an abnormal situation. Edit: Honestly I believe Aikman and Buck had really no idea what to say and the 5 minute warmup was really them filling time as they couldn’t really talk about what was happening.

Scott Van Pelt asked about that several times, but never got an answer. He was assuming as that is what the broadcast stated. The sidelined reporters said the Bills huddled up and Diggs gave a speech, but the coaches and the Refs were still in discussion. Then word came to clear the field. The timing suggests the players and the on field Refs discussed a restart with the coaches - the coaches talked and made sure the league was aware the players were not ready. They cleared the field to allow time for the coaches to better get a feel and then the coaches and the league talked and came to a proper decision. There should be no blame - The league got it right - they consulted with the coaches who said it was a no go and they suspended the game. The league should make that decision in consultation with the teams and did just that. The five minute thing was just standard post big injury timing. Yes the league could have announced the suspension sooner, but it was obvious the Bills and Bengal players knew well before the announcement.

Exactly Correct - wish I could like this x 1000. Real time the NFL doesn’t have all the facts - the standard after this is to give the players 5 minutes and the coaches and Referees realized that was not going to happen. The game was officially called at 10:01, but they showed stuff at 9:30 to 9:45 that players were changing at that point they knew the game was done well before it was announced. You can be ticked at the NFL, but they worked with the team as they should and they made the correct call. People want to lay blame, but the truth is they got it right and the coaches and teams directed the decision as they should.

Yes they do. Even the NFLPA agreed that protocols were followed in the Bills game. He stumbled - they tested him for a concussion and he passed - they used an additional loophole to get him back on the field and have since closed that loophole. If they show no signs the independent team should not be responsible for pulling the player. If they show no signs on the field it becomes important for the player, his teammates, and the coaching and training staff to help identify a situation. Again - even in the GB game the NFLPA found nothing wrong and they have the most to gain. Things happen and symptoms develop sometimes 2 or 4 or even 24 hours later - how teams handle it at that point when presented is the key.

If we beat Cincinnati- there is no decision on how to play week 18 - you go all out and eliminate NE and secure the #1 seed. Their motivation is irrelevant- the Bills win in Cincinnati they have to beat NE and let everything fall into place.

Yes, but you don’t think Campbell and Detroit wouldn’t be itching to know GB out of the Playoffs. I actually don’t think it impacts that game very much - I think Detroit - even if eliminated- would want to do everything to eliminate GB and may actually be more aggressive since they have nothing to lose.

The original thread started out talking about how much better Mayfield looked with a competent HC and I just do not see a difference overall between Baker in LA and Baker at each of his other stops. Yes - it has been 100% a tough spot for him coming in mid season, but for most of the Raider game he looked unimpressive until the last drive and then got tons of credit for leading an impressive last drive on 4 days practice. Game 2 he was bad and again it was he is still learning. Game 3 versus Denver - he looked like an MVP candidate (significantly better than Mahomes) against a good defensive team, but Denver appeared to give up on that game early. Game 4 versus the Chargers he once again looked like a below average QB against a team that had something to play for. I guess in my mind - I would be very hesitant to assume with better coaching you are getting a better Mayfield. Depending on the injury to Stafford - Mayfield to me is a major step down from 2021 and before Stafford and is on par with injured 2022 Stafford. I also think you have built the Rams with WR talent that Stafford uses, but Baker is more a TE thrower - which was a big part of why OBJ had issues in Cleveland. I think sticking with Mayfield drives OBJ away from the Rams and back towards an east coast team. We will see how it goes and I am sure they would love to keep Mayfield, but I am not sure that a prove it deal gets it done there and I am not sure he is a great fit for the McVay offense long term.

So last week we had the Baker Mayfield “up” game and this week he was back “down”. I don’t know where he will end up or if he stays in LA, but my god is the man inconsistent. Barely over 100 yards in the SOFI “dome” and barely over 50% completions. He is the same player in LA - he was in Cleveland and Carolina - fine when ahead and below average when the game is on his shoulders.

Maybe - Ogbah could net them almost 10 million in a conversion, but with limited term left - it makes it nearly impossible to cut him. Byron Jones is a 14+ million cap hit. They could save 3 million+ cutting him, but then have to replace him. They can certainly find a bit of money to do what they need, but being that far over the cap without paying a QB makes things harder.

Howard doesn’t save them much for next year as his base is only 1.5 million. Hill can get them around 10 million converting base to a bonus and spreading that out the remains 4 years, but his signing bonus is enormous and makes it harder to get out as he ages.

This is just wrong for the protocol. The “whiplash” and hitting of the head has no impact on the observer deciding if they enter protocol or not. It doesn’t matter if it is his first and he has no documented concussions or if it is Tua or Morse with documented history - the hit to the head is irrelevant- they must show some signs/symptoms for the observer to pull him. Therefore; your whole premise that “IF THEIR OBSERVATION PEOPLE WERE PROPERLY TRAINED” is totally wrong. The observers are properly trained and per the NFL and more importantly the NFLPA - the observers followed protocol correctly and there was no issue with the play. Again - when Mitch Morse got his last concussion - he was not pulled by observers - he felt symptoms and self reported during the game. There is no reason that Tua couldn’t do the same. As the NFLPA stated - the protocol was followed and there was nothing done wrong. The NFLPA has also stated they are 100% against stratification of players to identify concussions because it will impact contracts as those players are more likely to be pulled for no reason mid-game.

How many players have had concussions in the NFL? How do you decide who to pull based on a routine play? The NFLPA made it clear they did not want players to be targeted because it could potentially cost them money and contract length if players with previous concussions could be pulled every time they hit their head. They specifically wanted the spotters looking for signs. If there are no signs - don’t pull him and the teams and players are responsible for identifying issues afterwards.

Again hitting is head is not a reason to pull the player. The NFLPA was specific in what the independent team is looking for and just hitting you head would pull a ton of players out every game. They have to show signs - motor impairment, stumbling, looking dazed, going toward 5he wrong sideline or huddle, not looking stable, ataxia, etc. and Tua showed none of that. After that it is the team and the players that have to help and protect each other. That play does not show anything about if the NFL cared or not - it was a routine play in this league and was handled correctly.

Is the NFL supposed to make up symptoms for the players or identify concussions when there are no signs or symptoms present? Why blame the NFL for any of this? Tua was tackled by a normal/routine tackle - got up with no signs of an issue. He meet with teammates and coaches after the play - no one said or did anything to suggest he had a concussion. The next day he presented with symptoms and the team put him in protocol. It sounds to me like the team and the league handled it correctly. Now if Tua had symptoms during the game and did not say something - that is 100% on him. If he did say something and the team ignored it - that is on them. Finally, if his teammates thought there was an issue and they did not do anything - well then shame on them for not being there for their teammate and shame on the Dolphins for their culture. Unfortunately- at this time all sign directly point to everyone handled it correctly and delayed symptoms showed up post game.

Well - if he did it for the Money - why didn’t he stay in GB. Pat was talking about that on his show - how GB offered Adams more money, but what Adams wanted and was looking for (along with the money) was playing with a stable QB that they could build something around. Adams talked about being sick of Rodgers and the yearly retirement and FA talk and decided to leave to go play with his college teammates that just signed a long term contract. They even talked on the show about whether he was going to come back or try to work his way out of LV to go play where Carr lands. So I guess I do not believe Money was the only reason and I think the Raiders screwed him by making this move. I think he legitimately wanted to play with Carr and wanted them to be a team for several years. Adams also worked to get a head of the questions with the reporters and he certainly did not look like what he was saying was PR related - he was legitimately hurt that Carr was benched and sent home - he looked angry and frustrated with the situation.

All of this is 100% true, but it still does not change the fact that Willis not playing was more a result of them resting all of their staters than a true Carr style benching. If this was a game the Titans had to win to stay alive - I do not believe for a second the team starts Dobbs over Willlis in this game. Now what this game did was give them a chance to see what Dobbs could do with a near full week of prep and see if he gives them a better shot of beating Jacksonville than Willis (and it certainly seems like he might). I just do not believe Willis not playing this week is a massive indictment against him - now that changes if and when they decide to play Dobbs over Willis next week in Jacksonville. It also highlights how bad Willis is, but it was not an Apples to Apples comparisons as without Henry the Titans offered little in the run game and therefore had to pass more as an offense in general, but Dobbs was at least competent in doing that last evening.

This isn’t a must win game. This is exactly the opposite - a totally meaningless game. Hence why Tennessee is sitting most of their staters including Willis. My goodness - this is a totally wasted thread with people just making up scenarios without any understanding of what is going on. They are sitting him as they are starting a back-up O-line and you do not want him getting hurt before the only “must win” game next week versus Jacksonville.

Not necessarily- if Tennessee plans to rest some/most of their O-Line do you really want to put a raw rookie behind back-ups against a Dallas team that likes to get after the QB. It is a recipe for disaster. If they play Willis - they need to play their starting O-Line and then you probably might as well play your starting WR and TE to get some time with and now in a meaningless game you can’t rest anyone. I actually think they are being smart here. If you don’t care about the game - get as many players rest and get ready for Jacksonville.

Not going to read a ton into this. The Dallas game means nothing to Tennessee and the Cowboys can really rush the passer - I think you get to give a guy some snaps and protect the rookie a bit just in case he is going to destroyed in the pocket - you need someone ready for the Jacksonville game.

Don’t worry about them trading for him - that would be helpful because they would be picking up a huge contract and giving draft capital. He most likely will not be traded for multiple reasons: 1st he has a No Trade Clause meaning he gets to decide where to get traded. 2nd We are past the trade deadline for this year - so it would have to happen after the open of the 2023 NFL season in March. 3rd His 40 million guaranteed contract kicks in 3 days post Super Bowl - so if the Raiders don’t cut him before that - he costs the Raiders a ton of Money and cap space with dead cap hits even if traded. The only way he gets traded is if he agrees to a bunch Raider requests to waive the No Trade Clause, and postpone the start of his contract until after the start of the new league year and you have a team that has the draft capital and the willingness to take on the huge contract. I would be significantly more worried those teams or many others are going to get Carr for a much better contract (about 1/2 his current deal) and not have to give up capital - just guarantee his contract - after he gets cut in a few weeks.

They must have posted something because my daughter loves them and follows them and excitedly was talking about him signing in LV - so from one dumpster fire to another.

No because then you are pulling players in mid game based on did he hit his head or not and not whether there appeared to be an issue. If the independent consultant has the power to pull players that get hit, but show no signs - that is going to cost players in their contract negotiations. Going forward - what would Tua be worth if potentially after every sack or take down they had to pull him for a couple of plays - he would never self report and he would do everything to make it as easy as possible to get back and you are actually defeating the purpose of what they are trying to do. They have rules in place and in my opinion should not deviate based on history. The team should be evaluating the players via interactions throughout the game - they and the player have the onus to catch these types of issues if something happens. Hell in NE just by looking another player knew there was an issue and got the play stopped - if Tua was showing anything why wouldn’t his teammates do the same? Even if the independent pulled him for a minute after the play - that does not necessarily change what happened - a player can easily get a concussion and not show any effects for 24 hours.

The spotters are looking for signs - after hitting his head - Did he stumble, Did he reach up and grab his head, Did he Fence, Did he walk toward the wrong huddle, Did he shake his head as if cobwebs, etc. Since Tua did none of those things - the spotters had absolutely no reason to pull the player. After that - it is 100% on the coaches, teammates, and the player to say something if a player seems off during interactions, huddle, halftime, etc. In this case we have no idea how those interactions went and if he showed any signs, but it was a bit worrisome that in his post game press conference he was having issues talking through a few interceptions and what went wrong. If there were signs during the game Miami should be in trouble for ignoring them, but based upon everything being said there were no signs. Tua then it sounded like self reported signs the next day - maybe parts of the game were fuzzy, maybe he was having headaches, maybe he was having light sensitivity, etc. Once reported - per protocol - the Dolphins entered him into concussion protocol and now he will have to clear. In this case - it does not appear the spotters or the NFL did anything wrong. We do not know what the Dolphins saw in interactions, but it was before halftime so the boy genius Head Coach spent a bunch of time with him so the only potential miss lies with the Dolphins team.

Although I agree in general we are not a lot different than other teams - I do totally disagree that this view has to do with Tre White and his recovery. The truth is compared to many teams - the Bills have been overly cautious on most soft tissue injuries compared to teams around the league. Typically any kind of strain or pull of a muscle/hamstring/quad etc. has been met with 1-2 weeks of limited practice time and typically missing at minimum of 1 game. They do the same thing with ankles, knee, foot injuries - where a player might feel ok to give it a go, but they hold them out for an extra week. Your examples are correct - Tommy Doyle played with a torn ACL and McDermott praised his toughness - he also stated they did not know until after the game he did that. Tommy refused to let the team down and that is no different than many players. I do not think the Bills are above playing an injured player - especially if that player has clearance and wants to play - Ala Mitch Morse and Cole Beasley. So I do not think they are some Holier Than Thou team in that regards, but I also think they are still on the cutting edge of injury evaluation and time to recovery and they work hard to make sure guys have enough time to recover when possible, but it is a balancing act. I think both the Team and Gabe knew with his ankle he was coming back to soon and would be negatively impacted, but they needed WR help at the time and he could go - so they played him. They had LB depth and have allowed Milano and Edmunds to miss games to recover to try and prevent further injury - even though their replacements led to some dismal defensive performances. They have done similar things at Safety and DL with Oliver, Phillips, and Poyer all getting time off to recover as needed - even if that meant going to multiple practice squad DL. So while I agree overall with the premise that the Bills are not really different from other NFL teams - I will say there are numerous examples of them giving time off beyond Tre White that shows the Bills utilize analytics and history to help guide them on injuries as much or more than other teams.