Rochesterfan

That is not true - we have myltiple direct TV receivers and run up up 6 games during the day with multiple TVs and using the IPad for my daughter away at college. Plus as a long time member they parse it out and typically give us it for free or with other discounts without ever asking.

Or you like Football and get a bunch of crap games in your area - other than the Bills. We got Sunday Ticket in Rochester because the 2nd game was always Jets/Giants/Dallas - not anything we wanted to watch. It has been better with the Bills playing more Primetime games - we watch multiple games on different TVs and rarely is it the garbage the networks choose for your area. Plus a game gets boring or out of hand and we switch it up. I love the package cause I choose what I want to see and we will probably look to YouTube going forward - happy to Move on after 25 years.

I am not going to assign blame - I think the Dolphins just had a perfect route combo against a defense and made the play. My guess is if you talked to the players - Poyer would blame himself for coming to far down and not getting back and Hamlin would blame his positioning and his angle, but sometimes the offense wins. It looked like a trick combo coverage - they show a standard 2 high shell, but on the snap rotate to a 1 high safety, but it looks like the intention was for Hamlin to maintain his deep half over the trips side. I think the Bills developed the defense for a formation like that expecting the Dolphins to run a shorter crossing route with Waddle or Hill right into Poyer and Hamlin over the top in case the other Hill or Waddle went deep, In this case, the Dolphins ran Waddle on the deep over and Hill deep at Hamlin and with Poyer rotating up it left the huge gap that Hamlin could not cover. I believe Tremaine (or Tremont if you want to use the name Mark uses) - recognized the spacing and communicated with Poyer and Poyer got over anxious and overplayed his hand and it left the massive hole. To me it looked like the Bills created a defensive scheme to counter something the Dolphins have done and the Dolphins countered with different patterns and it burned the Bills - no blame - just something that happens from time to time.

@BullBuchanan Glad to see you can complain, but not provide any insight - just a statement - “I would have scored a TD with less than 10 seconds” - Good for you - no idea how or what plan if it failed. If you are just going to make a statement up - then I would of scored 40 more points and it would have been moot. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I think Cover 1 also talked about Warners film review, but they thought that Warner reads and diagnoses based on how he played - on schedule and from the pocket. They also disagreed with several of Warners takes because they do not fit with how the Bills run the offense and the expectations. They specifically mentioned that they thought Warner struggled with off production offenses that do not read and play in the same rhythm that he was used to. They stated many of his reads would be fine if he was the QB, but they are not how the Bills run the offense with Josh at QB and Kurt has failed to adapt to these new schemes. We will see, but I am not sure that a Hall of Fame QB is better than a guy that has studied the Bills system for a longer period of time. Both points of view may be valid, but I would trust guys that actually see practice when they can and talk to the players - over a guy watching the film to understand what the Bills are doing and seeing. Not a big deal - just another point of view.

So explain what your plan because it makes no sense. So let’s say he got the 1st down and the Dolphins stopped the clock with 34 seconds left. 1st and goal. What are you play choices? What do you do if stopped are you kicking the FG? What is the plan because just saying you are scoring a TD with under 10 seconds is not possible with 1 play so we need to understand where this beautiful mind plan is coming from. Two things to remember - 1 - the Dolphins are probably trying to help you score on the first play, but would most likely be trying to hold up the RB and strip the ball on any subsequent plays. 2- If you do get stopped - what is you plan to score are you calling your final timeout at 0:02 seconds and kicking the FG?

Totally correct - if you watch the Dolphin that dives over Singletary- he was not going to wrap up - the 2 Dolphin potential tacklers were both coming from behind and looked after he went down like they had intentions of trying to hit and drive him forward toward the goal line. I don’t think either one had intentions of trying to tackle him in play.

So you bleed the clock to what - the Dolphins stopped the clock with 34 seconds with their final timeout. If you run the ball to score it takes what 4-5 seconds - you are kicking off to the Dolphins with 30 seconds left - you can’t bleed the clock unless you go down in play. So if you are scoring you are giving them 30 seconds - probably 4 plays to get a shot at a TD. That is significantly easier for the Dolphins to still win than standing there with 0:02 seconds and trying to stop a FG from the 20 yard line. In your scenario the only way to do what you suggest would be after Singletary went down - have him run another play and get down to bleed the clock to 10 seconds, use a timeout, then run another play trying to score and hope he doesn’t get held up and either he scores or you still have to kick a FG after additional snaps. It is insane and 100% the worst way to play it.

Look - I get what you are saying, but I also think that Kurt is basing everything on how his OC ran plays and is very much behind the times on modern off schedule offenses. Kurt would be 100% correct if we were running a SF style timing offense where the WRs have a precise route to run and the QB hits 3 steps and throws. The Bills offense is not that - they run a lot of option routes where the WRs read leverage and adjust the routes. They also do a lot of “scramble drill” routes where if Josh moves you break off a route and adjust. These just seem to be concepts that Warner is just not used to in an offensive style as he was a pocket timing passer. These things lead to occasionally 2 WRs in a similar area as both saw similar leverage or saw Josh start to flow and are working their way over to open areas to present themselves in his sight line. They are the same things that Dabol did - I just think Dabol left more for Josh to handle - less chipping and TE help and those guys just go into the route and Dorsey as a former QB is trying to help Josh, but it puts less people into the initial route. I also think Josh has a bunch of “Easy Button” throws available, but he does not take them as much as some other QBs. I actually think he has as many or more easy throws available than Mahomes, but both of those guys look to push when they see a single coverage rather than take the 1-2 yard completion. I think that is more on Josh than on Dorsey. I will be interested to see as I believe a new Cover 1 film room was coming out - how their views compare to Warners. They have watched the Bills offense evolve and have spent time talking with the players so I think it will be an interesting contrast as I think they are better versed in the concepts this team is running versus Warner that really looks at the QB position from how he played and was taught.

That is not really true. The X’s and O’s are not exactly the same depending upon the QB and design. The idea on zone coverage schemes is to find 1 or 2 guys and pressure them with multiple guys in that zone and then to hit one of them as they become free, but the QB and OC watch tape and mark tendencies to decide which windows they think provide an opening they want to attack. The 1st play is a perfect example - the Bills run a 3 level concept at the top of the screen to pressure the zone. The short throw for a short gain is open throughout for a quick lay-up throw and 4-5 yards and on to second down. Diggs at 10 yards is who Kurt wants to hit and based on Defense and tendencies- he is open for a 10 yard gain, but if you watch - when Josh sets to throw that way - the deep CB and the 2 LBs break on Diggs. That is the throw the defense expects and the throw they are working to get to as Josh throws. Josh seemed to anticipate this and that put McK in a 1:1 with a safety in trail technique. That is the window they wanted to attack - especially early with good weather because that deep third then pressures that CB all night to be 1-2 steps deeper making the other windows open slightly more. In Man to Man coverage - the Bills look for a lot of 1:1 routes where a guy gets caught in trail technique. Again there was an easy set-up to the RB on the inside route, but from the snap and with the defensive set-up - Josh knew he had Morris 1:1 with a route versus the RB that was going to end up with a LB inside and a DB outside based on the routes. Josh recognized before the snap the defense and knew where he wanted to go and then moved to position himself for the throw. Kurt is not incorrect in that if Josh stays in the pocket and reads the break - he holds the LB and leaves a nice window to Cook, but based upon the study and why the Bills called the play - Josh from the snap knew where the mismatch coverage was and what he wanted to get. The X’s and O’s May dictate one way to read the play, but the QB and OC also make certain plays where they look for a specific expected coverage and run plays to exploit that coverage to give leverage to a specific player to make a play. That play was not about Cook versus the inside route - Cook’s route was designed to ensure the LB and his coverage player stayed short and out of the passing lane to the TE in a 1:1 near the goal line. I truly believe it is one of the things that many of these experts do not understand about Josh - he is super cerebral and recognizes many things based upon film study and tendencies and makes reads based upon that. It can screw him up if a player on defense goes off script - for example rather than cover Cook - if his guy had drifted back to provide double coverage unexpectedly, but that is when Josh gets off script and then usually buys time to look for a second or third guy to win his coverage. In this case - the Defense did exactly what the Bills expected and Josh rolled to his right to give himself a better angle with no chance to get the pass tipped.

I disagree slightly here on a couple of points - first - on the first play he diagrams I think the Dolphins are trying to bait the throw to Diggs. The CB and the LBs begin breaking on Diggs as Josh begins to set-up. I think from experience Josh know exactly what was going to happen. He sets up and chooses the throw to McK in the deep window because he knew the CB was going to drop down and open the window. Yes he might have had a completion to Diggs, but I think Josh saw the coverage and recognized where the window was. He could easily take a few shorter throws, but I actually think Josh recognizes things better in real time based on tendencies that Kurt did reviewing tape others cut up for him. The second play Warner is not incorrect, but I am not sure I agree with him either. If Josh stays in the pocket - the spying LB stays back and if Josh hits the RB - he is running right into the LB and the safety with coverage - he gains 3 to 5 yards. Josh on the play knew from the snap that with the routes Morris was 1:1 with space to the outside - Josh rolled out to give himself a better angle on the throw he knew he was going to attempt. He trusts his guys in 1:1 situations to win and he wanted a better angle. I believe Warner might have hit the RB on the route and taken a short gain because when he played the LB would not have been spying him and therefore would have most likely dropped back leaving a bigger space. Yes Josh ran the Spy into the RB window, but that was never the throw he was making - he read the 1:1 and at that point the spy became irrelevant to the play. Kurt wants him to stay and read, but Josh had already diagnosed the weak spot in the D and the coverage they wanted to attack. Warner is fine looking at plays, but I think he grossly underestimates Josh’s ability to diagnose and decide where to go and to recognize what the defenders are going to do. He does not read things the same as Kurt because they have different experiences, but in several of these plays Josh is finding the 1:1 and open windows to allow his guys to make plays.

For me the answer to this is a resounding NO!!!!!! The Bills looked at a big body/big catch radius guy because they were concerned about accuracy. Now that he has accuracy- give me route runners all day long. Guys that can get separation and guys that can follow Josh when he scrambles and get open. Josh is good enough at hitting windows everywhere that I do not want a slow guy posting up for catches unless he can also get open in the middle of the field also.

I agree - you see that as Josh sets to throw - the CB and LBs both break to Diggs - that was the throw they were baiting. It opens up McKenzie for the throw Josh made. It was a bit high, but that was the read. The Dolphins set the defense up to converge on a throw to Diggs and even though I think he might have completed it for 10 yards - they were looking to get a big shot on him. Kurt never even mentions the fact that as Josh sets to throw - the deep CB that Kurt says is preventing the McKenzie throw is already breaking down at Diggs leaving a huge window.

I am going to try and watch more later, but I am 2 plays in on Knox’s catch and Warner misdiagnosed the defense. He called it a single high safety and diagnosed what to do, but if you watch at the snap they switch it up to a 2 high defense with the outside CB dropping into a deep half look. I then saw the Cover 1 Knox video and they confirmed this. I am not sure that Kurt is actually doing the work on these - I think someone else is putting it together and Kurt is doing the minimum. Even the 1st play where Josh overthrew the target - Kurt is like take the easy throw, but you can see Miami dropping off and baiting that throw - I don’t think Kurt is anywhere near as caught up on defenses as he tries to sound and I think he is talking as if it was still the early 2000’s when he played. So far I am not impressed with his understanding of the Bills offense and his lack of seeing the Defense. If he was the QB - both throws would have gone short to the underneath routes for small gains, but he would not have faced a defense that is having to protect all levels the way teams have to with Allen and Mahomes.

I think this is hugely understated. The Bills schedule is significantly harder this year and the defenses have been stellar and yet they are producing more in most major categories.

Thank you for this. It is insane to me the way people are complaining about a top flight offense that is currently playing better than at any point in the past. Do they have things to clean up - yep, but last year people complained about Dabol and play design and to much trickery. Dorsey is moving people around and getting guys open just as they have in the past. He is attacking defenses with multiple concepts and has things open everywhere and he is doing it without being able to just run a TE outside because speed rushers have been killing the tackles - so he is using backs and TEs to chip and then filter out. I just give them time - if The OL can protect and slow down rushes - the WRs. TEs, and RBs get open for Josh. Once again the running game with limited snaps - is putting up excellent numbers and I believe still has a streak of 100 yards rushing in every game thanks to Josh, Singletary, and Cook.

The only thing I will say is 13 seconds occurred because the Bills needed a TD because they were down by 4. If a FG was needed to win - the Bills never leave 13 seconds, but in that game they had to take the TD when it came. I am not saying he hasn’t learned from the 13 seconds, but it was not like the coaching staff wanted to leave 13 seconds - they just needed a TD to overcome the 4 point deficit. They learned from watching the Browns lose to the Jets on a similar play and they already knew the Dolphins (and several offensive teams like themselves) have the ability to easily move and at least have TD looks in 30+ seconds with a timeout.

Nope - no chance Tua leads them to a TD with 34 seconds and a timeout - I mean just because it had already happened once in that game already. I mean it is not like the Dolphins had completed a 60+ yard TD pass earlier in the game as part of a 3 play 72 yard TD drive in 50 seconds with no timeouts. Whether you could see the ball was a camera angle on TV - at the game it was obvious it went through. Percentage chance to win - A FG/XP from the pre moved XP days was about 98% The Dolphins have 10 TD drives of 6 plays or less and 60+ yards on about 140 drives that is about 7%. Therefore the Bills scoring a TD gave the Dolphins over 3 times the percentage increase in a chance to tie or win the game. A TD was the wrong move 100% of the time in that situation. I can not understand how anyone could argue otherwise. Even if he missed the FG - it meant OT - whereas a kick-off to Miami meant they controlled whether the game went to OT or maybe they go for 2 and the win and you lose in regulation. Just look at the Browns/Jets game earlier in the season where Chubb just had to go down to guarantee a victory - instead he scored and the Jets scored 2 TDs (with an on-side kick) to win the game. Just look at earlier in the day where Minnesota came back from 33 points with some big plays. Heck just look at how Miami beat Baltimore earlier in the season with 3 long TD passes late in the game to overcome an insurmountable deficit. I just can not believe there is any debate about whether it was the right call because all of the numbers and analytics support the decision. Plus the mantra of the Bills (and most teams) is control what you can control. If they can control the final play for a win - that is what teams want to do. That is always what they should be doing - you have control over the outcome. Giving the ball back to Miami allows the Refs and the Dolphins to have input and gives the Dolphins control over plays and whether to score and go for 2 and win or tie with an XP.

Well considering in that game alone the Dolphins already had a 3 play 51 second 72 yard touchdown drive and early had a 5 play drive at slightly over 1 minute for a FG. The week before the Dolphins had a 3 play 65 yard TD drive in just over 1 minute. A 7 play 53 yard TD against the Browns in 53 seconds. A 4 play 75 yard drive against Chicago - it took 2 minutes with the running clock, but using a timeout and with OOB time stops that would have been 30 seconds of game time. A similar 4 play 70+ yard drive versus Detroit for a TD. 4 Long TD drives versus Baltimore - 2 in 1 minute and 2 slightly longer because of the clock rules. So on the season the Dolphins have about 10+ drives of 60 to 90+ yards in 7 plays or less - several in 3 or 4 plays and several in well under a minute without using timeouts or OOB stoppage that they have here at the end. So to me - a shot at a 97-99% chip shot FG versus giving the ball back to a team that has already scored 10 times on long limited play drives with time and a timeout should be a no brainer 100% kick the FG with :00 on the clock and do not give them the chance to perhaps score to tie or choose to win. Control the outcome on offense.

I don’t disagree - I thought it was interference - it just is not called anywhere near as much if both players are facing the ball versus the WR facing the ball and the defender running away from the QB. The arms around the WR well before the ball arrives is worse than a defender running in the way, but it is called the other way more.

To me the biggest difference between Miami on McK - the defender never played the ball at all. He ran straight into McK as McK stopped to come back. That is and should always be called. The Giants - whom I do believe interfered- at least the defender was facing the QB and the throw and tried to get to the ball. Did he bear hug and interfere- I thought so, but it is less likely called as he was facing the play throughout. Of course he was also behind and therefore all action toward the ball was through the receiver- hence why I think interference should have been called, but I understand that no call more than the complainants by Dolphin fans on the McK play - as the defender never looked for the ball just interfered.

I totally agree - except even to start the year and through the last game - the Bills have been rotating the DB’s most of the season and then the after Tre came back - they still have been platooning the alternate CB. I agree in the past they used 100% for each CB, but Elam is built and plays well in more man situations, Dane and Rhodes are better tacklers and zone players. Therefore at the present time - what they have done in the past at DB is irrelevant because they had little Depth behind White and Wallace. This year they have Jackson, Beneford, Elam, and now Rhodes and White outside and they have been rotating the first 3 off and on all year while they were healthy. I think that is a fundamental change to the defensive approach to help keep teams from getting tendencies over and over within a game. You have seen this guy for a few snaps over 2 series - Bam now a different player is covering you while the first guy sits and studies. I think they are playing it very similar to the DL. Plus your original statement was: “Every Bills first round picks has started the majority, if not all, of their rookie year since McD has arrived. Except Elam” I totally agree that White, Allen, and Edmunds all started and played a majority at a time the team was growing. I also believe the 2019 and 2021 1st rounds picks do not fit your quote because the DLine rotates and the Bills had much more depth than early on. I get what you are saying and I just don’t think it has any reflection on Elam.

Many reasons to argue, but not sure this is really true. Rousseau last year did start every game per ProFootball Refence, but played only 49% of Defensive snaps. Ed Oliver in 2019 start 6 games and played 54% of the defensive snaps as a rookie. Elam is currently listed as starting 6 of 11 games and playing in 59% of the Bills defensive snaps on the season. As far as I can tell - Elam is right on pace with their last 2 first round picks in percentage of defensive snaps. Now with Tre back and giving 100% of the snaps on one side - I expect he will see a minor decrease, but it seems he is playing a lot more Man situations - especially against weaker running teams. I would expect versus Chicago- you will see more Jackson as their WRs are not burners and Chicago can run, but against Cincinnati- I would expect more Elam with that WR room. It seems to be all about matchups and I don’t think the Bills are doing anything different with him versus their recent #1 picks - get them around 50-60% of snaps and let them work in with the veterans.

So you were worried about a slip on a short FG, but would of been ok with the longer XP and a significantly more important kickoff. I just don’t know what to say.

Absolutely not. Why would you risk any more handoffs or risk getting tackled and not having time for the time out and most importantly- there is almost no chance unless you are a psychopath that the TD would be the last play - meaning in those same slick conditions that you don’t want to attempt a short FG - now they have to kick-off and kick a longer kick as an XP. The Bills did exactly what should be the standard and made the last play either we win or OT - no credible chance for Miami to control the ball and win. It was the sound decision and the correct decision and not only should be, but is the SOP for end of game calls and it was highlighted by the Jets beating the Browns earlier this year in a similar situation. Good teams learn and in this case the Bills have executed that exact situation to perfection twice this year.