oldmanfan

One of the things that should also be studied is the ongoing morbidity effect of the virus in younger individuals. While surviving will there be higher incidence of fibrotic lung disease for example. There is a suggestion that the incidence of clotting disorders in younger patients is higher and data on that should be gathered. Good question.

I’ll say this again, I would much rather see us all band together and help each other out by each wearing masks. Is that clear? What I also indicated is that if I were governor of my state and see that despite the social distancing people are not doing so, I would have to consider mandating it but that the legality of that would have to be addressed. Is that also clear?

My reading of how Sweden has its lower rates is that the population there has Ben very good at voluntarily practicing social distancing guidelines. Saw an interview with their Deputy Prime Minister to that effect. Again I’d live to see our communities do that. But they’re not. I agree. Clearly if you are in a high risk group you’d want to be more cautious.

I would argue that the social distancing policies that the public health authorities have recommended have been the most significant reason we have only 50k deaths vs. many more. I think the public health experts would tell you that.

With HIV it was fairly quickly determined the virus was predominantly in the gay population and the transmission by sexual contact or contaminated needles/blood. Coronavirus in comparison is spread more Asoka and in a much larger population.

The cloth masks are imperfect true. But my understanding is they would reduce aerosol transmission from you to another.

Dangerous to be sure and I don’t bring it up lightly. To me if we want our entire society to get back to normal (and again normal may look different for a while) we need arrangements that help get everyone back out there. If we all join hands and wear masks I think that would be a key step. I have patients desperate to start families I can’t see right now. I have a daughter whose senior year in high school is ruined and doesn’t know if she will be able to start college, an older daughter who is laid off and worried if her job will be there. We all have similar experiences. Is it too much to ask of us as a public to unite and do some things for now that we may not like that much but that would benefit society as a whole? I don’t like wearing a mask in public but it helps my neighbor.

I would much rather the public use our collective heads and help each other out. So let’s say you are an asymptomatic carrier (which you could be). You go out without a mask, transmit to someone. Say it’s a 79 year old who then dies. Or a 25 year old who develops a clotting disorder and loses a leg. Are you saying that your rights trample their health?

A mask helps you not transmit the virus, and helps you be safe from others transmitting the virus to you. I would rather our citizens use their head and help each other out, but in my rare forays out into public it is clear some folks don’t want to do so. So governors at some point in the interest of public health may have to make a difficult call to balance opening up our communities in a way that is safe. As I said above the legality of that would have to be addressed.

Wearing a mask for a while is not tyranny. Normalcy may look different for a while until we get treatments, vaccines, etc.

Again be careful with comparisons. With the flu there is a seasonality; we don’t know that for corona. And for the flu there are immunizations; it will be a while for that with coronavirus. Influenza is still an issue because some refuse to get immunized, and to be fair the virus varies in effectiveness year to year. All of these are still to be determined with coronavirus. If wearing masks in public helps get things back to some sense of normality why argue against it?

This will be part of going forward. I think if I were a governor I would look into mandating masks be worn by all in public, but legality would have to be determined. Here’s the deal, not just with a contagious disease like coronavirus but other non-contagious diseases. People know what they should do, it’s that they’re either too lazy, stubborn or dumb to do it. Diabetes and heart disease are rampant in our country. Why? Because people don’t do things like eat properly or exercise. Again the difference between that and the corona virus is they aren’t contagious. I was at Lowe’s yesterday morning. I would say only about half of the folks there had on masks. And about the same percentage were staying 6 feet from others. These are things that have been recommended and asked if the American public for weeks now, but too high a percentage aren’t doing it. That’s just dumb because you’re not protecting yourself, and selfish because you could spread your virus to others. As long as people are going to behave that way, the longer it will take to get things under control.

I think they emphasized spacing?

The comparisons to Covid and other causes of death like say heart disease is apples and oranges. Because heart disease is not contagious. The things put into play for the pandemic, the closures and social distancing, have dramatically decreased the predicted number of deaths and has flattened the curve. And things now will start to open up; the hospital network I work for will gradually start doing surgeries tomorrow. My guess is most states will gradually start reopening things, with distancing and masks mandated. We do need to start getting back to normal, but normal will be defined differently than it was a few months ago.

I do not approach science as a left or right thing. I watched that press conference, what the president said was irresponsible and potentially dangerous. He brought up injecting disinfectants. He brought up passing strong UV rays and such through the skin. The problem is that can be very harmful yet someone listening could try that because he heard his nation’s leader theorize about it. Rather than trying to artificially parse what he said or then try and claim sarcasm the next day he needs to get it through his head that his words and the precision of how he uses those words matter. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and own it. That is what is needed right now from all leaders if government.

Yes, using UV light to prevent exposure in spaces is logical and should be pursued. I’ve used UV lights in my lab for years to disinfect but as pointed out those applications are not compatible with having people in the room. Using UVC is a great idea. My previous comments were directed towards internal applications of UV light. While some have posted a couple companies thinking about that those applications have a long, long way to go to be considered. Again I serve on an FDA devices panel and the vast majority of such ideas do not get to approval. Not that they should not be considered but to point out the difficulties.

Thanks. I teach physiology and anatomy but I’m far from an expert in immunology. This helps.

Hope you’re right. There is some progress with convalescent serum from infected individuals but also some data on reinfection. So it’s kind of murky right now.

OP makes a good point. Data is needed on all fronts and then should be used to guide responsible decision making. That should be the role of each state health department which should then be collated by the CDC. Having good reliable numbers in not only medical but economic issues is critical. Accurate and more complete testing data is required right now both to determine the extent of the disease and through antibody testing knowing who has developed immunity. One of my fears is that the presence of antibodies may not equate to immunity, such as what is seen with HIV. If that is the case I’m concerned that could influence production of an effective vaccine.

No need to change. I know what I hear. I don’t need you to try and spin it. Thanks anyway.

You realize you are not the authority on what people hear and believe right? That’s key. Lab tests have to be validated for specificity and sensitivity, false positives/negatives.

I make my own judgments thanks.

Hope so too. Meet you in the football side tonight.

Well thank God you didn’t include the Cheatriots. I said people might interpret it that way. Keep spinning though.

Let’s try this one more time. I listened to everything said yesterday and formed my own opinion. Again, I LISTENED TO EVERY WORD. How exactly is that media spin. The person spinning is you.