oldmanfan

Rapaport is just throwing out guesses.

I think there is no truth to reporters getting paid or whatever to set up smokescreens for certain teams. And I am sick and tired of people using the”fake news” nonsense. Just because a reporter writes something you don’t like doesn’t make it fake.

No. And I am sick and tired of the fake news crap.

My understanding is they have one small company still in the business with about 20 employees including their daughter, who is a geologist.

Some folks don't want facts to obscure their opinions. I have no idea how the Pegula's finances are structured. No one here does. The two things I'd say is they are in businesses such as their sports teams, hotels. etc. that are really being hit hard right now. And second that putting up a PowerPoint to employees indicating your lifestyle is a priority (even though anyone with a functioning neuron in their skull would know that for any business owner ) is tone deaf.

I don’t see any evidence that Terry’s ego is what ails the Sabres. I see nothing to suggest that he’s a Danny Snyder type owner that’s meddling in things. He’s had GMs in Regier and Murray, and now possibly Botterill that didn’t work out and neither did the HCs they hired. If anything he gave some of these guys like Regier too long a time. Picking senior execs in sports is a tricky thing, especially the HC. The Maras were dumb till they picked Parcells, Ralph until Marc, Kraft until Belichick. Terry has to get it right, no question. He seems to have done so with the Bills but hasn’t yet with the Sabres. As as far as losing money with the Sabres, as you say it is an if that’s true thing. No denying he’s spent $$ on the product; how many times have people complained about bloated contracts to marginal players? He’s spent to get a farm system built with Cinci and Rochester feeding in, enhanced facilities and such. You say people at PSE are in over their heads? Maybe - who exactly? Kim? I think they should have a top business guy handling PSE but the last one they had in Brandon we all know what happened. Did that make them gun shy? Are there factions in the front office that are trying to fight against the owners? Yes Terry and Kim could be better at what they do but I’ve lived long enough to know there’s another side to the story that Graham wants to sell. And if we want to get into hidden agendas and conspiracies, maybe the two sources saying McD is concerned have their own anti McD agenda and are spreading things to try and force McD out.

Bingo

Agree with this

Yeah I’d agree that’s not a great way to put it. I think it’s an inherently understood thing; I’m sure Cowboys employees know Jerry wants to support Jerry’s lifestyle. But if it’s brought up during other cost cutting than poor form.

The people that should be overseeing the teams are the GM and HC. Whiffed on Ryan but then got it right. Hired guys with good resumes for the Sabres that didn’t live up to expectations. I don’t see any evidence he’s trampling on McD and if anything with the Sabres he gave guys more time than he should have.

Lamoriello has had mixed results. Recycling guys that have had success and failure isn’t necessarily any better than hiring a guy in his way up to see if he can take the next step. I understand some want a president of hockey hockey operations that a GM and HC report to, but to me that just adds another layer that may or may not help. Get a good GM who gets a good HC or vice versa, and you don’t need another layer. How many owners actually have extensive sports backgrounds though? Especially when first buying a team?

I think Kruger is a lot like McD and Beane. Process oriented. And no he's not a soccer coach, yes he has significant hockey experience, and yes you're just bringing up things you already know aren't correct just to be a smartaass.

It has been a bad run to be sure. But it will eventually turn around just like is happening with the Bills.

I'm not sure how heavily invested they are right now in oil and gas. They sold their company for the billions they now have, and from some of the discussion above they have a relatively small company with one of the daughters (a geologist) still in the industry. I don't think Terry necessarily sees the Sabres as a huge profit center, and given he's been a big hockey fan forever I suspect he's OK with some loss, but it would depend on the extent of the loss. If this viral crisis extends out a long time it's going to alter all professional sports in ways we can't really imagine as of right now. It would be interesting to get data on other NHL teams to see how bad off they are with the current crisis.

Experienced people are not necessarily the answer. I noted above guys like Bylsma and Babcock, both Stanley Cup winners who got canned. Just have to keep trying the best you can, talk to as many folks as you can and try to get the right guys.

i suspect you're right this off season. I'm wondering if they do with Kruger like they did with McD and let him have input on his GM. for that matter, I think if I were Terry I'd have McD and Beane sit down with Kruger and talk about philosophies, etc.

Botterill is an example of a guy that was highly thought of coming from a solid winning organization, who just has not measured up yet. As I said above, sometimes you just don't know until you give a guy the shot.

None of us know their balance sheets. I think he can and would stomach losses on the Sabres, but right now their businesses are being adversely affected by this crisis as are everyones. If you look historically at what they've done in terms of improving locker rooms, being willing to get rid of coaches that didn't work out and eat the cost, I think Terry is willing to put the money in.

Epic fail? Spiraling out of control? Calm down. It will turn around at some point. I think Kruger might have what it takes.

That was when they had Black running the operation, and that conflict has never been fully explained on either side of the equation.

You know, this kind of crap gets ridiculous. A few things first. One, I think Tim Graham is a very gifted writer. Some of the articles he's written, such as his one about Talley a few years ago, are just fantastic. But it is also clear from reading a lot of his stuff over the years, and from the reports people have posted over the years that have tried to tweet him or email him, that he is thin skinned and can have agendas that he tries to push, especially when i comes to Buffalo teams. This article it seems to me is one of those. Now, as to the Pegulas. Are they a "quality" ownership group? You might want to define what you mean by quality first. Have they made mistakes? Yes they have. Do all owner make mistakes? Yes they do. Let's separate the Bills and Sabres, starting with the Sabres. Terry has let his emotions perhaps overrun his brain sometimes, but they have hired guys who by all accounts should have succeeded. Murray had a good rep before taking the GM job, and turned into a disaster. Byslma - a former Stanley Cup winning coach who did not do well here. Botterill came out of a very successful organization, Houseley everyone thought was ready for his shot at a HC spot. And Housely didn't work and the ice is thin under Botterill. Sometimes you don't know whether a guy will succeed or not till they get put into the position, and the guys he's given a shot to haven't worked. And neither did the one guy with expereince in Bylsma. You can say bring an experienced guy in to right the ship, but how well did that work for the Leafs with Babcock? At this point the hope is that Kruger is the guy, but if he doesn't get it done than it might be time to look at whether it's the players on the roster that are more of the problem. Now as to Mc D and Beane. This crap about Terry being "lucky" to get them is just stupid and condescending. He made a bad choice with Ryan, absolutely. That one was on him; I hated it at the time and it never made sense to me. But people tend to forget here that the NFl has a committee that looks at potential up and comers for HC positions. Terry took some advice from that team I would guess, brought McD in to interview, liked him, and hired him. That is not luck, that is interviewing and hiring the right guy. Then he sat with McD and they decided to bring in Beane as GM. Again not luck, a considered hire that has worked out very well. This crap that they need to take the blame for bad decisions and just write off good decsions as luck is absurd. They get credit for good calls, get blame for bad calls. It should come as no surprise to anyone that has been watching things that the Pegulas would be in some financial straits as so many are right now. Their sports teams rely on revenues based on actually playing the games, and right now that isn't happening. And so some folks get laid off. They also sem to have some folks in the offices that have a different view of how the owners should run things. For me, I would listen to such employees, consider their input, decide if some changes are warranted, and then explain my choices. For all we know the Pegulas have done that. It seems like some of the employees that left over the past several years have done so for valid reasons, such as Brandon and the sexual harassment stuff. Again, no one here knows exactly what goes on in PSE, and from reading through this thread and others there are some former and current disgruntled employees and some that are complementary of the owners. For whatever reason it seems that Graham did not reach out to the latter group and only focused on the former. An agenda perhaps? If I were the Pegulas I personally would bring in a guy like they had in Brandon before he couldn't close his zipper, a guy who can run the business side of PSE. But I can also understand why they feel they may have gotten burned with that approach. I would extend both Beane and McD as they have shown they are quality guys. I would sit down with Kruger and ask him what he sees in the Sabres organization that needs to be fixed. right now is a particularly unsettled time, with no one knowing when games will start again, whether fans will be allowed to come to games, what the future for professional sports will look like down the road. To jump on right now and criticize their business decisions is kind of dumb to me.

I disagree.

They are in businesses that are particularly vulnerable to the current crisis. In addition it would seem there were some employees with agendas other than the owners'. Given both these it should not be surprising some folks got let go, furloughed, etc. nor should it be surprising that some of these are bitter about it and thus are negative about PSE. The Bills seem to be in very good shape under Beane and McD. The Sabres? One hopes Kruger will give them stability; Botterill may not be the right guy (shouldn't he have been making sure the uniform color requests got in on time and such?). They could probably use a guy that oversees PSE with more of a business background than Kim, but with what happened with Brandon they are probably gun shy about giving a guy too much power over the enterprise. Long term I think the ramifications are that the new stadium talks will be held up for a year or two, the Sabres are going to be dependent on Kruger (I can see him taking over for Botterill and bringing in his own coach), and neither team will be sold. Hockey is Terry's passion and he won't sell unless he has absolutely no financial choice, and then any new owner would keep them in Buffalo given what a great hockey city it is. The News article gives to me an objective analysis, the Graham article is unfortunately what I've seen from him before; he has a premise in his head about what he wants the story to be and then slants interviews and such to match his preconceived notion.

Part of losses on the Sabres has to be picking the.wrong executives and coaches with salaries held over. Part is the overall league finances to me just don’t seem to support multimillion dollar player contracts. The Pegulas have made it their mission to have a significant impact on WNY. Football, hockey, lacrosse, the construction they’ve done. So they’re pretty extended. Problem right now is the pandemic is killing off all the revenue so it’s logical they are in financial difficulty. If and when things get back to normal they’ll probably be OK. But if they ever felt they had to sell I am pretty confident the league would want a buyer that keeps them in Buffalo. The league knows Buffalo is one of the best hockey cities in the NHL.

Geologists are pretty smart people