oldmanfan

This is why the current studies either pro or con aren’t worth much. We don’t know anything about patient selection, adequate controls, etc., etc.

I’d like more info on this. It looks like it’s treating a localized infection vs. a systemic one. That’s not injection. That’s inhalation.

Apparently the president is now saying he was being sarcastic yesterday. Regardless of where one stands on the political spectrum, I think it can be agreed that during a pandemic what is needed from leaders is straight talk and not sarcasm. Say what you mean, mean what you say.

Let’s see how the trials go. If they can develop something that can actually inactivate viruses down to the alveolar level I would be happy to say congrats and that I was wrong. But I don’t think they’re damn close to a solution unless you can show me they have Phase 4 trials underway. Again I sit on an FDA Devices panel; it takes a lot to get something like this into actual clinical application.

No, and I am not going to continue this back and forth nonsense. Words matter. The president has the power of the pulpit of the most powerful man on the planet. It is on him to use his words precisely, it is not on you or me or the media or to try and figure out what he means every time he opens his mouth. I hear what he says, an assume he means what he says, and when what he says is stupid and irresponsible that's what it is. If you don't get that it 's because you don't want to for whatever reason. Well then, he needs to watch what he says. Which is the point I've been trying to make.

I watch what is actually said. That is what the FDA director actually said. I watched the president and heard exactly what he said. You have to try and twist his narrative into something. I don't.

Then he needs to be precise. He is the president for God's sake. He needs to realize his words matter.

How? Because the president, governors, etc. listened to the public health and infectious disease experts and got people to shelter in place and to use appropriate social distancing procedures, constant hand washing, masks, etc. Certainly you must realize the high estimates of 1-2 miliion were if no protective measures like that were used. I mean, you can't really be that disingenuous.

At the end of the CNN clip the FDA director agrees with the CNN medical correspondent that using disinfectants or UV light to treat a systemic infection would not work. The picture above seems to show a localized infection where UV light is used.

Clinical trials, assuming any reputable scientist would even consider these bizarre ideas, would take years and years. So why throw that out yesterday without proper context? All it does is give false hope to gullible people. Again, what is needed right now from the leaders of this country is factual and sober assessments of this situation, not pie if the sky stuff.

You've proved nothing. The president said something stupid yesterday. Why can't you just admit that?

I would say yes. The issue with using this to treat the Covid issue is that the viral effects cause pulmonary fibrosis from my reading, which in turn affects the alveoli, and from the diagram shown I see no way the UV light would penetrate into the alveoli to have an effect. I commend you for finding this, however.

Words matter. And I am not the one with an honesty problem here.

I can categorically state that if you started injecting disinfectants into people tomorrow, or started trying to pass UV lights into the lungs and shine them in there, you will kill people.

I do not think I indicated he said patients should drink bleach. What did he say to the government official. Quote: so it would be interesting to check that. Him talking to the guy that works for him. And the guy then said we have people we can talk to about it, or words to that effect. Your parsing stuff to try and defend this is laughable.

Go back and read my comments on this. About how it is based on years and years of basic and clinical investigation, how clinical trials are done to validate such approaches and how patients are informed of benefits and risks and such. And even then there are the rare occasions where issues come up that were not anticipated. To compare medical treatments that have gone through rigorous trials and investigations and scrutiny to throwing out half cocked ideas about injecting disinfectants, or sticking UV lights into the body is completely ridiculous.

He was instructing government officials to look into something that is completely ridiculous. You want your tax dollars used that way?

I would agree it's our job to hold our elected representatives responsible. It is the role of a free press to inform. I agree media should not twist things, regardless of political persuasion.

Again his words: “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute,” Trump said during Thursday’s coronavirus press briefing. “And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets inside the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.” So you are hanging your hat on the fact that he did not say the specific type of disinfectant? And you're saying he didn't imply anything, when he said right here is there a way to inject disinfectant? The words are right in front of you, yet to deny them. It was a dumb things to say. Although he is right on one thing: disinfectants would do a number on the lungs. They would cause all sorts of respiratory issues including potentially death, at least according to the CDC when talking about the one specific disinfectant: bleach. Science matters. Words matter.

The president referred to injecting disinfectants. When he said disinfectants, what exactly do you think he was referring to? Or because he did not specifically name a specific disinfectant it is somehow wrong to question the guy presenting the study about it? You do realize that two very common disinfectants are bleach and Lysol? And while we're at it, exactly how would one get UV light inside the body? These are things he said. Like it or not. And the press is supposed to not ask questions about it? Why can't you just admit that what was said by the president yesterday was dumb?

OK. These are your words regarding bleach, taken right from your post: Swallowing bleach certainly doesn't seem like the thing to do but there are other ways like you stated above, and even something as simple as possibly breathing it in. I know I've breathed in bleach just by using it for cleaning. I don't remember any side affects and there may very well be some benefits. I gave you the CDC guidelines on the effects of breathing in chlorine fumes. But it doesn't address your post in any way. Uh huh. Again, science matters. Science works.

Absolutely correct. The job of the media is to hold our representatives accountable for their words and action. I say that regardless of political affiliation as I am registered as an Independent. Good,

I have no idea where you're going with this. I look at this from the point of view as a scientists and clinician. If you want to throw around insults go somewhere else.

I feel the same. Which is why I say the comments yesterday were irresponsible.

It was both inarticulate and dumb. And then the media followed up. Because that is the media's job. Somebody had to make sure it was clarified that people should not construe those comments to mean that folks should go out and use disinfectants (bleach being an example).